topic Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals in Credit Cards

Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 04:54:04 GMT

Thought I would post this as a datapoint as there are commonly questions about amex SP pre-approvals and about them being relationship based. Cliff's notes at the end.

Quick background: burned amex for $11k about 20 years ago on a Gold charge, never paid back. I was on the blacklist and didn't bother applying until 10/2018. Got approved with a 641 EX for a $1000 Delta Gold. Technically, I PIF, but I didnt pay attention to what was reported as I was not looking to apply for anything.

Because of the charge off, my starting limit, and the datapoints here, I knew that I was barely approved and amex would be keeping me on a short leash for a while. Datapoints say at least a year, maybe 2 or more. There were even some that had people not being able to apply for a second card, ever, because of the severity of the delinquency and mine was worse than any of theirs.

My score climbed into the high 670s, but I was not able to get a CLI or pre-approval. I even tried cold apping for a Hilton and was denied. I received no pre-approvals ever. I had moved almost all of my spend to them. About $2-3k a month with 60+ transactions, never paying interest. When I hit my 1 year mark, I tried once more for a CLI and when denied, decided to wait another 6 months before trying again. In the meantime, the frustration made me start to move spend off the card.

During the holidays, almost all of my cards reported 90%+ utilization and my score dropped to a low of 610. After the holidays, I paid them down to 30% bringing my score back up. Because I have a few trips planned this year, I was planning to upgrade to Delta Platinum and apply for a Platinum charge as well as 1 or 2 other cards for hotels. I was holding off as long as I could, but was running out of time. A referral fell in my lap and I pulled the trigger despite still not having any pre-approvals.

Yesterday was approved for the Delta Platinum for $1400. Later in the day, I got a referral for the Gold charge. Cold apped again. Approved, both with SUBs, gold got POT. Found out they used an old SP, 626 EX (currently 677). Today I was curious and looking at the recommended cards and now, I'm pre-approved for all of them. Not sure what the trigger was. Maybe the referral? Maybe who the referral was from, as they tend to spend quite a bit with them? I checked for pre-approvals every few days, which people say we shouldn't do, trying to use it as a gauge for if I was gaining any ground with amex. I would try a second revolver to test, but don't think I can meet the spend for another SUB in the 3-4 months. Found it to be interesting. Score was way below the lowest approval I've seen and don't understand how all of a sudden, I'm pre-approved for all cards. It would seem that they most definitely are relationship focused as I would normally not be able to get approved with a score that low. Having pre-approvals on all also makes me feel like they've forgiven the chargeoff. Only time will tell. I'm still going to wait until March to apply for a CLI.

Curious if this is pretty standard, or if this is another outlier to notch on my belt. If you want more datapoints from me, let me know.

CLIFF'S NOTES

- burned amex for $11k and never paid back

- 10/2018 barely approved for Delta Gold

- no CLIs, pre-approvals, or app approvals for over a year

- didn't know score on file was 626 EX and cold app for Delta Platinum and Gold Charge. Both approved

- next day I'm pre-approved for all cards.

- SP score on file is still 626 EX

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

dogmeat — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 06:56:44 GMT

Congrats, that's gotta feel good. It sounds like you have a Delta Gold and Delta Plat now? Have you considered trying for a CLI on the Delta Gold since you got the pre-approvals (assuming you are 90+ days from last denial)? You could get that bumped to 3k now, then if you want to, get 2k of that moved to your Delta Plat, if that's the card you expect to grow, and have a 3400 CL for your next 3x CLI attempt.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:09:42 GMT

@dogmeat wrote:
Congrats, that's gotta feel good. It sounds like you have a Delta Gold and Delta Plat now? Have you considered trying for a CLI on the Delta Gold since you got the pre-approvals (assuming you are 90+ days from last denial)? You could get that bumped to 3k now, then if you want to, get 2k of that moved to your Delta Plat, if that's the card you expect to grow, and have a 3400 CL for your next 3x CLI attempt.

Since the CLI is account based and not card, I can just request it on the Platinum. Technically, I can request it now if I wanted to even though my Platinum isn't here yet.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

FinStar — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:12:42 GMT

I think the pre-approvals are a good sign whereas before they weren't as visible for a year. One thing to consider, though, is their long term growth potential, especially based upon the approved SLs. Nonetheless, 2 approvals.

So, as you mentioned, the true tests will be whether they allow both of these revolvers to grow, and if so, to what extent or whether they will allow any CL reallocations.

If both of those bear no fruit, it would mean that 'internally' they haven't forgotten, but can still allow approving other CCs.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Mv350 — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:16:39 GMT

Congrats on the approvals, progress is better than nothing!

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:47:17 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
I think the pre-approvals are a good sign whereas before they weren't as visible for a year. One thing to consider, though, is their long term growth potential, especially based upon the approved SLs. Nonetheless, 2 approvals.

So, as you mentioned, the true tests will be whether they allow both of these revolvers to grow, and if so, to what extent or whether they will allow any CL reallocations.

If both of those bear no fruit, it would mean that 'internally' they haven't forgotten, but can still allow approving other CCs.

I know they won't ever forget, but yes, the growth is questionable. For my spend I would ideally need a $10k limit to keep utilization in check. It would also be nice to only have to pay once a month versus 3-4.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

K-in-Boston — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 07:49:51 GMT

It's a very interesting datapoint (actually several of them) and thanks for sharing with the community. Using the aged scores is so weird but not unusual with Amex from what I've read here. It's interesting because that's the lowest score I've seen for a Delta Platinum approval (I know it's not exactly the kind of honor you want, but an interesting DP nonetheless) and among the lowest for the Gold Card. (If anyone has any Delta Platinum (not Gold) approvals in the low 600s I'd be interested to see them linked.)

The referral twist is an interesting one, but I'm not sure it's anything more than coincidence. I'm a rather hefty Amex spender (not as much as I was in 2017-2018, and I'm not at all competing with the Diamond MQD Waiver people, but certainly much more than the average consumer) and know that I'm personally batting a thousand with those friends, coworkers, and acquiantances that I have given referrals to. Those that shared their details later certainly had very impressive approvals (better than my own in some cases LOL) given their profiles, but Amex can also be quite generous when they want to be so I don't think in those cases it had anything to do with me. But maybe the infamous "other factors known to American Express" includes the known company you keep?

As much as the datapoints would be awesome to have, I don't think I would personally try for another revolver with Amex just yet, and probably not for another 6 months. It looks like they're really opening the door for you a bit more and I wouldn't poke the Centurion. I think your responsible use of the Gold SkyMiles card combined with the amount of time that has passed has the most to do with this. You also had some chargeoffs drop off lately; refresh my memory, were some of those on Experian?

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 08:22:20 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
It's a very interesting datapoint (actually several of them) and thanks for sharing with the community. Using the aged scores is so weird but not unusual with Amex from what I've read here. It's interesting because that's the lowest score I've seen for a Delta Platinum approval (I know it's not exactly the kind of honor you want, but an interesting DP nonetheless) and among the lowest for the Gold Card. (If anyone has any Delta Platinum (not Gold) approvals in the low 600s I'd be interested to see them linked.)

The referral twist is an interesting one, but I'm not sure it's anything more than coincidence. I'm a rather hefty Amex spender (not as much as I was in 2017-2018, and I'm not at all competing with the Diamond MQD Waiver people, but certainly much more than the average consumer) and know that I'm personally batting a thousand with those friends, coworkers, and acquiantances that I have given referrals to. Those that shared their details later certainly had very impressive approvals (better than my own in some cases LOL) given their profiles, but Amex can also be quite generous when they want to be so I don't think in those cases it had anything to do with me. But maybe the infamous "other factors known to American Express" includes the known company you keep?

As much as the datapoints would be awesome to have, I don't think I would personally try for another revolver with Amex just yet, and probably not for another 6 months. It looks like they're really opening the door for you a bit more and I wouldn't poke the Centurion. I think your responsible use of the Gold SkyMiles card combined with the amount of time that has passed has the most to do with this. You also had some chargeoffs drop off lately; refresh my memory, were some of those on Experian?

The score has to be from some time in November or December. I don't remember when I looked at my score last, but it was in early November. This brings up a few interesting things. First was the use of an older score when my statement had already cut this month (think it was the 15th). Second, the approvals with such a low score. And third, why approve me now when all of my other denials were because the score was too low? My score hasn't been this low since the middle of 2018. As for the distinction, I'm pretty sure I've already had it with things like getting approved for the PayPal, with a limit larger than normal, with a 595. Lastly, with it being one of the lowest scores you've seen for approval of those cards, it must be making you scratch your head that I'm pre-approved for the Platinum, bonvoy, and Aspire. I can't check the reserve, but I would assume I'm pre-approved for that as well.

I wouldn't put it past a lender to make decisions based on who referred someone. I'm sure it's just coincidence, but maybe it's not. I had just checked for a pre-approval before pulling the trigger and there wasn't one. Maybe there was a system issue that wasn't updating info correctly, but was rectified when the app was submitted? Possibly a new SP was done when I apped? I'd have to pull my report and check. A new SP being done would explain quite a bit. Except for why the FICO provided is still showing 626.

I know I should wait, but I've been in the doghouse for so long, I feel like I need to capitalize in case it's a mistake. That being said, I just don't think I can meet the spend on another SUB making it a wasted opportunity. As for the collections, if they used an old pull, they're still there, just with a lower balance. If they pulled a new report, 1 would be gone. The other still isn't showing settled, though it should actually be gone.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

CreditInspired — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 11:05:40 GMT

Congrats on your huge successes Brian. I do side with KiB about waiting 6 mos but my reasoning is slightly different—you just might snag a larger SL. Just some food for thought.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

AverageJoesCredit — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 11:48:50 GMT

Grats on getting pre approvals. Ive never gotten them nor will lol. Im probably wrong but i honestly dont think a referral has much to do with someone being granted credit from Amex. I believe your ones credit profile determines if you get credit not on who you might know. Then again im just the average one so i dont really know any VIPs

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

M_Smart007 — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:36:18 GMT

OP, it usually gets better after several drinks, at least on the reading side. SUB's should be easy to hit if you purchase a Dog fence.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

soxfaininfl — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 16:11:30 GMT

Congratulations on your approval! Great write up. Thank you for sharing! This was very informative. I wonder how they will treat me once I pay them back in 2 years? They were IIB for 2,300 back on 12/2016. I plan to pay back what I owe when my BK is 5 years old.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

jbestman007 — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 19:47:16 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

Yesterday was approved for the Delta Platinum for $1400. Later in the day, I got a referral for the Gold charge. Cold apped again. Approved, both with SUBs, gold got POT. Found out they used an old SP, 626 EX (currently 677). Today I was curious and looking at the recommended cards and now, I'm pre-approved for all of them. Not sure what the trigger was. Maybe the referral? Maybe who the referral was from, as they tend to spend quite a bit with them? I checked for pre-approvals every few days, which people say we shouldn't do, trying to use it as a gauge for if I was gaining any ground with amex. I would try a second revolver to test, but don't think I can meet the spend for another SUB in the 3-4 months. Found it to be interesting. Score was way below the lowest approval I've seen and don't understand how all of a sudden, I'm pre-approved for all cards. It would seem that they most definitely are relationship focused as I would normally not be able to get approved with a score that low. Having pre-approvals on all also makes me feel like they've forgiven the chargeoff. Only time will tell. I'm still going to wait until March to apply for a CLI.

I don't believe it has anything to do with referrals. I believe you were approved for the cards because of the positive relationship you have built with Amex in the year+ of having your card. That more than anything else is why you were approved for another card. Your low score is the likely reason your SL was limited to $1400.

To understand why you are now showing preapproved for all the cards, you have to understand how Amex works. Or how I have been made to understand they work. Amex tentatively let you back in. Monitoring the "financial information known to us", Amex built an internal file on you. I bet they finally increased your internal limit. When you applied for that card, the system checked your internal limit and determined you had room for more credit, however, your score meant, they had to put you on a "credit step", starting with $1400. Still, the system now knows you have a credit ceiling of, let's say, $5000. So, you still have room for $2600. That amount can be applied to a new card so you are now seeing all the cards as preapproved. If you applied for a new revolver, you will likely get a card with a starting limit of $2000 and all the preapprovals would disappear because you have hit your ceiling. The remaining $600 is to account for the charge card since it is based on usage and has no hard limit. I may be off with the numbers but you get the idea.

Chase is very different in this regard. Chase will determine your SL ceiling based on your profile and give you the full amount. No games. The downside is, by treating you as an adult, they demand that you do not play games with them. If you do, they will shut you down. As they should.

Again. Just my opinion. I may be completely off and it might indeed be because of the referrals but I highly doubt it.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Gunnerboy — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:03:40 GMT

Congrats Brian!! So, are you keeping the Delta Gold?

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:36:35 GMT

@jbestman007 wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

Yesterday was approved for the Delta Platinum for $1400. Later in the day, I got a referral for the Gold charge. Cold apped again. Approved, both with SUBs, gold got POT. Found out they used an old SP, 626 EX (currently 677). Today I was curious and looking at the recommended cards and now, I'm pre-approved for all of them. Not sure what the trigger was. Maybe the referral? Maybe who the referral was from, as they tend to spend quite a bit with them? I checked for pre-approvals every few days, which people say we shouldn't do, trying to use it as a gauge for if I was gaining any ground with amex. I would try a second revolver to test, but don't think I can meet the spend for another SUB in the 3-4 months. Found it to be interesting. Score was way below the lowest approval I've seen and don't understand how all of a sudden, I'm pre-approved for all cards. It would seem that they most definitely are relationship focused as I would normally not be able to get approved with a score that low. Having pre-approvals on all also makes me feel like they've forgiven the chargeoff. Only time will tell. I'm still going to wait until March to apply for a CLI.

I don't believe it has anything to do with referrals. I believe you were approved for the cards because of the positive relationship you have built with Amex in the year+ of having your card. That more than anything else is why you were approved for another card. Your low score is the likely reason your SL was limited to $1400.

To understand why you are now showing preapproved for all the cards, you have to understand how Amex works. Or how I have been made to understand they work. Amex tentatively let you back in. Monitoring the "financial information known to us", Amex built an internal file on you. I bet they finally increased your internal limit. When you applied for that card, the system checked your internal limit and determined you had room for more credit, however, your score meant, they had to put you on a "credit step", starting with $1400. Still, the system now knows you have a credit ceiling of, let's say, $5000. So, you still have room for $2600. That amount can be applied to a new card so you are now seeing all the cards as preapproved. If you applied for a new revolver, you will likely get a card with a starting limit of $2000 and all the preapprovals would disappear because you have hit your ceiling. The remaining $600 is to account for the charge card since it is based on usage and has no hard limit. I may be off with the numbers but you get the idea.

Chase is very different in this regard. Chase will determine your SL ceiling based on your profile and give you the full amount. No games. The downside is, by treating you as an adult, they demand that you do not play games with them. If you do, they will shut you down. As they should.

Again. Just my opinion. I may be completely off and it might indeed be because of the referrals but I highly doubt it.

Is this a theory, or do you have datapoints to back it up? It seems very reasonable that this is the case and would take a lot of mystery out of it.

Re: Amex Surprise SP Pre-approvals

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:38:12 GMT

@Gunnerboy wrote:
Congrats Brian!! So, are you keeping the Delta Gold?

Thanks, bud. I will keep it for now as the AF doesn't hit until October or November. I may downgrade it to blue to keep the history going. I may also fish for a retention offer or close it.