topic Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money? in Credit Cards

Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 05:38:51 GMT

I currently have the Paypal Cashback Mastercard and I am trying to figure out how this situation would work with Rewards as I don't see it anywhere in the T&C provided by Synchrony.

Everyone knows that Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9% for a Credit Card to send money to family/friends.

The CC gives 2% back in Rewards and it only states:

“Eligible Purchases” means net purchases (less credits, returns, and adjustments) of goods and services made using your Card Account by you or your
authorized users. Eligible Purchases do not include balance transfers, cash advances, convenience checks, disputed or unauthorized purchases/fraudulent
transactions or any other transactions that Synchrony Bank may determine in its sole discretion are not eligible to earn Cash Rewards.
You will earn 2% Cash Rewards on all Eligible Purchases. You will earn 2% Cash Rewards in the Reward Period on all Eligible Purchases made at PayPal

But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 09:03:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I currently have the Paypal Cashback Mastercard and I am trying to figure out how this situation would work with Rewards as I don't see it anywhere in the T&C provided by Synchrony.

Everyone knows that Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9% for a Credit Card to send money to family/friends.

The CC gives 2% back in Rewards and it only states:
“Eligible Purchases” means net purchases (less credits, returns, and adjustments) of goods and services made using your Card Account by you or your
authorized users. Eligible Purchases do not include balance transfers, cash advances, convenience checks, disputed or unauthorized purchases/fraudulent
transactions or any other transactions that Synchrony Bank may determine in its sole discretion are not eligible to earn Cash Rewards.
You will earn 2% Cash Rewards on all Eligible Purchases. You will earn 2% Cash Rewards in the Reward Period on all Eligible Purchases made at PayPal 
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?

Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:13:33 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I currently have the Paypal Cashback Mastercard and I am trying to figure out how this situation would work with Rewards as I don't see it anywhere in the T&C provided by Synchrony.

Everyone knows that Paypal charges $0.30 + 2.9% for a Credit Card to send money to family/friends.

The CC gives 2% back in Rewards and it only states:
“Eligible Purchases” means net purchases (less credits, returns, and adjustments) of goods and services made using your Card Account by you or your
authorized users. Eligible Purchases do not include balance transfers, cash advances, convenience checks, disputed or unauthorized purchases/fraudulent
transactions or any other transactions that Synchrony Bank may determine in its sole discretion are not eligible to earn Cash Rewards.
You will earn 2% Cash Rewards on all Eligible Purchases. You will earn 2% Cash Rewards in the Reward Period on all Eligible Purchases made at PayPal 
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?
Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.

Do you know this to be a fact?

I actually have used F+F on my QuickSilver and Discover and never been hit with a cash advance fee because PayPal doesn't pass that info on to the credit card companies which is what their fee is for. I wasn't sure if the Synchrony card was the same way though because obviously that card is directly connected to Synchrony.

You CAN use PayPal Credit to send money via F+F without a cash advance fee so it makes me curious about PayPal MasterCard but not enough to try it. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-credit/faq

"Can I use PayPal Credit to send money?

Yes! Log into your account at PayPal.com, select “Pay or send money” and choose whether you’re paying for goods or services or sending money to PayPal friends and family. Enter the recipient’s email address, mobile number or name and click “Next”. Enter the amount and click “Continue”. Click “Change Payment Method” to select PayPal Credit if it’s not already set, confirm your payment details and click “Send Money Now”. When you use PayPal Credit to send money in US dollars (USD) PayPal charges you a flat fee of 2.9% + $.30 USD per transaction, which is included with your payment total. This is the same fee you pay when you use a debit or a credit card to send money through PayPal.

Note: PayPal Credit promotional financing offers do not apply to send money transactions."

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

staticvoidmain — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:09:16 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?

It is likely. I am not sure as I haven't tried it personally. It should process as a regular charge and not as cash advance. This is, of course, Synchrony's discretion after you made the transaction.

I cannot find a concrete data point because this is not really ideal. You can try and let us know. I'd try sending maybe just $1.

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.

This is inaccurate. The distinction between friends/family and goods/services has nothing to do with these fees and limitations. It simply charges the recipient a fee for the goods and services for insurance purposes (purchase protection for the seller).

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:20:06 GMT

You can always contact Synchrony and have them set your cash advance limit to $0. You would never want to use a CA at those rates anyway. That way if it would code as CA, it would just be rejected.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:20:16 GMT

@staticvoidmain wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?
It is likely. I am not sure as I haven't tried it personally. It should process as a regular charge and not as cash advance. This is, of course, Synchrony's discretion after you made the transaction.

I cannot find a concrete data point because this is not really ideal. You can try and let us know. I'd try sending maybe just $1.

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.
This is inaccurate. The distinction between friends/family and goods/services has nothing to do with these fees and limitations. It simply charges the recipient a fee for the goods and services for insurance purposes (purchase protection for the seller).

No, it's extremely accurate. However, you wouldn't know because, as you admit, you have no experience with this whatsoever.

Whether you select payment for friends / family or goods / services, the recipient gets hit with a fee.

It's public knowledge, though, that your bank sees the motive behind the payment and if you do not select goods / services, they will consider it a cash advance. There is virtually no credit card in America that pays you rewards on cash advances just as there is virtually no credit card in America that does not start charging you interest on that cash advance immediately upon posting. PayPal has nothing to do with that whatsoever. They just report the transaction purpose to your bank.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:25:44 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@staticvoidmain wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?
It is likely. I am not sure as I haven't tried it personally. It should process as a regular charge and not as cash advance. This is, of course, Synchrony's discretion after you made the transaction.

I cannot find a concrete data point because this is not really ideal. You can try and let us know. I'd try sending maybe just $1.

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.
This is inaccurate. The distinction between friends/family and goods/services has nothing to do with these fees and limitations. It simply charges the recipient a fee for the goods and services for insurance purposes (purchase protection for the seller).
No, it's extremely accurate. However, you wouldn't know because, as you admit, you have no experience with this whatsoever.

Whether you select payment for friends / family or goods / services, the recipient gets hit with a fee.

It's public knowledge, though, that your bank sees the motive behind the payment and if you do not select goods / services, they will consider it a cash advance. There is virtually no credit card in America that pays you rewards on cash advances just as there is virtually no credit card in America that does not start charging you interest on that cash advance immediately upon posting. PayPal has nothing to do with that whatsoever. They just report the transaction purpose to your bank.

You do not know what you are talking about.

I actually used to use Friends and Family to pay my rent every month. There are no fees to send or receive unless you use a credit card as a funding source, in which case you get assessed 2.9% + $.30. This is why PayPal can shut down your account for sending F+F when you're purchasing items because they don't make any fees.

Discover also flat out advertises that you can use F+F on PayPal quarters for the 5%. You just want to be careful that you're actually sending those funds to a friend or family member outside of the house just in case.

Capital One and Discover both coded as purchase, not cash advance, when using F+F and earned full rewards.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:35:43 GMT

From the PayPal transaction page when you select "Sending to a friend":

"To avoid cash advance fees, use a balance, bank or debit card to send money."

Then there's a link that says "more info" which reads as follows:

"About card issuer fees: Most card issuers charge an extra cash advance fee to use a Mastercard or Visa credit card. Interest fees may also apply. Check with your bank to learn more about possible cash advance fees."

Unless you have a credit card with no cash advance fees -- such as the Barclaycard Ring MasterCard -- selecting "Sending to a friend" will result in a cash advance. The best option is "Paying for an item or service". There are a few caveats to this method as most people involved in heavy M$ understand, but probably cannot be discussed here.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

staticvoidmain — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:39:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

No, it's extremely accurate. However, you wouldn't know because, as you admit, you have no experience with this whatsoever.

Stop providing false information by discrediting our responses. I said I did not have experience with PayPal Cashback Mastercard as a backup credit. I linked the buyer protection document. I do have experience with it as both a seller and buyer.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:51:10 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@staticvoidmain wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
But, could you actually go to Paypal, send say $100 to someone & pay $0.30 + $2.90, fund it via the CC, then actually get back 2% or $2, basically getting most of the fee back?
It is likely. I am not sure as I haven't tried it personally. It should process as a regular charge and not as cash advance. This is, of course, Synchrony's discretion after you made the transaction.

I cannot find a concrete data point because this is not really ideal. You can try and let us know. I'd try sending maybe just $1.

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you can do that. However, you have two options when sending money. One is sending money as cash to a friend or other person. The other is making payment for goods and services. If you do not hit the option of payment for goods and services, not only will you not get the cashback bonus, but you will get hit with a cash advance fee.
This is inaccurate. The distinction between friends/family and goods/services has nothing to do with these fees and limitations. It simply charges the recipient a fee for the goods and services for insurance purposes (purchase protection for the seller).
No, it's extremely accurate. However, you wouldn't know because, as you admit, you have no experience with this whatsoever.

Whether you select payment for friends / family or goods / services, the recipient gets hit with a fee.

It's public knowledge, though, that your bank sees the motive behind the payment and if you do not select goods / services, they will consider it a cash advance. There is virtually no credit card in America that pays you rewards on cash advances just as there is virtually no credit card in America that does not start charging you interest on that cash advance immediately upon posting. PayPal has nothing to do with that whatsoever. They just report the transaction purpose to your bank.

You do not know what you are talking about.

I actually used to use Friends and Family to pay my rent every month. There are no fees to send or receive unless you use a credit card as a funding source, in which case you get assessed 2.9% + $.30. This is why PayPal can shut down your account for sending F+F when you're purchasing items because they don't make any fees.

Discover also flat out advertises that you can use F+F on PayPal quarters for the 5%. You just want to be careful that you're actually sending those funds to a friend or family member outside of the house just in case.

Capital One and Discover both coded as purchase, not cash advance, when using F+F and earned full rewards.

Well, PayPal themselves say you are confused.

The recipient pays the PayPal fees of 2.9% & $0.30 on "goods / services". If you send "friends / family" there is a choice where either you pay the fee or the recipient pays. It's still the same 2.9% plus $0.30, unless it's an overseas transaction or the person you pay uses the PayPal Here swipe tool at which time the fee is slightly less.

Maybe you missed the blurb, but Discover acts a bit differently from other credit card companies. Just because they have a promotion with PayPal during certain quarters doesn't mean every other credit card issuer does the same. Again, you need to actually read what PayPal says.

There are other myFICO contributors who also think you are confused:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Sending-money-via-PayPal-using-a-credit-card/m-p/4816346/highlight/true#M1403357

Again, there are only a few card issuers that do not clasify the transaction to "family and friends" as a cash advance. If any doubt, call your card issuer or first conduct a test transaction.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 14:56:50 GMT

@staticvoidmain wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
No, it's extremely accurate. However, you wouldn't know because, as you admit, you have no experience with this whatsoever.

Stop providing false information by discrediting our responses. I said I did not have experience with PayPal Cashback Mastercard as a backup credit. I linked the buyer protection document. I do have experience with it as both a seller and buyer.

You are the one who said "It's inaccurate". I simply used your verbage and pointed out that it is accurate. As a seller or a buyer you wouldn't have any experience with the cash advance fee aspect.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:00:45 GMT

I know the whole send F+F on Paypal is a confusing system.

I always seen that warning "Card may process as cash advanced" but I've personally seen credit cards (never the Paypal Cashback Card) just process the entire thing as a "purchase" and still give rewards.

The reason I was curious about the PCC Card was since it's directly linked to Paypal, if Paypal instantly would have known it's a sending of money and immediately deem it as no rewards.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Nov 2019 02:55:25 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I know the whole send F+F on Paypal is a confusing system.

I always seen that warning "Card may process as cash advanced" but I've personally seen credit cards (never the Paypal Cashback Card) just process the entire thing as a "purchase" and still give rewards.

The reason I was curious about the PCC Card was since it's directly linked to Paypal, if Paypal instantly would have known it's a sending of money and immediately deem it as no rewards.

There are numerous people here on myFICO who have been hit with CA fees and interest. Discover doesn't. Barclaycard Ring doesn't. CapOne probably won't, especially if you have their perpetual $0 fee CA offers.

But Citi, Chase and USAA will. Wells Fargo will.

No idea about the PP MC. Best thing to do is give it a test. You could call and ask, but myFICO is full of posts about people who get crazy and inaccurate answers / advice from CSRs.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:07:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I know the whole send F+F on Paypal is a confusing system.

I always seen that warning "Card may process as cash advanced" but I've personally seen credit cards (never the Paypal Cashback Card) just process the entire thing as a "purchase" and still give rewards.

The reason I was curious about the PCC Card was since it's directly linked to Paypal, if Paypal instantly would have known it's a sending of money and immediately deem it as no rewards.

Correct. The whole thing is confusing but I reached out to PayPal support before and they told me that the notice about cash advances is a CYA type of thing but that they do not report the transaction as a cash advance. I have never gotten them on either of the cards I used it for and the only reason why I am curious about whether Synchrony would code as one is because of their tight integration with PayPal as well.

I do not really care what the other person has to say versus my own personal experience. Lots of things with PayPal tend to be a bit ambiguous.

I would say contact Sync and have them set your cash advance limit to $0 and see. I have a feeling that it won't code as a cash advance but I don't have any need for F+F right now.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:17:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I know the whole send F+F on Paypal is a confusing system.

I always seen that warning "Card may process as cash advanced" but I've personally seen credit cards (never the Paypal Cashback Card) just process the entire thing as a "purchase" and still give rewards.

The reason I was curious about the PCC Card was since it's directly linked to Paypal, if Paypal instantly would have known it's a sending of money and immediately deem it as no rewards.
There are numerous people here on myFICO who have been hit with CA fees and interest. Discover doesn't. Barclaycard Ring doesn't. CapOne probably won't, especially if you have their perpetual $0 fee CA offers.

But Citi, Chase and USAA will. Wells Fargo will.

No idea about the PP MC. Best thing to do is give it a test. You could call and ask, by myFICO is full of posts about people who get crazy and inaccurate answers / advice from CSRs.

In that very same thread you linked, someone sent $9500 with an AMEX and wasn't hit with a CA.

I found a thread where someone stated that Chase DOES NOT code as CA. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Sending-money-with-PayPal-using-discover-card/m-p/5144040/highlight/true#M1512265

The only real way to know is to test it but you shouldn't speak in absolutes because those of us with experience using this feature have had different results.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

staticvoidmain — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 15:29:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
You are the one who said "It's inaccurate". I simply used your verbage and pointed out that it is accurate. As a seller or a buyer you wouldn't have any experience with the cash advance fee aspect.

I said it was inaccurate because it is not straight-up incorrect information. You were mixing rules. The distinction between friends/family and goods/services, again, has NOTHING to do with the credit card fees. This distinction is made by PayPal only to determine if the recipient is protected or not. Here, let me show you:

Now, this, this is incorrect information:

@Anonymous wrote:
Whether you select payment for friends / family or goods / services, the recipient gets hit with a fee.

I have been sending and receiving money in PayPal as "friends/family" countless times without a fee. Here is an example that contrasts the difference between family/friends and goods/services:

As you can see, as a recipient, I only got a fee on the second one.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

JSS3 — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:40:49 GMT

FACTS:

Paypal Credit(formerly Bill Me Later) codes as a cash advance when sending friend to friend/family

Citi Double Cash codes as cash advance for the above aswell. Paypal will charge you the fee. Citi will charge you the cash advance fee on top of that. Then when your statement cuts, you get hit with the cash advance interest.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:47:04 GMT

@JSS3 wrote:
FACTS:

Paypal Credit(formerly Bill Me Later) codes as a cash advance when sending friend to friend/family

Citi Double Cash codes as cash advance for the above aswell. Paypal will charge you the fee. Citi will charge you the cash advance fee on top of that. Then when your statement cuts, you get hit with the cash advance interest.

Then why doesn't PayPal mention this?

"Send money with PayPal Credit.

Need to pay a friend back? You can send money in a few clicks
using your credit line with PayPal Credit.
When you use PayPal Credit to send money in US dollars (USD) PayPal charges you a flat fee of 2.9% + $.30 USD per transaction is included with your payment total.
This is the same fee you pay when you use a debit or a credit card to send money through PayPal."

I mean they have a whole page dedicated to it - https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/bml-send-money

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

Anonymous — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:58:29 GMT

Okay so it took some digging but I found my way to the terms and conditions for PayPal Credit. For some reason PayPal doesn't disclose anywhere that using PayPal Credit for F+F is a cash advance. Synchrony's terms do, however.

https://www.synchronybankterms.com/gecrbterms/pdf/PAYPAL_CREDIT.pdf

Based on this, I would not use PayPal Cashback to send money. It will almost certainly code as a cash advance.

Re: Paypal Cashback Mastercard Rewards with sending family/friend money?

JSS3 — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 17:05:06 GMT

@Saeren,

I type what I know.

Paypal Credit(different from what the OP is asking about) codes as a CA when sending to friends. It was different some years back. You were able to send to friends and it not be classified as a cash advance AND you'd get the 6 months promotion. That hasn't been the case for about 3 or maybe 4 years now.

Just like Citi Double Cash wasn't a cash advance May of this year, but is now.