topic Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds in Credit Cards

Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:59:54 GMT

I'm literally speechless ... I can find the right words, but I'm not sure Chase wants to hear them. CFPB... CFPB... CFPB..

So today I recieved a letter in the mail from Chase. Thought it was the usual balance transfer checks or prviacy updates. Nope! "We have not recevied the minimum payment on your credit card account for two consecutive months and we've noticed that only merchant credits have posted to your account during this time. We want to remind you that you are still required to make the full minimum payments each month". WTH!!!?!?!?!?!? We use Chase for almost everything with credit cards and have always paid in full every single month for the past ten years (since we became Chase customers). Excellent credit and income. This letter was on my CSR account.

So, I call up Chase ... The rep reiterates that letter and tells me that I am misunderstanding and that I still must pay my statement balance even if a refund from a previous transaction results in a credit on my account. What the heck!? So, now, I'm actually livid... I pour over my past few statements and all of my refunds have been from cancelled, prepaid travel from months ago! One from Delta, one from Priceline, Hawiian Airlines, American, you get it. All cancelled because of COVID 19. Again, I already paid Chase for these transactions in full usually months ago!

So I finally had a statement balance ($900ish) this June. I went ahead and paid it when I was on the phone with Chase. The manager I got was very apologetic and agreed that he couldn't understand why Chase would send me this letter, and that the credits were clearly from already paid for and cancelled travel. That my account doesn't have any history of refunds other than this travel. He escalted it and apparently someone from management will call me back in 3-7 days.

Cardmember agreement: I reviewed the cardmember agreement and no where can I find anything about how Chase classifies return or return credit. To me it is a payment, which counts towards your balance and amount due.

$0 statement balance in App/Online: For the past two months the online account in both chase.com/app showed a $0 minimum payment and $0 remaining statement balance. $0 balance subject to interest. I've never carried a balance with Chase. If Chase had told me I owed something, I would have immeditately paid it. But apprently they want me to pay something that I don't owe?

Anyone else get a letter like this? I'm truly livid, I mean livid.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:07:38 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm literally speechless ... I can find the right words, but I'm not sure Chase wants to hear them. CFPB... CFPB... CFPB..

So today I recieved a letter in the mail from Chase. Thought it was the usual balance transfer checks or prviacy updates. Nope! "We have not recevied the minimum payment on your credit card account for two consecutive months and we've noticed that only merchant credits have posted to your account during this time. We want to remind you that you are still required to make the full minimum payments each month". WTH!!!?!?!?!?!? We use Chase for almost everything with credit cards and have always paid in full every single month for the past ten years (since we became Chase customers). Excellent credit and income. This letter was on my CSR account.

So, I call up Chase ... The rep reiterates that letter and tells me that I am misunderstanding and that I still must pay my statement balance even if a refund from a previous transaction results in a credit on my account. What the heck!? So, now, I'm actually livid... I pour over my past few statements and all of my refunds have been from cancelled, prepaid travel from months ago! One from Delta, one from Priceline, Hawiian Airlines, American, you get it. All cancelled because of COVID 19. Again, I already paid Chase for these transactions in full usually months ago!

So I finally had a statement balance ($900ish) this June. I went ahead and paid it when I was on the phone with Chase. The manager I got was very apologetic and agreed that he couldn't understand why Chase would send me this letter, and that the credits were clearly from already paid for and cancelled travel. That my account doesn't have any history of refunds other than this travel. He escalted it and apparently someone from management will call me back in 3-7 days.

Cardmember agreement: I reviewed the cardmember agreement and no where can I find anything about how Chase classifies return or return credit. To me it is a payment, which counts towards your balance and amount due.

$0 statement balance in App/Online: For the past two months the online account in both chase.com/app showed a $0 minimum payment and $0 remaining statement balance. $0 balance subject to interest. I've never carried a balance with Chase. If Chase had told me I owed something, I would have immeditately paid it. But apprently they want me to pay something that I don't owe?

Anyone else get a letter like this? I'm truly livid, I mean livid.

That sounds like Chase.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

K-in-Boston — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:20:21 GMT

I think the letter somehow got sent by mistake. Your online account does not show a balance due or overdue and you have not been charged late fees. I would try not to panic until after they give you a call back.

I had a cancellation of an after-school activity for a child result in a $1200 credit on a seldom-used Chase AU Card a few months back, the day AFTER payment had been made in full. It took two statements to work that back up to $0, and we did not receive a letter like that, or any late fees. If there was a payment due, then it would be another matter, but if your online account and statements were showing $0 due, you should be fine.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:31:08 GMT

I agree this is among the dumbest things I've ever heard. Do your statements for the months show a minimum payment due? Is it $0?

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:31:39 GMT

So, it's a bit more complicated.

Ex: April 2020 statement balance $1000. Then on April 15th a refund for $1500 for airline tickets. $500 statement credit. Since no balance, nothing to pay. Keep using the card as normal. May statement balance $200. Another refund for let's say $500 total so another statement credit of $300. Used the card normally now have a $900 statement balance which was paid.

So Chase treated my refunds like a cash payment but expects me to continue to pay the statement balance? I'm so confused.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:45:33 GMT

What does the minimum payment field on each statement actually show?

This reminds me of when the State of NJ sent my business a nastygram stating that it had not paid taxes in 2013. I replied that the business was incorporated in 2014. The State replied that that was not sufficient reason for failing to pay taxes in 2013. That was a fun one to get resolved.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:50:44 GMT

The statement both months showed a balance with a $35 minimum payment. But both months there was a refund which results in a credit balance (owed to me) prior to the minimum payment due date. So there was in essence no "statement balance" to pay. though at points during both months and when the statement cut I had a balance.

Essentially I consider a refund (which has already been paid in full) to be considered as a payment on the account. That's the plain read under the cardmember agreement too.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:50:51 GMT

Most credit cards expect you to pay your minimum statement balance every month and don't count credits of any kind towards that amount. It's a stupid policy but it seems like credit cards are still done with the expectation of you to get your statement and pay that amount, regardless of what has happened inbetween. At that point Chase would have either mailed you a check or you would have been able to request one.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

K-in-Boston — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:53:22 GMT

If there were minimum payments due, this may be a case of the minimum payment needing to be paid even if that ultimately caused a negative balance because the merchant credits don't actually count as a payment. Amex has a similar quirk with cash rewards: $30 minimum on $50 balance, redeem $50 in rewards, you still owe $30.

@Anonymous from the outside looking in, that's comical. But I would never want to deal with that.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 01:57:25 GMT

This policy, and the automated system that sent the ridiculous letter, is probably designed for the more common case when merchant credits cover the minimum payment but not the actual balance. It's pretty funny that the letter itself appears to explicitly acknowledge this possibility (the AutoPay language) but they didn't bother to program the logic.

At least they sent the letter and didn't just close the account.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 02:00:42 GMT

I really don't agree. I didn't owe Chase anything. There was nothing to pay. The statement balance was paid by a credit. I get a grace period on all new purchases.

Regardless, I would have paid if Chase told me to. Instead their app and website said I had $0 remaining statement balance/$0 remaining minimum payment due. If Chase wants this policy they should update their app and website and the cardmember agreement.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 02:10:08 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I really don't agree. I didn't owe Chase anything. There was nothing to pay. The statement balance was paid by a credit. I get a grace period on all new purchases.

Regardless, I would have paid if Chase told me to. Instead their app and website said I had $0 remaining statement balance/$0 remaining minimum payment due. If Chase wants this policy they should update their app and website and the cardmember agreement.

I agree with your second paragraph. If you want a payment, your website/app/whatever better show it. Also, if your AutoPay doesn't collect the required payment, that's on you.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Kforce — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 03:04:16 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
If there were minimum payments due, this may be a case of the minimum payment needing to be paid even if that ultimately caused a negative balance because the merchant credits don't actually count as a payment. Amex has a similar quirk with cash rewards: $30 minimum on $50 balance, redeem $50 in rewards, you still owe $30.

+100

"Common sense" does not count.

Amex, Discover and many others want at least minimum payment from last statement.

You just end up with a larger credit.

It makes no sense but that is the way of CC issuers

Do not have Chase but it sounds like you were counting chickens that they count as eggs.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

bourgogne — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 06:10:32 GMT

put livid and interpretation off to the side for a sec, did you or did you not act on whatever the statement cut put forward, that is the question. the letter reads like a late pay, how are those old credit reports looking?

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Caught750 — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 08:41:46 GMT

To play devils advocate;

•Statements cut with a minimum payment due and no payment was made, twice.
•The threat of closure wasn't over the refunds, it was because of bullet point one. Chase sees a payment due and no payment made for 2 cycles.

*Most lenders would have just closed the account. The long, positive history is likely the reason for the letter.

That said, I see why OP would assume that no payment was required. It seems that regardless of the online page/portal if the statement shows a payment due, assume it's due and pay the minimum if there's now a $0 balance or a balance less than the minimum due.

I hope OP gets this sorted out and everything is back to normal!

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:42:04 GMT

@Anonymous The credit card billing statement is your legally binding document as you agreed when you assented to the Sapphire Cardmember Agreement. It does not matter what the mobile app or online account shows, or what you "think" is your balance; it is the amounts shown on the Billing Statement as the New Balance, and the Minimum Payment Due that count.

The Sapphire Cardmember Agreement states the following on page 5:

Chase kept their end of the agreement by sending you monthly statements indicating that you were required to at least make a minimum payment. You did not pay the minimum due as agreed so consider yourself fortunate that Chase did not charge you late fees, reported a 30-day late to your credit report, or closed the account.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

UpperNwGuy — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:13:38 GMT

Sounds like your credits posted after the statement was cut. Credits don't count toward the minimum payment due at any credit card issuer that I know of. Chase is not "being Chase." They are following standard practice in the credit card industry.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

CreditInspired — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:20:40 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Most credit cards expect you to pay your minimum statement balance every month and don't count credits of any kind towards that amount. It's a stupid policy but it seems like credit cards are still done with the expectation of you to get your statement and pay that amount, regardless of what has happened inbetween. At that point Chase would have either mailed you a check or you would have been able to request one.

^^^^ this exactly!!! All my CCs TOS state that I have to make min pymts regardless of refunds or credits.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

CreditInspired — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 11:24:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I really don't agree. I didn't owe Chase anything. There was nothing to pay. The statement balance was paid by a credit. I get a grace period on all new purchases.

Regardless, I would have paid if Chase told me to. Instead their app and website said I had $0 remaining statement balance/$0 remaining minimum payment due. If Chase wants this policy they should update their app and website and the cardmember agreement.

It's kind of confusing. Yes, If the min pymt due stated $0, you're absolutely correct--it's $0. But, if another amount was noted--say $35 min pymt--then that is due even if you had a refund or credit.

Re: Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

Anonymous — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:16:54 GMT

@Anonymous Chase did not keep their end of the agreement.

Chase kept their end of the agreement by sending you monthly statements indicating that you were required to at least make a minimum payment. You did not pay the minimum due as agreed so consider yourself fortunate that Chase did not charge you late fees, reported a 30-day late to your credit report, or closed the account.

First, you must read a contract as a whole. The minimum payment provision of the contract is clearly modified by the credit balances provision. "If you do not request a refund, we will apply any credit balance to new charges on your account." There is NOTHING in the contract that says credit balances cannot be use to satisfy any minimum payment due or statement balance. Instead, it says "you agree to pay to pay at least the minimum payment when due."

So, let me understand your logic here. Statement cuts, $35 minimum payment due. A refund (for an already paid in full transactions) posts to the account and not only satisifies the minimum payment, but the whole account balance. How exactly is a minimum payment due? There is $0 balance, actually a credit on the account. Under the contract they owe me money. As there is nothing to pay - therefore, nothing due. This is confirmed by chase's automated system.

I agree that Chase could put additional, calrifying language in their contract, which would require you to make a payment if in fact there are new charges on the account. However, there is NOTHING in the contract on this point.

FYI - I'm a attorney who does, in part, contract law for a living. I litigate these types of things. I don't believe that Chase has ANY defense to their actions. If they had reported me late or took anyother action, they would be in breach of contract and I would have used every tool at my disposal for Chase to correct their wrong.

I do see how someone could use refunds to skip paying their statement balances for a good amount of time (simiarl to a ponzi scheme). There is a scenario where that could work (e.g., statement balance $100, buy something mid statement for $200 and refund it). wash and repeat. However, that is NOT the case here. I'm a long-time and very loyal customer who had trips refunded that I already paid Chase for. Absent COVID-19, none of this would have ever happened. So, I'm scratching my head, why in the heck, would Chase penalize me beacause I was trying to the right thing? I didn't ask for my trips to be cancelled. I simply followed Chase's cardmember agreement (read as a whole) and what their automated systems told me. In fact, I relied on their automated systems to understand how Chase processed those refunds. It makes no sense to me and is NOT supported by the contract, when read as a whole.

Chase is in the wrong, without a doubt.