topic Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet in Credit Cards

BCE vs Cash Magnet

KJinNC — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 04:20:43 GMT

My BCE is my largest card in terms of CL, but I don't use it very much, because it doesn't have the best rewards of my cards in any category. The Cash Magnet also wouldn't, but it's closer. 1.5% for non-category spend, vs my PPMC at 2%, so I wouldn't be losing much. Not really a big deal, I guess, but I've been thinking about switching it. I know I'd lose the potential for a Cash Magnet SUB in the future, but I doubt I'll ever open one as a new account, and it's a small SUB anyway.

Any reason not to do this that I might be overlooking? Thanks!

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

NoHardLimits — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 04:30:24 GMT

How much do you spend on groceries, and where do you buy most of your groceries? I see that you have a Citi Costco in your signature. Do you spend much at regular supermarkets?

I'm asking because it might be worth waiting for an upgrade offer to Blue Cash Preferred for the higher reward rates. The upgrade offer usually more than offsets the $95 annual fee, and you can always product change it again later to Cash Magnet.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

wasCB14 — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 04:33:29 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
My BCE is my largest card in terms of CL, but I don't use it very much, because it doesn't have the best rewards of my cards in any category. The Cash Magnet also wouldn't, but it's closer. 1.5% for non-category spend, vs my PPMC at 2%, so I wouldn't be losing much. Not really a big deal, I guess, but I've been thinking about switching it. I know I'd lose the potential for a Cash Magnet SUB in the future, but I doubt I'll ever open one as a new account, and it's a small SUB anyway.

Any reason not to do this that I might be overlooking? Thanks!

You might get a targeted offer to upgrade BCE to BCP with a moderate bonus ($150 with AF waived for a year or $250 with AF due).

Do you anticipate any large off-category transactions for which a $10k CL would be inadequate?

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

KJinNC — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 04:35:47 GMT

Thanks - I've considered the BCP as well, but I use Amex Gold for groceries. If I added BCP to the equation, I'd need to pick between 6% cash back and 4% MRs on groceries. I don't spent much on ride share services, trains and buses, so the main other benefit from BCP would be the 6% on streaming services, which I calculate would save me about $35-$40/year. Like the BCE, it's 1% on non-category spend. On the plus side, I am in the CAP program, so I would get a $50/year statement credit toward the AF.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

NoHardLimits — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 04:53:04 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
Thanks - I've considered the BCP as well, but I use Amex Gold for groceries. If I added BCP to the equation, I'd need to pick between 6% cash back and 4% MRs on groceries. I don't spent much on ride share services, trains and buses, so the main other benefit from BCP would be the 6% on streaming services, which I calculate would save me about $35-$40/year. Like the BCE, it's 1% on non-category spend. On the plus side, I am in the CAP program, so I would get a $50/year statement credit toward the AF.

BCE could be a candidate for the sock drawer for the time being. There is no annual fee, and as you said Cash Magnet may not get much use anyway due to the PayPal card. Unless there is a pressing need to make a change, why not just put a small subscription on it to keep it active. Wait to see if you get an upgrade offer. The CAP discount could make an upgrade offer more desirable.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

KJinNC — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 15:48:35 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
Do you anticipate any large off-category transactions for which a $10k CL would be inadequate?

Not anticipated per se, but possible. I may replace my roof this year, which would probably be in the $10K neighborhood. I have three large oak trees along my fence that died and I need to get removed. Not sure I'd pay for those with a credit card, but if I did, a $20K limit might be more comfortable for them than a $10K limit. I don't think it will matter more than $50 or $100 or so however I approach it, this is definitely small-ball. I am just wondering if there is an advantage to staying with BCE, like if I lose the ability to PC an Amex card for six months, or something else I'm not aware of.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

Yankee2 — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 16:00:09 GMT

I see zero reason to PC to the Magnet if you have a 2% card already.

If the BCP is not a fit, it looks to me like either SD the card or close it. (if the rewards are lower than your other cards)

I closed my lower reward cards last year and don't reget it a bit.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

NoHardLimits — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 03:20:10 GMT

If you decide to close BCE, make sure you wait until the account is over a year old. Amex does not look fondly upon people who open and close accounts too soon. Also, since you have another Amex revolver (Delta Platinum), you should use the credit limit reallocation tool to move as much of your BCE limit to Delta as possible.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

KJinNC — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 03:37:36 GMT

Thanks - to clarify a couple of things - I'm not planning to close the card, although this thread has caused me to consider a bigger change that I originally had in mind ... will explain original goals and then discss the potential bigger change.

The problem with BCE is that it has lower rewards on groceries than my Gold Card and lower rewards on gas than my Citi Costco, so the only use I see for it would be if large non-category spend landed on me, for example if I needed a new HVAC system and decided to use a card for it. And, there are some possibilities where I may have large expenses in 2021, though I may or may not use a card for them, so this is a possible use, not a definite use. Since large non-category spend is the only value I see in the card's high CL, I am just wondering if there's a reason not to get the card with 1.5% non-category instead of the BCE's 1% non-category. I don't think it's all that important, just wondering if there is any downside at all.

That said, this thread is making me ponder a larger update. What if I:

- PC the BCE to BCP

- Close Gold Card

- Instead of 4 MRs/$ at grocery stores, get 6%

- Instead of 4 MRs/$ dining out, get 3% (Costco Visa)

- Additionally, get 6% on streaming services

I am not and will never be an Uber or Uber Eats user, so that credit isn't valuable for me. Also, I rarely make it by Cheesecake Factory or the other restaurants for the $10/month credit.

Even with the CAP $100/year statement credit for Gold, I'd still be reducing my total AFs by $100/year (remove $150 for Gold, add $50 for BCP), with probably no net loss in rewards, as I'd lose a little with dining, roughly break even with groceries, gain a little with streaming services.

On the other hand, Gold has sentimental value for me (was a major psychological milestone in my rebuild), and though I've had it for 18 months, I am probably approaching the churner danger zone with Amex, since I have already closed two AF cards recently (Delta Gold and Hilton Aspire). And, if I close a card with a CAP discount, does that mean I can never have that CAP discount again if I wanted a Gold Card again in the future?

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

NoHardLimits — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 03:56:49 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
Thanks - to clarify a couple of things - I'm not planning to close the card, although this thread has caused me to consider a bigger change that I originally had in mind ... will explain original goals and then discss the potential bigger change.

The problem with BCE is that it has lower rewards on groceries than my Gold Card and lower rewards on gas than my Citi Costco, so the only use I see for it would be if large non-category spend landed on me, for example if I needed a new HVAC system and decided to use a card for it. And, there are some possibilities where I may have large expenses in 2021, though I may or may not use a card for them, so this is a possible use, not a definite use. Since large non-category spend is the only value I see in the card's high CL, I am just wondering if there's a reason not to get the card with 1.5% non-category instead of the BCE's 1% non-category. I don't think it's all that important, just wondering if there is any downside at all.

That said, this thread is making me ponder a larger update. What if I:

- PC the BCE to BCP
- Close Gold Card
- Instead of 4 MRs/$ at grocery stores, get 6%
- Instead of 4 MRs/$ dining out, get 3% (Costco Visa)
- Additionally, get 6% on streaming services

I am not and will never be an Uber or Uber Eats user, so that credit isn't valuable for me. Also, I rarely make it by Cheesecake Factory or the other restaurants for the $10/month credit.

Even with the CAP $100/year statement credit for Gold, I'd still be reducing my total AFs by $100/year (remove $150 for Gold, add $50 for BCP), with probably no net loss in rewards, as I'd lose a little with dining, roughly break even with groceries, gain a little with streaming services.

On the other hand, Gold has sentimental value for me (was a major psychological milestone in my rebuild), and though I've had it for 18 months, I am probably approaching the churner danger zone with Amex, since I have already closed two AF cards recently (Delta Gold and Hilton Aspire). And, if I close a card with a CAP discount, does that mean I can never have that CAP discount again if I wanted a Gold Card again in the future?

I don't have enough knowledge about the CAP discount, so I'll leave that to someone else to provide guidance there. I like your reasoning about replacing Gold with BCP for grocery & streaming. The numbers make sense for that scenario.

Is the Platinum charge card important to you at this time? What would you think about closing the Platinum after it ages over a year? You might eventually receive a targeted bonus offer to upgrade your existing Gold to Platinum. It's sort of an indirect path with the possibility of an additional upgrade bonus (BCE=>BCP and Gold=>Plat).

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

ccquest — Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:23:57 GMT

If you don't go ahead with cancelling the Gold card, I'd definitely say sock drawer it except for certain expenses that it might fit with (like the department stores where it gets 2% to at least match your PPMC). I only use mine for real grocery stores as it doesn't have a very good rewards structure imo, but it's my only AmEx and they do have nice offers in the account that I take advantage (Shop Small, restaurant credits) of so it'll be staying for awhile.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

notmyrealname23 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 02:24:59 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
Thanks - to clarify a couple of things - I'm not planning to close the card, although this thread has caused me to consider a bigger change that I originally had in mind ... will explain original goals and then discss the potential bigger change.

The problem with BCE is that it has lower rewards on groceries than my Gold Card and lower rewards on gas than my Citi Costco, so the only use I see for it would be if large non-category spend landed on me, for example if I needed a new HVAC system and decided to use a card for it. And, there are some possibilities where I may have large expenses in 2021, though I may or may not use a card for them, so this is a possible use, not a definite use. Since large non-category spend is the only value I see in the card's high CL, I am just wondering if there's a reason not to get the card with 1.5% non-category instead of the BCE's 1% non-category. I don't think it's all that important, just wondering if there is any downside at all.

That said, this thread is making me ponder a larger update. What if I:

- PC the BCE to BCP
- Close Gold Card
- Instead of 4 MRs/$ at grocery stores, get 6%
- Instead of 4 MRs/$ dining out, get 3% (Costco Visa)
- Additionally, get 6% on streaming services

I am not and will never be an Uber or Uber Eats user, so that credit isn't valuable for me. Also, I rarely make it by Cheesecake Factory or the other restaurants for the $10/month credit.

Even with the CAP $100/year statement credit for Gold, I'd still be reducing my total AFs by $100/year (remove $150 for Gold, add $50 for BCP), with probably no net loss in rewards, as I'd lose a little with dining, roughly break even with groceries, gain a little with streaming services.

On the other hand, Gold has sentimental value for me (was a major psychological milestone in my rebuild), and though I've had it for 18 months, I am probably approaching the churner danger zone with Amex, since I have already closed two AF cards recently (Delta Gold and Hilton Aspire). And, if I close a card with a CAP discount, does that mean I can never have that CAP discount again if I wanted a Gold Card again in the future?

BCP maxes out at 6k for grocery spend. Gold maxes out at 25k. If you're under $500 a month the math works out, but it'll change if you more than max out the BCP. That being said, there might be no-AF ways around that, like using a DiscoverIt Cashback , Costco Visa, or some other category bonus card for various months out of the year.

I would argue if you literally do not care about MRs except to turn them into cash, I think the MR system is inferior to a cashback system of no-AF/low-AF cards, or a Chase/Citi system, or just using AMEX cashback cards + whatever floats your boat for spending patterns. "But what about the Schwab Platinum?"- well, if you care about lounges or shiny hotel status cards or luxury travel, sure, but if all you care about is cash and the card features do nothing that's $550 annual fee deadweight against cashback, unless you can use CAP or military discounts or whatever.

If none of AMEX Gold's features do anything for you at all, sure, cancel it. Ditto Platinum.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

KJinNC — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 03:06:26 GMT

I mostly convert MRs to SkyMiles. Though I recently converted some to HHonors at 40% discount.

I'm comfortable with MRs but not guru-level at maximizing value with them. Either way, it's ultimately a currency with a cash value. The way I use them, I think an MR is worth around a penny, so 6% compares well. You make a good point about the $6K annual grocery spend limit, but that should work for me, since my "grocery" spend is split between grocery stores and Costco.

For anyone not familiar with the CAP program, here is what I know about it. First, eligibility is based on having a corporate Amex from a company that participates in the program. I don't know what determines if a company is in the program or not, but generally, large corporations are in it. My employer is a household name company. Right now, the statement credits (de facto discounts on annual fees) are: $150 for Platinum, $100 for Gold, $75 for Green, $50 for BCP. The welcome offers (SUBs) may also differ slightly. Everything else is the same. It's a personal card that appears on your credit like any other personal card. If you become ineglible, mainly if you no longer work for the CAP-eligible corporation, you stop receiving the statement credit, but everything else stays the same.

So, I pay (net):
$400/year for Platinum

$150/year for Gold

And I would pay $45/year for BCP if I got that

Platinum is not on the table to cut, though I could imagine a scenario where I upgrade Gold to Platinum and then cancel the current Platinum, to get a SUB and keep the older account, or something like that. But that's a lot of hoops to jump through, and I'm already a little nervous about being classified as a churner. The reason I have no intention of dropping Platinum is that its benefits are difficult to replace economically (lounges and status), and right now with travel slowed due to covid, they are giving some very nice offers. I've received $280 in offers (I mean, actual statement credits) this month alone.

Anyway, thanks for the input. This has gotten a bit more complicated than I was originally thinking about, but it's a good thought process. I think I would come out behind if I split spend between Gold and BCP. There is room for one but not both, as far as optimal rewards for my spend. Though I'd only be $15 behind or something like that if I added BCP and used it only for streaming services, continuing to use Gold the same as today, so, when I say having both wouldn't be optimal, I'm talking about a pretty small difference.

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

notmyrealname23 — Tue, 19 Jan 2021 04:52:52 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
I mostly convert MRs to SkyMiles. Though I recently converted some to HHonors at 40% discount.

OK, so that all makes some sense as to why Gold is "meh" and Platinum is a keeper. Note that I said it's the benefits. This is generally how I value AMEX charge cards; either the things they throw in (CLEAR credits, Grubhub/Uber/airline credits, hotel status, lounge access, whatever) move the needle for you on "this is something I would pay hundreds of dollars anyway for if it wasn't attached to the card" or not. IMO you can largely replicate what AMEX is doing with point multipliers or cashback elsewhere (and arguably with, say, Chase for instance, you gain a lot of ease of use/streamlining/flexibility to go cashback if you want and get a lot of what AMEX gives you). It's the tchotchkes AMEX tosses in that either make this a win or a loss, except for some specific use cases ("I spend a ton on airfare and I'm tightly wedded to Delta, so I can really make a Biz Platinum + Delta Amex cards do a lot for me"- and even there it's tied to specific benefits and relationships that just kind of bias things).

Re: BCE vs Cash Magnet

Aim_High — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 02:21:32 GMT

@KJinNC wrote:
My BCE is my largest card in terms of CL, but I don't use it very much, because it doesn't have the best rewards of my cards in any category. The Cash Magnet also wouldn't, but it's closer. 1.5% for non-category spend, vs my PPMC at 2%, so I wouldn't be losing much. Not really a big deal, I guess, but I've been thinking about switching it. I know I'd lose the potential for a Cash Magnet SUB in the future, but I doubt I'll ever open one as a new account, and it's a small SUB anyway.

Any reason not to do this that I might be overlooking? Thanks!

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with the PC from BCE to the CM, @KJinNC. For the long term, it's still a card you won't value as much as other options when you have 2% coverage. I have another suggestion for you after reading the messages upthread.

It sounds like you most value the high CL on the BCE. Why not apply for the BCP, take the SUB, with the longer term goal of combining the limits BCE/BCP after the BCE turns a couple of years old and then closing it? You'd preserve (most of) the high limit on the BCE and probably add a nice bonus to it, plus you'd add a more useful everyday spend card.

It does sound like the GOLD is a marginal card for you, although I really envy your generous CAP incentives!! With the CAP incentive, you could downgrade the GOLD to GREEN to lower the AF and give you another 3% (3MR) card to use for dining out, plus it adds the 3x on transit and some travel categories that the PLATINUM doesn't cover? If you get a $75 CAP credit on Green, that lowers the AF by 50% to $75 out of pocket and then you can claim $100 credits on CLEAR and/or $100 on Lounge Buddy. Easy and painless way to downgrade the GOLD and save some money ($75), even if you don't use the credits. Plus ... if you downgrade the GOLD to GREEN, you minimize the chance of being labeled a churner, especially if you're already keeping the PLATINUM and BCP for the long term. It's all about finding the best cards in their lineup that work for you, IMO.