topic Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE? in Credit Cards

Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Subexistence — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:17:29 GMT

I applied for my BCE 3 years ago. I upgraded it to a BCP 1 year ago to take advantage of upgrade bonus. I now want to downgrade it to avoid paying annual fee.

I'm not sure how worried I should be about them cancelling my card or clawing back my rewards. Could you guys chime in?

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:32:25 GMT

Keep it until the AF posts and then call to downgrade and they'll refund it. No claw backs that way.

You already had the card 2 years before you took this upgrade offer so I wouldn't be worried as long as you wait until the AF posts.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

elixerin — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:30:50 GMT

Doubt it, you mentioned taking an upgrade offer in which case i probably wouldn't worry at all(i assume it was a 0 intro AF offer).

AMEX did a public 0 intro AF offer on this card a while ago(i think)? and by that logic everyone who earned CB the first year but feel they didnt need or want the card the second year would be clawed back which is just nuts.

if it was a point upgrade offer, AMEX likes the 1 year with a card thing a whole lot so when AF posts i'd ring them up and mention that you would like to downgrade. You should be good to go with your BCE, points and refunded AF

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

EAJuggalo — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 00:37:35 GMT

I'd only worry about it if you've done something similar multiple times before. Call in as soon as the AF posts and let them know you just didn't see enough value in it to keep paying the fee. It's possible they let you keep it and waive the AF, they might give you a spend offer or they'll downgrade it.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

NRB525 — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:50:31 GMT

The title of the thread is a question, "should I downgrade", while the main question seems to be whether there is a concern with clawback?

If you wait till the AF posts then call, doubtful there would be problems on this card.

However, the AF gets you 6% on groceries, up to $6k. It doesn't look like you have any other grocery card, other than the Discover for 1 quarter.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

vic6string — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:45:26 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:

However, the AF gets you 6% on groceries, up to $6k. It doesn't look like you have any other grocery card, other than the Discover for 1 quarter.

You beat me to the punch. If you spend more than $266 per month on groceries, you actually come out ahead with the BCP even with the $95 fee. I am maried with 3 kids, so not only do I go past that, I go WAY past that. In fact, I use my disco for groceries when it is the 5% quarter because I know I am way above the 6k max for the year on Amex if I use it all 12 months.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Racer202 — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:35:57 GMT

right there with you on the grocery rewards. I also get good rewards at the pump and when i use the card to pay for my streaming services (netflix, hbonow). I live in the DC area and although right now i'm not taking public transport but prior to covid-19 i'd get good use on the 3% cash back on transit purchases too.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

kdm31091 — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 16:42:26 GMT

@vic6string wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:

However, the AF gets you 6% on groceries, up to $6k. It doesn't look like you have any other grocery card, other than the Discover for 1 quarter.
You beat me to the punch. If you spend more than $266 per month on groceries, you actually come out ahead with the BCP even with the $95 fee. I am maried with 3 kids, so not only do I go past that, I go WAY past that. In fact, I use my disco for groceries when it is the 5% quarter because I know I am way above the 6k max for the year on Amex if I use it all 12 months.

Like anything else with rewards programs it just depends. If you are single, you may not spend $266 a month on groceries. If you get a majority of your groceries at places like Target, Walmart, or Costco, the BCP will not help you, and it doesn't make sense to forego savings at discount stores just to get the 6% reward at a "real" grocery store. So it just depends where you shop.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:33:15 GMT

Tell me about it. If I didn't totally switch grocery stores, i wouldn't be earning the so-called 6%! Prior to my Amex relationship, I shopped mostly at Fred Meyer with my Rewards card that got 2X points, which wasn't bad as I was shopping for my disabled parent at the time.

However, Amex doesn't code right at Fred Meyer to get the then 3% on BCE. The only place that coded right for them was Safeway, so i had to totally swich places. And ever since i went BCP I've been raking in the CB. I spend on average about $250-300 a month just on food, and that's not counting the other categories such as streaming etc.

So it can definitely make sense if a person's spend is right, especially if you got the $250 SUB that covers 2.5 years of AF right off the bat.

Though if a person eats out quite frequently, I can see where the BCP wouldn't be useful. And I'm sure there are those who think SUBS should be for pocketing, and then walking away.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 18:01:47 GMT

@kdm31091 wrote:
@vic6string wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:

However, the AF gets you 6% on groceries, up to $6k. It doesn't look like you have any other grocery card, other than the Discover for 1 quarter.
You beat me to the punch. If you spend more than $266 per month on groceries, you actually come out ahead with the BCP even with the $95 fee. I am maried with 3 kids, so not only do I go past that, I go WAY past that. In fact, I use my disco for groceries when it is the 5% quarter because I know I am way above the 6k max for the year on Amex if I use it all 12 months.
Like anything else with rewards programs it just depends. If you are single, you may not spend $266 a month on groceries. If you get a majority of your groceries at places like Target, Walmart, or Costco, the BCP will not help you, and it doesn't make sense to forego savings at discount stores just to get the 6% reward at a "real" grocery store. So it just depends where you shop.

And there are other cases as well. I buy mainly at Whole Foods, where the Chase Amazon card already gives 5%, so certainly not worth paying $95 for a capped extra 1%. Elsewhere most of my other places take mobile pay, so I use Altitude, which is 4.5% when redeemed for travel and again the cap prevents the 1.5% being worth $95. And for slightly more inconvenience, you can buy a number of supermarket gift cards on Amazon (Albertsons/Safeway/ACME/Star/Shaws) for 5% off with prime card, so same would apply there.

The $X a month test often cited assumes the choice is BCE/BCP, whereas there are other choices.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Subexistence — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 01:49:17 GMT

I did get a cash bonus for upgrading my card a while back.

I live with my parents and they are buying our groceries at Costco so I have not touched the card ever since the Great Pandemic Crisis. I also have a free Netflix. I do not think I will spend enough this year to justify the BCP.

Most likely I will wait until AF posts then get it refunded.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

NRB525 — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 02:22:01 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Tell me about it. If I didn't totally switch grocery stores, i wouldn't be earning the so-called 6%! Prior to my Amex relationship, I shopped mostly at Fred Meyer with my Rewards card that got 2X points, which wasn't bad as I was shopping for my disabled parent at the time.

However, Amex doesn't code right at Fred Meyer to get the then 3% on BCE.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Fred Meyer CC earns 1% at Fred Meyer. They market it as getting "2%" at FM, but if you use any other card, and use your membership number, you get the base 1% in the quarterly FM program credit anyhow, plus the same fuel rewards.

Said more clearly, the FM card is 1% everywhere.

And yes, my experience is also that AMEX never codes grocery at Fred Meyer. Other Kroger grocers, no problem on AMEX.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 14:20:48 GMT

@vic6string wrote:
@NRB525 wrote:

However, the AF gets you 6% on groceries, up to $6k. It doesn't look like you have any other grocery card, other than the Discover for 1 quarter.
You beat me to the punch. If you spend more than $266 per month on groceries, you actually come out ahead with the BCP even with the $95 fee. I am maried with 3 kids, so not only do I go past that, I go WAY past that. In fact, I use my disco for groceries when it is the 5% quarter because I know I am way above the 6k max for the year on Amex if I use it all 12 months.

For someone with Discover, the breakeven to justify BCP is $316.67 per month.

$316.67 X 3 months Discover x 5% = $47.5 cash back

$316.67 X 9 months BCE X 3% = $85.5 cash back

For a total of $133 total

vs.

$316.67 X 12 months BCP X 6% = $228 cash back - $95 AF = $133 total

Note: for someone in the first year of Discover with cash match for effective 10% on groceries, BCP cannot beat BCE + Disco.

========

Same analysis for Chase Freedom quarterly 5% on groceries. If it's a different quarter than Discover, the breakeven goes to $396 per month.

For someone who also can mix in 5% back at Target or 5% back at Whole Foods with the Red Card or Amazon Prime Card, the breakeven spend goes even higher to justify BCP.

==========

Frankly, for families who spend a ton on groceries and take one family vacation per year, Amex Gold beats the crud out of BCP. $25K cap and effective 7% returns with transfer partners. This assumes that you use the $100 airline incidental and half of the restaurant credits to even out the AF.

Hell, the new Citi Premier 3X TYP (effective 5% with transfer partners) on groceries in August for $95 AF beats BCP for families spending more than $7.5K per year on groceries:

$6K at 6% + $1.5K at 1% = $375 cash back before AF on BCE

$7.5K at 5% = $375 cash back before AF on Premier

Note: we don't know if there will be a spending cap on Premier.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

budugu — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 02:36:10 GMT

However, Amex doesn't code right at Fred Meyer to get the then 3% on BCE.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Fred Meyer CC earns 1% at Fred Meyer. They market it as getting "2%" at FM, but if you use any other card, and use your membership number, you get the base 1% in the quarterly FM program credit anyhow, plus the same fuel rewards.

Said more clearly, the FM card is 1% everywhere.
And yes, my experience is also that AMEX never codes grocery at Fred Meyer. Other Kroger grocers, no problem on AMEX.

Does QFC code as grocery? I know it is a Kroger brand. Safeway / Shoprite code as grocery

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

NRB525 — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:38:09 GMT

@budugu wrote:

However, Amex doesn't code right at Fred Meyer to get the then 3% on BCE.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Fred Meyer CC earns 1% at Fred Meyer. They market it as getting "2%" at FM, but if you use any other card, and use your membership number, you get the base 1% in the quarterly FM program credit anyhow, plus the same fuel rewards.

Said more clearly, the FM card is 1% everywhere.
And yes, my experience is also that AMEX never codes grocery at Fred Meyer. Other Kroger grocers, no problem on AMEX.

Does QFC code as grocery? I know it is a Kroger brand. Safeway / Shoprite code as grocery

Yes, QFC is grocery.

Ralph's is grocery.

City Market in Colorado is grocery.

Fred Meyer is not grocery.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

vic6string — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 14:51:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

Note: for someone in the first year of Discover with cash match for effective 10% on groceries, BCP cannot beat BCE + Disco.

You are assuming the spending numbers you posted, which is quite low for some folks. I am on my first year Disco, and I maxed the grocery quarter, but I will still hit my 6k limit on groceries for BCP in the other 9 months. I easily spend $150-200 per week on groceries, and while I am sure I might be able to save a little buying at Walmart instead of Publix, I HATE walking into my local Walmart. So if you buy a substantial amount of groceries, and the store you choose to go to registers as a supermarket, the BCP is an amazing cash back card, even with a first year Disco in your wallet.

As for the Amex Gold, that is an entirely different animal. Most people are either cash back people or points people. We don't travel a whole lot, and when we do, I simply don't want to go through any hoops to plan my trips. I am a cash back guy. I have one cash back card for my utilities (and Costco since it is my only Visa), one for eating out and entertainment, one for groceries and gas, and one for everything else. Add in the Disco where I just max the category when I can and it is a nice little ecosystem.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

elixerin — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 15:40:37 GMT

yea everyone has a different need and their spend lines accordingly. You say hoops in obtaining value from Gold i say theres more possible value in Gold for a $30 EAF, reward currency that can be used for travel 1-5cpp, CASH (money deposit in acct)1.25cpp, and a plethora of other redemptions but these are probably the best use cases.

for $95 getting just a 3-6% rebate on the next grocery/gas store purchase to me personally isn't obtaining the MOST value, since November i've earned 1k+ Cash Magnet reward dollars, can only redeem for statement credit 🤷‍♂️On the Contrary, since Jan i also earned 360k+ MR points.

I'll let you decide. Would you prefer a $4500+ cash deposit into account(or travel worth a minimum of $3600 but with right use easily $6000+, theres quite the options regardless).

OR just $1000+ off your next purchase/purchases? Extreme case but def can be applied to anyone, esp with the Gold vs BCP (mine were earned from BBP and Plat, families will kill it on gold/25K yearly cap which probably wont be reached for most households).

Cant argue with Disco 10% first year, good move putting groceries there for sure. People willing to put slightly more effort will get that msrginally higher reward in return, also sometimes being simple in the game is the biggest and smartest move. A one and done Cash back works for a lot rather well. Just make sure when you start dumping AF's for it though it genuinely makes sense, only you could know!

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

notmyrealname23 — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 16:11:23 GMT

@elixerin wrote:
yea everyone has a different need and their spend lines accordingly. You say hoops in obtaining value from Gold i say theres more possible value in Gold for a $30 EAF, reward currency that can be used for travel 1-5cpp, CASH (money deposit in acct)1.25cpp, and a plethora of other redemptions but these are probably the best use cases.

Doesn't being able to pull out AMEX for cash at 1.25 cpp require Schwab Platinum, so another $550 AF? Or is there another way to get that? If there is I am keen to find out; Platinum doesn't work as well for my spend patterns as Green does.

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

elixerin — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:10:25 GMT

yes thats correct im out of pocket $80 after a year with just credits (Vanilla downgrade to gold + Schwab AF) excluding tsa/global entry, lounge hotel status + access, welcome bonus and spend points.

I recently have been managing to make use of the credits without really trying. Airfare Reimb. on the Vanilla has been used, going for Schwab in May, with welcome bonuses, double dip saks + monthly uber credit for my $1100 initial investment for the year im looking at $6000+ in CASH value just by July 2020 with these two (might even travel with it at higher value who knows, expanding options never hurt).

To me this type of reward system is extremely rewarding and unbeatable(no relationship to top it off). I started with Cash magnet to get my relationship with amex but now wish i had gone for an ED. Bright side is now i can apply ED whenever a BT is needed so i guess it's not all bad

man though MR > Reward dollars all de way.

year 2 onward im going to be "requiring" 64,000 MR points*0.0125=$800 to break even if i dont do anything for the cards credits or even "use" the card period for the whole year. as long as i spend 32k on BBP 16k on gold or 12.8k Plat on their respective categories in a year i know im not being "played" by the banks. With credits (which im very up-to-neck about) i can use yearly im looking at $80 out of pocket like mentioned prior, meaning if i can't earn more than 6,400*1.25cpp MINIMUM points in a year. Then yes, i've officially lost

lol pruding aside, running down the numbers just makes ME feel better about the initial investment. Honestly there's so many perks that ive also come to experience in the 3 months i've had the Platinum (i went to a lot of lounges in jan-feb, i ACTUALLY USED a delayed trip reimb. and was reimbursed up to $500 (i just used 3-400 of it but man the free night and food was amazing), best feeling is when you walk into lounges or plop the card to pay for things the expression people give of "this guy's parents are around the corner, just wait" is priceless. i'd pay 800 a YEAR for this alone haha heres to even more good experiences

Re: Should I downgrade my BCP to BCE?

KJinNC — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:58:01 GMT

I just convert MRs to SkyMiles. I do like SkyMiles. But I don't think they're worth much more than a penny each most of the time. I have spent a couple of hours trying to figure out how to get one of these much higher redemption values that people talk about, and I don't see it, unless you are willing to (for example) fly to Dubai on a particular date to capitalize on it. Maybe it's easier than I think, but it's certainly nowhere near cashback-easy. JMO!