topic Re: Amex Overpayment in Credit Cards

Amex Overpayment

micvite — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:28:19 GMT

Apparently, as of this month, AMEX will not allow you to process an overpayment over the phone, you may still do this through a wire transfer, and it may impact your spending ability (aka your card might get declined) if you have made such an overpayment. (They state the reason is their new credit policy that is always updated, tried calling twice and got the same answer both times after making it past level 1 tech support to an account specialist)

This is really sad considering they were great for making larger purchases that were over my credit limits (for example 7k at Tiffany and Co.) And it appears that this boat has sailed. Do anyone know if any other issuers allow this? I know citi cap one disco and wf don't from the lineup I currently have, but sometimes I just want that extra warranty or purchase protection a cc offers over a debit card.

Thanks!

Re: Amex Overpayment

Remedios — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:25:39 GMT

I think this was addressed in your other thread.

While lender may be okay with an occasional partial pre-payment (because that's what it is), in general this behavior is alarming due to several types of fraud that follow exact pattern you described.

It's something that should be used sparingly, if ever.

As much as Amex wants/loves money, I'm surprised they allowed it to go on for this long. You won't find a lender who will be okay with this on a consistent basis. This is what fraud/abuse algorithm "looks' for.

Lenders might allow over the limit charges, but again, creating inflated CL is whole another animal.

Your other approvals are on the lower end, are you rebuilding?

Were you rebuilding when you got approved since Amex isn't really budging on your limits?

I think your best option at some point is a card(s) that will have adequate limit for your needs.

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 19:39:37 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
I think this was addressed in your other thread.
While lender may be okay with an occasional partial pre-payment (because that's what it is), in general this behavior is alarming due to several types of fraud that follow exact pattern you described.
It's something that should be used sparingly, if ever.
As much as Amex wants/loves money, I'm surprised they allowed it to go on for this long. You won't find a lender who will be okay with this on a consistent basis. This is what fraud/abuse algorithm "looks' for.
Lenders might allow over the limit charges, but again, creating inflated CL is whole another animal.

Your other approvals are on the lower end, are you rebuilding?
Were you rebuilding when you got approved since Amex isn't really budging on your limits?

I think your best option at some point is a card(s) that will have adequate limit for your needs.

I was never rebuilding per se, I got my first credit card 5 years ago, and my credit scores have always been up and down, because I used ny available credit to be able to shove my cash elsewhere for periods of time, so my score would start at 740 dip to 590 for months and months then jump back up and so on and so forth. Now I don't need to use my credit so I'm religiously paying in full for everything. But my nr of inquiries has always been an issue from financing cars after cars (usually PIF within a year, but need to finance which ends with 7-10 inq at a time) multiple times a year.

Yeah I know it was discussed before about thr fraud on someone else's thread, I'm just surprised they finally decided to put this practice on the chopping block I suppose.

When I got approved for first amex in 2017, I was at.... maybe 720? Bced. For the Gold I was around 680-690 when I got approved after being denied for it 3 months prior at 650. Then a year later I stopped PIF since I though play over time was fine on the Gold card my scores dropped to like 620 and they decided to put the preset limit on there. At this point I'm highly considering closing the acc since the AF just isn't worth it for me (credits are useless) and I don't have any retention offers and now I can't even prepay which was the biggest kicker for me (I sometimes spend over 2k in a single dinner and the 4x was nice, but I can do 3x with WF for no AF). Do you know if Amex will prorate the fee if I close the account later this year? I want to wait until my supposed account review that might let my NPSL come back and if it doesn't say goodbye to it.

In other news I'm at 740ish across the board now, some inquiries are starting to fall off but I'm buying another car next month so there go another 7-10 inquiries😥😥... which is my perpetual problem...

Re: Amex Overpayment

Remedios — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:08:25 GMT

If inquiries are the problem, why not secure financing through CU prior to purchasing a vehicle?

You get one HP, maybe two, and no other shenanigans.

I really do not know if they prorate AF, I think they don't (I believe there is a window for a downgrade after it posts),but I'm not sure.

Maybe it's all the extra activity and utilization on your CR that's giving Amex a pause.

I wouldn't write them off yet. Let your scores stabilize, give them some room to breathe for a couple of months, then try again.

Did you go through voluntary IV with them? I don't know if you find that intrusive, but it might help.

It the concern isn't your ability to repay, it won't help.

I really think it would be good for you to let your HPs age (a year at least), score should increase without new inquiries, accounts, and loans. Then, you snag a couple of decent cards, and after that, go car shopping.

It's just a thought.

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Tue, 22 Jun 2021 20:23:11 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
If inquiries are the problem, why not secure financing through CU prior to purchasing a vehicle?
You get one HP, maybe two, and no other shenanigans.

I really do not know if they prorate AF, I think they don't (I believe there is a window for a downgrade after it posts),but I'm not sure.
Maybe it's all the extra activity and utilization on your CR that's giving Amex a pause.
I wouldn't write them off yet. Let your scores stabilize, give them some room to breathe for a couple of months, then try again.
Did you go through voluntary IV with them? I don't know if you find that intrusive, but it might help.
It the concern isn't your ability to repay, it won't help.

I really think it would be good for you to let your HPs age (a year at least), score should increase without new inquiries, accounts, and loans. Then, you snag a couple of decent cards, and after that, go car shopping.
It's just a thought.

Because credit unions don't like many inquiries when buying cars, at least the ones by me, and their DTI requirements are insane to say the least.... with my income in theory I wouldn't be able to buy a car that's more than 40-50k according to them but that's another story for another day and when I did get approved dealer was always able to beat rate significantly somehow...

Yeah it's 30 days after it posts to get a refund, not sure about after that, but I guess ill call them. We'll the extra activity and utilization stopped I want to say.... October last year? Was 68k in debt back then, started paying off in large chunks and was debt free this January. (And have since put overpayments and large purchases on amex with no issues and my scores have just been going higher and higher until they hit the 740 cap from inquiries, loan balance to amt borrowed went up since my auto loan closed, and one 30 day from 2018).

The voluntary IV, they wanted IV last year and I missed the train on that... by the time I realized I had a preset limit on the card and asked why they said it was too late to submit documents (submitted bank statements anyway), so not sure if that's what you're talking about or if there's something else I can do?

At least right now I have to buy this car and then a house later this year or next then I can focus on letting my inquiries go away (most are over 12 months old anyway) but I currently don't have a car since I already got rid of the last one I bought (I buy and sell when the market is right so I don't end up paying for a vehicle or even make some money) so no matter what I'm gonna have to buy this and it's my dream car as well so I'll probably be keeping it for a few years at least.

I know credit is a long term waiting game, I just have a lot of thing I want to get done in a short period of time so I know that's affecting me and my credit, and being able to prepay amex was a big help until just now....

Re: Amex Overpayment

W261w261 — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 01:46:33 GMT

Just a few days ago I tried a (balance) overpayment, which included my rough estimate of the pending charges. I must have guessed a bit high, because I got an error message saying please make your payment $xx or less. Turns out $xx was the balance + the pending, so at least they allowed that.

What is an IV, btw? Also, I thought that a bunch of HP's if you were car shopping, if they were concentrated over two or three weeks, only counted as one? Thx

Re: Amex Overpayment

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 01:56:34 GMT

If you're piling up inquiries like that for cars, but paying them off in a year, then there's a better way to go. As with everything credit-related, a strategy is smart.

Instead of flipping cars nonstop, buy your next one and pay it off, then keep it for another year or so. Save the money you would be using to pay off that next car and just store it away. Put the flip game on hold. After two years the car is paid for and you have cash to buy the next one. Sell this one, pay cash for the next one, and during the ensuing year, stack money away as if you were paying off the car. Sell it after a year, and pay cash for the next one.

I know the flip market is fickle but you mention there are a lot of things you want to do in a short time and some just may not be possible if you're racking up inquiries like you are. Slow down, take a year off from doing that stuff, and after you've banked a loan's worth of cash, you can get back to flipping cars but not taking inquiries, and your scores and approvals will grow, allowing you to do the other things you want that require credit.

Re: Amex Overpayment

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 01:58:01 GMT

@W261w261 wrote:
Just a few days ago I tried a (balance) overpayment, which included my rough estimate of the pending charges. I must have guessed a bit high, because I got an error message saying please make your payment $xx or less. Turns out $xx was the balance + the pending, so at least they allowed that.
What is an IV, btw? Also, I thought that a bunch of HP's if you were car shopping, if they were concentrated over two or three weeks, only counted as one? Thx

IV = income verification. Auto HPs are lumped together for scoring purposes, but each pull is visible on your reports to any lender who looks.

Re: Amex Overpayment

AverageJoesCredit — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 02:24:24 GMT

Whats the point of credit limits if one can just go over limit whenever they want? Charge cards have their place for their reasons as does credit cards with their fixed limits. A few flex spenders here and there but doing big purchases and going over multiple times sends signals, good or bad to a lender.

Having your credit dip all over the place, regardless if you are paying in full eventually is creating a hectic picture from your lenders and unstabilty isnt what they want to see. Yes, use credit to suit your needs but if you dont get that credit that you need how do you expext to use it lol. There's a reason it takes time to build a solid credit profile and lenders want to see steady progress not rollercoastee scores and inquiries. I think you should rethink how you build a stable credit picture for yourself and your lenders, less headaches later.

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 06:33:32 GMT

Yeah I know what I need to chill with the inquiries and that will probably happen after this car since I plan to just keep it and eat the depreciation, but it's not the flipping cars that makes me money, it's using the cash I would have otherwise spent on the car to invest that gives me my income. And with how much I drive it's simply not feasible for me to keep a car more than a few months to a year because it'll become worthless very quickly. I drive upwards of 50k miles a year, which if I were to buy a new 100k car right now, a year later it would be worth... well maybe half that? Which is why I'm usually after lower priced cars with low mileage that need a little bit of work, so that when they get to the "normal" mileage for a car of that year I can sell it for more or less the same price I bought it for and pay off the loan (I don't use cash to pay the loan off, the car pays for itself).

Which is why I can't really save money because I don't really ever have much cash in hand honestly. As soon as I have anything more than I need for a few months of expenses I throw it at something in hopes of multiplying it. For example right now I have about 80k invested into a project that should have a return of about 120-150k next month or so but I only have a measly 15k in the bank that's slowly dwindling (had 32k last month).

Yeah I know my rollercoaater escapades were not seen favorably... especially basically having 100% util or even more at times (made minimum payment charged gas for example and interest hit making it go over limit) but in all fairness that was only for a few months that I did that about two years ago so I figured I had been forgiven... at least slightly lol. Right now my scores have been constant around 720-740 ish depending on beaureau for the last 8 months I want to say.

By this time next year I'll have 25/30 on TU, 19/24 EX, and 14/14 on EQ inq drop off and the rest by the end of next year (like I said only 4-6 inquiries are within a year)

Re: Amex Overpayment

GatorGuy — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 02:01:09 GMT

So weird you can't get major credit limit increases running so much through your cards.

Are you not able to show sufficient income?

Re: Amex Overpayment

FinStar — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 02:42:59 GMT

@GatorGuy wrote:
So weird you can't get major credit limit increases running so much through your cards.

Are you not able to show sufficient income?

Below is a snippet from a prior discussion, but I'm sure the OP can elaborate further on their profile.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Best-credit-card-for-travel/m-p/6300062#M1773674

Re: Amex Overpayment

GatorGuy — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 03:26:14 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@GatorGuy wrote:
So weird you can't get major credit limit increases running so much through your cards.

Are you not able to show sufficient income?
Below is a snippet from a prior discussion, but I'm sure the OP can elaborate further on their profile.
https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Best-credit-card-for-travel/m-p/6300062#M1773674

I read that whole thread. 😂

Re: Amex Overpayment

FinStar — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 03:29:03 GMT

@GatorGuy wrote:
@FinStar wrote:
@GatorGuy wrote:
So weird you can't get major credit limit increases running so much through your cards.

Are you not able to show sufficient income?
Below is a snippet from a prior discussion, but I'm sure the OP can elaborate further on their profile.
https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Best-credit-card-for-travel/m-p/6300062#M1773674
I read that whole thread. 😂

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 04:33:14 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@GatorGuy wrote:
So weird you can't get major credit limit increases running so much through your cards.

Are you not able to show sufficient income?
Below is a snippet from a prior discussion, but I'm sure the OP can elaborate further on their profile.
https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Best-credit-card-for-travel/m-p/6300062#M1773674

Well it turns out I fell victim to the typical chase didn't check my credit profile and decided to check it more thoroughly two months in, OR I triggered a fraud alert when I used my Wisconsin DL to open an account in NJ where I had moved to not too long prior with a NJ address and they didn't like that, because I had all my accounts terminated with them not just my CC (they closed my checking and I was like **bleep**? Let me open another one online! And that triggered both accounts to be closed) now the reason for checking being closed was fraud they stated that, for the cc? Was it just a coincidence that it closed at the same time? Maybe? But they said it was due to high balances on chase account (I did a balance transfer because why wouldn't I? I got a BT promo offer) and high util overall and nr of inquiries (they knew that when I applied for the card... it was the only card I applied for at the time so nothing drastic changed on my profile and I can only assume it was negligence on their part for opening the account in the first place.

And just so you guys can see those are my citi and Amex statements to give you an idea of how much I put through the cards and my limits (amex is a 2k preset limit) citi got raised to 4k a few months ago from 2500. I'd be putting more through amex but sometimes I get fed up having to wait 20 minutes on the phone for them to call my bank to see if my previous payments went through (I eat out every night and sometimes it's 2-3 1.5k plus dinners in a row meaning I'd have to pay the card off every night then they freak out about my payments not clearing and block all charges until payment verification or balance check) end up just using my WF cc because at least being a transfer from my bank account they'll let me pay and spend the money right away (have wf checking)

Re: Amex Overpayment

Remedios — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 04:42:20 GMT

You have to decide what's important to you. If it's cars while you cannot increase your limits, that's your choice.

You can take advice, or you can continue doing same thing, without change in outcome.

You just have to decide what's important to you and stick with it.

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 04:46:20 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
You have to decide what's important to you. If it's cars while you cannot increase your limits, that's your choice.
You can take advice, or you can continue doing same thing, without change in outcome.
You just have to decide what's important to you and stick with it.

Indeed, and I do appreciate the advice, and I'm sorry if I come out to be hard-headed I was just trying to see if I had any other options honestly... in any case I currently don't have a car so no matter what I'm going to have to purchase one, then I can focus on dropping my inquiries and "rebuild". I guess I always figured if most inquiries were over a year old it didn't really matter that much, but obviously that's not the case.

Re: Amex Overpayment

Remedios — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 05:06:27 GMT

On some profiles it doesn't really matter, but it doesn't seem like that's the case for you.

I don't think you're being hard headed, you are trying to combine what's good for your credit and what you think it's good for you.

Sometimes those two aren't in synch.

Since that isn't happening, do what you need to do then garden.

Re: Amex Overpayment

micvite — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 05:09:54 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
On some profiles it doesn't really matter, but it doesn't seem like that's the case for you.
I don't think you're being hard headed, you are trying to combine what's good for your credit and what you think it's good for you.
Sometimes those two aren't in synch.
Since that isn't happening, do what you need to do then garden.

I guess the age of my profile isn't helping either...

Haha yeah I suppose you're absolutely right😅😅. I just want the best of both worlds and that just isn't possible right now...

Re: Amex Overpayment

NRB525 — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 07:42:31 GMT

Well, we don't really need purchase protection or warranty with restaurants, so perhaps use debit for those bills for a while?

Was your Chase account closure of your only checking account? That might crimp the above, but another checking bank would set that up.

Did you indicate there is another IV coming up with AMEX? If you can get that verification completed, get the hard limit removed from the Gold card, that would be a big help to you. Then you aren't cycling so many payments and allow the NPSL to adjust to your spend patterns. Even if they don't initially approve, or it drags out in time, I'd suggest being patient, as the NPSL is intended for big spenders.

I'd also suggest doing an honest review of what caused Chase to close accounts. Look at it from Chase's perspective and try to see where they may see risk, how it might have looked like fraud. Even if you know all the facts, the banks do not, and are forced to make decisions on less than perfect data.