topic Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred in Credit Cards

AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 13:07:10 GMT

My wife and I are seriously considering going on Nutrisystem for at least 2 months.

This obviously will make the 6% grocery category that we have relied on less valuable, at least for $95 annual fee.

Other than the free Blue Cash Everyday, is there another AMEX card that I can product-trade to?

I have had this card since 2001.

I am also using the Citi DC (which would be fine for Nutrisystem and the Chase Freedom Flex.

Thanks to you all.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

ficosuave — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:28:13 GMT

Besides the BCE, the only other option I'm aware of would be the Cash Magnet for 1.5% flat cashback.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Jan 2021 20:19:25 GMT

^^^ correct, there are three cards in that family - BCP, BCE, and Cash Magnet. PCing among those three can be done, but not outside of them.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jan 2021 04:40:54 GMT

The amex blue everyday card is better they try and migrate you to the preferred card if you pull too many rewards from them.

Ask me how I know

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

Slabenstein — Wed, 06 Jan 2021 05:49:58 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
The amex blue everyday card is better they try and migrate you to the preferred card if you pull too many rewards from them.

Ask me how I know

What card is better or best is ofc going to depend on a particular person's spend and profile (e.g. BCP might not be a good choice if you don't charge more than $3.2k/yr in groceries), but why do you consider the BCE to be better? It doesn't seem to me to be even a particularly good card, given the alternatives from other lenders.

ETA: Ofc, in the OP's situation, a downgrade to BCE would be better than opening a new uncapped 3% grocery card, if they prefer it to the CM.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Jan 2021 12:20:08 GMT

The 95 dollar member fee turned me off, which is why I didn't migrate the card.

The rewards looked a little better but I use the Everyday card for gas. I just like the rewards I get with it better and I don't like radio cards at all and carry none with me. For security I use apple pay and at restaurants use the apple card. Had not had a number stolen since

AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:25:59 GMT

Hey, guys.

Does anyone know at what dollar grocery spend you need to be to justify the $95 annual fee? I am thinking of going down to the everyday blue, since my wife and I are trying out Nutrisystem.

How do you even figure that out? Math was never one of my favorite subjects !!

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Loquat — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 21:36:25 GMT

You'd need to spend at least $1600 in a 6% category to get over the AF hump. Anything after that is profit.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:22:45 GMT

Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0

Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,

X = $3,166.67

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

ngoaa — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:38:14 GMT

Or if you spend at least $10,250.01 per year on groceries, get the BCE.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 22:44:25 GMT

If it applies to your household, don't forget that you also get 6% on streaming services and that category is broadly defined. I get that on YouTube TV, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, iTunes, my son's Xbox Live and GamePass subscriptions, etc. Add all that to groceries and you can justify the AF of the BCP easily.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 23:05:41 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67

This is correct for the question asked, when BCP on ONLY grocery spend exceeds the rewards of BCE. More generally, it depends on what you are spending on. Trivally, if you only spend in 1% categories, the BCP doesn't make sense at any level of spend, as you are always behind on the annual fee. If you only use it for streaming, the BCP earns 5% more so the calculation becomes

X*.05=$95

X=$1,900

a much lower breakeven, but that's not surprising because the BCE would be a bad card to use for streaming!

Similarly for gas, where BCP earns 1% more, the breakeven would be $9500.

So it depends! @Loquat answer was just for getting back the AF, which ignores that other cards would be earning some rewards on that spend, so it's not all "profit". Don't know where the $10+K answer comes from!

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Aim_High — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 23:18:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.
For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.
X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67

+1 ^ ^ ^ I often point this out to people on the forums. If you're purely talking grocery return, that $3,166 is the breakeven point for annual grocery spending when you're comparing these two cards, the Blue Cash Preferred and the Blue Cash Everyday. Less than that amount annually and you come out ahead with the no-AF BCE earning a simple 3%. With the AF and only allowing for grocery spend, you'd actually earn less than 3% with the Blue Cash Preferred if you spend less than $3,166.

I like this card, but AMEX designed it with a lot of "smoke and mirrors," in my opinion, to camoflage the real return rate and maximize their opportunity for breakage where the consumer isn't getting what they think they are getting. Because of the AF coupled with the spending cap on the higher grocery returns, you never actually get 6% in real NET returns on anything with this card. It's a marketing ploy and it sounds good. Does it offer good returns? Yes, potentially. But not 6%, when allowing for the AF.

If all you buy is groceries with the BCP, you'd earn a top rate of 4.4% on the card if you spend EXACTLY the full cap of $6,000 annually*. Not a single penny more or less. Why? At spending between $3,166 and $6,000, you're outearning your Blue Cash Everday's rate of 3% but it's dragged down by the annual fee below $6K. So every penny less than $6K, you're more and more weighed down by the AF. For anything you spend above $6K, your rate also plumments but this time it's due to your grocery rewards lowering to 1%.

The wildcard, as @Anonymous pointed out, is how much you could leverage the streaming categories which earn additional 6% returns, uncapped. That always has to be considered on an individual basis since every household's spending in this category may vary. As I said, it's impossible to earn 6% with the card regardless of how you do it, as long as you have an annual fee. But those savings on streaming services have the potential to increase your earnings to somewhere between the 4.4% and 6%.

As for grocery spend, you would need to try to spend as close to $6K annually without going over. And if you spend more than $6K annually on groceries, having a second card with a good payout on groceries can be a valuable part of your lineup.

The value of the card also depends on what else you have in your wallet to cover the 3% categories of gas and transit. For some of us, the card adds no additional value in those areas. For others, it could help increase their household rewards there also, and there aren't spending caps on those categories. While the 3% categories will lower your average further below the 4.4% for the card return as a whole, it could still give you superior value to other cards based on your overall budget.

*Spend $6,000 annually x .06 rewards = $360

$360 - $95 AF = $265

$265 NET rewards/$6000 spend = 4.416%

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 23:20:54 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67

This is the correct amount of spend, since your alternative is the BCE. At $3167 @Spend, you make $190 in reward dollars. Using the BCE at $3167 spend, you would earn $95 in reward dollars. Any grocery spend above $3167 makes it worthwhile, assuming you don't use the card for gas and streaming services because you have another card as good or better that the reward rate on BCP. If the BCP rewards rate is better than your other cards gas and streaming rewards rate, then you looking at less than $3167 spend on the BCP to make it worthwhile.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Loquat — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 23:46:09 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67
This is correct for the question asked, when BCP on ONLY grocery spend exceeds the rewards of BCE. More generally, it depends on what you are spending on. Trivally, if you only spend in 1% categories, the BCP doesn't make sense at any level of spend, as you are always behind on the annual fee. If you only use it for streaming, the BCP earns 5% more so the calculation becomes

X*.05=$95
X=$1,900
a much lower breakeven, but that's not surprising because the BCE would be a bad card to use for streaming!

Similarly for gas, where BCP earns 1% more, the breakeven would be $9500.

So it depends! @Loquat answer was just for getting back the AF, which ignores that other cards would be earning some rewards on that spend, so it's not all "profit". Don't know where the $10+K answer comes from!

@Anonymous He didn't ask about other cards...he asked about 2. My answer accurately addressed the part of his question that pertains to the BCP. Also, if the card cost $95 in annual fees, anything earned over that $95 is profit I don't care how you spin it.

Are the other ways to get similar returns?, absolutely. Could he earn $95 without taking on a card with an AF, yep, sure can.

He could consider other cards as you mentioned. He can recoup the cost by picking up pennies off the ground as he finds them or by starting a Go Fund Me page.

There are always going to be other options...I didn't suggest others because he didn't ask about others.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 00:34:43 GMT

@Loquat wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67
This is correct for the question asked, when BCP on ONLY grocery spend exceeds the rewards of BCE. More generally, it depends on what you are spending on. Trivally, if you only spend in 1% categories, the BCP doesn't make sense at any level of spend, as you are always behind on the annual fee. If you only use it for streaming, the BCP earns 5% more so the calculation becomes

X*.05=$95
X=$1,900
a much lower breakeven, but that's not surprising because the BCE would be a bad card to use for streaming!

Similarly for gas, where BCP earns 1% more, the breakeven would be $9500.

So it depends! @Loquat answer was just for getting back the AF, which ignores that other cards would be earning some rewards on that spend, so it's not all "profit". Don't know where the $10+K answer comes from!
@Anonymous He didn't ask about other cards...he asked about 2. My answer accurately addressed the part of his question that pertains to the BCP. Also, if the card cost $95 in annual fees, anything earned over that $95 is profit I don't care how you spin it.

Are the other ways to get similar returns?, absolutely. Could he earn $95 without taking on a card with an AF, yep, sure can.

He could consider other cards as you mentioned. He can recoup the cost by picking up pennies off the ground as he finds them or by starting a Go Fund Me page.

There are always going to be other options...I didn't suggest others because he didn't ask about others.

The other card I was referring to was precisely the BCE. So compared to that, at $1600, you are better off using the BCE vs BCP. Which is what I meant. And what I think was being asked.

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

ngoaa — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 02:32:48 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Annual fee for the no fee BCE card is... $0
Annual fee for BCP is $95.

For $95 you get an extra 3% cash reward rate for groceries.

X * .03 = $95,
X = $3,166.67
This is correct for the question asked, when BCP on ONLY grocery spend exceeds the rewards of BCE. More generally, it depends on what you are spending on. Trivally, if you only spend in 1% categories, the BCP doesn't make sense at any level of spend, as you are always behind on the annual fee. If you only use it for streaming, the BCP earns 5% more so the calculation becomes

X*.05=$95
X=$1,900
a much lower breakeven, but that's not surprising because the BCE would be a bad card to use for streaming!

Similarly for gas, where BCP earns 1% more, the breakeven would be $9500.

So it depends! @Loquat answer was just for getting back the AF, which ignores that other cards would be earning some rewards on that spend, so it's not all "profit". Don't know where the $10+K answer comes from!

Wow. This is embarassing. I always thought the BCE was uncapped for grocery spend. It used to be when I first got my BCE... back in 2012. My calculation was based on the fact that BCP was capped and BCE was not.

I sure don't pay attention to this card...

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Aim_High — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:01:19 GMT

@ngoaa wrote:
Wow. This is embarassing. I always thought the BCE was uncapped for grocery spend. It used to be when I first got my BCE... back in 2012. My calculation was based on the fact that BCP was capped and BCE was not.

I sure don't pay attention to this card...

Thanks for the embarassing admission, @ngoaa. However, that reinforces my point, that banks hope customers won't pay attention to the details of their cards or always optimize returns like many do on My Fico. But even we make mistakes. So that just goes to show that the bank strategies often work to keep their cards profitable!

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Anonymous — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:24:19 GMT

@ngoaa wrote:
Wow. This is embarassing. I always thought the BCE was uncapped for grocery spend. It used to be when I first got my BCE... back in 2012. My calculation was based on the fact that BCP was capped and BCE was not.

I sure don't pay attention to this card...

When the cards first came out, both cards were uncapped, but then both became capped at $6K (at the same time).

Re: AMEX Blue Cash Preferred or AMEX Blue Cash Everyday?

Trikoret — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 20:17:55 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@ngoaa wrote:
Wow. This is embarassing. I always thought the BCE was uncapped for grocery spend. It used to be when I first got my BCE... back in 2012. My calculation was based on the fact that BCP was capped and BCE was not.

I sure don't pay attention to this card...
When the cards first came out, both cards were uncapped, but then both became capped at $6K (at the same time).

I just upgraded to this card since they offered 150 cash back plus first free. I think I'm going to downgrade when the annual fee hits. I spend way more than 6k year in groceries. Plus I have the Amex Gold card. I figured by upgrading I'll easily earn $510 cash back the first year. They should at least make the cap at 12k. Then it'll be a keeper for me.