topic Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards in Credit Cards

Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Taurus22 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 03:51:58 GMT

So I've been re-evaluating my future needs for my cashback lineup and I need some clarification on obtaining multiples of the same card. I know some people have multiples due to PC and some are actually achieved by cold apps. However, I'm unsure which lenders allow for multiple cards without PC's and what criteria must be met in order to do this. (Time lapse between apps, other factors, etc)

Interest #1) BoA Cash Rewards : I currently have the MC version of this card (March 2019) that I keep for Perma- 3% Online Shopping. But this card is very flexible, allowing for category change each month. I think a 2nd would be beneficial to me to rotate between dining, home improvement so I can keep my 1st one on Online Shopping. I am fond of the no-FTF, straight cashback redemption, and I would like the US Pride Visa version. (Would apping for the Visa version hold any weight for approval of the 2nd card?) I have no other BoA's to PC. As an added thought....if it is possible to app for a 2nd, would I be eligible for the $200 spend bonus again?

Interest #2) BBVA Clearpoints Visa : I don't have this card yet (not sure if it's geo-restricted or if I even qualify for it). But the versatility of the card is fantastic due to the categories it covers. (Has useful categories the BoA doesn't cover) People also mention special bonuses that are frequently offered.

3% Dining , Travel , Healthcare , Maintenance (both auto and home), Retail , Grocery , Gas , Utilities

Having 2x this card, and being able to rotate quarterly, would be very beneficial. There are caveats to this card however: 3% FTF, No 0% purchase promo, and (from what I have seen, correct me if I'm wrong) you can only get statement credit. Doesn't statement credit reduce the actual return?

Interest 3) Huntington Voice : This one has been on my maybe-list for a long time and I keep passing it up. Like BoA and BBVA, there's a nice spread of categories to rotate between. The reason I keep passing it up is: No spend bonus, no 0% promos, unclear on FTF, and appears to be statement credit only. Again, does this reduce the actual return?

3% Dining, Travel, Discount Stores, Grocery, Home Improvement Stores, Gas

The thing that keeps me coming back.....Discount Stores & Grocery (on the same card). I need a Walmart spender above 2% and this would be covered by one or the other, depending on how my local stores code I can figure that out. This would be a Perma-Walmart spender, but with the option to rotate if needed. Again, versatility.

Multi-category cards are so versatile. Big fan here. If anyone has any data points on these I would appreciate it. Are multiples possible? What criteria must be met? Answers to any of the above questions? Other suggestions? Warnings?

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

wasCB14 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 04:48:39 GMT

Maybe list your estimated annual spend per category? That might help find an ideal order for applications.

As I mentioned in your other thread, when you already have a 2% DC, big bonuses can be more useful than a bunch of 3% cards.

One general warning is to keep an eye out for category definitions that vary between cards, especially as far as travel/dining/grocery.

Also, keep in mind that categories can change over time, and generally not for the better. Sit-down restaurants and (so I've heard) bill pay used to be Cash+ category options.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

issac2x — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 12:40:05 GMT

BOA - does have rules in place for apping for new cards so you should check and plan accordingly. Otherwise you should be able to get a 2nd card and possible SUB; the CR does have FTFs useless you have an affinity version I'm not aware of.

BBVA - if your state has branches you should be in their footprint just call them to be sure. This can be your Walmart card as my supercenter codes as groceries YMMV though. They do have 0% APR on purchases and SUB.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

kdm31091 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:08:28 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
Maybe list your estimated annual spend per category? That might help find an ideal order for applications.

As I mentioned in your other thread, when you already have a 2% DC, big bonuses can be more useful than a bunch of 3% cards.

This. I understand optimizing but you may find the benefit becomes fairly minimal when you open a bunch of cards for 3% on this or that. Better to cover your major spending categories IMO instead of every single possible spend area.

I know BoA has tightened up somewhat and IIRC there is some sort of rule with the Cash Rewards where you cannot get a 2nd until the first is 24 months old. Copied from their terms: "This Cash Rewards card will not be available to you if you currently have a Cash Rewards card unless you have had that Cash Rewards card for at least 24 months."

Unsure if getting a cobranded Cash Rewards is a way around the rule. In any event, I wouldn't really make a huge priority of opening another account for 3% on one category unless the spend is really large.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:16:42 GMT

BOA CR can be had in multiple varieties, such as regular, MLB, Komen, etc. Each can be set to a different rewards category. Each is eligible for 3% up to 5.25% cash back per chosen category depending on how much money you have with BOA/Merrill, including IRAs. Each card comes with its own SUB.

BOA has rules that limit you to 2 cards over 2 months, 3 cards over 12 months, and 4 cards over 24 months. So it's possible to get 2 BOA CR on the same day, and then get a 3rd 62 days later. And a 4th 367 days later. Since there are 6 categories and you can switch monthly, in 62 days you can essentially have all the bases covered with 3 cards.

Most of the categories are defined by the MCC codes that qualify. The online shopping category is defined by excluded MCC codes, and therefore crosses over into the other categories if purchased online, like food or travel.

*************

I would recommend US Bank Cash+ over BBVA and Huntington Voice. The US Bank categories are 5%, and they have categories not usually covered elsewhere, like utilities, streaming, department stores, gym memberships, etc. Multiple Cash+ cards can be held simulaneously.

************

Don't overlook opening a second (first?) Discover card, which essentially offers 10% on quarterly categories during the first year with cash back match. At $1500 spend cap per quarter, this is worth up to $150 per quarter or $750 over a 12-month period if you double dip the quarterly category in which you open the card, spending $1500 in the category now and another $1500 ~11 months from now.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Taurus22 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:46:48 GMT

@wasCB14

I understand your point regarding the DC 2% catch-all, but Citi never offers bonuses. And the card categories are subject to change, but as in USBank's case, they replaced restaurants with utilities which was equally useful. So they can be beneficial as well. (I'm also considering replacing my DC 2% MC with FNBO 2% Visa so I can use it at Costco without having to bind myself to the Costco Anywhere.)

Fortunately, my expenses are somewhat modest, but this doesn't include misc. purchases either. Things like Healthcare, Home Improve, Vacations, etc all fall under the 2% catch-all for me. But when they do hit, they can be just as expensive (if not more) than my highest spend category. And then there's the toys and impulse buys.

Dining is my largest spend, including lunch @ work. 5% is an obvious goal for me here, minimum 3%.

(Barclay Uber really scorched me on this one, that 4% dining was huge)

Grocery usually falls primarily under Walmart for me. 5% is again my goal here, minimum 3%.

The difference between 2%/3% doesn't seem like much, but it essentially equates to $160 in lost return annually for me. The difference between my current cashback and having 5% across all categories is $540 annually. So the 3% stretch is the progression for now until I can find a way to fill those 5% holes. And cards like BBVA which offer bonuses can be a boost.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Taurus22 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 14:56:30 GMT

@Chiclets

That is very good info on BoA, thank you. And I do have the USBank Cash+ which I use to cover 5% Utilities and Internet. Also considering replacing this down the road with the Chase Ink Business Cash (5% Utilities, Internet, Phone, Office Supplies) to free up the USBank for other categories, like Dept Stores, Furniture Stores etc. And the $500 SUB on the Ink is very nice.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

JNA1 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:16:30 GMT

I’m not sure what you mean statement credit reducing value, but the way I do it, it definitely doesn’t. I let the cash back build up for a few months at time and then redeem it all at once. I approach it that I PIF, so I have to pay whatever I spend monthly anyway. That’s a finite number that I am going to spend no matter what. When I do redeem Cashback as statement credit, I transfer that amount from bank to my dedicated Cashback savings account and then I pay the rest of the card payment to PIF. It’s an extra step (sorta but not really), and requires discipline, but doing it that puts my Cashback all in one place. I redeem my Discover and PayPal Cashback into the same account, so for me it’s really no different. Redeeming cashback from a card into my savings account is an extra step too, so it’s really no different if you think about. It’s just moving money around. The only cards I don’t like the structure is like DW’s Credit One card. It puts the cash back against the balance with each purchase and you cannot let it build up. It’s more of a PITA to track that way, but we rarely use that card anyway, and when we do, it’s just purchases big enough to keep it open.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Taurus22 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 15:46:28 GMT

@JNA1

That's pretty much exactly what I do. I build up the cashback on all my cards until Oct/Nov each year, then cash it all out, which covers a chunk of my Christmas spend. This is mainly why I prefer true cashback return rather than statement credit, just old-fashioned that way I guess. I always PIF, as I use CC's siimply as a vehicle to filter my spend in order to get cashback return.

I know with some cards (mainly points cards like Amex) there is a cut in the redemption value when getting a statement credit. Maybe I'm just not clear on the specifics. I know this is true with the ABoC MC, which is a 5% rotater that is only statement credit and converts to 3.75%.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

kdm31091 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 16:06:24 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
@wasCB14

I understand your point regarding the DC 2% catch-all, but Citi never offers bonuses. And the card categories are subject to change, but as in USBank's case, they replaced restaurants with utilities which was equally useful. So they can be beneficial as well. (I'm also considering replacing my DC 2% MC with FNBO 2% Visa so I can use it at Costco without having to bind myself to the Costco Anywhere.)

Fortunately, my expenses are somewhat modest, but this doesn't include misc. purchases either. Things like Healthcare, Home Improve, Vacations, etc all fall under the 2% catch-all for me. But when they do hit, they can be just as expensive (if not more) than my highest spend category. And then there's the toys and impulse buys.
Dining is my largest spend, including lunch @ work. 5% is an obvious goal for me here, minimum 3%.
(Barclay Uber really scorched me on this one, that 4% dining was huge)
Grocery usually falls primarily under Walmart for me. 5% is again my goal here, minimum 3%.

The difference between 2%/3% doesn't seem like much, but it essentially equates to $160 in lost return annually for me. The difference between my current cashback and having 5% across all categories is $540 annually. So the 3% stretch is the progression for now until I can find a way to fill those 5% holes. And cards like BBVA which offer bonuses can be a boost.

Obviously it does make sense to get rewards on spend you're doing anyway, but consider also that maximizing dining spend rewards is never going to save you more money vs packing a lunch for work even once or twice a week. Those savings will far eclipse an extra 1 or 2% on overpriced dining out lunches.

Not to say you cannot do both -- maximize rewards and still try to save sometimes -- but something to note. Just because you get more rewards on dining out doesn't mean you may not save more by changing your habits, too.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 16:19:15 GMT

@JNA1 wrote:
I’m not sure what you mean statement credit reducing value, but the way I do it, it definitely doesn’t. I let the cash back build up for a few months at time and then redeem it all at once. I approach it that I PIF, so I have to pay whatever I spend monthly anyway. That’s a finite number that I am going to spend no matter what. When I do redeem Cashback as statement credit, I transfer that amount from bank to my dedicated Cashback savings account and then I pay the rest of the card payment to PIF. It’s an extra step (sorta but not really), and requires discipline, but doing it that puts my Cashback all in one place. I redeem my Discover and PayPal Cashback into the same account, so for me it’s really no different. Redeeming cashback from a card into my savings account is an extra step too, so it’s really no different if you think about. It’s just moving money around. The only cards I don’t like the structure is like DW’s Credit One card. It puts the cash back against the balance with each purchase and you cannot let it build up. It’s more of a PITA to track that way, but we rarely use that card anyway, and when we do, it’s just purchases big enough to keep it open.

The reason you lose money is because you don't actually have that extra cash to cycle for rewards. It's a small amount of loss but it's still a loss and that bothers some people. I personally don't care as long as I get my reward and in many cases it's just easier to use statement credits anyway instead of redeeming to my bank account.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 16:36:51 GMT

@JNA1 wrote:
I’m not sure what you mean statement credit reducing value, but the way I do it, it definitely doesn’t.

When people refer to this, they are generally talking about one of two things:

1) Statement credit as a low-value option. This is true for things like MR (and I think Venture) where redeeming for statement credit is clearly lower value than some alternatives

2) Special cases such as the Double Cash. With DC, you get 1% on payment (as well as 1% on spend). If you redeem for statement credit, you end up having to pay less, and so get the 1% on a smaller amount. The impact is very small (making it a 1.99% card) but worth avoiding by depositing to a bank account, whereas in case 1 you may not be able to use a better redemption.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 17:55:46 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:

Thanks for the chart, I was perfectly fine being oblivious to what I actually spent yearly on this stuff!

Now I have to be actively more conscious about what spend goes where. Problem it that "utilities" category is very rare, so i've yet to aquire the right card for that. if it were a perfect world, i could cover all categories in only 3 cards.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

NRB525 — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 19:37:04 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
@wasCB14

I understand your point regarding the DC 2% catch-all, but Citi never offers bonuses. And the card categories are subject to change, but as in USBank's case, they replaced restaurants with utilities which was equally useful. So they can be beneficial as well. (I'm also considering replacing my DC 2% MC with FNBO 2% Visa so I can use it at Costco without having to bind myself to the Costco Anywhere.)

Fortunately, my expenses are somewhat modest, but this doesn't include misc. purchases either. Things like Healthcare, Home Improve, Vacations, etc all fall under the 2% catch-all for me. But when they do hit, they can be just as expensive (if not more) than my highest spend category. And then there's the toys and impulse buys.
Dining is my largest spend, including lunch @ work. 5% is an obvious goal for me here, minimum 3%.
(Barclay Uber really scorched me on this one, that 4% dining was huge)
Grocery usually falls primarily under Walmart for me. 5% is again my goal here, minimum 3%.

The difference between 2%/3% doesn't seem like much, but it essentially equates to $160 in lost return annually for me. The difference between my current cashback and having 5% across all categories is $540 annually. So the 3% stretch is the progression for now until I can find a way to fill those 5% holes. And cards like BBVA which offer bonuses can be a boost.

As noted in the other threads by many, you ( none of us ) will find 5% cash back across all categories. The closest you can get is with travel rewards cards, but those generally come with AF and do not redeem for straight cash.

And there is the basic reason that the swipe fees are the main source of the rewards. When merchant swipe fees approach 5% then we will see higher CC rewards. Prices merchants charge will also be 5% or more higher, and pigs will fly.

I am a little shocked at the amount of "online shopping" you have listed, given the spend in other categories. Maybe I am just old.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 22:02:19 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
As noted in the other threads by many, you ( none of us ) will find 5% cash back across all categories. The closest you can get is with travel rewards cards, but those generally come with AF and do not redeem for straight cash.

Probably not, but for that last few months I've been using the 5% everything uncapped Citizen's Bank card. This ends March 31 but made me wonder if there are other similar cards around from time to time!

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

NRB525 — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 00:41:19 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
As noted in the other threads by many, you ( none of us ) will find 5% cash back across all categories. The closest you can get is with travel rewards cards, but those generally come with AF and do not redeem for straight cash.

Probably not, but for that last few months I've been using the 5% everything uncapped Citizen's Bank card. This ends March 31 but made me wonder if there are other similar cards around from time to time!

And the value of the extra earnings, over what you would have gotten in-category on your other cards, whether rotating or selected, is.... how much money?

As we all know, the intent of the categories bonus is to get cardholders to use their cards more, in the non-category spend. The interesting data point will be if Citizen's ever comes back with the 5% Everything offering.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

wasCB14 — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 01:06:31 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@Taurus22 wrote:
@wasCB14

I understand your point regarding the DC 2% catch-all, but Citi never offers bonuses. And the card categories are subject to change, but as in USBank's case, they replaced restaurants with utilities which was equally useful. So they can be beneficial as well. (I'm also considering replacing my DC 2% MC with FNBO 2% Visa so I can use it at Costco without having to bind myself to the Costco Anywhere.)

Fortunately, my expenses are somewhat modest, but this doesn't include misc. purchases either. Things like Healthcare, Home Improve, Vacations, etc all fall under the 2% catch-all for me. But when they do hit, they can be just as expensive (if not more) than my highest spend category. And then there's the toys and impulse buys.
Dining is my largest spend, including lunch @ work. 5% is an obvious goal for me here, minimum 3%.
(Barclay Uber really scorched me on this one, that 4% dining was huge)
Grocery usually falls primarily under Walmart for me. 5% is again my goal here, minimum 3%.

The difference between 2%/3% doesn't seem like much, but it essentially equates to $160 in lost return annually for me. The difference between my current cashback and having 5% across all categories is $540 annually. So the 3% stretch is the progression for now until I can find a way to fill those 5% holes. And cards like BBVA which offer bonuses can be a boost.
Obviously it does make sense to get rewards on spend you're doing anyway, but consider also that maximizing dining spend rewards is never going to save you more money vs packing a lunch for work even once or twice a week. Those savings will far eclipse an extra 1 or 2% on overpriced dining out lunches.

Not to say you cannot do both -- maximize rewards and still try to save sometimes -- but something to note. Just because you get more rewards on dining out doesn't mean you may not save more by changing your habits, too.

Agreed on saving money where possible. Not exactly sure what "toys and impulse buys" cost per year, but that could be worth examining.

At $160/year, even if you find a 3% card for everything, don't get any nerfs, don't hit any caps, get the merchant categories exactly right, and always always end up using the right card...you still end up with about as much in additional rewards as you would from a $500 SUB every three years.

The latter approach just seems so much simpler to me!

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

coldfusion — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 01:08:50 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
BOA CR can be had in multiple varieties, such as regular, MLB, Komen, etc. Each can be set to a different rewards category. Each is eligible for 3% up to 5.25% cash back per chosen category depending on how much money you have with BOA/Merrill, including IRAs. Each card comes with its own SUB.

BOA has rules that limit you to 2 cards over 2 months, 3 cards over 12 months, and 4 cards over 24 months. So it's possible to get 2 BOA CR on the same day, and then get a 3rd 62 days later. And a 4th 367 days later. Since there are 6 categories and you can switch monthly, in 62 days you can essentially have all the bases covered with 3 cards.

They also now have 3/12 and 7/12 rules; their default (it's not absolute, I'm an example) is to deny new applications from current accountholders who have obtained 7 or more cards across all issuers over the last 12 months, 3 or more cards for applicants who are not current customers.

Re: Multiples of Multi-Category Cards

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 14:52:00 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:
As noted in the other threads by many, you ( none of us ) will find 5% cash back across all categories. The closest you can get is with travel rewards cards, but those generally come with AF and do not redeem for straight cash.

Probably not, but for that last few months I've been using the 5% everything uncapped Citizen's Bank card. This ends March 31 but made me wonder if there are other similar cards around from time to time!
And the value of the extra earnings, over what you would have gotten in-category on your other cards, whether rotating or selected, is.... how much money?

As we all know, the intent of the categories bonus is to get cardholders to use their cards more, in the non-category spend. The interesting data point will be if Citizen's ever comes back with the 5% Everything offering.

Because I've been good and avoided MS (but some big spend on estimated taxes) it's not going to be huge, but several hundred extra for the 4.5 months. I've also used other 5% cards where possible, as the Citizen's 5% is delayed. Before the period ends I will buy gift cards for some repeated spending that I don't have good cards for (Amazon UK being a good example!)

I have moved some subscription-type stuff to this card. If only the non-promo rate was 2% rather than 1.8% I would keep them there, seems like Citizen's missed an opportunity there....

Searching I found an earlier offer from a different place:

https://milenomics.com/2018/11/freedom-credit-union-cash-back-visa-5-back-with-plenty-of-strings-attached/

The author seems to be stressing the potential strings, but looked normal verbiage to me!