topic Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!? in Credit Cards

Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

NJCasper — Sat, 30 May 2020 13:43:56 GMT

Citibank slashed the credit lines on both my cards, making the limit on them slightly above my current balance. In the letter, they listed the reasons - Too many recent increases in balanes; average balances too high, report shows too many inquiries, too many recently opened accounts, balances vs limits too high. But the thing that really got me, was a weird score they got. They said I could contact Trans Union.. so must be a TU score.. yet MYFICO claims its hanging at 655; while Citibank says "the consumer agency above provided us with your credit score of 332 as of May 12" and it says scores can range from 1 to 2500... what is this about. Is Myfico not giving us the right scores is this another of those fako ones - I though this service was legit. Or am I missing something here?

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

thornback — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:00:43 GMT

Sorry about your reduced credit lines.

There is no FICO version that has a high end range of 2500. The scores provided by myFICO are actual FICO scores. There is also no Vantage score that goes to 2500.

The score noted in your letter from Citi is calculated based off Transunion data, but is not a FICO score. Perhaps it's an internal score developed by Citi - most creditors have an internal scoring model that is used in addition to FICO.

Or - it could be one of Transunions Risk Scoring models - though the highest end range I've seen published for those is 999.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

GApeachy — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:16:26 GMT

So sorry this happened, but score or no score are the reasons listed accurate? Have you been carrying high balances on multiple cards for a long time? They may be balance chasing you for fear of default if those reason are legit. Just asking for dp's sake.

@NJCasper wrote:
In the letter, they listed the reasons - Too many recent increases in balanes; average balances too high, report shows too many inquiries, too many recently opened accounts, balances vs limits too high.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

CreditCrusader — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:17:29 GMT

That odd range that you received is not at all uncommon. I've personally seen a variety of score ranges that do not reflect the 300-850 FICO model.

On a related note, I've always been curious about the "90% of creditors use the FICO model" verbiage routinely passed along here. Frankly, that has not been my experience. I've had a near-equal mix of multiple Vantage and FICO versions given to me by multiple CCCs over the years. I think that "90% of mortgage lenders and top-line CCCs like AMEX, Discover, and BOA use FICO scores" is a bit more accurate...and even those top-line lenders toss FAKOs into the mix.

All that having been said, I'm sorry to read of your reduced line. These are indeed trying times relative to a great many things, including credit.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Remedios — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:28:21 GMT

@NJCasper wrote:
Citibank slashed the credit lines on both my cards, making the limit on them slightly above my current balance. In the letter, they listed the reasons - Too many recent increases in balanes; average balances too high, report shows too many inquiries, too many recently opened accounts, balances vs limits too high. But the thing that really got me, was a weird score they got. They said I could contact Trans Union.. so must be a TU score.. yet MYFICO claims its hanging at 655; while Citibank says "the consumer agency above provided us with your credit score of 332 as of May 12" and it says scores can range from 1 to 2500... what is this about. Is Myfico not giving us the right scores is this another of those fako ones - I though this service was legit. Or am I missing something here?

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Typically, the first reason or two are what led to AA.

Your letter, regardless of the score used, indicates your balances are not going down (on Citi cards), and that there is high utilization on other cards.

Rest of it (inquiries, negatives, new accounts etc) is just compounding to the problem.

Sometimes balance chasing results in cards being closed, and other times it stops when balances are paid down significantly.

Because of balance chasing, your cards are now maxed out. If you can, pay as much as possible. I'm not sure if you can salvage Citi cards, but paying them down could prevent avalanche of AA from other lenders because your scores will suffer, and maxed cards indicate financial distress.

I wouldn't worry about that score at the moment, just focus on reducing balances.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

kerplunk — Sat, 30 May 2020 14:52:31 GMT

@CreditCrusader wrote:
That odd range that you received is not at all uncommon. I've personally seen a variety of score ranges that do not reflect the 300-850 FICO model.

On a related note, I've always been curious about the "90% of creditors use the FICO model" verbiage routinely passed along here. Frankly, that has not been my experience. I've had a near-equal mix of multiple Vantage and FICO versions given to me by multiple CCCs over the years. I think that "90% of mortgage lenders and top-line CCCs like AMEX, Discover, and BOA use FICO scores" is a bit more accurate...and even those top-line lenders toss FAKOs into the mix.

All that having been said, I'm sorry to read of your reduced line. These are indeed trying times relative to a great many things, including credit.

You may be confusing what lenders use versus what they give you access to. Just because you can see a VantageScore on their online portal does not mean they use that themselves.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

CreditCrusader — Sat, 30 May 2020 15:04:34 GMT

@kerplunk wrote:
@CreditCrusader wrote:
That odd range that you received is not at all uncommon. I've personally seen a variety of score ranges that do not reflect the 300-850 FICO model.

On a related note, I've always been curious about the "90% of creditors use the FICO model" verbiage routinely passed along here. Frankly, that has not been my experience. I've had a near-equal mix of multiple Vantage and FICO versions given to me by multiple CCCs over the years. I think that "90% of mortgage lenders and top-line CCCs like AMEX, Discover, and BOA use FICO scores" is a bit more accurate...and even those top-line lenders toss FAKOs into the mix.

All that having been said, I'm sorry to read of your reduced line. These are indeed trying times relative to a great many things, including credit.
You may be confusing what lenders use versus what they give you access to. Just because you can see a VantageScore on their online portal does not mean they use that themselves.

I'm not confusing anything. I've seen the scores, ranges and score model names on the letters for years...and I know full well the difference between the FAKO scores many CCCs give you and FICO scores (though they are sometimes congruent).

Now, it's worth pointing out that I do not use AMEX, BOA, Citi or Discover, even when I get offers. My credit is a pretty wide mix relative to lenders, but I choose those who give me the least hassle as the years pass as opposed to those who would pad my UTIL and obscure balances carried for FICO scoring purposes.

My point was that tossing "90%" out is likely more reflective of TOP-TIER CCCs and mortgage lenders, not the credit industry as a whole. My experience differs from others...and I doubt that I'm on an island by myself with that.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Jordan23ww — Sat, 30 May 2020 15:07:22 GMT

I'm so sorry this happened to you! It is really upsetting when a company cuts your limit. I had all my cards at 100% utilization before and despite having 100% payment history with them I experienced something similar. I decided to borrow some money from my 401k and decided to use that to pay down my card balances. At the time I had 4 cards and all were maxed out. I could either pay off 3 of them completely and a little of the 4th one or I could make a huge dent on just the 4th one. I had a limit of $14,500 on the 4th one (my highest limit) and when I paid it down to $2500 Wells Fargo immediately reduced my limit to $2500. Felt like a huge slap in the face. I was like I should've just paid the other 3 off! When I got a letter from WF they listed some of the same reasons Citi gave you: my average balances were too high and my balances vs my limits were too high. It felt unfair. Sorry that you have experienced something similar. Hopefully you can get your balances paid down and in time have your limits grow back to what they were and even higher!

@NJCasper wrote:
they listed the reasons - Too many recent increases in balanes; average balances too high, report shows too many inquiries, too many recently opened accounts, balances vs limits too high.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

M_Smart007 — Sat, 30 May 2020 15:56:59 GMT

OP. sorry for your AA

You are being balance chased.

lenders are very nervous right now!

Post #5 sums it up very well.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Wavester64 — Sat, 30 May 2020 16:30:55 GMT

@NJCasper

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Red1Blue — Sat, 30 May 2020 16:34:59 GMT

OP, I am sorry to hear about your CLD. May be you can call them and see if they would restore the limit. Right now due to the economic down turn every lender is reducing their exposure. Try giving them a call and see if they can restore your limit. Good luck.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Remedios — Sat, 30 May 2020 16:49:18 GMT

@Red1Blue wrote:
OP, I am sorry to hear about your CLD. May be you can call them and see if they would restore the limit. Right now due to the economic down turn every lender is reducing their exposure. Try giving them a call and see if they can restore your limit. Good luck.

You keep saying that as if it doesn't happen without "economic downturn" cliche.

This is normal behavior for lenders when balances do not appear like they will get paid, or when they are increasing while making minimum payments or close to it.

Lenders are willing to tolerate balance (and collect interest) as long as customer doesnt appear to be heading straight for the default.

The whole point of balance chasing is to prevent additional charges being made.

It's unpleasant, but it's how it always worked.

We're not helping anyone by pretending that any and all credit issues are somehow related to today's issues.

In majority of balance chasing cases, issues leading to it started long time ago.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Anonymous — Sat, 30 May 2020 17:08:09 GMT

In this instance calling them isn't going to work IMO, unless you're calling to make a large payment. Amex restored CL's are very different, it was likely due to non use or very little on a large CL. So by calling in one might indeed get the limit restored. I highly doubt any Lender is going to restore a CL with increasing balances though.

The only way to fix this is to pay the balances down and give it time. If you don't the rising UT is only going to compound the problem of lowering you score and possible AA from other Lenders.

Good Luck OP!

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Anonymous — Sat, 30 May 2020 17:10:18 GMT

@NJCasper wrote:
Citibank slashed the credit lines on both my cards, making the limit on them slightly above my current balance ...

I remember the feeling of getting that notice for the 1st time -- yuck! The ironic part, in my case, was for the many months prior they had been sending me convenience checks, like clockwork, and raising my CL. "Oh, okay, they must really want me to use this card."

Btw, my balance-chasing happened during an economic upturn.

The good news is now that you know what's up, once you get square, you always can ghost them.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

elixerin — Sat, 30 May 2020 17:11:51 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@Red1Blue wrote:
OP, I am sorry to hear about your CLD. May be you can call them and see if they would restore the limit. Right now due to the economic down turn every lender is reducing their exposure. Try giving them a call and see if they can restore your limit. Good luck.

You keep saying that as if it doesn't happen without "economic downturn" cliche.
This is normal behavior for lenders when balances do not appear like they will get paid, or when they are increasing while making minimum payments or close to it.

Lenders are willing to tolerate balance (and collect interest) as long as customer doesnt appear to be heading straight for the default.

The whole point of balance chasing is to prevent additional charges being made.
It's unpleasant, but it's how it always worked.

We're not helping anyone by pretending that any and all credit issues are somehow related to today's issues.
In majority of balance chasing cases, issues leading to it started long time ago.

@Remedios just came from a Chase Auto CLI DP thread with people having "better luck" with this type of behavior then pif, or slowly max out over 12-15 months and then PIF all before promo expiries.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Remedios — Sat, 30 May 2020 17:18:38 GMT

@elixerin wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
@Red1Blue wrote:
OP, I am sorry to hear about your CLD. May be you can call them and see if they would restore the limit. Right now due to the economic down turn every lender is reducing their exposure. Try giving them a call and see if they can restore your limit. Good luck.

You keep saying that as if it doesn't happen without "economic downturn" cliche.
This is normal behavior for lenders when balances do not appear like they will get paid, or when they are increasing while making minimum payments or close to it.

Lenders are willing to tolerate balance (and collect interest) as long as customer doesnt appear to be heading straight for the default.

The whole point of balance chasing is to prevent additional charges being made.
It's unpleasant, but it's how it always worked.

We're not helping anyone by pretending that any and all credit issues are somehow related to today's issues.
In majority of balance chasing cases, issues leading to it started long time ago.

@Remedios just came from a Chase Auto CLI DP thread with people having "better luck" with this type of behavior then pif, or slowly max out over 12-15 months and then PIF all before promo expiries.

You're wrong again.

What you read is anecdotal account by a few with LONG ESTABLISHED HISTORY, GREAT SCORES, AND REST OF THEIR CARDS NOT SUFFERING FROM UTILIZATION ISSUES.

One maxed out card on otherwise good profile is typically not a problem.

Whenever you're looking at any data points, it would be wise to remember that correlation does not imply causation.

And yes, I used caps.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Red1Blue — Sat, 30 May 2020 19:14:18 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
You keep saying that as if it doesn't happen without "economic downturn" cliche.

This happend to me few months ago. BOA started balance chasing my card. I decided to pay them bare minimum so they can not do CLD. I ate interest for few months. I paid the entire balance in full expecting a steep CLD or account closure. Nothing happend after that. My limit remained intact. I called BOA and asked them to restore my earlier limit and they restored it. Trust me at that time my credit was in ruts. 7 Collections and 19 Charge Offs and no Bank would have tolerated me. But BOA let me keep my account and restored my Limit. I have been a customer for 14+ years so they did take it into consideration. Some times it does not hurt talking to Bank and let them know. If all fails OP can just resort to paying the bare minimum on the account and wait it out few months. Every ones situation is different and I can not speak. I can only tell what happend to me. BOA is a friend for my life now.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

NRB525 — Sun, 31 May 2020 09:05:23 GMT

@NJCasper wrote:
Citibank slashed the credit lines on both my cards, making the limit on them slightly above my current balance. In the letter, they listed the reasons - Too many recent increases in balanes; average balances too high, report shows too many inquiries, too many recently opened accounts, balances vs limits too high. But the thing that really got me, was a weird score they got. They said I could contact Trans Union.. so must be a TU score.. yet MYFICO claims its hanging at 655; while Citibank says "the consumer agency above provided us with your credit score of 332 as of May 12" and it says scores can range from 1 to 2500... what is this about. Is Myfico not giving us the right scores is this another of those fako ones - I though this service was legit. Or am I missing something here?

So, getting back to the actual question...

I don't recall ever hearing about a credit score with a range of 1 to 2,500.
OP, can you scan from paper, or screen shot of the "score disclosure" page, including any references to this "consumer agency"? Cut out any personal information from the image result. Having the reference info about the score source, including the boring fine print may jog some memories here.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Revelate — Sun, 31 May 2020 16:55:29 GMT

@CreditCrusader wrote:
@kerplunk wrote:
@CreditCrusader wrote:
That odd range that you received is not at all uncommon. I've personally seen a variety of score ranges that do not reflect the 300-850 FICO model.

On a related note, I've always been curious about the "90% of creditors use the FICO model" verbiage routinely passed along here. Frankly, that has not been my experience. I've had a near-equal mix of multiple Vantage and FICO versions given to me by multiple CCCs over the years. I think that "90% of mortgage lenders and top-line CCCs like AMEX, Discover, and BOA use FICO scores" is a bit more accurate...and even those top-line lenders toss FAKOs into the mix.

All that having been said, I'm sorry to read of your reduced line. These are indeed trying times relative to a great many things, including credit.
You may be confusing what lenders use versus what they give you access to. Just because you can see a VantageScore on their online portal does not mean they use that themselves.
I'm not confusing anything. I've seen the scores, ranges and score model names on the letters for years...and I know full well the difference between the FAKO scores many CCCs give you and FICO scores (though they are sometimes congruent).

Now, it's worth pointing out that I do not use AMEX, BOA, Citi or Discover, even when I get offers. My credit is a pretty wide mix relative to lenders, but I choose those who give me the least hassle as the years pass as opposed to those who would pad my UTIL and obscure balances carried for FICO scoring purposes.

My point was that tossing "90%" out is likely more reflective of TOP-TIER CCCs and mortgage lenders, not the credit industry as a whole. My experience differs from others...and I doubt that I'm on an island by myself with that.

What lenders have you see with non-FICO scores in use?

I'm not saying there isn't a multitude of scores out there but 90% is easily believable in my experience: the volume the majors, credit unions, mortgage and auto industries use for underwriting decisions are all FICO and they dwarf the number of decisions made by every other lender combined.

Honestly the first major inroads made by Vantage even happened recently with Synchrony switching completely to VS4 for underwriting, but most other lenders have not gone that route though some like Chase are using internal scores for a lot of their credit card decisions at least.

Re: Citi Slashed Credit Line - What is this score!?

Anonymous — Sun, 31 May 2020 17:11:51 GMT

@kerplunk wrote:
You may be confusing what lenders use versus what they give you access to. Just because you can see a VantageScore on their online portal does not mean they use that themselves.

Not quite this situation, and maybe I am misremembering but I thought at some point that if a lender gave a FICO score (rather than something else) free to their users on a periodic basis, that had to be the version that they used for decision making? (So some FICO rule, that doesn't apply if the issuer gives a Vantage score. They can still use FICO for decision making)