topic Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention in Credit Cards

Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 17:59:43 GMT

I'd welcome any thoughts on where I might push a little harder for retention, what I might downgrade, or perhaps where I shouldn't push at present.

6 open cards:

Schwab Platinum: 2016 approval, no PCs. About $10k-$15k of annual spend, which I expect to stay roughly constant. I use the credits pretty efficiently (Uber, airline extras, Schwab, Saks) as well as the lounge access. I have never sought a retention offer on it. I know it's a popular card to seek retention on and that I could replace it with a regular Platinum, but I'm a little afraid that some curt rep may close the account if I call for retention and there's no offer available...especially considering my limited spend. I may be too cautious here.

BBP: 2018 Approval, no PCs. I hit the $50k cap in both calendar 2018 and 2019. Reaching it again in 2020 is likely. No AF.

Delta Platinum: June 2019 approval. $7k spend thus far with little additional spend likely. A similar situation as with Schwab, where the card benefits exceed the AF and I'm a little reluctant to push for retention, even with the increased $250 AF hitting around July 2020.

BCP: 2014 approval as BCE. No SUB because I used an invalid link. Spend most years under $5k. Upgraded in July 2019 for $250. $10k spend since upgrade, mostly no-fee Plan It stuff. Plan to downgrade around November or December 2020 for a partial AF refund after having kept BCP for about 16-17 months.

ED: 2015 approval as EDP, downgraded after a year. Maybe $25k spend in the first year as EDP, but ~$2k total in the last two years.

Bonvoy Brilliant: Feb 2017 approval as SPG. Sought retention in March 2018 and got 7k "old" SPG points IIRC. September 2018 brought a targeted 100k/$5k "new" points upgrade offer to SPG Luxury, as well as a targeted 10k/$3k "new" ongoing spend offer. Maybe $10k spend in 2017 and $12k in 2018. Negligible 2019 spend other than one hotel stay for the $300 credit (annual night was used on a separate stay). I'm planning on downgrading to the no-AF Bonvoy card in March 2020 when the next AF hits. Or I might ask for a retention offer despite negligible spend. A lot of my travel is to visit relatives (no hotel needed, or no Marriott nearby in some remote areas) and I have a lot of hotel points in general...so it seems a little wasteful to pay an AF as my points depreciate.

One closed Amex card:

Got PRG in 2014, sought retention unsuccessfully in 2015. Spend was roughly $10k for the first year, but I kept the card and paid the 2015 AF to double-dip on the then-new $100 airfare extras credit for 2015/2016. Closed in 2016.

General thoughts? Am I crazy to be so cautious about Schwab and Delta while being fairly aggressive about BCP and Brilliant?

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

simplynoir — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:15:40 GMT

Don't let them touch the Schwab card if you value the cashout option for the card; if you do decide to test your luck I'd make sure to tell agent not to do anything to the card but thinking about closing it & would like to know if there are any options available. I'd hit the Delta Plat because I'm assuming they'll be more receptive with the AF increase incoming there. Bonvoy it depends on what the offer is; if you feel your points are depreciating and you get a points retention offer then maybe consider closing it. BCP I would try to see if anything can be had keeping it as is as opposed to downgrading but dunno if people get offers for doing this

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Revelate — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:45:29 GMT

Isn't this money in the margins for you?

SUB bonuses I understand, retention bonuses I don't as other than a AF's being waived they generally don't pay for themselves... and most of the AFs I've seen waived it would cost me more time to plead my case than the money is worth.

I don't screw with accounts or lenders I want to keep because they're worth more to me than any retention bonus; I'm a little concerned actually about Amex currently when I should up and switch from Marriot to Hilton anyway and everything is not through them (hi Chase) and the BBP and Schwab Plat really make more sense I suspect depending how travel reimbursement shakes out for me. Already at max exposure and too many accounts, it's going to be let's make a deal probably after talking a CSR involving closing some, PCing what I can, and opening others and letting SUB's land where they will if any.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:43:17 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
Don't let them touch the Schwab card if you value the cashout option for the card; if you do decide to test your luck I'd make sure to tell agent not to do anything to the card but thinking about closing it & would like to know if there are any options available. I'd hit the Delta Plat because I'm assuming they'll be more receptive with the AF increase incoming there. Bonvoy it depends on what the offer is; if you feel your points are depreciating and you get a points retention offer then maybe consider closing it. BCP I would try to see if anything can be had keeping it as is as opposed to downgrading but dunno if people get offers for doing this

Thus far I've followed the practice of never calling unless I'm open to the possibility of closure (though I might still slightly prefer to keep the card even without an offer). I'd have to pick my wording very carefully with Schwab..."I'm thinking about closing it, but please don't actually close it" might lack credibility.

Delta...maybe. I wasn't happy about the AF hike. And I do use miles more quickly than hotel points.

With BCP I'm willing to ask for retention and risk closure, but I'm a little concerned that a retention offer there might make an offer on another card harder, if I'm limited at all on the frequency of overall retention as well as account-specific retention. $95 is less than $250/$450/$550 so that may limit how great a BCP offer can possibly be. Of course, that won't hit again until around August or September...after any retention on Marriott, Schwab, or Delta has happened or not happened.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:45:53 GMT

@Revelate wrote:
Isn't this money in the margins for you?

SUB bonuses I understand, retention bonuses I don't as other than a AF being waived they generally don't pay for themselves... and most of the AF's I've seen waived it would cost me more time to plead my case than the money is worth.

I don't screw with accounts or lenders I want to keep because they're worth more to me than any retention bonus; I'm a little actually concerned about Amex currently when I should up and switch from Marriot to Hilton anyway and everything is through them and the BBP and Schwab Plat really make more sense I suspect depending how travel reimbursement shakes out for me. Already at max exposure and too many accounts, it's going to be let's make a deal probably after talking a CSR involving closing some, PCing what I can, and opening others and letting SUB's land where they will if any.

It's not a huge amount of money. I mostly sort of wonder if I'm leaving something on the table by never even asking on my Schwab.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

CaptJOB — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:57:29 GMT

Not sure if I'm an outlier here but when I call in for retention bonuses I don't even suggest that I'm going to close the card just say it would incentivize me to spend more there instead of somewhere else(did this with the Gold a few months ago). The rep didn't seem too shaken up by that. I think I had about 18k in the card for the year at that point.

I'm currently planning a big purchase and am wondering best strategy for Platinum to get a good retention offer(if they'll offer one since I accepted the other). Not sure if I should make the purchase to inflate spend and then call or do it before.

Anyhow I think with high enough spend most reps will just go through the talking points but still let you have whatever offer is showing up on their computer without needing to threaten closing the card.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Caught750 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:58:24 GMT

I called and simply asked “hey my Gold card is coming up on its anniversary and I wondered if there may be any offers”. She provided me with a cash one and a points one. I declined at that time and she asked if I wanted to keep the card. I said I most certainly DID want to KEEP it and she said that she understood.

I did not accept as I want the Delta Plat in a few months and I’d gotten pop ups in the past. Hoping lots of spend will keep that from showing again.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 19:11:49 GMT

I could ask without hinting at closure. It might not stop a particularly overzealous rep, though.

No Amex apps on the horizon except for a possible opportunistic 100k Platinum offer (and those tend to be hard enough to get as it is)...or a second BBP (for which the SUB tends to be little or nothing, anyway). So missing out on other Amex SUBs is not really a concern at present.

*I've never gotten the no-bonus pop-up...except for something similar in 2014 when my BCE application went through a link intended for new customers only.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 19:10:15 GMT

@CaptJOB wrote:
Not sure if I'm an outlier here but when I call in for retention bonuses I don't even suggest that I'm going to close the card just say it would incentivize me to spend more there instead of somewhere else(did this with the Gold a few months ago). The rep didn't seem too shaken up by that. I think I had about 18k in the card for the year at that point.

I'm currently planning a big purchase and am wondering best strategy for Platinum to get a good retention offer(if they'll offer one since I accepted the other). Not sure if I should make the purchase to inflate spend and then call or do it before.

Anyhow I think with high enough spend most reps will just go through the talking points but still let you have whatever offer is showing up on their computer without needing to threaten closing the card.

It's hard to say how much my total Amex spend helps when, at least outside of bonuses and Plan It promotions, a majority of it is on BBP.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Aim_High — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:19:03 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
I'd welcome any thoughts on where I might push a little harder for retention, what I might downgrade, or perhaps where I shouldn't push at present.

6 open cards:

Schwab Platinum: $10k-$15k of annual spend, which I expect to stay roughly constant.

BBP: hit the $50k cap in both calendar 2018 and 2019. Reaching it again in 2020 is likely.

Delta Platinum: card benefits exceed the AF

BCP: Spend most years under $5k. Plan to downgrade around November or December 2020

ED: ~$2k total in the last two years.

Bonvoy Brilliant: Negligible 2019 spend, planning on downgrading to the no-AF Bonvoy card in March 2020 when the next AF hits. Or I might ask for a retention offer despite negligible spend. A lot of my travel is to visit relatives (no hotel needed, or no Marriott nearby

You've got a lot of AMEX cards and it sounds like they aren't all serving you well at the moment.

I've seen all your postings about the Schwab Platinum on the forums, not just this thread. You value this card too much to even hint at threatening to close it, and pushing for a retention offer on a card you really want to keep seems unwise. If the card fits you, makes sense, and you're getting good value from it, I wouldn't poke the bear.

Ditto on BBP and Delta Platinum. Sounds like you're getting good use and value. If there was a card I (might) ask for retention on, it would be the Delta Platinum.

Honestly, your spend and discussion on the BCP, ED, and Marriott cards makes me question whether you should even keep any of these open as opposed to just downgrading to no-AF. Compared to your other spend, $2K and $5K is nothing. And the dwindling appeal of Marriott to you in 2019 also sounds questionable for even keeping the no-AF version. I wouldn't bother on retention games with Marriott unless you plan to stay there much more often. You can keep your Marriott Bonvoy membership open and just use another premium travel card to pay for rooms when you stay there.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Aim_High — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:16:55 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
I've followed the practice of never calling unless I'm open to the possibility of closure ... I'd have to pick my wording very carefully with Schwab..."I'm thinking about closing it, but please don't actually close it" might lack credibility.

That made me laugh.

Exactly.

You have no negotiating leverage if you care if it's

closed and especially if you let them know that.

That's like saying, give me a retention offer or I'm

going to hit myself in the head with this baggette!!

I really mean it!!

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:24:35 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
Honestly, your spend and discussion on the BCP, ED, and Marriott cards makes me question whether you should even keep any of these open as opposed to just downgrading to no-AF. Compared to your other spend, $2K and $5K is nothing. And the dwindling appeal of Marriott to you in 2019 also sounds questionable for even keeping the no-AF version. I wouldn't bother on retention games with Marriott unless you plan to stay there much more often. You can keep your Marriott Bonvoy membership open and just use another premium travel card to pay for rooms when you stay there.

A no-AF Marriott card would be nice to at least keep my points active if I focus on using up Hyatt and IHG points. Marriott did away with their online shopping portal so I don't see a way to stay active other than actual stays or wastefully buying/transferring points.

ED and BCE/BCP have occasionally gotten a nice offer, but they've mostly stayed around for AAoA. I'm logging into the Amex site often, anyway, so they're just a few clicks away. And I can call the Platinum CSRs with any problems on them.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 20:32:48 GMT

Maybe I should just downgrade my Brilliant now. I upgraded around Sept 2018 so I've had it for more than a year. Maybe no need to even wait for the next full AF to hit around March. I assume I could even get one or two months of AF refunded. If I waited, they'd likely just offer me more Bonvoy points, and with all the points I have the real value of them to me would probably just be breaking even.

With it (and for BCP later this year) I can just say I took their offers to try the AF/higher-AF versions, that they aren't really working for me, and I'd like to PC to no-AF versions.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 21:15:05 GMT

For Bonvoy, would I likely be safe from the wrath of the RAT if I paid a four-month partial AF ($150) when upgrading, then the regular $450, and only got a one or two-month AF refund ($37.50 or $75) when downgrading?

I'd have had the card for more than 12 months and paid more than a year's AF...just not for a complete "unbroken cycle" of the AF.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Aim_High — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 21:47:42 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
Honestly, your spend and discussion on the BCP, ED, and Marriott cards makes me question whether you should even keep any of these open as opposed to just downgrading to no-AF ... the dwindling appeal of Marriott to you in 2019 also sounds questionable for even keeping the no-AF version. I wouldn't bother on retention games with Marriott unless you plan to stay there much more often. You can keep your Marriott Bonvoy membership open and just use another premium travel card to pay for rooms when you stay there.
A no-AF Marriott card would be nice to at least keep my points active if I focus on using up Hyatt and IHG points. Marriott did away with their online shopping portal so I don't see a way to stay active other than actual stays or wastefully buying/transferring points.

You keep your points as long as you either earn or redeem points once every 24 months. Do you never stay at Marriotts any longer? They have a lot of different brand hotels now that they merged with SPG. I have the Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless but my employer pays directly for my rooms. I mainly use it now for incidentals and meals. Of course, the $800 SUB was nice. But I've considered whether I might just eventually cancel it and keep my Marriott Bonvoy membership active, using my CSR for hotel meals and such.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 21:56:39 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
Honestly, your spend and discussion on the BCP, ED, and Marriott cards makes me question whether you should even keep any of these open as opposed to just downgrading to no-AF ... the dwindling appeal of Marriott to you in 2019 also sounds questionable for even keeping the no-AF version. I wouldn't bother on retention games with Marriott unless you plan to stay there much more often. You can keep your Marriott Bonvoy membership open and just use another premium travel card to pay for rooms when you stay there.
A no-AF Marriott card would be nice to at least keep my points active if I focus on using up Hyatt and IHG points. Marriott did away with their online shopping portal so I don't see a way to stay active other than actual stays or wastefully buying/transferring points.
You keep your points as long as you either earn or redeem points once every 24 months. Do you never stay at Marriotts any longer? They have a lot of different brand hotels now that they merged with SPG. I have the Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless but my employer pays directly for my rooms. I mainly use it now for incidentals and meals. Of course, the $800 SUB was nice. But I've considered whether I might just eventually cancel it and keep my Marriott Bonvoy membership active, using my CSR for hotel meals and such.

I will probably stay at one more often than that. It's more a matter that I don't want to needlessly throw away a tool that keeps them active, in the not-impossible event I don't...and it's a tool I already have that, downgraded, would cost me nothing and would be easy to keep an eye on.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Revelate — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 22:21:51 GMT

Let me know how that downgrade goes.

I'm going to have to do some "aw shucks" talking around mine (pretty sure I can't PC between cobrands though I haven't searched the forum for full details yet) and so I'm going to have to do something similar but I got mine in April of last year so I'm not even at a year yet. I wouldn't mind if they clawed back the points, if I have to futz with them to keep them active meh.

Oh look Zync upgrade offer #2: SQUIRREL!

Earn 60,000 points after you use your new Card to make $5,000 in purchases in the first 3 months. Terms apply. Plus, get access to exclusive benefits:

5X points on flights booked directly with airlines.
5X points on prepaid hotels booked on amextravel.com.
Up to $200 in Uber Cash per year.

Anyway looking up the spend on that Marriot card: 8K last year, not as bad as I thought to be fair but I suspect not enough to keep Amex happy nor enough to justify my keeping the card switching loyalty programs.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Revelate — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 00:45:08 GMT

Hrm, not available. F it in for a penny and in for a pound and while the idea of refinancing my mortgage is nice how long am I going to really be in this condo anyway and if I need to clear up DTI (unlikely) I can refi then.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 01:08:05 GMT

I'd think you might have a case for the Delta, being the changes and AF hike. So they likely expect a few call on this one anyways.

Trouble is your spend isn't that high comapred to others, so they may not offer a retention.

But that's the one I would choose.

Re: Overall Amex picture...upgrades, downgrades, retention

wasCB14 — Sat, 01 Feb 2020 01:19:06 GMT

Unfortunately the Delta Plan It promo didn't arrive until the card was already about 5 months old. I had a lot of spend at the 2-3 month mark, but it was BCP with the financing promo then.