topic Re: Amex has really pissed me off in Credit Cards

Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 18:48:14 GMT

I used to use my Amex Gold all the time but bought a house in December so didn't use it last fall at all and have since used it here or there for a 1-2k charge and then paid it off immediately. I've had the card for two years'ish and have always had a pattern of charging it up in the summer because I put my vacations on it and then pay it off. Last summer, I put 15k on it and paid it off before it was due.

This year my vacation is obviously much less involved so I put a 4k Airbnb on it. I immediately began getting emails and calls from them, they declined a $100 purchase I tried to make afterwards, and today I talked to them and they told me it's a 'flexible' limit based on my purchase history, credit, and income. My purchase history is no different than ever, my credit is 760+, and my income just went up nearly 100k due to a new job. They told me they'd be happy to consider giving me a higher flexible limit if I send them three months of bank statements to prove... something? I nicely told them I won't be using this card anymore and this has soured me on them entirely.

Anyone else have a similar experience? I work in tech, my income is going up, my job isn't in jeopardy, and I have perfect payment history on all of my Amex accounts. So annoyed right now.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

MrDisco99 — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:06:28 GMT

Times have changed since last year. Plenty of info out there about Amex tightening up. Just because they were lenient before doesn't mean they will continue to be so to the same extent. They reserve the right to set the limit where they see fit. Says so in the terms you agreed to.

Of course, you also reserve the right to end the relationship at any time.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

LakeLife — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:07:17 GMT

I have to admit I'd be pissed as well. I also will admit that I always carry one of my Visas with me versus relying on an Amex in my wallet. They are picky about online approvals I've found, and I just don't trust them as much as Chase, or Citi to be as reliable.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Remedios — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:24:41 GMT

Three months of bank statements is a perfectly reasonable request in my opinion, but also one you don't have to comply with.

As far as "proving what?", it's to prove your current ability to pay back.

Why wouldn't they just look at your payment history with them?

Because things have changed, unemployment is high, so they are proactively trying to protect themselves.

I don't even think they are looking at your overall income, they would have asked for tax returns in that case, but merely for steady deposits indicating employment (sans overdrafts and other signs of financial trouble).

If you have something to gain from using this card, a few statements are a small price to pay.

If you use other cards with rewards that aren't that beneficial to you, you're not hurting Amex, only yourself.

Also, card has annual fee, so if you're planning on keeping it, it makes no sense to SD card with decent AF, not to mention the fact longer you go without using it, lower your internal limit will be in the future, and you will be right back where you started.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

SouthJamaica — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:25:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I used to use my Amex Gold all the time but bought a house in December so didn't use it last fall at all and have since used it here or there for a 1-2k charge and then paid it off immediately. I've had the card for two years'ish and have always had a pattern of charging it up in the summer because I put my vacations on it and then pay it off. Last summer, I put 15k on it and paid it off before it was due.

This year my vacation is obviously much less involved so I put a 4k Airbnb on it. I immediately began getting emails and calls from them, they declined a $100 purchase I tried to make afterwards, and today I talked to them and they told me it's a 'flexible' limit based on my purchase history, credit, and income. My purchase history is no different than ever, my credit is 760+, and my income just went up nearly 100k due to a new job. They told me they'd be happy to consider giving me a higher flexible limit if I send them three months of bank statements to prove... something? I nicely told them I won't be using this card anymore and this has soured me on them entirely.

Anyone else have a similar experience? I work in tech, my income is going up, my job isn't in jeopardy, and I have perfect payment history on all of my Amex accounts. So annoyed right now.

Yes and it's why I cancelled my card. I had a $3000 veterinarian's bill which I paid with it, and they humiliated me by declining the charge for the reason that I had never spent more than $1700 on the card before. They gave me the baloney about it being "flexible".

I don't need a card where I don't even know what I can do with it.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

GoldenloveNY — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:49:57 GMT

But that is what a charge card does. It seems that a regular credit card with hard limit will be most beneficial for you.

It is flexible...and that goes both ways. You can gradually have a large limit on the card, and you can gradually have a small limit depending on spending habits, payments, overall credit profile, economical factors, etc. There are too many variables at play, especially now with the pandemic. But they are not lying about it being flexible; because charge cards are more cater to those who spend lots on the card and need a higher spending power than what a regular credit card can achieve (on the short term). But *just as* they can raise the internal limit on the card to ridiculous heights, they can decreased it as well. And they have every right to continue evaluate your ability to pay and not rely solely on past experiences.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

SouthJamaica — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:34:48 GMT

@GoldenloveNY wrote:
But that is what a charge card does. It seems that a regular credit card with hard limit will be most beneficial for you.

It is flexible...and that goes both ways. You can gradually have a large limit on the card, and you can gradually have a small limit depending on spending habits, payments, overall credit profile, economical factors, etc. There are too many variables at play, especially now with the pandemic. But they are not lying about it being flexible; because charge cards are more cater to those who spend lots on the card and need a higher spending power than what a regular credit card can achieve (on the short term). But *just as* they can raise the internal limit on the card to ridiculous heights, they can decreased it as well. And they have every right to continue evaluate your ability to pay and not rely solely on past experiences.

I didn't say they didn't 'have the right' to do it.

I said that I don't have any use for a card where I don't know what I can use it for. I wouldn't pay a nickel for it, let alone $250 a year.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Loquat — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:47:21 GMT

Sometimes I wish Amex would just ditch the whole “charge card” crap and just institute a hard limit and call them credit cards while keeping them same multiplier and perks.

Sure credit cards can decline even if there’s available credit but at least with a hard limit it is someone of a guidance to folks or what they can actually spend rather than playing the guessing game or having to use the “check spend” feature all the time.

With POT it almost like a credit card anyway.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

JamP — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:57:22 GMT

Amex has definitely tightened its lending. I haven't seen many approvals or cli's lately.

For the second time ever, I received a denial for a CLI. It wasn't a straight denial and it didn't ask me for proof of income, just the 7-10 day decision message.

Should be interesting to see if they give my DW a cli.

I am lucky to have my cards. Maybe I should just quit applying for cli's for a long time.

Amex is starting to feel like Discover, Amex was always solid every 181 days.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

K-in-Boston — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:00:01 GMT

Amex doesn't work in a vacuum. Spending ability on charge cards is determined by many factors; income and previous payment history with Amex are only two parts of it.

@Anonymous you stated "my credit is 760+" while your signature states "FICO8: Low 700s. FICO9: Mid 700s. Goal: 800 club." For Amex, only Experian FICO 8 matters. But again, it's only one part of the equation on many factors. Have your revolving balances been increasing? Have you also been seeking additional credit? Do you have other American Express products, and if so are you carrying any balances (even promotional) on them?

@SouthJamaica in fairness, it would be beneficial to disclose that you had significantly elevated revolving balances, scores that were dropping, and you were also receiving AA from other lenders at the time when Amex "humiliated" you by declining a charge nearly twice the highest amount you had ever had on the card during a statement period. That's a fairly strong word for a declined transaction. My Freedom card once got declined at a gas station 200 miles away because I forgot to set a travel notification; I was annoyed because I paid with another card not earning 5x URs before getting the "Is this you?" text from Chase, but I would hardly consider that humiliating.

I'll go on record again that Amex ranks number one in the "I don't have to worry about my transaction being declined" category for me (in nearly 20 years it hasn't happened once), even if it's been a long time since I've used the card and suddenly drop a very large amount in a single charge or even if it's four first class Lufthansa tickets that I didn't buy (yes, even with fraud, my experience with Amex has been "approve first, ask questions later").

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Trikoret — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:04:29 GMT

Kinda weird to decline someone for only 4k for having a two year history with them. Plus you had a good payment history with them. Is it possible they didn't like what they saw in your credit report? I don't think they should have asked for bank statements. When Amex approves anyone, they approve per credit report and not bank balances. I'd be pissed too if that happened to me. There are plenty of Banks who would love your business. Just move on.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

K-in-Boston — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:08:08 GMT

@JamP wrote:
Amex has definitely tightened its lending. I haven't seen many approvals or cli's lately.

They're in the Credit Card Approvals subforum, next to the approvals and CLIs from the other lenders like Citi and Discover, both of whom are no longer approving CLIs despite anything claimed by people like me who have received them.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:09:40 GMT

I haven't updated my signature in awhile. My credit has significantly increased due to old things falling off. My overall utilization is 6%. No balances on any of my other Amex cards. I have only carried a balance on one credit card in the last year.

I am well aware that Amex can do whatever they want. However, all of my credit cards have much higher limits than the 4k they decided was enough for me and I'm not going to use my gold card anymore as a result of this. The rep told me that they can increase it to 15k if I send the bank statements but I have other cards with that limit and higher so literally why bother? It's pretty ridiculous considering my other Amex cards that are credit cards have limits above 4k and I was approved for all of those with lower credit scores and income. My payment history on absolutely everything is now perfect since my very old lates have all fallen off, and my Amex payment history is also perfect.

I don't have to send them anything, they aren't requesting a financial review. They just said that if I want them to make more credit available I'd need to send that in. Thanks but no thanks, fam. I literally make 300k and you're worried I can't pay more than 4k? Whatever. I'll take my business elsewhere.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

SouthJamaica — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:19:29 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Amex doesn't work in a vacuum. Spending ability on charge cards is determined by many factors; income and previous payment history with Amex are only two parts of it.

@Anonymous you stated "my credit is 760+" while your signature states "FICO8: Low 700s. FICO9: Mid 700s. Goal: 800 club." For Amex, only Experian FICO 8 matters. But again, it's only one part of the equation on many factors. Have your revolving balances been increasing? Have you also been seeking additional credit? Do you have other American Express products, and if so are you carrying any balances (even promotional) on them?

@SouthJamaica in fairness, it would be beneficial to disclose that you had significantly elevated revolving balances, scores that were dropping, and you were also receiving AA from other lenders at the time when Amex "humiliated" you by declining a charge nearly twice the highest amount you had ever had on the card during a statement period. That's a fairly strong word for a declined transaction. My Freedom card once got declined at a gas station 200 miles away because I forgot to set a travel notification; I was annoyed because I paid with another card not earning 5x URs before getting the "Is this you?" text from Chase, but I would hardly consider that humiliating.

I'll go on record again that Amex ranks number one in the "I don't have to worry about my transaction being declined" category for me (in nearly 20 years it hasn't happened once), even if it's been a long time since I've used the card and suddenly drop a very large amount in a single charge or even if it's four first class Lufthansa tickets that I didn't buy (yes, even with fraud, my experience with Amex has been "approve first, ask questions later").

They indicated to me that the only reason was that I hadn't charged more than $1700 in any prior month on the card. If you're telling me that they were lying to me about that, well fine, but that's a whole other story.

I have had a perfect payment record with American Express for 32 years, so if you want to paint a picture of them having a rational reason to fear that they would be repaid, well go right ahead.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:19:35 GMT

ALSO while I'm ranting, I'd rather they freaking decline me than approve a transaction and then start sending me emails and calling me the SAME DAY saying I need to immediately make a payment. Wtaf?! I feel like they're treating me like some kind of deadbeat when I've never missed a payment and my payment isn't even due for almost a month. I've always loved Amex's customer service but this is just nuts.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

SouthJamaica — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:25:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I haven't updated my signature in awhile. My credit has significantly increased due to old things falling off. My overall utilization is 6%. No balances on any of my other Amex cards. I have only carried a balance on one credit card in the last year.

I am well aware that Amex can do whatever they want. However, all of my credit cards have much higher limits than the 4k they decided was enough for me and I'm not going to use my gold card anymore as a result of this. The rep told me that they can increase it to 15k if I send the bank statements but I have other cards with that limit and higher so literally why bother? It's pretty ridiculous considering my other Amex cards that are credit cards have limits above 4k and I was approved for all of those with lower credit scores and income. My payment history on absolutely everything is now perfect since my very old lates have all fallen off, and my Amex payment history is also perfect.

I don't have to send them anything, they aren't requesting a financial review. They just said that if I want them to make more credit available I'd need to send that in. Thanks but no thanks, fam. I literally make 300k and you're worried I can't pay more than 4k? Whatever. I'll take my business elsewhere.

That was the case for me as well; my Amex credit cards with defined limits total $95,000. I had one personal credit card with Amex which had about $33,500 available at the time. I could easily have put the charge on that -- in fact the CSR who was explaining the rejection of my charge mentioned that I could have put it on that card without a problem. No kidding. I really needed him to tell me that.

What he couldn't tell me was why I'm spending $250 a year for a card which I can't even use.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:29:07 GMT

Right?! So bizarre. They said my issue was also only that my average amount spent per month was $150 but that's only because I use my card feast or famine... I put something on it for 2-5k and then pay it and don't use it for months. I've always used my card this way and awhile back I was curious how high the spending power would let me go and I tried 25k and it said yes! Now I'm at 4k? Lord.

I'm very sad because I love the look of this card (rose gold all the way) but it's not worth the fee if I can't confidently use it. This was the card I put my bigger ticket purchases on before (since it used to be my highest "limit"!) but now I wouldn't feel comfortable using it enough to make it worth the fee.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

GoldenloveNY — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:31:55 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@GoldenloveNY wrote:
But that is what a charge card does. It seems that a regular credit card with hard limit will be most beneficial for you.

It is flexible...and that goes both ways. You can gradually have a large limit on the card, and you can gradually have a small limit depending on spending habits, payments, overall credit profile, economical factors, etc. There are too many variables at play, especially now with the pandemic. But they are not lying about it being flexible; because charge cards are more cater to those who spend lots on the card and need a higher spending power than what a regular credit card can achieve (on the short term). But *just as* they can raise the internal limit on the card to ridiculous heights, they can decreased it as well. And they have every right to continue evaluate your ability to pay and not rely solely on past experiences.
I didn't say they didn't 'have the right' to do it.

I said that I don't have any use for a card where I don't know what I can use it for. I wouldn't pay a nickel for it, let alone $250 a year.

Well then you should have researched about charge cards before you applied. Nothing they are doing is shocking.

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:36:40 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:

I'll go on record again that Amex ranks number one in the "I don't have to worry about my transaction being declined" category for me (in nearly 20 years it hasn't happened once),

Right, but obviously experiences vary. As far as I recall my only in-person decline was with Amex, when they declined a ~$30 transaction at an out-of-state Whole Foods. I've had several other online initial declines from other issuers, for transactions which I would have deemed suspicious too!

Re: Amex has really pissed me off

Anonymous — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:42:56 GMT

I think that it's pretty nonsensical to cancel/not use a card that you may be benefitting from because you're too proud to send in some bank statements to ease Amex's fears. It's no secret that lenders are skittish as a result of the pandemic, so why not play the rules and let them know your accounts aren't so risky? I had to do the same for Chase to get approved for a CF after getting approved for the CSP weeks before - it wasn't much of an ask to be able to benefit from their products.

Something doesn't sit well with me why someone would brag about a $300,000 annual income but refuse to show proof of that to a lender for something they requested. Amex has no proof of what you make other than what you tell them. Why not just prove it?