topic Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy) in Credit Cards

Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

B_Slow1 — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 05:22:08 GMT

I appreciate the advice from everyone here. I'm pretty new to points/rewards. Currently, I only have one points-earning credit card (Chase Ink Cash), which fits well into my business spend, so it's been easy to accumulate points quickly. I don't have the opportunity to travel much right now, but the idea of aspirational travel appealed to me, and I wanted to help myself toward that goal.

So I was looking at acquiring the Marriott Bonvoy Business card (100k SUB/ $5k spend), since they recently bumped up the bonus. But I currently have no concrete plans to use these 100k Marriott points. Taking into account these "Once in a Lifetime" Amex rules, and the "One Bonvoy Card at a Time" rule that seems to be in place, I figured this would be a good place to start with earning hotel points.

But is this a bad approach to aquiring points/rewards? Is it a poor decision to be accumulating points (primarily thru SUBs) that I don't have a specific use for? Thanks for the input.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 10:03:22 GMT

There is nothing wrong with it. Problem with points game, is they devalue all the time. If you want to use the points for aspirational travel project, its best the project will happen in the next 1-3 years rather than 5-10 years later.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

kdm31091 — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 12:14:18 GMT

The issue with stockpiling points is that if the bank decides to close your account for whatever reason, you are usually SOL with regards to points and they will be lost. With a case like a hotel card, I don't know if that applies because the points are already in your Bonvoy account.

That said, I still wouldn't stockpile points because the vast majority of the time, they are going to lose value as time goes on. It's best to have a plan to redeem within the next year or two, no further out than that.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 14:15:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
There is nothing wrong with it. Problem with points game, is they devalue all the time. If you want to use the points for aspirational travel project, its best the project will happen in the next 1-3 years rather than 5-10 years later.

This. Devaluation is always a concern, and with flexible programs, such as UR/MR/TYP there is always the risk that a transfer partner you want will go away.

That said, especially with the shortish term FortfiedHM suggests, it's probably better to accept the devaluation than waste the points either with a lower value redemption (statement credit or something) or on some travel you don't really want!

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

CreditInspired — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 14:40:40 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
The issue with stockpiling points is that if the bank decides to close your account for whatever reason, you are usually SOL with regards to points and they will be lost. With a case like a hotel card, I don't know if that applies because the points are already in your Bonvoy account.

That said, I still wouldn't stockpile points because the vast majority of the time, they are going to lose value as time goes on. It's best to have a plan to redeem within the next year or two, no further out than that.

Yep, a month or two back, a new poster shared how he lost $2K worth of points because he didn't realize you could lose them. His card had been shut down for some reason and he said he never received any notification (he may have missed the notification). I don't recall the CC, but I think the last thing I would do after reading his fate is to stockpile points.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

B_Slow1 — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 17:12:33 GMT

Thank you for the feedback, everyone. I suppose devaluation is a concern that I'd have to take into account. I have a couple of questions:

1) Since I don't get to travel much, I'd hardly (if ever) be able to gain hotel points/rewards with stays. So the bulk of the points I acquire would be through SUBs. Does that change the equation at all, given that I wouldn't be putting much spend on the card beyond obtaining the bonus?

2) A stupid question: If you only begin acquiring points for an aspirational trip 1-2 years out, how on earth do you get enough points quickly enough to make it worthwhile?? Especially when it comes to these new Marriott cards, where you seemingly can only get a bonus every 24 months.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

kdm31091 — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 17:38:41 GMT

You’ll want to concentrate your spending on the specific reward system you want to use to achieve your redemption goal. The more cards you spread out on, the longer it’s going to take you.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

NRB525 — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 18:14:00 GMT

I have built up stockpiles of points from a combination of SUB, business travel, personal travel, and Annual Free Nights on cards. I have used the points periodically when a good redemption turns up, and those were not pre-planned when I started getting SUB points. I have had some really nice trips to Hawaii, ski vacations, and just sightseeing that I do not regret.

The redemptions of points take a large amount of points. If you aren't travelling regularly, then SUB is really the only way to build up that stash of points.

The concern about devaluation is somewhat relevant, but if you don't have points (or a Free Night Award with the card) then you likely are not looking for travel opportunities. Which comes first; the points to use on travel, or the desire to go to a specific location and use points that you don't have on hand?

I would suggest going for the Marriott card. The SUB is as high as can be expected. If you have business costs the earn rate on this card is good, among Marriott cards, and the AF gets you an Annual Free Night, so it encourages you to get out there and travel.

There is no such thing as the perfect travel card, there is no such thing as the perfect future travel situation. We just have to enjoy what is available now, and enjoy what the banks are offering. There is also no real cost to get these SUB points, only opportunity lost if you don't get them and they are not offered later. Once you get into the mindset of earning points, and looking for how points can help you get to where you want to travel, it becomes it's own level of motivation.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Aim_High — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 18:20:28 GMT

@B_Slow1 wrote:
A stupid question: If you only begin acquiring points for an aspirational trip 1-2 years out, how on earth do you get enough points quickly enough to make it worthwhile??

@kdm31091 wrote:
You’ll want to concentrate your spending on the specific reward system you want to use to achieve your redemption goal. The more cards you spread out on, the longer it’s going to take you.

There are no stupid questions here.

As @kdm31091 said, concentrate your spending on that card if you have a reward goal. For people who travel freqently and put heavy reimbursable spend on personal cards, that process is much easier for them than for those who only have personal spend to put on cards.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Anonymous — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 18:41:58 GMT

It also helps to research the difference in cost between Hotel an Airfare to your destination, on whether it's advantagous to use rewards on the flight or lodging. Knowing where you plan to vacation can help you decide where to put your eggs.

It can be a chore to figure out where you'll get the best redemption, so it's best to nail that down first. Then get the card that fits your spend but also tranfers into the right travel partners for said trip. When I first started I spread things between to mnay CCs, meaning that I have several lower point balances instead of fewer large ones. So i would definitely say try to focus on only 1 to 2 points systems to maximize earning potential.

I have found that Amex is easier/quicker to earn points with, if you can catch the right SUB for Gold ED etc. I've managed to reach 120K between SUBs and spend since 17. And that's on rather minimal spend than what most people here put on their CCs. MR are also pretty universal for most travel I plan to take in Aisa. However, the trip to Australia/New Zealand they haven't been that helpful. So thankfully that's where AAdvantage comes in via Quantas, though I am still a few thousand short for Business Class @ only 70K. Chase URs only help if I want to travel on United, and I don't.

I would definitely put some research into it to know hoe beneficial those points will be to you, before just apping for any SUB that looks good.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Aim_High — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 01:21:19 GMT

Agree that your main risks are devaluation as well as potential loss of points. Points or cashback is not yours until you redeem it.

I went through a similar situation myself recently. My business travel is arranged directly through my company, so I don't pay for any of it. I can only rack up points through personal travel, which isn't frequent. I am also not a loyalist of any particular airline or hotel chain. My wife and I are empty-nesters and are looking forward to more travel in the coming years. Adding a travel card instead of just cash-back seemed a good idea.

I loved the Chase Sapphire Reserve card (and the Quadfecta with the CFU, CF, and INK) because it offered so much flexibility for people like me when it came to earning and redeeming travel points. After I had all those, I kept using up my 5/24 Chase slots to get two hotel cards, Marriott Bonvoy Boundless and World of Hyatt. I got those for two reasons: Great SUBS worth $800 and $850 respectively. And to eventually close the cards to consolidate credit lines with my Quadfecta cards since Chase is slow to raise limits but seems to let you keep them once you have them. (I already moved part of the hotel card limits. They both sit at $10K now but were approved at $33K and $30K respectively.)

I had no specific vacation trip in mind when I acquired all these points but I don't intend to keep the points long-term. With the huge SUBs and use in 16 months, I have racked up over 225K Chase UR points! I also have 160K Marriott Bonvoy points and will soon have over 70K Hyatt points. I just used the first 30K of my UR points for travel next month and plan to keep drawing down my accounts slowly. I'm beyond impressed with the SUBs I've gained and think Chase has the best overall selection of travel cards on the market right now! Hard to believe I've literally made thousands in SUBs in a year and a half!

The Chase and Hyatt cards are awesome cards but mainly if you stay at one or both chains often and pay out of pocket. They both offer great points value in-hotel. Even though I stay at both chains often, since I normally don't pay for my room directly, I decided I wouldn't get enough use out of them to justify keeping up with two more cards. They would mainly benefit me only when I charged food to my room a few times a year. For spending outside of the hotels, I have other options including my CSR and don't want to dilute my UR points focus for the long-term.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Aim_High — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 18:56:15 GMT

@CreditInspired wrote:
@kdm31091 wrote:
The issue with stockpiling points is that if the bank decides to close your account for whatever reason, you are usually SOL
Yep, a month or two back, a new poster shared how he lost $2K worth of points because he didn't realize you could lose them. His card had been shut down for some reason and he said he never received any notification (he may have missed the notification). I don't recall the CC, but I think the last thing I would do after reading his fate is to stockpile points.

I remember that posting. Sad. It was the Fidelity (Elan Financial Services) Visa card. Guy had over 200K points on the card which could have easily been moved to the Fidelity investment account where they would have been safe. He failed to move them over and then Elan took AA and shut down his card for some reason.

Definite lesson to be learned here and one reason I don't plan to keep my huge balances. The problem with travel points (MR, UR, TY) is that they are best used for ... travel redemption (duh! ... lol) and it takes a lot of them to make redemption worthwhile, so when you're playing the points game as opposed to cash-back, you're kinda stuck to some degree letting them accumulate for awhile.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

redpat — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 00:14:05 GMT

If you use your cards, don’t app spree seeking credit and pay them there is really nothing to worry about losing your points to a CCC.

I have and still do have a large chunk of MR and UR points sitting there. Don’t panic thinking you have to do something in case of a devaluation, plan your trips and try to get the most out of them.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

NRB525 — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 01:07:12 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:

I went through a similar situation myself recently. My business travel is arranged directly through my company, so I don't pay for any of it. I can only rack up points through personal travel, which isn't frequent. I am also not a loyalist of any particular airline or hotel chain.

In business travel, you should be registered with the airline and hotel programs, to earn butt-in-the-seat and overnight points, without paying anything for them. They are some of the basic points everyone should be signed up for, regardless of personal credit cards.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Gollum — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 01:12:45 GMT

I don't like to travel (I'm happy to stay at home), I am certain I am not eligible for business credit cards, others have pointed out that points decline in value over time, you're not able to travel much currently because you're busy (presumably busy making a profit ), and I have read fairly recently that airlines' seating upgrades aren't what they used to be (I think because in general, more people are eligible for credit card related upgrades than in the past).

I don't know much about business credit cards, but I suggest you also consider business cash rewards credit cards. I know at least one exists, but I'd rather not give that bank free advertising by mentioning it here.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Aim_High — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 01:27:57 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
I went through a similar situation myself recently. My business travel is arranged directly through my company, so I don't pay for any of it. I can only rack up points through personal travel, which isn't frequent. I am also not a loyalist of any particular airline or hotel chain.
In business travel, you should be registered with the airline and hotel programs, to earn butt-in-the-seat and overnight points, without paying anything for them. They are some of the basic points everyone should be signed up for, regardless of personal credit cards.

Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I've tried this. Even though I check in with my loyalty programs, it seems that often I am not getting credited since my employer pays via contracted agreements. But I still keep trying! I have the apps on my phone.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

SouthJamaica — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 14:48:55 GMT

@B_Slow1 wrote:
I appreciate the advice from everyone here. I'm pretty new to points/rewards. Currently, I only have one points-earning credit card (Chase Ink Cash), which fits well into my business spend, so it's been easy to accumulate points quickly. I don't have the opportunity to travel much right now, but the idea of aspirational travel appealed to me, and I wanted to help myself toward that goal.

So I was looking at acquiring the Marriott Bonvoy Business card (100k SUB/ $5k spend), since they recently bumped up the bonus. But I currently have no concrete plans to use these 100k Marriott points. Taking into account these "Once in a Lifetime" Amex rules, and the "One Bonvoy Card at a Time" rule that seems to be in place, I figured this would be a good place to start with earning hotel points.

But is this a bad approach to aquiring points/rewards? Is it a poor decision to be accumulating points (primarily thru SUBs) that I don't have a specific use for? Thanks for the input.

IMHO incurring an annual fee, and acquiring Marriott points, which aren't that valuable, when you have no specific need for them, would be a mistake.

Acquiring Chase's UR points or Citi's ThankYou points would make more sense to me.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

B_Slow1 — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 17:44:05 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@B_Slow1 wrote:
I appreciate the advice from everyone here. I'm pretty new to points/rewards. Currently, I only have one points-earning credit card (Chase Ink Cash), which fits well into my business spend, so it's been easy to accumulate points quickly. I don't have the opportunity to travel much right now, but the idea of aspirational travel appealed to me, and I wanted to help myself toward that goal.

So I was looking at acquiring the Marriott Bonvoy Business card (100k SUB/ $5k spend), since they recently bumped up the bonus. But I currently have no concrete plans to use these 100k Marriott points. Taking into account these "Once in a Lifetime" Amex rules, and the "One Bonvoy Card at a Time" rule that seems to be in place, I figured this would be a good place to start with earning hotel points.

But is this a bad approach to aquiring points/rewards? Is it a poor decision to be accumulating points (primarily thru SUBs) that I don't have a specific use for? Thanks for the input.
IMHO incurring an annual fee, and acquiring Marriott points, which aren't that valuable, when you have no specific need for them, would be a mistake.

Acquiring Chase's UR points or Citi's ThankYou points would make more sense to me.

Just to clarify, my thinking was that I would get a couple of Bonvoy cards over the next couple of years (since you can only have one at a time now), and collect the SUBs. The hope would be to save up enough points collecting SUBs to go somewhere nice, since I wouldn't be collecting points through spend at Marriott properties. I certainly wouldn't put all of my spend on the Marriott cards -- just enough to get the bonus.

All of my point-earning so far has been in UR points, which I agree makes more sense. But I figure I can throw enough non-bonus spend onto the Marriott card to get the SUB, so the impact on UR points is minimal. Only problem is: given how difficult it seems it would be to stockpile Marriott points, I don't know if it would be worth it. Doing it the way I envision wouldn't cost much, but would take a looooooong time. (You can only qualify for a bonus once every 24 mths.)

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

Anonymous — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 22:32:01 GMT

There's no guarantee of success getting SUB with each app though, especially if you've closed one just prior. And only spending enough to get the SUB and no more. Not to mention there is the once in a lifetime on Amex SUBs. So I don't see a person amassing too many Bonvoy points via SUBs alone with only two Marriott cards from Amex, at 75K points each.

You would have to use said cards so that you could offset the AF associated with them. Especially the Brilliant with $450 AF.

You'd probably be better off sticking to MR products, at least there's ore of them available to snag points from.

Re: Should I stockpile points without a specific use in mind? (Marriott Bonvoy)

iced — Mon, 09 Sep 2019 15:12:01 GMT

@B_Slow1 wrote:
I appreciate the advice from everyone here. I'm pretty new to points/rewards. Currently, I only have one points-earning credit card (Chase Ink Cash), which fits well into my business spend, so it's been easy to accumulate points quickly. I don't have the opportunity to travel much right now, but the idea of aspirational travel appealed to me, and I wanted to help myself toward that goal.

So I was looking at acquiring the Marriott Bonvoy Business card (100k SUB/ $5k spend), since they recently bumped up the bonus. But I currently have no concrete plans to use these 100k Marriott points. Taking into account these "Once in a Lifetime" Amex rules, and the "One Bonvoy Card at a Time" rule that seems to be in place, I figured this would be a good place to start with earning hotel points.

But is this a bad approach to aquiring points/rewards? Is it a poor decision to be accumulating points (primarily thru SUBs) that I don't have a specific use for? Thanks for the input.

I'm going to take a different approach to the general consensus here which seems to be not to stockpile.

Stockpiling actually isn't a horrible thing, and it's certainly better than running out and burning your points in fear of a devaluation that hasn't come yet. When these changes in valuations do occur, they're announced in advance and you have plenty of time to redeem points before the change.

On the other end of the spectrum, it's equally pointless to stockpile 5 million Bonvoy points when you don't need even 20% of that for most stays that aren't basically just you living at a hotel for a month. If you're hitting those levels, then yeah go ahead and take a wash on redeeming a portion of them.

My advice is to use them when they make for a good value. I personally keep a small balance of around 300,000-500,000 Bonvoy points, and whenever I book travel, if I see a hotel that's a little too highly-priced for the dates, I check its cost in points. If I can redeem for more than 1 cpp, I use points; otherwise, I use cash. I find this works great and have used it to book otherwise blah Marriotts that had high prices for a particular weekend or some other reason. 7,500 for a cat 1 hotel that is asking $160/night that weekend? Points. 50,000 for a cat 6 that wants $700/night for new years? Points.

If that balance creeps up to 600,000-1,000,000, I'm not running around with them burning a hole in my pocket and wasting them just to reduce the volume. I'd rather have the points for those times when I hit the NYE or festival weekend booking that wants 3x their normal rate and only shed some excess if I *know* a change in valuation is planned.

Side note here: not all changes are across-the-board devaluations. A change may cause one person to bemoan it while it opens up opportunities for another who before only saw poor valuation for their travel patterns. Also, Marriott just had a change with the Starwood merger, so I don't think they're going to rush out and do it again in the next year or two.