topic Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming in Credit Cards

Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 16:15:24 GMT

Thought about heading back or mixing stays w/ Hilton. I think their points value maybe be getting closer to Hilton.

Marriott really screwed this merger up w/ SPG. Might as well either get 5x on plat using their portal, or Rockmiles MR and Rakuten/w MR and counts for stays rather than use Hilton Card or thought of going back to get Marriot Biz Card.

Well this made it clear to me that Marriott card is out.

https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/02/05/brutal-marriott-bonvoy-award-category-changes-march-4-2020-tighter-award-inventory-controls/

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 16:23:51 GMT

Yes. This reclassification on the heels of the peak pricing plan mean a lot of 2018 Cat 5 hotels are no longer available for the 35,000 point free night certificate. Sucks.

But there's still a ton of Cat 5 (and Cat 4) hotels where you can use the certificate and get WAY more value than the $95 annual fee. For example, the Renaissance Phoenix downtown is Cat 4, and I used a free night certificate on a $400 suite (after they upgraded me for free).

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 16:34:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes. This reclassification on the heels of the peak pricing plan mean a lot of 2018 Cat 5 hotels are no longer available for the 35,000 point free night certificate. Sucks.

But there's still a ton of Cat 5 (and Cat 4) hotels where you can use the certificate and get WAY more value than the $95 annual fee. For example, the Renaissance Phoenix downtown is Cat 4, and I used a free night certificate on a $400 suite (after they upgraded me for free).

Still that's just your annual certificate. The point value for other redeemptions are going up. Their whole point system is being devalued because of the Cat changes going up.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:00:51 GMT

"Marriott Rewards award pricing always was based on the volume of redemptions that the property received rather than the price itself. Hotels that receive a high number of awards are priced higher using points than what their cash rates would justify."

The opposite can occur too, but....

This and other point "adjustments" is why I don't like travel point rewards cards. By the time you store up a ton of points for future trips, something happens where you lost value. I've compared hotel prices by using rewards where my card can convert points for, and often found its more expensive to do so, based on the property.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:11:03 GMT

Well that's bit of a bummer, it already seems like everything is already Cat5 or higher. Every Marriott/Fairfield etc I've ever checked has been the 35K points per night aside form weekends. I just recently booked a stay for April in Anaheim, and it was 35K per night 45K on Friday.

I also couldn't get the free fifth night for some reason, even though I booked 6 nights. I realize it ahs to be a paid night to qualify, but I was only going to redeem for Friday and try to get one of the other days free. No go

That said, it shouldn't affect the perks with the cards, right? It's basically just an award issue, at least the free cert night offsets the AF on the Bonvoy BIZ. The category increase just means there will be less places to redeem it.

I'll give it another year and if I don't see any benefit, then I decied if it's time to cancel or not.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:16:15 GMT

FHR is great. I stayed at a Ritz club level using MR points which was less points than using Marriott points for a regular room, I also had a $100 property credit for food and drink. Two, night stay for the price of one night. IDT you can even get club level w/ Marriott point redemptions.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

K-in-Boston — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:28:35 GMT

I just booked a room that would have been $2035.32 after taxes for 85,000 points. That's 2.4 cents per point. My Hilton options were Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, and Hilton Garden Inn (3 lower-end brands) for 200,000 to 400,000 points for the same nights. I'm not a mathematician by trade, but it seems like I'm getting "slightly" better value from Marriott?

Category changes have always happened and always will as long as award stays aren't based on revenue amounts. It's in my best interest for people to leave Marriott for Hilton and others, so I'll go along and say Marriott's horrible, please move to Hilton.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 17:32:58 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I just booked a room that would have been $2035.32 after taxes for 85,000 points. That's 2.4 cents per point. My Hilton options were Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, and Hilton Garden Inn (3 lower-end brands) for 200,000 to 400,000 points for the same nights. I'm not a mathematician by trade, but it seems like I'm getting "slightly" better value from Marriott?

Category changes have always happened and always will as long as award stays aren't based on revenue amounts. It's in my best interest for people to leave Marriott for Hilton and others, so I'll go along and say Marriott's horrible, please move to Hilton.

OK K, I'm going to see if I can get the same for Ss&Gs.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

CaptJOB — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 18:10:59 GMT

I got 1.4 cents per point on a category 2 redemption yesterday. Two nights for 20k points when the cash rate with tax was $282(not that most people play the points game to stay at Courtyards though). Feel like it'll be a while before this program is fully nerfed.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

CreditCuriosity — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 19:50:01 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I just booked a room that would have been $2035.32 after taxes for 85,000 points. That's 2.4 cents per point. My Hilton options were Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, and Hilton Garden Inn (3 lower-end brands) for 200,000 to 400,000 points for the same nights. I'm not a mathematician by trade, but it seems like I'm getting "slightly" better value from Marriott?

Category changes have always happened and always will as long as award stays aren't based on revenue amounts. It's in my best interest for people to leave Marriott for Hilton and others, so I'll go along and say Marriott's horrible, please move to Hilton.

Need info as i might just take a quick nice vacation and we can meet up for that valuation .. I am sure it exists, but must be a nice hotel for that cost.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Anonymous — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 20:26:44 GMT

DH and I generally use our points towards vacations and we were able to stay at a category 6 in Maui for 4 nights (50k pts/night). Totally worth it.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

NRB525 — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 01:23:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
DH and I generally use our points towards vacations and we were able to stay at a category 6 in Maui for 4 nights (50k pts/night). Totally worth it.

Have you tried to book at that rate with the new Dynamic Pricing?

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 05:38:05 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
I just booked a room that would have been $2035.32 after taxes for 85,000 points. That's 2.4 cents per point. My Hilton options were Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, and Hilton Garden Inn (3 lower-end brands) for 200,000 to 400,000 points for the same nights. I'm not a mathematician by trade, but it seems like I'm getting "slightly" better value from Marriott?

Category changes have always happened and always will as long as award stays aren't based on revenue amounts. It's in my best interest for people to leave Marriott for Hilton and others, so I'll go along and say Marriott's horrible, please move to Hilton.

@K-in-Boston Well the best I can do for Hilton is $1,484.40 for 77,400, 1.9 per cent per dollar which might be better than your 2.4 cents per dollar since I get 62% more points than Marriott with the ascend card w/ the same gold status 30 points per stay vs. 18.50 points on Marriott stays. I came out to close to your 2.4, mine was 2.2 or so for Marriott same location.

I did find that some Marriott reward redemptions better when I was with both and vesa versa, w/ Hilton it will always be less cents per dollar but again you get more points making relative the same or better on each redemption.

Lol, battle of the chains.....Please stay at Marriott, Hilton sucks. So if we each spend 5k for stays and keep the same redemption rate 2.4 and 1.9 you will have $2,220 and I will have $2,850 value.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Remedios — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 14:08:28 GMT

I totally expected a lot more of furious typing here.

Sigh.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

K-in-Boston — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 14:18:35 GMT

LOL But you're forgetting that I'm Titanium Elite and I get welcome gifts of points (and Make A Green Choice points for declining housekeeping on multi-night stays). So if I spent $5000 on 25 $200 nights, I'd earn 142,500 points but you'd earn 150,000 putting me on top with $3420 vs your $2850. I get another 25,000 points if I stay at 50 $100 rooms, plus Marriott has bonus promotions all the time.

I do have to say I'm impressed with your Hilton award findings. It never works out for me like that.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 16:33:09 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
LOL But you're forgetting that I'm Titanium Elite and I get welcome gifts of points (and Make A Green Choice points for declining housekeeping on multi-night stays). So if I spent $5000 on 25 $200 nights, I'd earn 142,500 points but you'd earn 150,000 putting me on top with $3420 vs your $2850. I get another 25,000 points if I stay at 50 $100 rooms, plus Marriott has bonus promotions all the time.

I do have to say I'm impressed with your Hilton award findings. It never works out for me like that.

K, not all of us are on the top of the food chain......Gold commoners don't have it as good. Lol, is that the 500 bonus points I get for stays as gold? Yah, I get housekeeping and I still don't recycle.....Until China, Mexico, Russia and others start caring about the environment it really won't matter how green we are......

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

Anonymous — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 17:46:14 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
LOL But you're forgetting that I'm Titanium Elite and I get welcome gifts of points (and Make A Green Choice points for declining housekeeping on multi-night stays). So if I spent $5000 on 25 $200 nights, I'd earn 142,500 points but you'd earn 150,000 putting me on top with $3420 vs your $2850. I get another 25,000 points if I stay at 50 $100 rooms, plus Marriott has bonus promotions all the time.

I do have to say I'm impressed with your Hilton award findings. It never works out for me like that.

Yeah, what KIB said. Lol...this is why he's my go-to 😂

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

MacRoadie — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:58:09 GMT

For me, the biggest change has to be the dramatic reduction in available rooms for upgrades:

https://viewfromthewing.com/marriott-adds-capacity-controls-to-limit-awards-at-many-hotels/

https://onemileatatime.com/marriott-bonvoy-capacity-controls/

Was thinking of picking up the Bonvoy Brilliant, but I think I'll pass.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

redpat — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:48:26 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
LOL But you're forgetting that I'm Titanium Elite and I get welcome gifts of points (and Make A Green Choice points for declining housekeeping on multi-night stays). So if I spent $5000 on 25 $200 nights, I'd earn 142,500 points but you'd earn 150,000 putting me on top with $3420 vs your $2850. I get another 25,000 points if I stay at 50 $100 rooms, plus Marriott has bonus promotions all the time.

I do have to say I'm impressed with your Hilton award findings. It never works out for me like that.
Yeah, what KIB said. Lol...this is why he's my go-to 😂

Hilton Aspire right out of the gate would only put me $190 behind you K, I'm closing fast.

Re: Huge Marriott Devaluation coming

iced — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 19:03:23 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
"Marriott Rewards award pricing always was based on the volume of redemptions that the property received rather than the price itself. Hotels that receive a high number of awards are priced higher using points than what their cash rates would justify."

The opposite can occur too, but....

This and other point "adjustments" is why I don't like travel point rewards cards. By the time you store up a ton of points for future trips, something happens where you lost value. I've compared hotel prices by using rewards where my card can convert points for, and often found its more expensive to do so, based on the property.

There's a lot to be said for the first paragraph. Points -- be it Marriott, Hilton, or Schrutebucks -- are just as susceptible to Gresham's Law as money, and it needs re-balancing every so often to fix the min-max greed.

I don't see this as a point devaluation (especially not a "brutal" one like the dramatic author in the linked article thinks) as a shifting away from overly-redeemed/abused properties. When I checked in at the Cotton House in Barcelona a few years back, I was third in line and the only one in the lobby not staying on points. I've been to other higher-cat properties, particularly in heavy tropical tourist destinations, where I'm pretty sure a fifth or quarter of the guests there were on points. That's just not sustainable for any program.

If the same 100 properties are getting all of the redemptions, it's not a devaluation of the program to change the redemption for those 100; it's a sign that there's an imbalance and everyone's targeting the same too-highly-valued properties with points. Re-balance things with category shifts so people start distrbuting those points more evenly across more properties.

It doesn't help that people also take suggestions from sites like TPG as gospel and innundate them as well. I sometimes think TPG saying a hotel is a must-stay on points is as good as a kiss of death for redemption there.