topic Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review in Credit Cards

Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 02:21:04 GMT

Hello,

First off, I am a non-resident alien and applied 08/01/2019 and got approved at the same date for the Bluecash Everyday and The Platinum Card cards from American Express, just using my credit score built with my Bank of America credit card and my foreign passport number (I don't have Social Security Number).

Because of the welcome bonus, I concentrated all my expenses on my The Platinum Card credit card.

In the first month I had no expense and the bill only closed at $ 550. The second bill, however, I started using the card daily for my expenses, but when I reached about $ 4000 in spending, my account was submitted to the Financial Review.

I got a call from American Express and couldn't answer it. Then I verified that my account was charging suspended. I called the number indicated at my account and spoke to the analyst in charge of my account. After reporting my professional and income data (about $ 80,000 annually), she requested me a Tax Form issued by US. I said that I would not have such a document, but only Brazilian tax documents, as I declare my income in Brazil and receive my salary in Brazil. As I told before, I am a non-resident alien and I applied and got approved as a non-resident alien, just by giving them my foreign passport number, where they checked my credit history (Fico Score).
Then she told me she could do nothing and that in 14 days she would close my account.
Does anyone of you have any ideas that might help me?
I have a bank of america account, bank of america credit card, brazilian Amex TPC (which expenses are a lot higher than what I spent on US American Express).
I want to call the analyst and explain the situation again to see if I can reverse the situation. Otherwise, I will lose my account and cards.

I am also prohibited by US Laws from filing a US Tax Form (obviously).
Any idea?

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 11:45:50 GMT

Under what status are you in the US? Even illegal aliens can get an ITIN (although most don't want too) so I would suggest that you obtain one anyway.

As to Amex wanting to check your income, if you can't do it and/or they won't accept your foreign tax filings you are really out of luck and they'll close your account as they have already said.

Ultimatly it's their card, and their money, so if you can't do what they want you have little recourse.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:40:01 GMT

I dont work in the US and neither live there. So, theres no reason to get an ITIN.
About checking my income, theres no problems about that... what happens is that I dont have US tax documents, because I dont live and/or work in the US, and Amex knew that when I requested and approved my credit card.
When I requested, I had to give them my foreign passport number, because I hadn’t SSN. There, they told me that was no problem being a non-resident allien.
Thats the reason I am asking if anybody knows what can be done in my case. Surely theres a way to prove my income without the US Tax documents, as I am a non-resident and Amex US certainly knows that.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Shadowfactor — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:59:09 GMT

Welcome to the forums.

Why do you have a US issued platinum card if you don’t reside in or work in the United States or work for a US based company ?
Personally I think that may be the issue even if they aren’t saying that, but I don’t work for American Express so this is just my personal opinion.

American Express has its global transfer program, so you may see if that angle is worth considering if you have American Express accounts in your own country. The program was designed to transfer your card accounts to another country if you move but it doesn’t sound like you are moving to the US so it may not be an option.

Ultimately Amex makes the rules during a FR. If you can’t or won’t provide the documents they are requesting they will just close the account and you will likely end up on a blacklist. Any further accounts you ever try to open with Amex will be met with some sort of income verification (most likely).
You can ask if they will accept bank statements instead of tax documents but I would assume if they did accept bank statements it would need to be an account with a US financial institution.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

CreditInspired — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 13:37:53 GMT

Hi OP and welcome

IMHO, you may be out of luck if you can’t/don’t provide docs for a FR. Even, if you were a US citizen with a SS#, the same thing could/would be asked of a card holder who has had a card only 2 months and spent $4.5K. AmX doesn’t know your spend/payment pattern and needs to make sure you really have stated income you put on application and you have the income to pay. Even when you pay, they don’t know if it’s income or laundered money since you can’t provide documents proving one way or the other.

Look at it this way. Having credit is a privilege and it’s their sandbox. We have to play by their rules or they take their pail and shovel home (in this case, they shut you down). Think about it. Suppose something happens and you can’t pay your bill. It could cost AmX more to recover their money than what you charged on the card since you don’t earn a salary in the US.

It’s all about AmX risk—nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:29:05 GMT

Thanks @Shadowfactor.

I applied for the US Amex because I travel a lot to the US and, especially, because when I use my Brazilian cards there are a lot of fees that apply to my purchases outside Brazil. So, it's cheaper to use an US card, as I do use for months my BofA credit card.

American Express global transfer does not apply for Brazil, unfortunately.

I understand that Amex US makes the rules of the game, but as they know since I applied and were approved for the credit card, I am a non-resident alien and do not file US taxes. So it doesn't seem logical to me that they now require a Tax Form issued by the US.

About the Black List, what happens if I close by myself the account? That may be my last option here, I really don't want to be blacklisted, since I did not wrong and seems so unfair to me.

I could give them my bank statements issued by Bank of America, I maintain a checking and saving accounts there since July 2018. I send around $ 2.000 monthly from Brazil to that accounts. May this be an option for me?

@CreditInspired Thanks!

I understand and accept FR, that's not the case. I am not lying and have not provided false information to AMEX US from the beginning.

AmX may know my spend/payment pattern because I have credit history built with Bank of America and, also, they could check my statements help by Bank of America (checking and saving accounts maintaned since July/2018).

I understand about concerns about money laundering or illicit activity, so I am willing to provide any documents requested by them. What I cannot do is provide documents that do not exist or would be illegal since I am not a US resident and do not file US taxes.

I really want to play by their rules, I'm not willing to do anything illegal or irregular, that's why I am looking for a solution there. I could submit all my documentos to US Embassy in Brazil if they wanted, but it seems the analyst is adamant about it.

Can I escalate the case to someone superior? They didn't provided me even an e-mail to send documentos or anything else, all options I have is talk and arguing by telephone.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:53:06 GMT

I don't think you'll be blacklisted, you'll just have to jump through hoops when you apply.

I'm wondering, what did you enter as income? You stated you entered based on your local currency. That may have been what triggered it. $50k USD converts to $12,150 real, currently. If you reported real and they have it down as USD in their system, that could raise flags as it would look like you're spending more than you can afford.

EDIT: just realized I had the conversion backwards

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:48:32 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner

In relation to the registered income, I entered my income in Brazilian Real converted to United States Dollar. I get around R$ 350,000 annually (brazilian real), which would be converted to around $ 80,000 - $ 90,000 annually in US Dollar.

When I applied for the cards, I inserted an annual income of $ 80.000 (eighty thousand us dollars). It's the actual amount I get in brazilian reais when converted to US dollars. These values are what are in my Brazilian Tax Form.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

FinStar — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:51:19 GMT

AFAIK, they may not accept bank statements, unfortunately. Unless, they have such discretion handling your specific FR, but it's likely on a case-by-case basis. Escalating the issue further up the ladder is not going to make an exception to circumvent the process either.

And, as mentioned upthread, it may appear that AmEx would close the account unless you comply with the required information or you voluntarily close the account. But, since your income is not US-based and they require the 4506-T, then there's really not much of a workaround.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

frugal47374 — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:11:10 GMT

I suppose it's too much to hope there is another non-resident alien with Amex who could chime in with their experience

The OP has played by the rules, hasn't misled Amex, is willing to provide proof of income, but is unable to provide the specific documents requested because he doesn't have them.

I don't think there is any harm in escalating this at Amex. So far it seems he's only dealt with someone who can't think beyond "we need to see US tax documents". Since they gave him the card knowing he wasn't a US resident, it seems that someone up the chain knows what is really required.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:34:41 GMT

@FinStar

Sadly they can't accept bank statements... that may be my only US-issued document to prove my income.

Yes, my account manager told me that they would close the account if I don't give them the 4506-T Form. Would it be "better" that I close the account by myself or let Amex close my account? Or nothing will change regardless what I do?

@frugal47374

You got exactly my point.

If there's another non-resident alien that passed what I'm going through could help me find some solution with American Express...

Indeed. I played their rules and didn't lie a single point to them, could prove anything they wanted if they really remember that I am a non-resident alien (by being a NRA, I am prohibited by US Laws to fill an US Tax form! How could Amex US demand me the 4506-T?!)

Do you know how could I escalate this at Amex? I didn't see much goodwill from the account manager...

To reiterate: you got exactly my point here.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

K-in-Boston — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:53:53 GMT

@wowzera wrote:

First off, I am a non-resident alien and applied 08/01/2019 and got approved at the same date for the Bluecash Everyday and The Platinum Card cards from American Express, just using my credit score built with my Bank of America credit card and my foreign passport number (I don't have Social Security Number).
...
After reporting my professional and income data (about $ 80,000 annually), she requested me a Tax Form issued by US. I said that I would not have such a document, but only Brazilian tax documents, as I declare my income in Brazil and receive my salary in Brazil. As I told before, I am a non-resident alien and I applied and got approved as a non-resident alien, just by giving them my foreign passport number, where they checked my credit history (Fico Score).
...
I am also prohibited by US Laws from filing a US Tax Form (obviously).
...
I dont work in the US and neither live there. So, theres no reason to get an ITIN.
About checking my income, theres no problems about that... what happens is that I dont have US tax documents, because I dont live and/or work in the US, and Amex knew that when I requested and approved my credit card.

I cut out the parts that aren't relevant because a very important distinction needs to me made and is going to be the issue here. You are not a non-resident alien, you are a full-time resident and citizen of Brazil, which is quite different. A non-resident alien resides in the United States, but is neither a citizen nor a permanent resident. That would be someone who is in the process of obtaining a permanent resident card, somewhere in the naturalization process, or is here on a visa, such as a student or work visa, and non-resident aliens are required to file tax returns for any income earned while residing in the US.

In your case, you would not be eligible for a card as a non-resident alien as you do not reside in the United States. There is not going to be any way around the FR as you are essentially a tourist. You stated in a later post: "When I requested, I had to give them my foreign passport number, because I hadn’t SSN. There, they told me that was no problem being a non-resident allien." What they told you is correct, but again the issue here is that you are not a non-resident alien, you are just a non-resident. It is likely that there was a misunderstanding regarding your status, which resulted in your approval.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

FinStar — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:57:46 GMT

@frugal47374 wrote:
I suppose it's too much to hope there is another non-resident alien with Amex who could chime in with their experience

The OP has played by the rules, hasn't misled Amex, is willing to provide proof of income, but is unable to provide the specific documents requested because he doesn't have them.

I don't think there is any harm in escalating this at Amex. So far it seems he's only dealt with someone who can't think beyond "we need to see US tax documents". Since they gave him the card knowing he wasn't a US resident, it seems that someone up the chain knows what is really required.

Clearly none other than the OP filled out the application. So, it is up to AmEx to decide the outcome. That said, the application has the following T&C link right below the the Apply button which provides the following legal disclosure [excerpt]: By submitting this application, you are requesting us to open an Account in your name and to issue Card(s) as you direct. Only qualified individuals 18 or over may apply for an Account. This offer is available to US Residents.

Now, the OP stated the following in post #3 above. So, I would think it would behoove an applicant to inquire with AmEx prior to submitting an application to ensure that no issues would arise as a result of offshore residency, income or if the Global Transfer piece can apply depending on the country of residence.

@wowzera wrote:
I dont work in the US and neither live there. So, theres no reason to get an ITIN.

So, on the surface the intent wasn't really nefarious per se, but obviously AmEx's algorithms flagged the account due to a disconnect in the information provided.

ETA - @K-in-Boston provided more clarity on that piece

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

K-in-Boston — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:02:16 GMT

Yes, again I think the issue here is the understanding of the term "non-resident alien." It does not mean "non-resident," meaning someone who doesn't reside in the US. It means an alien residing in the US who does not have the legal status of Permanent Resident, or as defined by the IRS:

An alien is any individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national. A nonresident alien is an alien who has not passed the green card test or the substantial presence test.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:32:14 GMT

@K-in-Boston

Thanks for your reply.

In the United States, "alien" is the term used within the immigration laws to refer to a citizen of another country. However, the terms "resident alien" and "non-resident alien" are actually terms from the federal tax laws. Resident aliens owe tax on all their income, while, as you have told, non-resident aliens owe tax only on income generated from U.S. sources.

As I have told before, I don't have any income generated from US sources, so there's no kinda of Tax Form I'm allowed to fill and, because of that, I can't give AMEX any US Tax Forms.

About being elegible for the card, I really don't know if I was approved by mistake, since I know other people in the same situation as me who have kept american express cards for years without any problems.
Also, my checking and saving accounts at Bank of America, as well as my credit card issued by Bank of America, were recorded with my current situation.
Also, in my Amex and BofA accounts, my primary address is is set to my brazilian address.

Now, the OP stated the following in post #3 above.   So, I would think it would behoove an applicant to inquire with AmEx prior to submitting an application to ensure that no issues would arise as a result of offshore residency, income or if the Global Transfer piece can apply depending on the country of residence.

That's exactly what I did. When I initially applied, because I didn't have an SSN, my application was rejected and I had to call an American Express phone number. The analyst who attended me was informed of my situation and even registered my Brazilian address as primary in my account. He also suggested that I could send my cards to my Brazilian address (which I refused, as it would take longer to arrive). I just informed everything I was asked...

So, on the surface the intent wasn't really nefarious per se, but obviously AmEx's algorithms flagged the account due to a disconnect in the information provided.

Actually, the analyst told me that the expenses flagged the account.

When I applied for my card, I was informed that I could spend the $ 5,000 to reach the welcome bonus amount. As the offer to transfer points to Avios is in effect (40%), I wanted to be able to reach the value on this month's bill. I never thought I could have problems with that.
I should have researched about financial review before. But I never imagined that it would happen (or even exist). My fault.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:37:25 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Yes, again I think the issue here is the understanding of the term "non-resident alien." It does not mean "non-resident," meaning someone who doesn't reside in the US. It means an alien residing in the US who does not have the legal status of Permanent Resident, or as defined by the IRS:

An alien is any individual who is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. national. A nonresident alien is an alien who has not passed the green card test or the substantial presence test.

Yes, this. I obtained my first US credit card as a non-resident alien, I was living and working here on an H1 visa, and if I hadn't started fairly early in the year, I would have had to file as a non-resident alien. (The IRS has different standards for determining resident alien for tax purposes, either green card or something like being here 185 days in the tax year in question)

So Amex granted the card on the understanding the applicant was an NRA, and now the card will be closed because of the FR. (If that hadn't happened, I assume things could have carried on!) I don't blame the OP in that it wasn't a deliberate deception, just a misunderstanding of the NRA term.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:38:38 GMT

I tried to contact the analyst again today, but I was informed that she is not in the office and only returns on Sunday ... I will try to explain the whole situation again to her.
Some friends told me that their account were submited to financial review and US Amex required a document issued by the US Embassy in Brazil to prove "proof of identity"... I will try argue about that.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:27:46 GMT

I believe the people who process applications and those who conduct financial reviews are in different departments, and they can have different definitions and considerations about what can be used as proof of income.

The fact that other people like you have successfully kept their accounts open doesn't necessarily mean they are risk-free. They may have not been able to trigger a financial review, in which case may be asked for same type of US tax documents and lead to account closure if they can't provide any.

If you visit the US on B1/B2 status, the banks may not always deny you from a bank account and credit card (as there is no express policy about not allowing B1/B2 visitors to open accounts despite the implications of such status), but you should have a US address. They probably opened the accounts for you since you provided them one.

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

Shadowfactor — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:31:01 GMT

I agree with what K-In-Boston stated.

Usually you need to be a resident and/or citizen to obtain a credit card in that country. I have dual citizenship and I still had a hell of a time getting a CC in my other nationality even though I reside there 6-8 months a year currently.

Why can’t you provide the 4506-T form. Fill it out as best and honestly as you can and send it to Amex. That might be all they want. To verify that you aren’t a US citizen or file US taxes. I doubt that’s the case but as long as you don’t lie when filling out the form I don’t see the harm in attempting to fill it out.

I think someone approved you when they shouldn’t have and it’s been caught during an audit of new applications. Every single Amex card I’ve ever applied for has stated this offer is only available to US residents

Re: Amex TPC under Financial Review

wowzera — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 18:39:26 GMT

@PlyrStar93

Yes, I understand that they may have problems in the future, but those who'd problems solved them just by going in the US Embassy in Brazil and filing a form in the presence of a licensed notary recognizing they applied for an account with American Express, giving their foreign passports to evaluate their identify.

In my case, though, Amex US is requiring the T-4506, which I don't have

About the address, Yes, I gave them an US Address that I use for years, it's not my own house, it's owned by a friend.

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