topic Re: Which card(s) to get? in Credit Cards

Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:12:06 GMT

Hi all, I will be moving to college in July and will have expenses of around $3k during this time. So I figure this is a good time to hit some subs. However, I am very conflicted about which cards I want to go for. I will be applying for them around the end of May/beginning of June. Also do want to note, I'm looking to refinance my DCU auto loan again. It's currently at 3.49% but they lowered it and so I'd like to get it down to 2.49%. Not sure how much this will effect my plans or when I should apply for it though.

These are my current cards:

Discover it: Opened Oct 10, 2017 and limit of $4,400

Amex Cash Magnet: Opened Jan 14, 2019 and limit of $9,900

Chase Freedom: Opened Jan 24, 2019 and limit of $2,500

Wells Fargo Propel: Opened April 4, 2019 and limit of $6,000

Citi Rewards+: Opened July 2, 2019 and limit of $3,400 (pc to double cash in July)

Auto loan was opened Oct 22, 2019

This leaves me at 4/24, with my planned future cards:

US Bank Cash+
BofA Cash Rewards

Amex BCE/BCP

C1 Savor One (low priority)

Here are my stats:

FICO Score: 731 TU (Discover), 747 EX, EQ is somewhere between those

Utilization: 2%, will probably go AZEO

Inquiries: 2 on TU and EQ, 4 on EX

No derogatories or late payments

Age: Average is 1.4 years, oldest is 2.6 years

8 total accounts, 2 closed- one a gas cc, other was self lender loan, both with perfect payments

That leads me to my options. I can get a US Bank Cash+ and a BCP for a net return of around $405 on $1500. I will probably be spending $1k in the 5% categories on the Cash+ so that will get me an extra $50. Another option is to get those two plus a BofA Cash Rewards for a total of $605 on $2500 spend. I have no problem doing this but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. It would leave me with 8 credit cards, which I can handle, but that's 2 more apps when I already need 5. Also not sure if any creditors will get worried, especially with the auto loan and the possibility of a landlord checking my credit.

I could also get 1 or 2 of these, then get the others a couple of months later or whenever I want the extra cash. This honestly sounds like the best choice as I'm writing it.

The last option, which is why I'm thinking so much, is to get the Chase Sapphire Preferred. It will give me 60k points on $4k spend which will be a little tougher but should be no problem organically. It makes it easier just getting one card and will give me about $545 just for a statement credit. At 2 cents a point, it could be worth $1,200. But the only traveling I will be doing is back home. I'm not sure if I will even need to pay for this and it wouldn't be that often since I'm basically moving across the country. I will have an apartment, pets, car, etc so I can't leave that much. If I don't get it, I could get the sub in 2 years when I graduate, during which I might be actually traveling more. I was "already approved" for the CSP with a $6k limit a month ago but that's no longer showing.

I also like to see a discount after a buy everything I need and if I just save the points then I don't get the satisfaction. Also, this card would be useless to me after the sub. I'd change it to a Freedom after a year and then maybe just cancel it. The other cards will be kept and can be used every month.

Any advice is helpful!

Re: Which card(s) to get?

NRB525 — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:01:28 GMT

If you have applied for 4 cards in a year, and you realize you need the "bonus" to feel like you are making progress, you might want to have a serious conversation with yourself about these apps.

Your next intended sequence is continuing to find new banks. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, I have dealt with nearly all the banks you list, and still have cards with many of them, but the ongoing use of the cards becomes less rewarding.

What about getting Freedom Unlimited, and use that as a non-category card? That will contribute UR points along with the Freedom, and then as you get closer to graduation, a CSP or CSR app yields more UR points for a larger redemption?

One of the reasons you are going to college is for the deferred gratification of getting a better job later. I'd suggest thinking similarly about your credit cards, using them for their regular rewards and saving points up without looking for the relatively small $200 to $300 current cash bonuses, which really don't compare well to larger SUB. 5/24 is really a thing, and you'll be at 4/24 for another year before these start rolling off your reports.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 13:49:27 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
If you have applied for 4 cards in a year, and you realize you need the "bonus" to feel like you are making progress, you might want to have a serious conversation with yourself about these apps.

Your next intended sequence is continuing to find new banks. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, I have dealt with nearly all the banks you list, and still have cards with many of them, but the ongoing use of the cards becomes less rewarding.

What about getting Freedom Unlimited, and use that as a non-category card? That will contribute UR points along with the Freedom, and then as you get closer to graduation, a CSP or CSR app yields more UR points for a larger redemption?

One of the reasons you are going to college is for the deferred gratification of getting a better job later. I'd suggest thinking similarly about your credit cards, using them for their regular rewards and saving points up without looking for the relatively small $200 to $300 current cash bonuses, which really don't compare well to larger SUB. 5/24 is really a thing, and you'll be at 4/24 for another year before these start rolling off your reports.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:29:16 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
If you have applied for 4 cards in a year, and you realize you need the "bonus" to feel like you are making progress, you might want to have a serious conversation with yourself about these apps.

Your next intended sequence is continuing to find new banks. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, I have dealt with nearly all the banks you list, and still have cards with many of them, but the ongoing use of the cards becomes less rewarding.

What about getting Freedom Unlimited, and use that as a non-category card? That will contribute UR points along with the Freedom, and then as you get closer to graduation, a CSP or CSR app yields more UR points for a larger redemption?

One of the reasons you are going to college is for the deferred gratification of getting a better job later. I'd suggest thinking similarly about your credit cards, using them for their regular rewards and saving points up without looking for the relatively small $200 to $300 current cash bonuses, which really don't compare well to larger SUB. 5/24 is really a thing, and you'll be at 4/24 for another year before these start rolling off your reports.

I don't necessarily need the bonus to feel that I am making progress, but I do want to save as much as I can. That's why I open bank accounts as well sometimes, for the bonus. I don't need the checking account, but the $300 helps me out.

All of the cards I have, and plan to get, will stay with me forever (unless they change significantly). Maximum cash back is my goal, points aren't worth it to me at the moment and I don't see them being worth it in the future. I have an older post that outlines my cash back plan, maximing each category I spend in. Certainly helps to get the bonus as well.

UR points aren't worth more than 1cpp to me. I will have the Double Cash in July, so I don't need another 1.5% card when I will have the DC and Cash Magnet. I'd like to get a card that fits my plan, or at least one with a bigger bonus that will save me more money.

So is getting just the CSP not a good idea? A statement credit would get me $545. That would be more than a $200 sub+5% back on $4k (which I couldn't get anyway). Plus, if I choose to use it on travel, I could get double that. Then after a year I could have 2 Freedoms, which would allow me to have more 5% spending. Thank you for your help.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 03:13:31 GMT

Getting SUBs works OK in the short run, but you run out of banks pretty quickly. Then you're likely to end up with a handful of cards that aren't very useful. Not the best for your credit history as you risk closure without some usage on all those cards, or you closing them because they're useless. Bad for AAoA.

Why not have a handful of cards that give you good returns on rewards? You'll make up a lot of the missed SUBs with rewards, while building a strong credit history.

Something to think about.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Aim_High — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 04:11:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I will be moving to college in July and will have expenses of around $3k during this time. So I figure this is a good time to hit some subs.

These are my current cards:
Discover it ....................$4,400
Amex Cash Magnet .....$9,900
Chase Freedom ............$2,500
Wells Fargo Propel .......$6,000
Citi Rewards+.................$3,400
This leaves me at 4/24
Age: Average is 1.4 years, oldest is 2.6 years
8 total accounts, 2 closed

Any advice is helpful!

Concur with @NRB525 posting above.

I also notice you say nothing about your income and expenses (monthly spend). I don't sense that you need new cards for furthering rewards value since there is no discussion about that. Your credit lines are already $26.2K and you already have five great cards with five of the largest major national card issuers, so an average of over $5K per card! As a college student, it sounds like you're already doing extremely well, credit-wise.

SUBs are nice but keeping the big picture about your credit file is even more important. It's easy to let the SUB-chasing get out of control. You're wise to be concerned about spooking creditors. Continuing to aggressively seek SUBs and open new accounts for which you have doubtful long-term value is a poor choice at this point, IMO. And if you're not going to be traveling, why app for a CSP when you already have a Propel card? Finding cards for which you have a long-term value that also give you a great SUB will always be the best compromise between SUBs and maintaining your credit score.

You have a young but very active credit profile. All those cards and loans and your AAoA is only 1.4 years? You have two years until graduation, so it's time to garden long-term. Relax, the card game will still be here when you get done. Your needs will change a lot after graduation and you may find you want to go in a completely different direction. Wouldn't it be nice to be 0/24 so that you could qualify for whatever cards you wanted, regardless of how selective the lender? It's a great position to be in. I've been there many times in my life. If anything, gardening is vastly underrated.

Good job putting together an awesome starting line-up.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:37:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Getting SUBs works OK in the short run, but you run out of banks pretty quickly. Then you're likely to end up with a handful of cards that aren't very useful. Not the best for your credit history as you risk closure without some usage on all those cards, or you closing them because they're useless. Bad for AAoA.

Why not have a handful of cards that give you good returns on rewards? You'll make up a lot of the missed SUBs with rewards, while building a strong credit history.

Something to think about.

I'm not churning useless cards for the bonus. The CSP idea is the only one that's a bit out there. All of the cards I listed are cards I want to have in the future and will give me long term value.

My current set up gives me 5% rotating categories from both the Freedom and Discover, then 3% back on dining, gas, and travel, then a soon to be 2% everything card. The cash magnet was the second card I got and now I realized there are better cards, so I will just be putting $0.99 iCloud on that.

My future cards will expand on that. BofA Cash Rewards will get me 3% back on online purchases, US Bank Cash+ will get me 5% back on utilities and cell phone/any other category I will be spending on that quarter. Amex BCP will get me 6% on groceries, then 3% after I downgrade. Basically filling the holes that I don't have cards for.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:39:11 GMT

OP, the advice you've gotten above from @Aim_High and @NRB525 is excellent, and they've been at this very successfully for a long time. You would absolutely do well to heed what they've told you.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:49:22 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I will be moving to college in July and will have expenses of around $3k during this time. So I figure this is a good time to hit some subs.

These are my current cards:
Discover it ....................$4,400
Amex Cash Magnet .....$9,900
Chase Freedom ............$2,500
Wells Fargo Propel .......$6,000
Citi Rewards+.................$3,400
This leaves me at 4/24
Age: Average is 1.4 years, oldest is 2.6 years
8 total accounts, 2 closed

Any advice is helpful!
Concur with @NRB525 posting above.

I also notice you say nothing about your income and expenses (monthly spend). I don't sense that you need new cards for furthering rewards value since there is no discussion about that. Your credit lines are already $26.2K and you already have five great cards with five of the largest major national card issuers, so an average of over $5K per card! As a college student, it sounds like you're already doing extremely well, credit-wise.

SUBs are nice but keeping the big picture about your credit file is even more important. It's easy to let the SUB-chasing get out of control. You're wise to be concerned about spooking creditors. Continuing to aggressively seek SUBs and open new accounts for which you have doubtful long-term value is a poor choice at this point, IMO. And if you're not going to be traveling, why app for a CSP when you already have a Propel card? Finding cards for which you have a long-term value that also give you a great SUB will always be the best compromise between SUBs and maintaining your credit score.

You have a young but very active credit profile. All those cards and loans and your AAoA is only 1.4 years? You have two years until graduation, so it's time to garden long-term. Relax, the card game will still be here when you get done. Your needs will change a lot after graduation and you may find you want to go in a completely different direction. Wouldn't it be nice to be 0/24 so that you could qualify for whatever cards you wanted, regardless of how selective the lender? It's a great position to be in. I've been there many times in my life. If anything, gardening is vastly underrated.

Good job putting together an awesome starting line-up.

Thank you for this. I just figure that since I'm going to be spending anyway, I may as well pick up a card I plan to get. I'll be paying for groceries and utilities for the first time, and those are both things I'll probably pay for forever. So both the BCE and Cash+ have lots of long term value and would allow me to save some money.

Would it be a bad idea to get just one of them? By the time I graduate I'd still be 0/24.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:13:08 GMT

It depends partly on income and spend - many college students don't have enough income to make so many cards advantageous and risk diluting rewards by trying to spend across that many platforms. Cash back is great, but if you can't redeem it until it's at least $25 like Amex, it's not so much of a perk if it takes six or eight months to hit that amount because of somewhat limited spending per card. You may or may not fit this, but it's another angle to consider.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Gmood1 — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:44:51 GMT

I would pick one or two cards out of that bunch that are the most useful.

And save the rest for a later date.

I'm certainly not here to slap your wrist.

Simply because, I churn and burn CCs all the time. Lol

The sky hasn't fallen. I have saved a lot on travel. Which works for me.

As long as you're not building debt. Building a thick file now, isn't a bad thing IMHO.

The last vacation I took. I apped for several CCs beforehand. And used them to pay for everything.

The SUBs I secured then. I'm now using on my next vacation in a month or so. Being able to fly a family of three outside of the continental United States, rent a nice convertible for the week while there. And I still haven't spent over $35 for it all, isn't exactly a bad financial move.😉

Your scores will continue to improve as long as you pay your bills. Just strategize your CC apps. And think ahead of what you want from them. Whether for long term or short term use.

They'll be on your file for 10 years. If you decide to close them.

Enjoy life and don't spend it all stressing about credit scores and AAoA. lol

Use your credit cards responsibly, let them work for you and you'll be just fine.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

kerplunk — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 13:56:40 GMT

Agreed with what a lot of people have said.

You know what the best SUB is? It's when you apply for an auto loan or mortgage and you are saving up to hundreds of dollars every month just because your credit score allowed you to get a super low interest rate.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 13:57:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for this. I just figure that since I'm going to be spending anyway, I may as well pick up a card I plan to get. I'll be paying for groceries and utilities for the first time, and those are both things I'll probably pay for forever. So both the BCE and Cash+ have lots of long term value and would allow me to save some money.

Would it be a bad idea to get just one of them? By the time I graduate I'd still be 0/24.

I tend not to concern myself with long-term value as things change too often. For example, utilities is a fairly recent addition to Cash+, and could go if they decide it is being unprofitable. I've also found it is best to grab things early (as too good to be true offers are soon found to be too good to be true by the issuer) so if the Cash+ makes enough sense for now (more than alternatives) then maybe worth an app.

I've never been a fan of the BCE, only 1% more than your upcoming DC, but also with a stricter sense of groceries. So I would wait on that until you determine where you will be buying groceries in college, and see if Amex considers that to be a grocery!

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:01:07 GMT

@kerplunk wrote:
Agreed with what a lot of people have said.

You know what the best SUB is? It's when you apply for an auto loan or mortgage and you are saving up to hundreds of dollars every month just because your credit score allowed you to get a super low interest rate.

Right, but you don't want to give up all SUBS for years until you go for a mortgage. You can get best rates without a perfect score, so don't app too much closer to the event, but OP maybe several years out.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

recoveringfrombk7 — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:44:34 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I will be moving to college in July and will have expenses of around $3k during this time. So I figure this is a good time to hit some subs.

These are my current cards:
Discover it ....................$4,400
Amex Cash Magnet .....$9,900
Chase Freedom ............$2,500
Wells Fargo Propel .......$6,000
Citi Rewards+.................$3,400
This leaves me at 4/24
Age: Average is 1.4 years, oldest is 2.6 years
8 total accounts, 2 closed

Any advice is helpful!
Concur with @NRB525 posting above.

I also notice you say nothing about your income and expenses (monthly spend). I don't sense that you need new cards for furthering rewards value since there is no discussion about that. Your credit lines are already $26.2K and you already have five great cards with five of the largest major national card issuers, so an average of over $5K per card! As a college student, it sounds like you're already doing extremely well, credit-wise.

SUBs are nice but keeping the big picture about your credit file is even more important. It's easy to let the SUB-chasing get out of control. You're wise to be concerned about spooking creditors. Continuing to aggressively seek SUBs and open new accounts for which you have doubtful long-term value is a poor choice at this point, IMO. And if you're not going to be traveling, why app for a CSP when you already have a Propel card? Finding cards for which you have a long-term value that also give you a great SUB will always be the best compromise between SUBs and maintaining your credit score.

You have a young but very active credit profile. All those cards and loans and your AAoA is only 1.4 years? You have two years until graduation, so it's time to garden long-term. Relax, the card game will still be here when you get done. Your needs will change a lot after graduation and you may find you want to go in a completely different direction. Wouldn't it be nice to be 0/24 so that you could qualify for whatever cards you wanted, regardless of how selective the lender? It's a great position to be in. I've been there many times in my life. If anything, gardening is vastly underrated.

Good job putting together an awesome starting line-up.
Thank you for this. I just figure that since I'm going to be spending anyway, I may as well pick up a card I plan to get. I'll be paying for groceries and utilities for the first time, and those are both things I'll probably pay for forever. So both the BCE and Cash+ have lots of long term value and would allow me to save some money.

Would it be a bad idea to get just one of them? By the time I graduate I'd still be 0/24.

In one post you mention BCP 6% on groceries and then here you say BCE. Just be sure that if you go BCP that your spend justifies it, especially since you've said it's your first time buying groceries.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:06:31 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Getting SUBs works OK in the short run, but you run out of banks pretty quickly. Then you're likely to end up with a handful of cards that aren't very useful. Not the best for your credit history as you risk closure without some usage on all those cards, or you closing them because they're useless. Bad for AAoA.

Why not have a handful of cards that give you good returns on rewards? You'll make up a lot of the missed SUBs with rewards, while building a strong credit history.

Something to think about.
I'm not churning useless cards for the bonus. The CSP idea is the only one that's a bit out there. All of the cards I listed are cards I want to have in the future and will give me long term value.

My current set up gives me 5% rotating categories from both the Freedom and Discover, then 3% back on dining, gas, and travel, then a soon to be 2% everything card. The cash magnet was the second card I got and now I realized there are better cards, so I will just be putting $0.99 iCloud on that.

My future cards will expand on that. BofA Cash Rewards will get me 3% back on online purchases, US Bank Cash+ will get me 5% back on utilities and cell phone/any other category I will be spending on that quarter. Amex BCP will get me 6% on groceries, then 3% after I downgrade. Basically filling the holes that I don't have cards for.

That's good then. You have some nice cards for a college student. I wish I had those cards back then lol. Your credit background is going to be a big asset once you're out. The stronger the better.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Aim_High — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:17:18 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
It depends partly on income and spend - many college students don't have enough income to make so many cards advantageous

^ ^ ^ This ...

... is part of what I was getting at when I discussed rewards relative to your cards. Generally speaking, the lower the income, the less number of rewards programs and complexity is best. At higher levels of income (which is typically linked to higher levels of spend), it's easier to diversify among cards and rewards programs. At some point, you will get to a diminishing rewards value where adding additional cards adds complexity to your wallet for marginal if any additional rewards value. You may stagnate redemption options on any simple rewards program. We all have to choose where we draw the line between those two choices.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:24:44 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
It depends partly on income and spend - many college students don't have enough income to make so many cards advantageous
^ ^ ^ This ...

... is part of what I was getting at when I discussed rewards relative to your cards. Generally speaking, the lower the income, the less number of rewards programs and complexity is best. At higher levels of income (which is typically linked to higher levels of spend), it's easier to diversify among cards and rewards programs. At some point, you will get to a diminishing rewards value where adding additional cards adds complexity to your wallet for marginal if any additional rewards value. You may stagnate redemption options on any simple rewards program. We all have to choose where we draw the line between those two choices.

As long as you keep the number of cards with minimum redemption thresholds low, it's not really a big deal to ultra optimize your spend. Out of the 9 cards I have as part of my spend, only two have minimum redemptions and they're both cards I use heavily so it's not a big deal.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:24:57 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
It depends partly on income and spend - many college students don't have enough income to make so many cards advantageous
^ ^ ^ This ...

... is part of what I was getting at when I discussed rewards relative to your cards. Generally speaking, the lower the income, the less number of rewards programs and complexity is best. At higher levels of income (which is typically linked to higher levels of spend), it's easier to diversify among cards and rewards programs. At some point, you will get to a diminishing rewards value where adding additional cards adds complexity to your wallet for marginal if any additional rewards value. You may stagnate redemption options on any simple rewards program. We all have to choose where we draw the line between those two choices.

Agreed. It happening to me, my rewards programs are getting thin, even before adding a new card today.

Spend through cards is like water pressure. Turn on all your faucets and showers at once and you'll get low flow lol.

Re: Which card(s) to get?

Anonymous — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 19:37:08 GMT

@recoveringfrombk7 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I will be moving to college in July and will have expenses of around $3k during this time. So I figure this is a good time to hit some subs.

These are my current cards:
Discover it ....................$4,400
Amex Cash Magnet .....$9,900
Chase Freedom ............$2,500
Wells Fargo Propel .......$6,000
Citi Rewards+.................$3,400
This leaves me at 4/24
Age: Average is 1.4 years, oldest is 2.6 years
8 total accounts, 2 closed

Any advice is helpful!
Concur with @NRB525 posting above.

I also notice you say nothing about your income and expenses (monthly spend). I don't sense that you need new cards for furthering rewards value since there is no discussion about that. Your credit lines are already $26.2K and you already have five great cards with five of the largest major national card issuers, so an average of over $5K per card! As a college student, it sounds like you're already doing extremely well, credit-wise.

SUBs are nice but keeping the big picture about your credit file is even more important. It's easy to let the SUB-chasing get out of control. You're wise to be concerned about spooking creditors. Continuing to aggressively seek SUBs and open new accounts for which you have doubtful long-term value is a poor choice at this point, IMO. And if you're not going to be traveling, why app for a CSP when you already have a Propel card? Finding cards for which you have a long-term value that also give you a great SUB will always be the best compromise between SUBs and maintaining your credit score.

You have a young but very active credit profile. All those cards and loans and your AAoA is only 1.4 years? You have two years until graduation, so it's time to garden long-term. Relax, the card game will still be here when you get done. Your needs will change a lot after graduation and you may find you want to go in a completely different direction. Wouldn't it be nice to be 0/24 so that you could qualify for whatever cards you wanted, regardless of how selective the lender? It's a great position to be in. I've been there many times in my life. If anything, gardening is vastly underrated.

Good job putting together an awesome starting line-up.
Thank you for this. I just figure that since I'm going to be spending anyway, I may as well pick up a card I plan to get. I'll be paying for groceries and utilities for the first time, and those are both things I'll probably pay for forever. So both the BCE and Cash+ have lots of long term value and would allow me to save some money.

Would it be a bad idea to get just one of them? By the time I graduate I'd still be 0/24.
In one post you mention BCP 6% on groceries and then here you say BCE. Just be sure that if you go BCP that your spend justifies it, especially since you've said it's your first time buying groceries.

I would be going for the BCP first for the sub. I have been able to get the $300 sub in incognito, so if I'm able to get that then I would net $205 which is more than the BCE sub. So for the first year I'd effectively be getting 6% with no AF. Then after that I'll change it to the BCE.