topic Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler in Credit Cards

AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

BeEasyMark — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:22:26 GMT

Hello all,

Looking for help to maximize my rewards/cash back on my spending. Currently the only card I have is an AMEX Platinum as an AU. I'm very close to having all of my credit reports cleaned up and start applying for cards again. Would like some suggestions based on my spending habits. I would say that accumulating points for business/first class flights is my main goal.

I travel often (LA to Boston/NYC once a month, LA to Southeast Asia 4-5x a year) mostly on United because I have Gold status. I stuck with United because they used to fly LA-SIN direct. I base most of my Southeast Asia travels out of Singapore because I used to live there and visit friends there on layovers. I also have family in Vietnam and usually fly there via Singapore or Japan (I used to live in Tokyo also). Currently all of these flights are booked on my AMEX Platinum because I get 5X MR. I can't combine my MR with my United miles because MR doesn't transfer to United - not ideal but I can transfer to Krisflyer or ANA to book rewards. Maybe I should be accumulating my United flights on Krisflyer instead? I'm not really loyal to any hotel group as of now.

So for travel - AMEX Platinum 5X on flights and 5X on hotels booked through their website, CSR 3X on all travel.

For daily spending:

I've been living in LA without a car for a few years, so I Uber everywhere. And if/when I do get a car, I'd still use Uber when I drink.

AMEX Platinum gets a $200 yearly credit for Uber, CSR counts Uber as 3X travel.

I also don't cook at all so I either eat out or Postmates/UberEats almost everyday.

AMEX PRG gets 4X on dining, CSR gets 3X. I don't know how either codes food delivery, which I spend a lot on.

Bills/Utilities - I assume these are 1X categories because a lot of providers don't accept AMEX. Should I use a cashback card on these or are there other ways to maximize return?

Subscriptions - I have almost every subscription possible, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, YoutubeTV, Apple Music, iCloud storage, etc. Suggestions?

Also, I order quite often from Amazon Prime for household things.

Thankful for any suggestions on which cards I should apply for to maximize returns on every dollar spent! Hopefully I was thorough enough.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

TheBoondocks — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:26:03 GMT

Easy Mark, get the US Bank Cash plus for streaming and utilities for 5% cash back NO AF! And you could use it for dining as well but I would use CSR for dining unless you just want cash.
I use all Amazon purchases on Amazon card unless there is a Amazon amex offer for MR which apparently I got lol hopes it helps bro, I'm Vietnamese btw!

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:37:58 GMT

You will probably get many differing opinions on here, so I'll share mine. It sounds like you may have answered your own question on the travel cards, AMEX plat for airfare and hotels (unless you choose a specific brand and stick with it) plus you get lounge access. AMEX plat for UBER. Gold for dining. This should maximize your MR points.

That's my 2 cents.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:38:45 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
I travel often (LA to Boston/NYC once a month, LA to Southeast Asia 4-5x a year) mostly on United because I have Gold status. I stuck with United because they used to fly LA-SIN direct. I base most of my Southeast Asia travels out of Singapore because I used to live there and visit friends there on layovers. I also have family in Vietnam and usually fly there via Singapore or Japan (I used to live in Tokyo also). Currently all of these flights are booked on my AMEX Platinum because I get 5X MR. I can't combine my MR with my United miles because MR doesn't transfer to United - not ideal but I can transfer to Krisflyer or ANA to book rewards. Maybe I should be accumulating my United flights on Krisflyer instead? I'm not really loyal to any hotel group as of now.

So for travel - AMEX Platinum 5X on flights and 5X on hotels booked through their website, CSR 3X on all travel.

@BeEasyMark You'll get a lot of different opinions here because there's a lot of ways to achieve similar results.

In my case, I have no employer-reimbursed airfare and just couldn't justify the AF on the AMEX PLAT for my situation. Yours sounds different. In my case, I love my CSR because of that exact flexibility it offers in redemption as well as the value back on the AF if I use the card. Don't forget to include the 50% redemption bump you get when you redeem UR points for travel through Chase portal. That 3% back on dining and travel becomes 4.5% effective rate of return. UR points can be very competitive to MR points in valuation.

Since you're a United loyalist (or at least stuck with them lol), have you considered the Chase United-affiliate cards to focus more on maximizing those United awards? United CLUB card for $450 AF includes lounge access plus 2 miles/$ at United and 1.5 miles everywhere else plus 2 free checked bags. (Current 50K mile SUB.) United EXPLORER MILEAGE PLUS card has $0 AF year one, then $95 afterward with 40K mile SUB, 2 miles per $ at United an 1 mile per $ everywhere else.

Just a thought ...

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:47:47 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote: Subscriptions - I have almost every subscription possible, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, YoutubeTV, Apple Music, iCloud storage, etc. Suggestions?

AMEX Blue Cash Preferred.

Most people value it mostly for the 6% back on first $6K spend in groceries.

However, you'd probably benefit more from the 6% back

on streaming services (no annual spending cap.)

There is an $95 AF, so see if you can justify the numbers.

You probably can.

Here is list of current AMEX streaming services:

Select U.S. Streaming Subscriptions

To earn additional rewards on streaming subscription purchases, the purchase must be made from a provider that is included on our list of Select U.S. Streaming Subscriptions:

Amazon Music
Apple Music
Audible
CBS All Access
Direct TV Now
ESPN+
Fubo TV
HBO Now
Hulu
iHeartRadio
Kindle Unlimited
MLB.TV
NBA League Pass
Netflix
NHL.TV
Pandora
Prime Video Unlimited
Showtime
Sling TV
SiriusXM Streaming and Satellite
Spotify
Stitcher
YouTube Music Premium
YouTube Premium
YouTube TV

If your subscription is bundled with another product or service or billed by a third party (such as a digital platform, a cable, telecommunications, or internet provider, or a car manufacturer), your purchase may not be eligible.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:54:05 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
I've been living in LA without a car for a few years, so I Uber everywhere. And if/when I do get a car, I'd still use Uber when I drink.
I also don't cook at all so I either eat out or Postmates/UberEats almost everyday.

Do you have an iPhone or Android?

New Apple Card Mastercard from Goldman Sachs just got released.

It includes 3% (no spending cap) on UBER and UBER EATS.

Plus you get 3% off at Apple stores.

And 2% off everywhere that accepts Apple Pay.

*Only 1% everywhere else is not that great however if you use physical card.

You can apply right through your iPhone Wallet app.

See more here: https://www.apple.com/apple-card/?rid=287-cid%3Dapy-311-100000080000-100000000000078-301100000000314

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:59:11 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
Also, I order quite often from Amazon Prime for household things.

If you're a big spender at Amazon, you really need this ...

Amazon Prime Rewards Visa Signature Card from Chase

5% back at Amazon

Get a $70 Amazon.com Gift Card instantly upon credit card approval*

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Prime-Rewards-Visa-Signature-Card/dp/BT00LN946S

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

K-in-Boston — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 20:20:26 GMT

I would caution against maximizing certain categories with new cards that have small SUBs or no SUB at all (like Apple). In addition to the new account dings, many cards will have minimum redemption amounts and a large SUB can easily outweigh higher rewards percentages. For 3% back on something, you might need to spend $20-60k in just that one single category in the first year to outweigh another card with a large SUB that might be worth $500-750 on its own, as many airline, hotel, and premium cards will have.

FWIW Uber Eats does not code as dining on Amex, but travel. It also codes as travel on Visa, so does earn 3x on CSR, Altitude Reserve, etc.

While I'm certainly an Amex fanboy, in your case with heavy Uber Eats use, I think CSR combined with Freedom Unlimited for non-travel/dining (and Freedom if you can swing it later for 5 UR categories) might be a great all-around strategy - especially if you can maintain your Amex Platinum AU card as you still get all of the lounge and hotel status benefits.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 21:13:52 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
Bills/Utilities - I assume these are 1X categories because a lot of providers don't accept AMEX. Should I use a cashback card on these or are there other ways to maximize return?

Yes, a flat-rate cash back card is always a good choice. That 1% or less rate of return is completely passe'. There are dozens of choices starting at 1.5% and even quite a few at 2% or above. The higher-paying 2%+ cards often have some quirks or fine print that you need to be aware of. The banks don't like to make it easy for you to get your 2% from their tight little fingers! Lol Things like minimum redemptions, how to redeem to get full value, expiration of points, foreign transaction fees, etc. Here are some of the more popular 2% options. You may also need to have an account open with some of these lenders to get their card.

Citi Double Cash Visa (Citibank) (*1% when you buy; 1% when you pay)

PayPal Cashback Mastercard (Synchrony Bank) *Deposited into PayPal account

Fidelity Visa (Elan Financial Services) 2% if deposited into Fidelity investment account.

Alliant Credit Union Visa Signature Visa $99 AF waived year one; 3% year one, then 2.5% afterward

PenFed Credit Union Power Cash *2% if Veteran or with checking account

Navy FCU Flagship Rewards ($49 AF); 2%+ on everything; 3% on travel

FNBO Cash Rewards Visa *2% if deposited, 1% not

BBVA Rewards Card *2% if deposited to account

Key Bank Cashback Card *2% if bank; 1.5% if not

State Dept FCU Premium Cash Back Plus

Randolph-Brooks FCU Cashback Rewards Visa

Pennsylvania State Employees CU (PSECU) with $500 direct deposit

Signature FCU Visa Signature

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 20:48:02 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
While I'm certainly an Amex fanboy, in your case with heavy Uber Eats use, I think CSR combined with Freedom Unlimited for non-travel/dining (and Freedom if you can swing it later for 5 UR categories) might be a great all-around strategy - especially if you can maintain your Amex Platinum AU card as you still get all of the lounge and hotel status benefits.

That's a pretty good suggestion too, under the circumstances. CSR + CFU (the "bifecta") is a great combination for simplicity. Many people add the Freedom to make the trifecta or Freedom + an INK business card for a quadfecta. All options allow you to transfer all UR points to the CSR account where they are worth 50% more. So that CFU 1.5% unlimited is worth 2.25% in UR points when you move them to CSR portal for redemption. That beats the 2% cash out option cards I just posted above. It depends on whether you would prefer the direct cash or UR points.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 21:41:30 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I would caution against maximizing certain categories with new cards that have small SUBs or no SUB at all (like Apple). ... a large SUB can easily outweigh higher rewards percentages. For 3% back on something, you might need to spend $20-60k in just that one single category in the first year to outweigh another card with a large SUB that might be worth $500-750

That's a very good point except for the part about "the first year."

It depends on OP's long-term intentions.

If OP plans to keep these cards and use for several years, that

$20 to $60K spend could be recouped slowly over time and eventually

the lower/no-SUB card will often win out.

It seems to me that higher SUBs often are offered on cards with AFs or which might prove uncompetitive to rate of return one might achieve on other cards over time as a way to entice the consumer to commit. So for someone who plans to keep the card, the lower SUB may win the game in time. (For example: Aesop's The Tortoise and the Hare story.)

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

wasCB14 — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 21:26:50 GMT

I fly out of LAX usually, sometimes ONT.

I have Schwab Amex Platinum for perks (mainly lounge access), but don't book much travel with it due to the lack of delay/cancellation coverage.

I put most travel and dining spend on CSR, including occasional Uber/UberEats spend. I'm not a fan of the new-ish "service fee" on Eats but can usually put the $15/$35 Amex Platinum credit towards a ride.

I have the Amex Delta Platinum for the companion certificate, and the Barclays Aviator Red for free bags on American. When I fly United it's usually to SFO/ACV and I can get by with a carry-on.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 22:12:45 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
I would caution against maximizing certain categories with new cards that have small SUBs or no SUB at all (like Apple). ... a large SUB can easily outweigh higher rewards percentages. For 3% back on something, you might need to spend $20-60k in just that one single category in the first year to outweigh another card with a large SUB that might be worth $500-750
That's a very good point except for the part about "the first year."
It depends on OP's long-term intentions.
If OP plans to keep these cards and use for several years, that
$20 to $60K spend could be recouped slowly over time and eventually
the lower/no-SUB card will often win out.

It seems to me that higher SUBs often are offered on cards with AFs or which might prove uncompetitive to rate of return one might achieve on other cards over time as a way to entice the consumer to commit. So for someone who plans to keep the card, the lower SUB may win the game in time. (For example: Aesop's The Tortoise and the Hare story.)

The credit card space has seen a few changes since Aesop's day! IMO, planning to keep a card long term is not the right approach (you MAY in fact keep it, but don't assume you will). A card that is now good in one sector may get nerfed or a new competitor may take over, your needs might change (e.g. OP finds an alternative to heavy streaming). And in any case, going for good SUBs, as long as they offered, at a reasonable pace, makes sense, and if they do dry up, then you can find the best going-forward card.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Aim_High — Fri, 23 Aug 2019 23:15:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
(For example: Aesop's The Tortoise and the Hare story.)
The credit card space has seen a few changes since Aesop's day!

IMO, planning to keep a card long term is not the right approach

Lmao .... that was a good one. Yes, it has had a "few" changes!!!

You and I have very different approaches to the market.

I don't begrudge yours but don't say planning to keep a card is "not the right approach."

To me, it's much smarter than expecting NOT to keep cards long term.

Allow me to explain why.

I love good SUBs and have no quarrel with chasing them within reason.

However, for me, I won't apply for cards for SUBs alone.

There has to be some other purpose or need a card will serve.

I don't want to be constantly applying for new cards.

So SUBs are only one consideration when I evaluate a card.
I think applying for SUBs for cards I don't need is like throwing

away a valuable HP that I might want or need to use somewhere else.

I don't give my HPs away lightly.

And when you said ...

"benefits MAY get nerfed; new competitor MAY takeover: needs MAY change"

I would not only agree with that but would change it to read

"benefits WILL get nerfed; new competitor WILL takeover; needs WILL change."

I've had credit for over 35 years and that is one thing I've brought up on these forums before is to emphasize the amount of change I've seen in the credit card market. However, that doesn't make every card completely obsolete over time. I have four cards that are between 19 and 26 years old and another that is over 10 years old. All five of them have been PC'd into newer products to keep them more current. But they are still quite useful products.

I value those long-time cards too, as much if not more than the hot-shot latest cards that I can lay my hands on that offer some additional benefits or cash-back, because they offer me something I can't buy or apply for anywhere: an anchor to my credit report age that supports my AAoA and long-term stability. That is priceless and not worth a SUB or cash back or benefit of any kind.

So whenever I apply for a card, I'm already thinking about its' long term value to me in the grand scheme of things.

And to me, that is simply smart credit management.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

BeEasyMark — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:22:05 GMT

Thank you @Aim_High @DB2019 @TheBoondocks @K-in-Boston !

Looks like I have to calculate if I can earn more with MR or UR from my travel/dining: leanding towards AMEX Platinum and PRG.

And then choose which card I can benefit most from for the random things, whether it be a good cashback card or AMEX BCP.

Honestly, my Amazon purchases aren't worth mentioning - I can really go to the supermarket for 95% of what I buy on Amazon and put that on either an AMEX PRG or BCP.

Looks like for Uber, CSR 3X or Apple Card 3% cashback? My spending on Uber doesn't make sense to rely on a yearly credit from my AMEX Platinum, I use way more than $15 a month.

Now my real dilemna is my UberEats/Postmates/DoorDash/GrubHub spending. I use Postmates the most but maybe I can choose a different service if AMEX PRG can get 4X on it (I think GrubHub) Apple Card can get 3% back on UberEats.

So it looks like I might go for a AMEX Platinum/PRG/BCP/Apple Card combo. Sound right? Maybe a CSR for backup when certain places don't take AMEX? Also the Priority Pass for AMEX doesn't allow for PP restaurants anymore. I think this covers most of my spending.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:10:18 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
Thank you @Aim_High @DB2019 @TheBoondocks @K-in-Boston !

Looks like I have to calculate if I can earn more with MR or UR from my travel/dining: leanding towards AMEX Platinum and PRG.

And then choose which card I can benefit most from for the random things, whether it be a good cashback card or AMEX BCP.

Honestly, my Amazon purchases aren't worth mentioning - I can really go to the supermarket for 95% of what I buy on Amazon and put that on either an AMEX PRG or BCP.

Looks like for Uber, CSR 3X or Apple Card 3% cashback? My spending on Uber doesn't make sense to rely on a yearly credit from my AMEX Platinum, I use way more than $15 a month.

Now my real dilemna is my UberEats/Postmates/DoorDash/GrubHub spending. I use Postmates the most but maybe I can choose a different service if AMEX PRG can get 4X on it (I think GrubHub) Apple Card can get 3% back on UberEats.

So it looks like I might go for a AMEX Platinum/PRG/BCP/Apple Card combo. Sound right? Maybe a CSR for backup when certain places don't take AMEX? Also the Priority Pass for AMEX doesn't allow for PP restaurants anymore. I think this covers most of my spending.

Be sure to get the 50K /$2K SUB on Gold. Yes, you get 4X on Grub Hub and also a $10/MO credit for Grub Hub.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:19:46 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:

So whenever I apply for a card, I'm already thinking about its' long term value to me in the grand scheme of things.

And to me, that is simply smart credit management.

I realize we are drifting from the topic but....

There are certainly pros and cons to both approaches (and I have the added advantage of not feeling any need to practice what I preach!)

I got my first card in 1978 and while I have three Amex cards backdated to 1987 my oldest card is really from 1999, and most are much newer. But with a good thick file, HPs are really less important, unless you are applying much too often.

But, what I really do: I don't chase SUBs unless they are big (e.g the CSR 100K UR), as I don't get that excited by say $200 of "free money" So I do get cards that fulfil a need today (e.g Altitude for mobile spend in UK, PPMC for 2% with no FTF) but I am more than willing to replace any card with a better one soon, so I don't think of any card as a keeper. In many cases, it's not that coherent an approach as chasing SUBs will often provide more value, but that's what [not allowed] is for....

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

BeEasyMark — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 01:22:48 GMT

Actually, looks like the BCP gives 3% back on transit apps including Uber/Lyft. Does away with me thinking about the Apple Card at all.

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 06:03:15 GMT

@BeEasyMark wrote:
Actually, looks like the BCP gives 3% back on transit apps including Uber/Lyft. Does away with me thinking about the Apple Card at all.

Why would you consider if you have CSR that gets 3x UR which can be more valuable? For the Amex Gold, Grubhub gets me 4x on deliveries on the Gold card. Additionally, I've activated amex offers to get 5x on grubhub for the year which goes well with the $10 monthly credit.

If you read this, is there a list on which food deliveries categorize as what? Uber Eats is travel so I can use my Altitude on that, Grub Hub is restaurants, what about Postmates and Door Dash? Is Uber Eats travel because of, well, Uber?

Re: AMEX vs Chase for a LA-based traveler

Anonymous — Sat, 24 Aug 2019 13:17:36 GMT

Hello,

Sounds like you and I have very very similar dining spend, and it also sounds like your non-airport travel is similar to mine as well. Please note, I don't live in LA or travel international, but I think this is still helpful.

I use Grubhub 4-5 nights a week minimum, so the Amex Gold made sense there. I also have the one additional MR offer through Grubhub through the end of the year. So I'm getting 5MR per dollar on all those orders. Grubhub covers just about every restaurant Uber eats does here, so it works out well. I also never have to think about the dining credit, it's just used.

My next highest spend is Uber and various forms of public transit. I am currently using my Amex EveryDay for such things, but in the next six months to a year may be looking for a card that does better in this area. This is where my conundrum comes in.

I also do not find the Platinum's Uber credit that impressive if you Uber a lot. $15 a month in a city sometimes doesn't cover half an Uber ride depending on the circumstance. Sure, it's like the Golds dining credit, and I know I'd easily use the whole thing. But the CSRs $300 travel credit would also trigger at any time on a lot of my travel, be it Uber or some of the public transit I use. And that's an extra $100 with a lot less restrictions.

Here's the point I make. It sounds like you'd make out well on Amex Gold for food so long as you switched to a delivery service that codes as restaurant, just as I do. But I think you need to ask what value you can get out of the Platinum. I think you need to value the lounge access and other perks highly, even if you will use the Uber and Airline credits. To me, if you can transfer MRs that make sense and are more valuable, Gold/Platinum combo makes sense. But if you can transfer UR for that same value or more, life may just be easier with the CSR and a FU for non-category. (and you could keep using your Uber eats as it'd be travel).

I've never been able to make the Platinum worth it for myself. I'm sticking with MR this year because the transfers work well for me and I have a lower fee on my Gold. But I've done the math, and when the fee on the Gold goes up for me the year after, CSR/FU may work out better for me if I'm willing to swap some transfer partners, simply for CSRs broad travel category and the fact I don't have a real travel category right now.

Either way, I've done the math for myself and they both come out close in value depending on how you're going to transfer. I think on a lot of points cards, transfer partners and the partners you have status with largely effect the value of the card for you, which people seem to overlook too often.