topic Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points in Credit Cards

Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:01:24 GMT

per DOC https://www.doctorofcredit.com/american-express-adds-terms-to-ban-gift-cards-from-earning-points/

Not just for meeting spending requirement. Literally no points for BBP GC purchase anytime. The trend is this may spread to all cards.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

redpat — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:30:11 GMT

This is towards the Simon Mall GC and Amazon large purchases of GC. Simply going to the grocery story and buying a GC here there may not apply. Amex is stopping the $500 and larger GC purchases for meeting SUB and MS.

Most have nothing to worry about here.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Peteyglad — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:42:36 GMT

I was at a local mall and the main customer service desk was selling $100 Nike giftcards for $80. My wife was planning on spending roughly $200 at Nike so I bought 2. t the counter the lady asked me if I wanted just the 2 and proceeded to tell me that the pervious person bought $20,000 worth!

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:54:26 GMT

I would be careful of any store that send L3 data to amex ID'ing transaction as GC. and better mix GC purchase with other items.

Who know what RAT will think a few months, years down the road. They are clawing back hundreds of thousands of MR from people, whose action, while looks abusive, didn't violate rules.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

kdm31091 — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:00:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I would be careful of any store that send L3 data to amex ID'ing transaction as GC. and better mix GC purchase with other items.

Who know what RAT will think a few months, years down the road. They are clawing back hundreds of thousands of MR from people, whose action, while looks abusive, didn't violate rules.

Well that's exactly why these crackdowns are happening. To avoid any gray area and make it clear you are not entitled to rewards from GC purchases. Don't have to like it, but it's not exactly surprising, especially given a recent article that Amex is spending a lot on rewards right now. They don't want to give rewards on GC purchases.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:25:52 GMT

There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

M_Smart007 — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:45:51 GMT

@Peteyglad wrote:
I was at a local mall and the main customer service desk was selling $100 Nike giftcards for $80. My wife was planning on spending roughly $200 at Nike so I bought 2. t the counter the lady asked me if I wanted just the 2 and proceeded to tell me that the pervious person bought $20,000 worth!

i just hope the $20,000 worth, was not on a Chase Card

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:08:15 GMT

@Peteyglad wrote:
The counter the lady asked me if I wanted just the 2 and proceeded to tell me that the pervious person bought $20,000 worth!

Um, how is that possible when the limit is $2,000 per Person per day? At least at several mercants that i know of.

I hope she still had a job after.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

KJinNC — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:55:26 GMT

Hmm. I just bought a $50 Lowe's gift card from Staples to cash in on an Amex Offer of spend $40 at Staples, get $10 back. Which also stacks with an extra MR point per dollar spent at Staples offer. Will be interesting to see if I get the $10 and the points for that one.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Shadowfactor — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:43:26 GMT

I purchased $1000 worth of MCGC from staples a couple days ago. The purchases are showing as pending under the Rewards section and it shows in getting points for them.

Hopefully that sticks.

This is why I have other MS avenues as MS is dying a slow death

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:52:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.

It depends! In one of the Citi shutdowns (on the 5x TYP) someone was caught in the net because they had bought I think 2 $50 Amazon cards as graduation gifts. Citi's equivalent of the RAT teams response was that they WERE gift cards, so......

Once you have a get-up-and-shut-the-cheaters-down team going, nuances tend to go away!

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 22:57:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.
It depends! In one of the Citi shutdowns (on the 5x TYP) someone was caught in the net because they had bought I think 2 $50 Amazon cards as graduation gifts. Citi's equivalent of the RAT teams response was that they WERE gift cards, so......

Once you have a get-up-and-shut-the-cheaters-down team going, nuances tend to go away!

Did Citi have it widely known that gift cards aren't allowed? Like in their terms like US Bank and the Altitude Reserve? Because I have no sympathy for people who don't read the terms and conditions on their account but I have heard that Citi can be pretty awful at times so if they didn't actually have the policy spelled out and then shut down someone for buying 2 gift cards, that's a different matter altogether.

My opinion is that if the credit card company isn't going to let you use the card normally (I bought a gift card for my roommate today for his birthday without giving a second thought about it), maybe you're better off taking your business elsewhere anyway. I understand cash equivalents like V/MC/AMEX cards but an Amazon or some other place is over the top.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:21:28 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.
It depends! In one of the Citi shutdowns (on the 5x TYP) someone was caught in the net because they had bought I think 2 $50 Amazon cards as graduation gifts. Citi's equivalent of the RAT teams response was that they WERE gift cards, so......

Once you have a get-up-and-shut-the-cheaters-down team going, nuances tend to go away!
Did Citi have it widely known that gift cards aren't allowed? Like in their terms like US Bank and the Altitude Reserve? Because I have no sympathy for people who don't read the terms and conditions on their account but I have heard that Citi can be pretty awful at times so if they didn't actually have the policy spelled out and then shut down someone for buying 2 gift cards, that's a different matter altogether.

My opinion is that if the credit card company isn't going to let you use the card normally (I bought a gift card for my roommate today for his birthday without giving a second thought about it), maybe you're better off taking your business elsewhere anyway. I understand cash equivalents like V/MC/AMEX cards but an Amazon or some other place is over the top.

The claim was that this is all covered by the various abuse wordings which probably did include cash equivalents. But note your last sentence: if you are not into credit cards sites, and looking for a graduation present: "Um, I don't know if X uses Amazon or Target. I'll just get a Visa card so they can buy what they need". To the uninformed, not different at all....

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:27:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.
It depends! In one of the Citi shutdowns (on the 5x TYP) someone was caught in the net because they had bought I think 2 $50 Amazon cards as graduation gifts. Citi's equivalent of the RAT teams response was that they WERE gift cards, so......

Once you have a get-up-and-shut-the-cheaters-down team going, nuances tend to go away!
Did Citi have it widely known that gift cards aren't allowed? Like in their terms like US Bank and the Altitude Reserve? Because I have no sympathy for people who don't read the terms and conditions on their account but I have heard that Citi can be pretty awful at times so if they didn't actually have the policy spelled out and then shut down someone for buying 2 gift cards, that's a different matter altogether.

My opinion is that if the credit card company isn't going to let you use the card normally (I bought a gift card for my roommate today for his birthday without giving a second thought about it), maybe you're better off taking your business elsewhere anyway. I understand cash equivalents like V/MC/AMEX cards but an Amazon or some other place is over the top.
The claim was that this is all covered by the various abuse wordings which probably did include cash equivalents. But note your last sentence: if you are not into credit cards sites, and looking for a graduation present: "Um, I don't know if X uses Amazon or Target. I'll just get a Visa card so they can buy what they need". To the uninformed, not different at all....

I get that. I actually like my Navy Federal card because they encourage me buying gift cards (Raise.com bonus cash back). I am just saying that I understand why the banks come down on cash equivalent purchases. It's a case of a few ruining it for everyone else but they have to draw the line somewhere. It should be common sense that any same as cash transactions would be discouraged by credit card companies -- there's a reason they have a cash advance option and a reason they tend to have a high APR for them too. If they really want to stop this behavior, V, MC, and AMEX need to tell the stores selling their gift cards that they have to be purchased with cash or debit. Full stop.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Loquat — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:12:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.
It depends! In one of the Citi shutdowns (on the 5x TYP) someone was caught in the net because they had bought I think 2 $50 Amazon cards as graduation gifts. Citi's equivalent of the RAT teams response was that they WERE gift cards, so......

Once you have a get-up-and-shut-the-cheaters-down team going, nuances tend to go away!
Did Citi have it widely known that gift cards aren't allowed? Like in their terms like US Bank and the Altitude Reserve? Because I have no sympathy for people who don't read the terms and conditions on their account but I have heard that Citi can be pretty awful at times so if they didn't actually have the policy spelled out and then shut down someone for buying 2 gift cards, that's a different matter altogether.

My opinion is that if the credit card company isn't going to let you use the card normally (I bought a gift card for my roommate today for his birthday without giving a second thought about it), maybe you're better off taking your business elsewhere anyway. I understand cash equivalents like V/MC/AMEX cards but an Amazon or some other place is over the top.
The claim was that this is all covered by the various abuse wordings which probably did include cash equivalents. But note your last sentence: if you are not into credit cards sites, and looking for a graduation present: "Um, I don't know if X uses Amazon or Target. I'll just get a Visa card so they can buy what they need". To the uninformed, not different at all....
I get that. I actually like my Navy Federal card because they encourage me buying gift cards (Raise.com bonus cash back). I am just saying that I understand why the banks come down on cash equivalent purchases. It's a case of a few ruining it for everyone else but they have to draw the line somewhere. It should be common sense that any same as cash transactions would be discouraged by credit card companies -- there's a reason they have a cash advance option and a reason they tend to have a high APR for them too. If they really want to stop this behavior, V, MC, and AMEX need to tell the stores selling their gift cards that they have to be purchased with cash or debit. Full stop.

+1 . @Anonymous Yep...nailed it...right there. I'm not for the abusive practices but I'm also not one for a company creating the rules and then cry when others find a way to win inspite of them. Consumption leads the way in this country and they know it. They should have planned for folks to push the limits because that's exactly what we do and history is on our side to prove it. Be it right or wrong...just like the speed limit on the highway, most look at it as a suggestion rather than an actual limit...at least until the lights (or in this case the credit card company) gets behind us.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:27:28 GMT

@Loquat wrote:
If they really want to stop this behavior, V, MC, and AMEX need to tell the stores selling their gift cards that they have to be purchased with cash or debit. Full stop.
+1 . @Anonymous Yep...nailed it...right there. I'm not for the abusive practices but I'm also not one for a company creating the rules and then cry when others find a way to win inspite of them. Consumption leads the way in this country and they know it. They should have planned for folks to push the limits because that's exactly what we do and history is on our side to prove it. Be it right or wrong...just like the speed limit on the highway, most look at it as a suggestion rather than an actual limit...at least until the lights (or in this case the credit card company) gets behind us.

It's the issuing banks that pay the rewards and the selling merchant that pays the swipe fee, whereas the gift card issuers (e.g. Metabank) want you to buy the cards and if allowing cc purchase sells more, that's great!

It's the credit card banks that pay the price, so that's why they toughen up the T&Cs and employ RAT teams. But they can't make the rules for the stores. Stores might impose restrictions to prevent losses on their end due to stolen cards etc.

As an aside, on some MS forums, there was a claim that V/MC conditions basically state that if a retailer accepts say V, then anything purchased in the store can be paid that way so exceptions really aren;t allowed. Not sure quite how true that is. And anyway enforcement would be hard!

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

JamP — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:35:55 GMT

Agreed. I would use some discretion.

I was buying some ebay giftcards from Meijer when I went shopping, I think that should be ok, but 20k in giftcards that's amazing.

Someone must have a hookup on where to sell them back for cash or that's alot of Nike apparel.

No wonder they want to stop it.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Loquat — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:38:43 GMT

Another thing I find interesting is that a lot of these lenders issue Business cards. While I'm sure a good amount of the purchase are for the business...many companies offer rewards and kudos to their employees via gift cards...especially during the holiday. I would love to hear their rationale behind that one. Although I'm sure that someone would say well there's an exception...and the problem with exceptions is where do you draw the line? This is all so silly.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

iced — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 01:31:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There’s a big difference between someone making a normal shopping trip for groceries and picking up a $25 or $50 gift card for Amazon or Best Buy for a birthday present for someone else and someone buying a pack of gum and a $500 gift card. I highly doubt they’re scrutinizing the first transaction but I don’t blame them for the second.

One's more blatant than the other, but in the end both are technically allowing someone to buy something that counts as a category for which it wasn't intended. If restaurants were selling gift cards to grocery stores or gas stations, I'm sure Chase would be none to happy to find out people are getting 3x UR for gas/grocery, whether it's $10 at a time or $500. Like many things in this world, when they assume good intentions and allow it to happen, it's not long before a few people abuse that good intention to the point it's ruined for everyone.

A (complex) technological fix to this in the future could be that GCs code as their destination and not their source. That requires a lot of ifs to happen to get that data into AmEx's hands, but it could also nip this.

Re: Amex new Terms: Ban Gift Cards From Earning ANY Points

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 01:48:09 GMT

I can understand both sides, unfortunately there's no easy way to police it. Either you crackdown on everyone, or target specific people. Which would be wrong, right? I don't go around buying $500 worth of GC's to meet SUBs, I generall only buy $25, $50 and $100 as gifts to Family. Albeit not daily or weekly. And I happen to use whatever CC i'm using while shopping at the time. One CC has offers that give me an extra 2X points on certain GC purchases.

Also if they have issues with you buying GC with a CC, why does Amex offer discounts for purchasing their Amex GCs via their site? Surely you're gonna use your Amex CC for it. It just doesn't count towards spend, nor does it earn base points. No biggie.

Are they going to subtract only the GC amount form this purchase, or the whole charge? Because I'd be a bit upset if a $25 GC causes me not to earn my 4X points on my remaining bill at the grocery store. Are they going to scrutinize every account in fine detail just to catch all this?