topic Re: High Score and Declined in Credit Cards

High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:26:24 GMT

I cannot begin to tell you have disappointed I am in the credit system in the wonderful US of A.

I have reaised my scores with all credit agencies EQ768 EX 769 TU 690. My score was less than perfect in the past, but I have managed to clean a few errors and improve my score by getting a 1st Premier Credit Card since I have not used credit much in the past. Even with high scores since both credit card companies checked Experian and Equifax only which are my highest, what gives? Is this scoring by myFico, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion a scam to get people to subscribe to think they are raising their scores while the creditors still do not accept a high score. Perhaps my scores should be much less??? All I know is that this world of credit reports and scoring needs regulation badly, many mysterious and illegal things going on and the consumer is always left holding the bag.

Re: High Score and Declined

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:39:01 GMT

Hi, welcome to the forums.

If you haven't already, please read Understanding Your FICO ® Score and Credit Scoring 101 (at least the first post.)

These will give you the background knowledge you need to understand what you read here on the forums.

Unless you have applied for a mortgage recently, your scores are probably FAKO's. Did you get them from a credit monitoring service? I ask because Experian has not allowed consumers to buy (and know) their own Experian FICO scores since this past February 13.

Many FAKO scores are higher than the actual FICO's; many are lower. It depends on which type of FAKO you have, and even then, they could be either higher or lower than your FICO's. FAKO's are incredibly variable.

If you are interested in seeing the scores that your lenders see, you can buy your FICO EQ and FICO TU here at myFICO. You can also buy your EQ FICO from Equifax's website, and you can buy your TU FICO from a special TransUnion site, www.transunioncs.com. Note the -cs at the end --it's not the regular TransUnion site.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:50:05 GMT

If you read my blog, you can see that it was infact the Equifax Credit Report with a score of 768 that the creditor used, in this case American Express. It seems AMEX doesn't pay attention to the scores, so they mean zero. I have read everything on this website from front to cover, myFico is fako as well.

If you can explain why I was declined credit with a Fico score of 768, please do so and not mention my high horse. I am trying to make a point for people to read, not sell a product!

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:50:59 GMT

Hi Robby! Welcome aboard.

A lending decision is not usually made by credit score alone. Your actual credit history will weigh just as much, if not more than the score itself. The subject line indicates that you were declined for a credit product(s)-- I'm assuming it was a credit card (correct me if I'm wrong). Each lender has standards & sensitivities that are different from the next lender. There is also lending variation by product with a single lender.

You noted that you've had some credit blemishes in the past. Depending on what those baddies are (any that are still reporting), some lenders will be tolerant of them, and some won't. And, what some find as a show-stopper today, will be a non-issue next year. New credit, too many INQs, credit lines too low, low AAoA, certain kinds of baddies, too recent baddies, reported income too low, the presence of a mortgage, not having a mortgage, having too many open revolving accounts, having too few open revolving accounts, etc... etc... are just a few of the reasons why a lender might turn down an applicant with higher scores.

I also noticed that you posted all three scores. Where did you get them from? The Experian FICO score can no longer be purchased by consumers, so I'm wondering if the scores that you have are FAKOs? The differences between your FICO scores, and the scores that you get directly from the CRAs are not co-related, and can vary wildly. Most lenders use some version of FICO scores.

I know how disappointing it is to be denied credit, but perhaps if you can give us more detail about your credit situation we'll be able to give you some BTDT advice.

robbyny wrote:
I cannot begin to tell you have disappointed I am in the credit system in the wonderful US of A.
I have reaised my scores with all credit agencies EQ768 EX 769 TU 690. My score was less than perfect in the past, but I have managed to clean a few errors and improve my score by getting a 1st Premier Credit Card since I have not used credit much in the past. Even with high scores since both credit card companies checked Experian and Equifax only which are my highest, what gives? Is this scoring by myFico, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion a scam to get people to subscribe to think they are raising their scores while the creditors still do not accept a high score. Perhaps my scores should be much less??? All I know is that this world of credit reports and scoring needs regulation badly, many mysterious and illegal things going on and the consumer is always left holding the bag.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:59:00 GMT

Perhaps the problem is that you didn't meet Amex's lending criteria outside of the actual score. You stated that you've read everything on this website, so you've probably seen that the recent tear that AMEX has been on, cutting the credit lines of even our FICO high achievers (long standing), and outright closing lots of accounts because, in spite of credit scores, they no longer met Amex's adjusted model of creditworthiness, or they got caught in Amex's wide net of exposure reduction.

Again, your score is just one aspect of a lending decision. Why did AMEX say you were declined?

robbyny wrote:
If you read my blog, you can see that it was infact the Equifax Credit Report with a score of 768 that the creditor used, in this case American Express. It seems AMEX doesn't pay attention to the scores, so they mean zero. I have read everything on this website from front to cover, myFico is fako as well.
If you can explain why I was declined credit with a Fico score of 768, please do so and not mention my high horse. I am trying to make a point for people to read, not sell a product!

Re: High Score and Declined

2wheel — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:07:52 GMT

I was declined for a Amex card the first time around Score around 735 I had a recent baddie for them it was 4 yrs old at the time but it was a bad reflection in Amex eyes. I was approved for other cards but not them.

Re: High Score and Declined

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:19:10 GMT

robbyny wrote:

If you read my blog, you can see that it was infact the Equifax Credit Report with a score of 768 that the creditor used, in this case American Express. It seems AMEX doesn't pay attention to the scores, so they mean zero. I have read everything on this website from front to cover, myFico is fako as well.
If you can explain why I was declined credit with a Fico score of 768, please do so and not mention my high horse. I am trying to make a point for people to read, not sell a product!

Just wanted to let you know that the "high horse" bit is part of my siggy (signature.) It pops up under all my posts. I wasn't accusing you of anything.

I'm also not selling a product. All moderators here are volunteers.

Sorry to hear that AmEx declined you with that Equifax score. They must have changed recently. They have almost always pulled Experian throughout the years.

Re: High Score and Declined

Woolfman — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:38:50 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
If you read my blog, you can see that it was infact the Equifax Credit Report with a score of 768 that the creditor used, in this case American Express. It seems AMEX doesn't pay attention to the scores, so they mean zero. I have read everything on this website from front to cover, myFico is fako as well.
If you can explain why I was declined credit with a Fico score of 768, please do so and not mention my high horse. I am trying to make a point for people to read, not sell a product!

Ok so im slow and everyone said what i said before me!!! hehe

Keep in mind the response you got was that person trying to help you and not look down on you. The high horse comment is in the signature of his post . Meaning its always there and was not directed at YOU and Mods are just people like me and you that come here often and are not Employees of Myfico .

Anyways, lenders do not just go off your score . They look at your credit history , The age of the accounts, How many accounts. What your utility is . All sorts of things go into the decision. The negatives on your history . These are all factors. On top of it as someone else pointed out .. AMEX has been really picky lately.

I hope you find the forums here helpful in understanding the ins and outs of a fico score and credit in a whole.

Message Edited by Woolfman on 07-22-2009 01:38 PM

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:44:07 GMT

Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

Re: High Score and Declined

MidnightVoice — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:53:58 GMT

robbyny wrote:
The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

It is in line - it is what the creditors actually use! But right now, even people with very good credit are getting turned down, and Amex is very, very twitchy. For example, I will not consider asking Amex for a CLI until about a year after the recession ends

Re: High Score and Declined

JoeBJay20 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:54:56 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

As others have said, your FICO score is only a single variable in a decision to lend credit. A high score in itself is not a ticket to automatic credit approvals. There could be other things in your credit history that didn't sit well with AMEX. Perhaps it was a lingering baddie, perhaps it was too little current revolving credit, but regardless, these things do happen. There was a thread a day or two ago about someone getting denied a credit card with a 798 score. Each lender is going to look at more than just your raw score in making a decision, and occasionally even with top scores you could fail to meet all of the qualifying criteria.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:58:15 GMT

Robby,

Your FICO score is 'degree of risk of default' score. It does not determine when, if, or how you obtain credit-- lenders determine that. One of the tools that lenders can use to determine whether or not to lend to you is your FICO score. A FICO score isn't meaningless if you're denied credit when you have a high score. It's just evidence that your overall credit picture is being weighed-- not just the score. Some people are immediately eliminated based upon score alone, meaning that their risk of default is too high, and none of the other factors will outweigh that. Other people would meet the score requirements only to get denied for other reasons/criteria not met.

Your FICO score doesn't address all of the possible creditworthiness criteria that any one lender may have. It's just one aspect of the overall lending decision. What reason did Amex give you for your denial?

robbyny wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

Re: High Score and Declined

Watchmann — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:59:15 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

The credit system got itself into a lot of problems by relying too much on the FICO score. Now, a high FICO score is only one piece of the picture that the credit grantor wants to look at. Something must have been seen in your history that AMEX did not like. I think you are right in that the FICO system is probably too high (like grade inflation) when compared to the real risk of some people with pretty high scores. The credit system is always moving, like a pendulum on a clock, to adjust itself to the perceived risk of the moment. Right now everyone is super sensitive. Charge offs are approaching 10% which are levels that have never been seen, with projections they could go even higher. CCC's are understandably gun shy right now. They don't want to get caught again with bad loans. The current system isn't all bad in that it has faciliated lots of very affordable credit to millions of people over the years. We could go back to sitting across from your local banker with them giving you the stinkeye when you ask for some money so your kid can get their braces, but those old enough to remember don't want to go back there. The credit system is still healing and standards will be tougher going forward. All the more reason to keep your spending within your salary levels and use credit wisely.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:18:00 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

The answer is:

Your credit score is NOT the only factor but is one ingredient in the recipe of extending you credit. There are other factors that are very important.

You CAN have a 750 Score but only make 1,000 a month which will not get you financed.

Factors include:

Gross income
Net income

Time on Job

Time at current address

How long your credit file has been opened

How long your credit lines have been opened

How many credit inquiries you have made in a certain time period

What your current credit line MIX is

There are many many others, and each company has their own criteria and expectation levels before they extend you money.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:46:30 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Thanks for all the quick replies and honestly I do understand that my credit report is certainly part of the approval process. The point I am trying to make is that how can Fico give me a score of 768 according to my Equifax Credit Report which is very high and yet I am declined credit. My suggestion is perhaps Fico's scoring system is way to generous for the consumer misleading them to think they can obtain credit when in fact they cannot. The scoring system shoud be in line with the world of creditors or shoud not exist at all if it means nothing when obtaining credit. My opinion is they all all FAKO scores, not just Experian but Equifax and TransUnion using Fico. I am very dismayed by this system.

An AMEX card is very hard to get. While your scores are good, they may not be good enough. I was recently approved for an AMEX card but my scores are 794 and 808. It may be that in this credit climate you need high 700 scores to get an AMEX card. Just a thought.

It doesn't mean the scores on MyFICO are FAKO, it's just means the standard may be a bit higher than you expected.

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 23:39:29 GMT

Thin credit files will frequently lead to inflated FICO scores which are not indicative of your actual credit status. For this reason (as well as others) lenders will look at many factors in addition to your FICO score.

FYI - Under the Credit CARD Act of 2009 lender are required to consider "ability to repay" when considering all credit requests. So even if a lender used to rely solely on FICO scoring (which is very doubtful) they will not be able to continue to do so in the future.

? - What was the stated reason for your denials?

Message Edited by creditwherecreditisdue on 07-22-2009 07:39 PM

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:28:33 GMT

I read many people saying you can't get FICO scores for all 3. What about www.truecredit.com? Is that FAKO score? I signed up today for the $14.95 a month plan and it had all 3 credit reports and all 3 credit scores which all seem to be real FICO scores...is that not correct? My TU score was the actual FICO score not the FAKO score that I saw on the Transunion website.

Re: High Score and Declined

haulingthescoreup — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:06:19 GMT

prioritybubble wrote:
I read many people saying you can't get FICO scores for all 3. What about www.truecredit.com? Is that FAKO score? I signed up today for the $14.95 a month plan and it had all 3 credit reports and all 3 credit scores which all seem to be real FICO scores...is that not correct? My TU score was the actual FICO score not the FAKO score that I saw on the Transunion website.

No, truecredit.com gives FAKO "TransRisk" scores, including their TU score.

It's possible that your TC TU score accidentally matched your FICO TU score, but I repeat, that's accidental.

It takes some hunting, but this is at the bottom of the "Credit Scores" tab on TC, in eensie, pale grey type:

Additional Information

The TransUnion TransRisk New Account Credit Score is provided to help you better understand how lenders view your credit report. It is not an endorsement or a determination of your qualification for a loan. Lenders use credit scores to help determine whether or not you are a good candidate for a loan and what interest rate you will pay. However, each lender has specific underwriting standards, so you should not assume that you will receive the same evaluation from each lender. As part of the underwriting process, they will incorporate additional information you provide and may obtain references. In addition, even if you are approved, the terms and conditions of loans vary from lender to lender. The information used to determine your credit score comes from TransUnion, one of the major credit bureaus. Credit reports are a compilation of credit information that is reported to the bureaus by the various lending institutions with which you have accounts. The information contained in your report reflects the latest information provided. If you recently made a payment, opened a new account, or authorized an inquiry, it may not yet be reflected in the credit report you receive. Likewise, it will not be reflected in your credit score. Also, disputed items are not incorporated in the assessment of your credit score. Your credit score will change each time new information is captured in your record. TrueLink is not connected in any way with Fair, Isaac and Company; the credit score provided here is not a so-called FICO score. The credit scores of TransUnion may not be identical in every respect to any consumer credit scores produced by any other company.

(emphasis mine)

Message Edited by haulingthescoreup on 07-22-2009 07:06 PM

Re: High Score and Declined

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:17:11 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I cannot begin to tell you have disappointed I am in the credit system in the wonderful US of A.
I have reaised my scores with all credit agencies EQ768 EX 769 TU 690. My score was less than perfect in the past, but I have managed to clean a few errors and improve my score by getting a 1st Premier Credit Card since I have not used credit much in the past. Even with high scores since both credit card companies checked Experian and Equifax only which are my highest, what gives? Is this scoring by myFico, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion a scam to get people to subscribe to think they are raising their scores while the creditors still do not accept a high score. Perhaps my scores should be much less??? All I know is that this world of credit reports and scoring needs regulation badly, many mysterious and illegal things going on and the consumer is always left holding the bag.

FICO is a score. And a score is just that, grades the "content" of your CR.

In school, say the 8th grade, you may get a 100% score and A+ grade on your final, but this does not mean that test grade will gain you acceptance to Yale.

An A+ grade or a high score is relative to what is being scored.

You mentioned past derogatories and also mentioned current credit is First Premier. The fact that you have cleaned the report and have perfect current credit may earn you a high score, but that score does not necessarily mean a whole lot to every creditor.

Those creditors also want to see length of credit, breadth of credit, higher CL's (especially AMEX) and mix of credit.

You might say, AMEX is Yale. And they want to see your SAT scores and entire high school transcripts along with GPA. They will compare that GPA to what courses you took (say basket weaving as compared to Advanced/College Prep Science and Math). They may also want to see what other extra curricular or community activities and associations you had (mix) in evaluating your application.

So, you can get an A and high score in general studies or basket weave, but Yale won't be impressed in the least.

Message Edited by txjohn on 07-22-2009 07:17 PM

Re: High Score and Declined

marty56 — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:17:33 GMT

AE is known to blacklist so did you have a product with them in the past?

AE closed my card when I went into DMP event though I never had a problem with them or any CC for that matter at the time. This was 6 years ago. These days, its probably worse.