topic Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24 in Credit Cards

Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 06:32:43 GMT

Hello everyone!

I'd like to ask the community for some advice. I know there are a lot of Chase related questions here on the forum but I can't seem to find a post that is specific to my own situation.

I am at 3/25, and am considering either the Chase FU or the Citi DC for the 'everything else' category. To me, the DC with 2% cashback sounds more appealing than the 1.5x of the FU. But everywhere I look, people are telling me to get the FU since I am already at 3/24.

Is the Freedom Unlimited actually worth more than the Double Cash? I don't travel that often, but I do maybe every few years so if I had to use the points for airline transfer, it wouldn't go to waste. I was also contemplating getting the CSP because of the SUB, but because I don't travel often, I would have to downgrade after the year since the returns are not very good for me. I already have the Savor that gets me 4% in dining, and I won't be able to use the travel category very often.

What would you guys do if you could make the choice for me?

1. Get the Double Cash + CSP (downgrade after SUB to Freedom)

2. Get the Freedom Unlimited + CSP (downgrade after SUB to Freedom)

3. Get the Double Cash + FU then get the CSP after 20 months when I will be below 5/24

Bonus question:

Can you upgrade a previously downgraded card? I want to get the CSP for the SUB, and use it if I have to travel, but I just can't justify keeping it long term. It would be awesome if I can just upgrade the FU or Freedom only when I need it to the CSP and downgrade again - is this possible? If not, are the UR points still good to use for travel if I don't have the CSP?

Thank you in advance. This forum has been one of the best I've been in!

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Revelate — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 07:05:09 GMT

Personal opinion: FU doesn’t make much sense without the CSR which you seem to have already ruled out.

1.5 x 1.25 < 2 on the DC, that goes twice for someone who is already using a cash-back strategy rather than points.

If you are SUB chasing sure, but regular use nah unless you are switching to points. Also I would note I don’t see any value in the CSP other than a SUB card, think virtually everyone spends enough in restaurants to justify the CSR as long as you do any of the half billion things that earn the travel credit.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:02:21 GMT

I just wanted to point out that currently the Chase Freedom Unlimited card is 3% cash back for the first year, for up to $20,000 in spending. Since this is a fairly new offer no one yet knows what will happen after the first year, but certainly 3% on up to $20,000 in spending must figure somehow in your analysis.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:59:39 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I just wanted to point out that currently the Chase Freedom Unlimited card is 3% cash back for the first year, for up to $20,000 in spending. Since this is a fairly new offer no one yet knows what will happen after the first year, but certainly 3% on up to $20,000 in spending must figure somehow in your analysis.

+1, after the first year you can always PC it and then get the Citi DC( or maybe PPMC CB).

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

NRB525 — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:55:38 GMT

Does your Savor have no-AF, or will it have the $95 AF?

The point Revelate makes, about being on a cash-back track, is important. A shift to “travel points” is, not so much significant, rather it is dilutive if you also try to do cash back. That’s because it takes a lot of transferable points to redeem for travel, whereas cash back you usually just earmark or transfer to a bank account.

What is your definition of travel? If it includes airlines, have you considered the AMEX Gold card? The $10 per month dining credit has some restrictions but I’ve been able to get mine through things like GrubHub pickup, and getting a piece of cheesecake from the factory. If you fly one airline the airline fee credit can be used for the bag fees and snacks on the plane. With the AF thus nearly gone, the 4 MR on dining and groceries ( at stores coding AMEX Groceries ) get you travel points. In spite of the various devaluation of airline miles, even using the points on Delta can get 1.2cpp as a floor value. And if it is to somewhere you really want to go, that can be satisfying to put the points to use.

The CFU + CSP eventually gets you a transferable set of points, but no benefit from the $95 AF. And if not much is spent in the “travel” category, then not much benefit of a PC to CSR after the first year CSP. The CSP bonus is valuable, the CFU earning 3 UR is interesting but you have not said what your annual CC spend rate is, whether you would get near the $20,000 spend to max the UR earnings.

Lots is of options to consider.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

kdm31091 — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:34:39 GMT

If you do not travel often, UR points are really nothing that special IMO. If you just use them for cash back, the FU becomes a 1.5% card which is easily beaten elsewhere. I'm also not convinced the Amex Gold would be a great option for you because if you don't travel much the points aren't going to be very valuable in most cases.

It really boils down to where you do want to travel, what airlines you prefer, etc. Most of the travel cards have various credits for frequent travelers but if you aren't going to utilize them it's just money down the drain with an AF.

There's plenty of options out there especially with being below 5/24, but don't overlook a simple cash back strategy either.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:19:06 GMT

OIf you’re already getting 4% on dining and don’t travel, the sapphires probably aren’t worth looking at. Their definition of travel is very broad, but it isn’t going to be worth it to use it only for Uber, parking lots, and trips.

As as far as upgrading->downgrading->upgrading, I’ve done it once, CSP->CSR->CSP->CSR. They didn’t mind, refunding my upgraded AF in full on the first downgrade. I even got to keep all accrued bonus points, travel credits, etc. I upgraded again a couple years later. I wouldnt push my luck trying it regularly. At some point, they’ll just keep your AF on the higher card. Also, no idea what would happen to points in your case. I always had a UR account attached to mine.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

SouthJamaica — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:58:53 GMT

@etatauri wrote:
Hello everyone!
I'd like to ask the community for some advice. I know there are a lot of Chase related questions here on the forum but I can't seem to find a post that is specific to my own situation.

I am at 3/25, and am considering either the Chase FU or the Citi DC for the 'everything else' category. To me, the DC with 2% cashback sounds more appealing than the 1.5x of the FU. But everywhere I look, people are telling me to get the FU since I am already at 3/24.

Is the Freedom Unlimited actually worth more than the Double Cash? I don't travel that often, but I do maybe every few years so if I had to use the points for airline transfer, it wouldn't go to waste. I was also contemplating getting the CSP because of the SUB, but because I don't travel often, I would have to downgrade after the year since the returns are not very good for me. I already have the Savor that gets me 4% in dining, and I won't be able to use the travel category very often.

What would you guys do if you could make the choice for me?
1. Get the Double Cash + CSP (downgrade after SUB to Freedom)
2. Get the Freedom Unlimited + CSP (downgrade after SUB to Freedom)
3. Get the Double Cash + FU then get the CSP after 20 months when I will be below 5/24

Bonus question:
Can you upgrade a previously downgraded card? I want to get the CSP for the SUB, and use it if I have to travel, but I just can't justify keeping it long term. It would be awesome if I can just upgrade the FU or Freedom only when I need it to the CSP and downgrade again - is this possible? If not, are the UR points still good to use for travel if I don't have the CSP?

Thank you in advance. This forum has been one of the best I've been in!

None of the above. I would just get the DC.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 15:05:52 GMT

If you have the spend to hit the Bonus on CSP it's worthwhile to pick up the free $.

Being at 3/24 puts more value on Chase since the door closes around 5/24 and the flexibility of Chase to change things up is limitless down the road.

I would snag the CFU @ 3% and the CSP for the free $ after the required spend and come back to DC after the first year when the CFU drops to 1.5%.

Citi won't garner you better results until after the first year w/ CFU.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:39:35 GMT

First, without CSR, cfu is much less appealing.

With CSR, depending on if the difference worth the AF. So how much are you planning to put on DC or cfu each year?

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:29:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I just wanted to point out that currently the Chase Freedom Unlimited card is 3% cash back for the first year, for up to $20,000 in spending. Since this is a fairly new offer no one yet knows what will happen after the first year, but certainly 3% on up to $20,000 in spending must figure somehow in your analysis.

Wow that is a great deal. I think I might get this until the promo rate runs out and get the DC. I may sit on the UR points until I see the need to travel, then get the CSP for the bonus and cash in on a trip.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:41:04 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
Does your Savor have no-AF, or will it have the $95 AF?

The point Revelate makes, about being on a cash-back track, is important. A shift to “travel points” is, not so much significant, rather it is dilutive if you also try to do cash back. That’s because it takes a lot of transferable points to redeem for travel, whereas cash back you usually just earmark or transfer to a bank account.

What is your definition of travel? If it includes airlines, have you considered the AMEX Gold card? The $10 per month dining credit has some restrictions but I’ve been able to get mine through things like GrubHub pickup, and getting a piece of cheesecake from the factory. If you fly one airline the airline fee credit can be used for the bag fees and snacks on the plane. With the AF thus nearly gone, the 4 MR on dining and groceries ( at stores coding AMEX Groceries ) get you travel points. In spite of the various devaluation of airline miles, even using the points on Delta can get 1.2cpp as a floor value. And if it is to somewhere you really want to go, that can be satisfying to put the points to use.

The CFU + CSP eventually gets you a transferable set of points, but no benefit from the $95 AF. And if not much is spent in the “travel” category, then not much benefit of a PC to CSR after the first year CSP. The CSP bonus is valuable, the CFU earning 3 UR is interesting but you have not said what your annual CC spend rate is, whether you would get near the $20,000 spend to max the UR earnings.

Lots is of options to consider.

I have considered the Amex Gold, but there is a lot of overlap with my current cards. I get 4% on my Savor for dining and entertainment, and 6% on groceries and 3% on gas and transit on my Amex BCF. Both have a 95 AF so I would have to downgrade both to the AF-free versions to justify the Gold. Personally I don't like the idea of a dining credit - I feel like it just makes you order something that you normally wouldn't get just to take advantage of your credits. I don't think the Gold is a bad card, and I love the look of the shiny metal, but I don't think it is a great match for me at the moment.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:43:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
OIf you’re already getting 4% on dining and don’t travel, the sapphires probably aren’t worth looking at. Their definition of travel is very broad, but it isn’t going to be worth it to use it only for Uber, parking lots, and trips.

As as far as upgrading->downgrading->upgrading, I’ve done it once, CSP->CSR->CSP->CSR. They didn’t mind, refunding my upgraded AF in full on the first downgrade. I even got to keep all accrued bonus points, travel credits, etc. I upgraded again a couple years later. I wouldnt push my luck trying it regularly. At some point, they’ll just keep your AF on the higher card. Also, no idea what would happen to points in your case. I always had a UR account attached to mine.

Thanks for the info! This may be of good intel in the future.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:47:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
If you have the spend to hit the Bonus on CSP it's worthwhile to pick up the free $.

Being at 3/24 puts more value on Chase since the door closes around 5/24 and the flexibility of Chase to change things up is limitless down the road.

I would snag the CFU @ 3% and the CSP for the free $ after the required spend and come back to DC after the first year when the CFU drops to 1.5%.

Citi won't garner you better results until after the first year w/ CFU.

Thank you sir, I think this is the winning strategy. I think I'll get the CFU, then the CSP. After a year I can downgrade the CSP to CF, and then get the DC.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

etatauri — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:51:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
First, without CSR, cfu is much less appealing.

With CSR, depending on if the difference worth the AF. So how much are you planning to put on DC or cfu each year?

I'd use if for anything that isn't gas/transit, groceries, amazon, dining, or entertainment. They are the bulk of my spending and that is why I have the cards optimized for.

I'd probably say I can put around 4-5000 each year on uncategorized spending.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

kdm31091 — Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:58:06 GMT

@etatauri wrote:
Personally I don't like the idea of a dining credit - I feel like it just makes you order something that you normally wouldn't get just to take advantage of your credits.

This exactly. I wonder how many people have started forcing spend at the dining merchants just to use the "free" credit. To me it's better to just not spend in the first place.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

zerofire — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 00:26:56 GMT

When you consider that the Chase Freedom Unlimited is 3% right now it makes sense to grab it as your next card. Doing so will get you under 5/24 as well as make Chase see the best version of your profile. This is important as Chase will do HP's for every CLi request and you want as high as possible a SL as you can get with them. Then I recommend that you reconsider the Citi Double Cash for the PayPal 2% Cashback card. This card has no FTF so you can use it on those rare vacations even if they are out of the country while giving you the same amount in rewards. Obviously you should get the PayPal card after a year has passed.

Now with the Freedom cards you cannot use them for travel unless you cash them out first or you have a Sapphire card. The good news though is that nobody said you had to have both cards opened at the same time. Since there is only one UR pot you can store the 3 points for the first year and then get the CSP in the next year after the CFU downgrades. There are very few cards that are an improvement that you can fill in later if you want like the [Gas]Ducks Unlimited(FNBO), [Pick a cat]US Bank Cash+, [Low cost buys]Citi Rewards+.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 18:58:45 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@etatauri wrote:
Personally I don't like the idea of a dining credit - I feel like it just makes you order something that you normally wouldn't get just to take advantage of your credits.
This exactly. I wonder how many people have started forcing spend at the dining merchants just to use the "free" credit. To me it's better to just not spend in the first place.

I eat out 2-3 times per week already, so it wouldn't force me to do so just to get the credit. I just wish that the credit was at places I actually eat. Not at locales 100 miles away or on the other side of the county. Only just recently has GrubHub added KFC and Pho Saigon, those are the only places locally there. But at least i was finally able to get the Dining credit since its inception on the Gold card. So now i think i can swing one visit to either place each month, which bring a $20 food bill down to $10. Not too bad. I also wish that you weren't limited to $10 a month, but could use it any way you like. And once the $120 credit was gone, your sol. By spreading it out they're probably hoping you'll forget to use it a couple times. lol

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:02:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I also wish that you weren't limited to $10 a month, but could use it any way you like. And once the $120 credit was gone, your sol. By spreading it out they're probably hoping you'll forget to use it a couple times. lol

Churners. It forces you to keep the card longer and hopefully pay an AF to cover it.

Re: Advice on Chase Strategy at 3/24

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jun 2019 19:52:58 GMT

@etatauri wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
Does your Savor have no-AF, or will it have the $95 AF?

The point Revelate makes, about being on a cash-back track, is important. A shift to “travel points” is, not so much significant, rather it is dilutive if you also try to do cash back. That’s because it takes a lot of transferable points to redeem for travel, whereas cash back you usually just earmark or transfer to a bank account.

What is your definition of travel? If it includes airlines, have you considered the AMEX Gold card? The $10 per month dining credit has some restrictions but I’ve been able to get mine through things like GrubHub pickup, and getting a piece of cheesecake from the factory. If you fly one airline the airline fee credit can be used for the bag fees and snacks on the plane. With the AF thus nearly gone, the 4 MR on dining and groceries ( at stores coding AMEX Groceries ) get you travel points. In spite of the various devaluation of airline miles, even using the points on Delta can get 1.2cpp as a floor value. And if it is to somewhere you really want to go, that can be satisfying to put the points to use.

The CFU + CSP eventually gets you a transferable set of points, but no benefit from the $95 AF. And if not much is spent in the “travel” category, then not much benefit of a PC to CSR after the first year CSP. The CSP bonus is valuable, the CFU earning 3 UR is interesting but you have not said what your annual CC spend rate is, whether you would get near the $20,000 spend to max the UR earnings.

Lots is of options to consider.
I have considered the Amex Gold, but there is a lot of overlap with my current cards. I get 4% on my Savor for dining and entertainment, and 6% on groceries and 3% on gas and transit on my Amex BCF. Both have a 95 AF so I would have to downgrade both to the AF-free versions to justify the Gold. Personally I don't like the idea of a dining credit - I feel like it just makes you order something that you normally wouldn't get just to take advantage of your credits. I don't think the Gold is a bad card, and I love the look of the shiny metal, but I don't think it is a great match for me at the moment.

You’re right on the dining credit. It’s not something I would weigh heavily when I got that card unless you go to one of their ~6 partner restaurants at least once a month already. Ordering $25 worth of grub hub to get a $10 credit doesn’t make much sense when you would have otherwise gotten a $7 sandwich.

The gold card is a solid all rounder for someone who only wants to carry one card in their wallet, but if you’re willing to shuffle, you can do better for less, which you already are.