topic Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex? in Credit Cards

Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:10:44 GMT

I have a bit of a dilemma. I’ve crunched the numbers and can’t justify keeping my beloved CSR beyond this year. I’m in between downgrading it and sticking with the Chase ecosystem (which I love!) or sorta switching to Amex. Dilemma. My spouse has the Amex platinum with about 50k MR balance. Annual fee is due next month. We won’t be keeping the Amex platinum. One thought is to have her apply for the Amex green card to keep the point balance alive, get the sub, and over the summer after canceling the CSR switch dining and travel to the green card. We value the lounge buddy and clear credits so it’s a great fit for us. We would keep all of the non bonus spend on the Hyatt Visa. We love Hyatt points and it is the reason we have stayed and loved the chase ecosystem. Other option is to downgrade to the CSP but we would only get 2x on travel/dining (our biggest categories).

So the dilemma, stay with the beloved Chase or switch to the evil Amex? Goal is to keep a good balance of transferable airline and hotel points. Though the Hyatt visa can fill in the gaps. We have enough chase cards that offer primary rental coverage so that isn’t an issue.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:32:16 GMT

if you considered all aspect (including lounge, 1.5cpp, partner transfer) and creunched numbers, I don't see why there is a need to stay in UR system.

now if you are unsure if your math is complete, you will need to provide way more details for others to double check for you.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

wasCB14 — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:39:37 GMT

I recently PCed my CSR to a second Freedom.

Hyatt points are good, but a lot of my travel has been to visit friends and family, or in places where there were no Hyatts or award space. I've been using airline miles faster than hotel points. With the certificates and credits from my cards, I won't need any more hotel points for a while.

So I use BofA Premium (PH 2.625%/3.5% travel and dining) instead of Hyatt now as a dining card.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:41:03 GMT

The question really is, do you want to maximize rewards, or stay with a system you like. Which is worth more to you?

But amex has cookies. Ask @UncleB

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

mongstradamus — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:42:34 GMT

My take would be do you know how you would use your MR and UR, which would you consider to have much better value. For just travel and dining the green card seems like just the better deal. I also personally think MR >UR , UR is just too limited with the amount of partners they have now , and how much each of the programs they do have been nerfed into the ground.

I do still have hands in UR and MR right now with CIP for 3x travel and UR transfer partners with a plethora of their no af cards both freedoms and both of the no af ink cards. I have MR with my Amex gold card for the 4x restaurants and groceries. I am saving most of my UR for hotels whenever i need them.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:42:56 GMT

the cookie is a lie.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 02:44:34 GMT

Wife was just approved for the Amex Green. Goodbye CSR. I’m actually a little emotional about this switch. I was pro Amex in the 00s (SPG - best ever), pro Chase in the 10s, and now again back on the Amex bandwagon again (ugh!!!) in the 20s. I wish Chase would change their mind about this senseless fee hike. It’s a play out the Amex platinum book - everyone hates these stupid credits.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

mongstradamus — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 02:51:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wife was just approved for the Amex Green. Goodbye CSR. I’m actually a little emotional about this switch. I was pro Amex in the 00s (SPG - best ever), pro Chase in the 10s, and now again back on the Amex bandwagon again (ugh!!!) in the 20s. I wish Chase would change their mind about this senseless fee hike. It’s a play out the Amex platinum book - everyone hates these stupid credits.

I am actually wondering how much the 100k CSR SUB originally affected/is affecting CSR AF hikes. At least with CSR the travel credit are a lot easier to use than the Amex ones. I am wondering if EDP+Green may be better fit for me than Amex gold.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

wasCB14 — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 03:42:31 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Wife was just approved for the Amex Green. Goodbye CSR. I’m actually a little emotional about this switch. I was pro Amex in the 00s (SPG - best ever), pro Chase in the 10s, and now again back on the Amex bandwagon again (ugh!!!) in the 20s. I wish Chase would change their mind about this senseless fee hike. It’s a play out the Amex platinum book - everyone hates these stupid credits.
I am actually wondering how much the 100k CSR SUB originally affected/is affecting CSR AF hikes. At least with CSR the travel credit are a lot easier to use than the Amex ones. I am wondering if EDP+Green may be better fit for me than Amex gold.

In a perverse way, I actually kind of like the Amex credits as they are.

Those particular restrictions don't inconvenience me too greatly, and between Uber and airfare extras credits I only lose about 10% to waste (such as not using an Uber credit or paying some inflated amount on Uber Eats). Before getting tougher on gift card redemptions, I think I read (drawn from an Amex earnings call transcript) that Amex customers on average used only 75% of the $200 airfare extras credit. The Uber waste is probably just as great.

So if something is reasonably good for me...and cheap for Amex to provide to the average Platinum customer...that may give it some nerf resistance.

I don't assign much value to the Saks credit. I even forgot to buy some socks in the second half of 2019. But I have gotten some socks before, and initially even got a favorable error when it offset a liquor store purchase.

For someone who likes Hyatt hotels (and doesn't mind the few properties) and either doesn't fly much, only flies United, can find cheap revenue seats for 1.5 cpp redemptions, etc...I can see the appeal of URs.

Hyatt and United were once the darlings of the UR program, but both have both gone through reasonable devaluations in the last few years. Chase transfer bonuses are very rare, and Chase lacks a 2x card like BBP for MR or DC for TY.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Jccflat — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 03:51:13 GMT

If i use Uber 4 grand a year will be worth it to switch from CSP to CSR?
I’ll use instead the Lyft I guess

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

wasCB14 — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 03:54:38 GMT

@Jccflat wrote:

If i use Uber 4 grand a year will be worth it to switch from CSP to CSR?
I’ll use instead the Lyft I guess

It may well be worth switching, but take into account that you can buy Uber Cash for 5% off in the app. And maybe you can get gift cards somewhere at a greater discount.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 03:59:39 GMT

@Jccflat wrote:

If i use Uber 4 grand a year will be worth it to switch from CSP to CSR?
I’ll use instead the Lyft I guess

It would make a ton of sense now at 10x pts.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:10:09 GMT

I have a similar dilema. Canceling my CSR before my renewal date in April. Can't go wrong with Amex Green (3x on travel and dining) or Gold.(4x dining, groceries, and 3x airlines). Depending on your spend categories, these are probably the best rewards cards on the market today!

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:20:02 GMT

@mongstradamus wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Wife was just approved for the Amex Green. Goodbye CSR. I’m actually a little emotional about this switch. I was pro Amex in the 00s (SPG - best ever), pro Chase in the 10s, and now again back on the Amex bandwagon again (ugh!!!) in the 20s. I wish Chase would change their mind about this senseless fee hike. It’s a play out the Amex platinum book - everyone hates these stupid credits.
I am actually wondering how much the 100k CSR SUB originally affected/is affecting CSR AF hikes. At least with CSR the travel credit are a lot easier to use than the Amex ones. I am wondering if EDP+Green may be better fit for me than Amex gold.

if you can use green's credit, may as well go green+gold. Gold's credit isn't that hard to use, and it does look very nice.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

redpat — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:35:54 GMT

Switched to Amex since prg changes never looked back. I only keep CSR because of my biz spend on ink+.

Amex is no evil empire but the CC war between the big three is a Story of the tortoise and the hare. Amex beat them at the end.

I tried Hyatt and gave up because of their small footprint.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:43:11 GMT

@redpat wrote:
Switched to Amex since prg changes never looked back. I only keep CSR because of my biz spend on ink+.

Amex is no evil empire but the CC war between the big three is a Story of the tortoise and the hare. Amex beat them at the end.

I tried Hyatt and gave up because of their small footprint.

Im not sure what data you have to support these statements, lol. Everywhere I look, chase is on top with card in circulation, and balances extended. maybe Citi, amex, bofA adn cap 1 are sharing next spots.

https://wallethub.com/edu/cc/credit-card-companies/20409/

now if you mean per card holder, amex holder spent more, sure, but thats not a recent development.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

redpat — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 16:35:33 GMT

Not in travel perks or the ability to gather reward points. When is the last time chase had a transfer bonus. BOA doesn’t even come close in rewards.

I could care who had the most cards out there.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2020 17:31:43 GMT

@redpat wrote:
Not in travel perks or the ability to gather reward points. When is the last time chase had a transfer bonus. BOA doesn’t even come close in rewards.

I could care who had the most cards out there.

Ah, you meant amex "beat" chase in the value of their system for card holders. Thats probably true. Their cards can rack up a lot of points pretty quick, and can be valuable in cpp sense.

Still, UR has its advantages. Even though csR/P earning rate is pathetic, it is still not hard to rack up UR points through 5% categories in their personal and business cards. Flexibility of using UR at 1.5-1.6cpp, anywhere, anytime, any airline, is a very attractive feature for many too.

Transfer bonus is indeed a great feature of MR system, but its not a guaranteed feature, and not something people can use whenever they need it. I know chase did one for BA last year, I hope they do more this year. I do wonder, however, how long this transfer bonus will be meaningful, as we are seeing airlines keep devaluating their points. When airline miles drops to 1cpp, 1.25-1.5 x transfer bonus won't make the MR math better than UR.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

redpat — Mon, 13 Jan 2020 05:31:37 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@redpat wrote:
Not in travel perks or the ability to gather reward points. When is the last time chase had a transfer bonus. BOA doesn’t even come close in rewards.

I could care who had the most cards out there.
Ah, you meant amex "beat" chase in the value of their system for card holders. Thats probably true. Their cards can rack up a lot of points pretty quick, and can be valuable in cpp sense.

Still, UR has its advantages. Even though csR/P earning rate is pathetic, it is still not hard to rack up UR points through 5% categories in their personal and business cards. Flexibility of using UR at 1.5-1.6cpp, anywhere, anytime, any airline, is a very attractive feature for many too.

Transfer bonus is indeed a great feature of MR system, but its not a guaranteed feature, and not something people can use whenever they need it. I know chase did one for BA last year, I hope they do more this year. I do wonder, however, how long this transfer bonus will be meaningful, as we are seeing airlines keep devaluating their points. When airline miles drops to 1cpp, 1.25-1.5 x transfer bonus won't make the MR math better than UR.

2019 bonus transfers

Amex. 13 including Hilton and Marriott

Citi. 5

Chase. 1

Chase personal 5x is limited to $6k spend on Categories.

I do get 1.55x w/ Amex biz plat with 35% redemption rebate.

The math will always be better because I will be getting more MR points than UR points for the same spend and I still have the biz rebate to use.

Re: Downgrade CSR and keep UR or switch to Amex?

Revelate — Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:42:38 GMT

Two somewhat side questions on this whole debate

BOFA: I'm assuming that all of you who are rocking their Platinum Honors how do you like the ML investing experience? Self directed just the Merril Edge I think it's called.

Amex: Gold on groceries; I'm finding myself eating from online meal prep more often: bout the same cost as eating out and I'm unquestionably eating better and I'm saving time to boot. Rather surprised at how good frozen meals are these days TBH, 2 minutes in microwave to table. Does the Gold code the same as the Zync? I could try a flier transaction on a couple of the services I've been testing and see if it comes up, well, gold. Or is it really a non-starter like it appears to be in Chase land?

On the flipside I know I mentioned the BBP in another thread that I could get so if it falls to default I'll deal if I go that route. Just need to see how much am traveling I guess but I'm seriously considering pivoting away from Chase for all that I'll probably just downgrade the CSR->something and call it good. I still have the Ink Preferred for travel if I stay there.