topic Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question in Credit Cards

AMEX Cashback + Payment question

dlister70 — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 00:31:13 GMT

My AMEX Blue Cash Everyday statement balance was $50. I used $30 in cashback and made a payment of $20. Now my balance is zero, and my available credit is the full amount. However, it still shows a remaining statement balance of $30. I asked on AMEX chat and they said that I still need to pay $30 more to avoid interest.

I'm aware of the cashback not counting towards your minimum payment, but I thought that if you had a zero balance you didn't get any interest. He said that the statement credit would not be applied until my next statement which is why I still owe $30. But if that's true, I don't understand why my available credit is the full amount.

I'm not messing around over $30, and I'm just going to pay it to avoid interest no matter how small of an amount of interest it may be, but I'm pretty sure the rep was incorrect. Does anyone have a real world example where they were actually charged interest in a situation like this?

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:31:27 GMT

I think minimum payment for Amex is $25 which could be the reason why. When did you credit your account in relation with when statement ended?

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

dlister70 — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:45:57 GMT

Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Remedios — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 01:52:01 GMT

This was asked before, and yes, you need to make a payment.
Because your balance is zero, it will create a credit from which future charges will be subtracted.
It's best wait with redemption till you pay your minimum first (or balance) and leave enough for cashback to cover it.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 02:02:42 GMT

Most issuers require that you pay the balance in full, regardless of what credits get applied from rewards redemptions. There are exceptions--Disco explicitly allows rewards redemptions to be part of your payment, even when PIF.

The same situation applies for charges, (and worse, large purchases) that result in refunds. For instance, you make a $500 purchase 6 days before your statement cuts. It posts, then you return the merchandise. You'll get a refund back on your card usually days after a return. Now you're stuck with a $500 payment on an item you don't own. Then you have a $500 credit on the next statement and you either spend your way back to 0 or request a check.

It's just best to ignore credits when it comes to PIF and avoiding interest.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

TSlop — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 03:29:26 GMT

@dlister70 wrote:
Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.

I think that there is the problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can pay your bill with cashback. You'll have to apply cashback before the statement cuts, so then your statement would have only been $20. If you apply the cashback after a statement cuts, it will be credit on future purchases on the current billing cycle.

Admittedly, I've only ever applied my cashback before the statement cuts, so I haven't ever tried what you did.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 03:44:05 GMT

@TSlop wrote:
@dlister70 wrote:
Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.
I think that there is the problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can pay your bill with cashback. You'll have to apply cashback before the statement cuts, so then your statement would have only been $20. If you apply the cashback after a statement cuts, it will be credit on future purchases on the current billing cycle.

Admittedly, I've only ever applied my cashback before the statement cuts, so I haven't ever tried what you did.

Yes, you can apply your redemptions before the statement cuts, but that will just lower the total balance. You still have to pay that amount in full to avoid interest.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 03:59:45 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@TSlop wrote:
@dlister70 wrote:
Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.
I think that there is the problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can pay your bill with cashback. You'll have to apply cashback before the statement cuts, so then your statement would have only been $20. If you apply the cashback after a statement cuts, it will be credit on future purchases on the current billing cycle.

Admittedly, I've only ever applied my cashback before the statement cuts, so I haven't ever tried what you did.
Yes, you can apply your redemptions before the statement cuts, but that will just lower the total balance. You still have to pay that amount in full to avoid interest.

So what if you just make a payment in full and then redeem cash back and make purchases after that?

I don't really understand not being able to put cash back towards your statement. It's not a limitation I'm used to dealing with. My other cards don't always let me use it for my minimum payment (although Disco and Cap do) but they don't penalize me with interest for the amount of the credit towards my statement balance if I don't still pay the balance that was on my statement...

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Save-n-Invest — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:19:58 GMT

I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:32:55 GMT

@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.

It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Save-n-Invest — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:30:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.

I'm staying with nuts. I've never had an issue with deducting the redeemed cash back reward and remitting the balance with any other issuer. There have been many issues with BCE and BCP for me. Actually the first time I ever encountered any mental illness issues with Amex was on Blue when I spoke to the Punishment Department to convert MR to pay for a statement item. The woman yelled and screamed at me. She behaved as if I was sliding my hand into her pocket. She was pushing gift cards that would have been worthless to me.

"I KNOW YOU GO TO HOME DEPOT. I KNOW YOU DO HOME REPAIRS". I told the goofy B that I job out any work at my home. Finally she applied the credit. It was a lousy $90.xx for a cheap Cannon flatbed scanner. You would have thought I asked for her first born.

I've been taken to the woodshed here many times for not having a reverential posture toward Amex. It's just another piece of plastic in my world. If it's useful I use it. If not Amex is the last to come out of my wallet unless it's home in the SD. Both are in the SD now. I used BCE in December for an electronic purchase before the exteneded warranty was ended on 1/1/2020.

My cash back cards are issued by Chase, Citi, Discover and Cap One. No problems with them. Amex is just an overrated PITA as far as I am concerned. YMMV.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

FinStar — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:38:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.

I highly doubt it has anything to do with "scarce IT resources" and more so with how they designed the redemption platform altogether. It's definitely a quirky method, but once you know a workaround it's fairly easy to redeem without having to go through applying the cash back toward a portion of a payment. FWIW, and while others may use it differently, I've never used that method.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 22:15:38 GMT

@Save-n-Invest wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.

I'm staying with nuts. I've never had an issue with deducting the redeemed cash back reward and remitting the balance with any other issuer. There have been many issues with BCE and BCP for me. Actually the first time I ever encountered any mental illness issues with Amex was on Blue when I spoke to the Punishment Department to convert MR to pay for a statement item. The woman yelled and screamed at me. She behaved as if I was sliding my hand into her pocket. She was pushing gift cards that would have been worthless to me.

"I KNOW YOU GO TO HOME DEPOT. I KNOW YOU DO HOME REPAIRS". I told the goofy B that I job out any work at my home. Finally she applied the credit. It was a lousy $90.xx for a cheap Cannon flatbed scanner. You would have thought I asked for her first born.

I've been taken to the woodshed here many times for not having a reverential posture toward Amex. It's just another piece of plastic in my world. If it's useful I use it. If not Amex is the last to come out of my wallet unless it's home in the SD. Both are in the SD now. I used BCE in December for an electronic purchase before the exteneded warranty was ended on 1/1/2020.

My cash back cards are issued by Chase, Citi, Discover and Cap One. No problems with them. Amex is just an overrated PITA as far as I am concerned. YMMV.

I've never had an issue redeeming cash back and paying, with the understanding that they are separate entities. Outside of a large purchase that I return, the credit balance doesn't bother me. My Amex right now has a credit balance and it closes on the 8th.

If a CSR yells at you, that's not acceptable. With customer service, I haven't had any issues with that either.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 22:23:07 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with "scarce IT resources" and more so with how they designed the redemption platform altogether. It's definitely a quirky method, but once you know a workaround it's fairly easy to redeem without having to go through applying the cash back toward a portion of a payment. FWIW, and while others may use it differently, I've never used that method.

IT resources can be tied up for months or even years, depending on how lean they are. If it's not something that they want to pursue, that could be it too. A lot of projects are expensive, and if it's not important enough to spend the money, it just won't get done.

I'm still waiting for Citi to fix their payment glitch for payment immediately after the statement cuts, but it appears its low priority (developers are tied up in other projects).

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

FinStar — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 22:48:04 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with "scarce IT resources" and more so with how they designed the redemption platform altogether. It's definitely a quirky method, but once you know a workaround it's fairly easy to redeem without having to go through applying the cash back toward a portion of a payment. FWIW, and while others may use it differently, I've never used that method.
IT resources can be tied up for months or even years, depending on how lean they are. If it's not something that they want to pursue, that could be it too. A lot of projects are expensive, and if it's not important enough to spend the money, it just won't get done.

I'm still waiting for Citi to fix their payment glitch for payment immediately after the statement cuts, but it appears its low priority (developers are tied up in other projects).

That's for any company, not just FIs. I would say it's likely not a priority for them. I'm sure their respective CIOs, PMOs, product management teams, developers, etc., have other priority projects or initiatives to deal with.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 22:57:11 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Save-n-Invest wrote:
I had this nonsnse last year with Amex. It took a while and several different csr's to get it corrected. The balance was zero but they wanted more in the exact amount of the cash back redemption. Finally Amex gave into reason and I was not charged interest.

Just today I waited until the payment (less the cash back for redemption) posted before redeeming the cash back.

Amex is nuts. It's a bassakwards way of holding the cardholder hostage. Just play the game the way they want it and the exact same amount of payment + cash back redeemed will satisfy them.

Goofy outfit. My gut tell me Amex does not want to be in the cash back business but does not want to concede that business to competitors either.

Good luck with getting this resolved. It is doable.
It might be an accounting and IT issue. Their system isn't built to handle it. But it can be changed. Discover and a couple others made those changes to allow redemptions to be part of or the entire payment. Others may follow suit, but it's been around a while and you would think they'd get around to it by now. Scarce IT resources maybe.
I highly doubt it has anything to do with "scarce IT resources" and more so with how they designed the redemption platform altogether. It's definitely a quirky method, but once you know a workaround it's fairly easy to redeem without having to go through applying the cash back toward a portion of a payment. FWIW, and while others may use it differently, I've never used that method.
IT resources can be tied up for months or even years, depending on how lean they are. If it's not something that they want to pursue, that could be it too. A lot of projects are expensive, and if it's not important enough to spend the money, it just won't get done.

I'm still waiting for Citi to fix their payment glitch for payment immediately after the statement cuts, but it appears its low priority (developers are tied up in other projects).
That's for any company, not just FIs. I would say it's likely not a priority for them. I'm sure their respective CIOs, PMOs, product management teams, developers, etc., have other priority projects or initiatives to deal with.

Agreed. There's a chance they just don't want to do it too.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

TSlop — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:05:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@TSlop wrote:
@dlister70 wrote:
Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.
I think that there is the problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can pay your bill with cashback. You'll have to apply cashback before the statement cuts, so then your statement would have only been $20. If you apply the cashback after a statement cuts, it will be credit on future purchases on the current billing cycle.

Admittedly, I've only ever applied my cashback before the statement cuts, so I haven't ever tried what you did.
Yes, you can apply your redemptions before the statement cuts, but that will just lower the total balance. You still have to pay that amount in full to avoid interest.

So Amex is different than Chase and BoA? I'm pretty sure I've done this with Chase... but I literally just did this with BoA last week. I applied $33.07 cashback to my account (mid-statement) and it lowered my balance from $85.77 to $52.70. If I don't add anything else, my statement will cut and it will be for $52.70.

From what I understand from his post (why he had to still pay $30 after using cashback), the statement already cut and then he applied the $30 cashback (assuming it would go to the balance) and paid $20 towards the balance. I'm not aware of being able to pay the statement balance down with cashback, which is why he still owed $30, and the $30 from cashback is now a credit on the current statement for new purchases. If this is the case, interest would be charged on that $30 if he doesn't pay it.

My apologies if I am interpretting this incorrectly.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:22:55 GMT

@TSlop wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@TSlop wrote:
@dlister70 wrote:
Statement ended in January 24. I took the credit and made the payment on January 30. Bill is due February 19.

It says minimum payment due is $0 but that remaining statement balance is $30.
I think that there is the problem. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you can pay your bill with cashback. You'll have to apply cashback before the statement cuts, so then your statement would have only been $20. If you apply the cashback after a statement cuts, it will be credit on future purchases on the current billing cycle.

Admittedly, I've only ever applied my cashback before the statement cuts, so I haven't ever tried what you did.
Yes, you can apply your redemptions before the statement cuts, but that will just lower the total balance. You still have to pay that amount in full to avoid interest.
So Amex is different than Chase and BoA? I'm pretty sure I've done this with Chase... but I literally just did this with BoA last week. I applied $33.07 cashback to my account (mid-statement) and it lowered my balance from $85.77 to $52.70. If I don't add anything else, my statement will cut and it will be for $52.70.

From what I understand from his post (why he had to still pay $30 after using cashback), the statement already cut and then he applied the $30 cashback (assuming it would go to the balance) and paid $20 towards the balance. I'm not aware of being able to pay the statement balance down with cashback, which is why he still owed $30, and the $30 from cashback is now a credit on the current statement for new purchases. If this is the case, interest would be charged on that $30 if he doesn't pay it.

My apologies if I am interpretting this incorrectly.

No, you are correct. There are a few that allow it, most notably DISCOVER. When I go to pay my DISCOVER card, the option to use rewards to pay is right there. Apply how much of it to use, and I verify the difference will. come out of my checking account. Nice feature, but not a major deal for me.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:36:18 GMT

Based on my experience with Amex, I can apply cashback to credit my account, minimizing the balance left on my account. However, in the terms there is a minimum amount one must pay in order to redeem the credit, and what I’ve seen at least for me is $25. Therefore, if the same “rule” applies to you this could be the reason why this happened because technically only $20 was paid.

Re: AMEX Cashback + Payment question

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:56:47 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Based on my experience with Amex, I can apply cashback to credit my account, minimizing the balance left on my account. However, in the terms there is a minimum amount one must pay in order to redeem the credit, and what I’ve seen at least for me is $25. Therefore, if the same “rule” applies to you this could be the reason why this happened because technically only $20 was paid.

Agreed.

I think many people are unaware that the full minimum payment still needs to be made by you, not including the "credits".

My rule of thumb is to not dink around with small amounts under $100, especially so close to the mumimum payment.

Example! Balance is $100, you pay $50 satisfying the minimum due. Then apply the $50 credit.

I've never had an issued with statement credits, other than them taking 2-4 days to post. lol

As for balances and interest issue, perhaps applying the credit before the statment closes is best. Then PIF the remainder.

I like to use credits towards the AF, so I redeem the CB as soon as it hits.