topic Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation in Credit Cards

SUB chasing - point accumulation

drave199 — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:25:28 GMT

So I just wanted to get some advice from those of you who are nifty with taking advantage of point accumulation and SUB. I currently have the Amex Gold and a couple of cash back cards. I pretty much exclusively use my Gold and BCP cards and my chase freedom and BofA dont ever get used except at costco. I don't travel really ever but not to say I would in the future. I always see people using there points for their vacations and what not and Im thinking, how in the heck? My MR points right now are only at 65k which to me doesnt seem like a lot. But I've read on here some guy had over 40 CCs and valued his accumulated points around $80k. I obviously don't asspire to be at that level but if you could give some pointers on where to start to accumulate points for future endevours? Where to start? Having cards over multiple platforms a good idea (i.e. amex and chase)? Right now I am pre-approved for the CSP and SL of 10k but I dont think I would use it much since the Gold is more benifical and I dont travel but the SUB would give me a start I suppose. AF kind of sucks.

As far as SUB chasing, is that a real thing and is it smart? Obviously I don't necessarily want to add a bunch of new credit cards but maybe 1 or 2 more to get started. The other thing is that I have a couple large purchases happening soon (2-4k) that would cover spending requirements on SUB. I guess it doesn't make sense to get a card that I have no use for but for instance, the amex green card has a SUB of 45k right now and I could get that in one transaction and add to me MR point balance. Although the $150 AF but I would plan on canceling it when renewal hits as I really have no use for it otherwise.

I guess if you read between the lines you hopefully understand my question. I guess it gets down to this; Advice on if its smart to sign up for cards for SUB if the perks aren't something I'd utilize? Tips on how to get started at saving points for future events when I dont really travel now? Cards to target? Good idea to add hotel or airline CC at some point for transferring points?

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:36:55 GMT

Some ways to rack up reward points:

Referals to friends and relatives

Join Rakuten and choose Membership Rewards for your payback.

Get an Amex EveryDay Rewards card - no annual fee and you'll get a sign-up bonus.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

MrCreditInternational — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:40:40 GMT

I think Amex delta cards aren't bad at all, especially the platinum and reserve with their free annual companion tickets.

Also the Hilton cards have good SUBs (see the Hilton surpass, it gives you access to 10 Priority Pass lounges and it's only 99$ a year). Make sure you find a good sub tho (try incognito or referral link).

Otherwise, consider maybe BofA premium rewards, CSP, or maybe Citi premier.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

blindambition — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:45:26 GMT

You can also add legit authorized users to accrue points.

I don't suggest SUB chasing with current financial climate. Chase, Barclays, Amex have become very hawkish over the months.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 23:48:15 GMT

I'm not into SUB chasing, but I have been able to travel with the help of a couple of SUBs. Nevertheless, I recognize that someone of my lower spending habits/ability has to exercise some patience to pay for trips with rewards points. I accepted that as part of the territory when I apped for the cards.

For example, the first card I ever had that included a SUB was my Amex EveryDay. The SUB was 10k MR points for $1k spend, and I easily got it as I applied a few weeks before a major planned purchase that I put on the card. However, it took me more than 2 years to then get my MR point balance up enough to where I could pay for an overseas flight with the points. Most of this was regular spending that I was tracking to make sure I was not spending more than I would otherwise, and some of it was taking advantage of various Amex Offers that increased my usual earning potenital.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 23:54:54 GMT

The CSP or Citi Premier SUB should get you well on your way to a nice point accumulation start.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

drave199 — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:12:11 GMT

So would you say that getting the Amex green just for the SUB might not be a good move since I really have no use for it otherwise? I would literally hit the spending limit for the SUB in one transaction. Do the points stay if I did do this but cancel the card before the AF comes back up?

Im really tempted to do the CSP to get into the chase points but I cant fathom paying the AF after the first year when my GC is better for my spending habits. I had a 70k bonus offer a few months back to.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:20:00 GMT

@drave199 wrote:
So would you say that getting the Amex green just for the SUB might not be a good move since I really have no use for it otherwise? I would literally hit the spending limit for the SUB in one transaction. Do the points stay if I did do this but cancel the card before the AF comes back up?

Im really tempted to do the CSP to get into the chase points but I cant fathom paying the AF after the first year when my GC is better for my spending habits. I had a 70k bonus offer a few months back to.

If you have another MR card (like your gold) then points from the green will stay once you cancel. The issue is to prevent you looking like a sub chaser which may prevent you from getting more SUBs from Amex.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

drave199 — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:27:18 GMT

Makes sense. The only cards i would see myself getting from them in the future is an airline or hotel card. Or possibly upgrading to the Platnum but this is down the road for sure

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:54:13 GMT

@drave199 wrote:
Makes sense. The only cards i would see myself getting from them in the future is an airline or hotel card. Or possibly upgrading to the Platnum but this is down the road for sure

You could go for the Delta Gold with a 60k SUB for $2k spend. No AF the first year. Downgrade to the no AF Delta Blue after the first year. Or go for the no AF Hilton Honors card with 100k Hilton points for $1k spend in incognito mode.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 01:25:44 GMT

@drave199 wrote:
So would you say that getting the Amex green just for the SUB might not be a good move since I really have no use for it otherwise? I would literally hit the spending limit for the SUB in one transaction. Do the points stay if I did do this but cancel the card before the AF comes back up?

Im really tempted to do the CSP to get into the chase points but I cant fathom paying the AF after the first year when my GC is better for my spending habits. I had a 70k bonus offer a few months back to.

If you can get the green without the dreaded popup then for sure go for it. Just make sure you cancel after 12 months and not before. I would try to get a No af MR card like Amex ED or Amex BB if you dont plan to pay an af on gold or green to keep your points.

a lot of us are temporary banned from SUBs for whatever reason AMEX has. They are imo the most strictest in sub chasing nowadays.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

drave199 — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 03:10:55 GMT

Yeah I was getting the pop up but I then went incognito and it let me apply but I chickened out. I think I plan on keeping the gold for a while.

I am really close to pulling the trigger on the green for SUB.

I just bought something from amazon and it popped up "save $100 with instant approval of the prime cc". I almost applied for it haha. What's wrong with me

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 03:53:05 GMT

Be strategic. Are you under 5/24? Then I would pick out the Chase and Barclays cards I wanted first.

Try to pick "keeper cards" first before you pick cards simply for the SUB.

For example, the Chase World of Hyatt and IHG Premier cards are great. Free night certificates worth more than the annual fee, and nice SUBs.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Aim_High — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 05:42:10 GMT

@drave199 wrote:
So I just wanted to get some advice from those of you who are nifty with taking advantage of point accumulation and SUB. I currently have the Amex Gold and a couple of cash back cards. I pretty much exclusively use my Gold and BCP cards and my chase freedom and BofA dont ever get used except at costco. I don't travel really ever but not to say I would in the future. I always see people using there points for their vacations and what not and Im thinking, how in the heck? My MR points right now are only at 65k which to me doesnt seem like a lot. But I've read on here some guy had over 40 CCs and valued his accumulated points around $80k. I obviously don't asspire to be at that level but if you could give some pointers on where to start to accumulate points for future endevours? Where to start? Having cards over multiple platforms a good idea (i.e. amex and chase)? Right now I am pre-approved for the CSP and SL of 10k but I dont think I would use it much since the Gold is more benifical and I dont travel but the SUB would give me a start I suppose. AF kind of sucks.

As far as SUB chasing, is that a real thing and is it smart? Obviously I don't necessarily want to add a bunch of new credit cards but maybe 1 or 2 more to get started. The other thing is that I have a couple large purchases happening soon (2-4k) that would cover spending requirements on SUB. I guess it doesn't make sense to get a card that I have no use for but for instance, the amex green card has a SUB of 45k right now and I could get that in one transaction and add to me MR point balance. Although the $150 AF but I would plan on canceling it when renewal hits as I really have no use for it otherwise.

I guess if you read between the lines you hopefully understand my question. I guess it gets down to this; Advice on if its smart to sign up for cards for SUB if the perks aren't something I'd utilize? Tips on how to get started at saving points for future events when I dont really travel now? Cards to target? Good idea to add hotel or airline CC at some point for transferring points?

I'm going to take a different approach on this question. From your own description, you say more than once that you don't travel and don't have specific plans to do so in the future. Travel cards and points aren't for every consumer. Some of us are best just sticking to a solid cash-back strategy, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! It has its' advantages, just like travel/points has its' advantages (and disadvantages.) Travel cards and points work best for people who already travel a lot for business or pleasure and for consumers who have high levels of spending. Other people may have difficulty accumulating points quickly enough to be as effective, as you've observed. If you already have doubts, you definitely should not diversify between systems! Some people can do that but normally only with heavier travel patterns and lifestyle.

While travel cards and points often pay a higher "return" on your spending, they have these main disadvantages:

1) It normally takes longer to accumulate points for sufficient redemption value than for smaller cash-back redemptions.

2) Point systems can be easily devalued by the issuer over time.

3) The actual value you get for points may vary greatly, unlike cash which is straightforward and simple.

4) Points get best redemption value normally for travel; cash-back can be used for anything. Points are sometimes worth much less value for cash.

" ... since the Gold is more benifical and I dont travel ..." is a contradictory statement. You sound like you've accepted at face value that MR points are always worth 2ccp and therefore you theoretically get 8% back on dining out and groceries, better than other cards you've considered. Maybe. Maybe not. It appears you haven't actually redeemed any of those points yet, and getting 2ccp or more is not always a given. Not to mention that Gold is not more beneficial UNLESS you travel, because MRs are only worth 6/10 of a cent in cash, so that 4MRs is 2.4% return in cash, before you account for any portion of the $250 AF you aren't offsetting with credits. (And there are cards that pay 3% in cash value on those categories with no AF.) And ironically, you sound AF-averse in general, which makes me question whether even the Gold card much less other travel cards are a good match for you. And once again, there's nothing wrong with that! I just mention all this because I wonder if maybe it's time to reevaluate overall plans.

If you do decide to go for a SUB, I would suggest you have a more specific purpose for those points. A Delta airlines flight to Paris in business class? A week in a Marriott-branded beach resort hotel? A caribbean cruise on Royal Caribbean? A Southwest Airlines hop to Vegas with a rental car and hotel included? You get the idea. That can help you pick an appropriate points system and card(s) which might include MRs-URs-TYPs, or airline points or hotel points.

There are some decent travel cards that don't have the higher AFs and that are great for less-frequent travelers or those not ready to step up to the high-AF cards. Some I would suggest considering would be the Navy FCU Flagship which gets 3% cash-back on travel and 2% on everything else with $49 AF, the CITI Costco Visa which gets 4% on gas/3% on dining out-travel/2% Costco with no AF above regular Costco membership, or the Wells Fargo Propel AMEX which gets 3% on travel-dining out-gas with no AF. There are also good-value travel cards that only charge $95 AFs like the CSP or CITI Premier. As far as the "good cards" or points systems to target, or whether you should consider airline or hotel cards, it is all profile-dependent and you'll need to do an honest pre-assessment. IMO, airline and hotel-branded cards are really best for people who use them regularly for spending in the brand name where the returns are best. So if you don't fly Delta often, you'd probably be better off with a card that earns MR-UR-TYPs than a Delta Airlines card.

There are basically three schools of thought on SUB-chasing so you'll get different answers.

1) Values the SUB at all cost with no concern over long-term utility of the card.

2) Values equally the SUB and longer-term value of the card.

3) Values the card fully with little or no concern for the SUB.

I am in the middle. I try to get cards I will have a longer-term purpose for and don't SUB-chase just to SUB-chase. Not saying that is "right" or always best; it's just what I do. You have to decide where you feel most comfortable. SUBs are great and can be quite lucrative. However, as previously mentioned, SUB-chasing is frowned up by lenders and may draw negative attention from them if it is overdone. When done to excess, SUB-chasing can beat up your credit scores and litter your file with inquiries and new accounts that may hurt your chances of qualifying at all for credit you want in the future, or prevent you from getting the best APRs or best credit lines. Be strategic if you target SUBs.

I hope this is helpful and good luck deciding on your next move!

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Jccflat — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 13:06:48 GMT

Aim _high I see u are a expert in rewards

if I buy groceries in over 100k a year would u say I am better on 3% cash back for this category than the gold Amex I am using ?

As in value

also can I combine my spouse MR points with mine to place a travel purchase?

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

iced — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 18:46:19 GMT

@Jccflat wrote:

also can I combine my spouse MR points with mine to place a travel purchase?

You can't combine points into a single account, but you can book single tickets on different PNRs using each account's points. Of course, you run the risk of availability vanishing after the first purchase so plan ahead and make sure there's plenty of availability before doing it.

As for the general question, I would say that, when it comes to travel and points, the more you do it the easier it gets. There is no churning SUB strategy that is going to work consistently and repeatedly, especially with banks limiting the number of times you can attain a SUB.

If you are ok with scattershotting award travel 50k at a time, with two Y tickets on airline A here and 1 Y ticket on airline B next time, churning may well work for you. If you want a way to book award travel consistently using the same airline (a major issue for people living near hubs), churning alone just isn't going to cut it. Credit card points are best suited to supplement existing travel point accumulation, via flying and staying in hotels.

If you already fly 50k miles a year on one airline and stay 50 nights a year with one hotel brand, CC points are an excellent source of additional points for those programs you're already earning points in. If you rely on CC points exclusively for your travel budget and are a beer spender looking for a champaigne vacation on points, temper your expectations. In fact, cashback might be the better model for you here. Even then, don't expect life-changing amounts of cash to come flowing in. The people raking in tens of thousands are running an order of magnitude more than that in spend through cards; nobody is going to bank $10,000/year on SUBs by spending $5,000/year on cards.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Wed, 26 Feb 2020 20:30:41 GMT

@Jccflat wrote:
Aim _high I see u are a expert in rewards
if I buy groceries in over 100k a year would u say I am better on 3% cash back for this category than the gold Amex I am using ?
As in value
also can I combine my spouse MR points with mine to place a travel purchase?

Not AIM_high, but don't really need expertise. Assuming you get uncapped 3%, that earns $3000 in cash back. Using the gold, you get 175000 MR. So all down to how you redeem your MR, if you get more than 1.71cpp MR is better otherwise cashback, assuming you aren't paying the gold AF purely for grocery spend.

Where do you do the grocery spend, there might be better options?

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

drave199 — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 00:35:58 GMT

I have done some soul searching a bit since starting the thread. I have come to realize that I have no idea what I'm thinking or doing haha. The gold card is probably not the best card for my usage only becasue of the points systemand being a traveler. Most of my spending is at the grocery store and gas but I think I would actually net more if I only used my BCP. As far as MR points, I really dont have a plan for them in the near future and beyond. I guess I really never put enough thought into it other than I guess I'll just keep saving them and use them when I see fit. Still, I could eventually have a plan at some point for some travel but when is the question.

At this point unless I come up with a different plan by years end I think I will cancel my gold card and move on to maybe another cash back card say for resturants (suggestions for this??). I am pre-approved for a 9k SL for the Chase Freedom Unlimited with a $200 SUB that I'm thinking about doing. All this was brought up becasue I have several larger purchases coming up that I figured maybe I could take advantage of and get some points/cash back at the same time.

Suggestions on what to do with my MR points say I do decide to cancel? Otherwise any other suggestions? Thanks for all the replies!

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 01:25:01 GMT

I'll just add 1 thing to SUB chasing, because it's been covered well already. The only time I think SUB chasing is good is when you are expanding your card portfolio, such as going from 3 cards to 8 cards. And if you are going for cards that fit your needs, that's where it's best to chase SUBs. In that case you'll be getting 5 SUBs.

You might want to cover a bunch of things. Restaurants, gas, travel, general spend, rotating categories, online, and a card you want. That's what I've done. You can see my cards in my signature.

You have BoA cash rewards, a very flexible card. It can be your gas card, or restaurant card, or online card. 3% either way. If you don't travel much, make it your travel card. I have Propel for travel. For a cash back travel card, very difficult to beat. It has travel insurance, which BoA might not have. I have Savor for restaurants, PNC cash rewards for gas (a regional card), DC for general spend, BoA for online, CF and DISCOVER for rotating categories, and BCE for having an Amex.

Re: SUB chasing - point accumulation

Aim_High — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 22:01:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Jccflat wrote:
Aim _high I see u are a expert in rewards ...if I buy groceries in over 100k a year would u say I am better on 3% cash back for this category than the gold Amex I am using ? ...As in value ... also can I combine my spouse MR points with mine to place a travel purchase?
Not AIM_high, but don't really need expertise. Assuming you get uncapped 3%, that earns $3000 in cash back. Using the gold, you get 175000 MR. So all down to how you redeem your MR, if you get more than 1.71cpp MR is better otherwise cashback, assuming you aren't paying the gold AF purely for grocery spend.
Where do you do the grocery spend, there might be better options?

@iced wrote: You can't combine points into a single account, but you can book single tickets on different PNRs using each account's points. Of course, you run the risk of availability vanishing after the first purchase so plan ahead and make sure there's plenty of availability before doing it.

Thanks to @Anonymous and @icedfor those answers to @Jccflat in my absence.

Particularly on the 3% cash-back versus MR points question, it depends on a lot of factors, primarily how you would value the redemption of MRs not to mention if travel is more important to you than cash. And I agree that where you are spending is a consideration. If you have high grocery spend, there are many ways to get high cash-back value not to mention additional savings in terms of where you choose to shop. There is a wide variation of prices between leading supermarket chains (Albertson's, Kroger, Publix, Meijer, etc), warehouse clubs (Costco, Sams's, BJs), discount supermarkets (Aldi, Winco, Lidl), and other major grocery discounters (Walmart, Target).

If you opt for a cash-back strategy, you may be able to do better than 3% even. This thread has some good tips on cards that offer 3% or even more on groceries:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/What-is-the-Best-Groceries-Cash-Back-Card/td-p/5702309