topic Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit in Credit Cards

Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Fri, 07 May 2021 05:36:54 GMT

Recently, I hit the 2 year mark on my Delta Gold. With the AF coming up this month I was going to call in to cancel it or downgrade to Blue. Yesterday, for the first time in a while, I checked to see if I had pre-qualified offers and had a banner for Delta Reserve. Usually, the offer looked like this:

But this time the wording was different. There was also a button to accept. I initially didn't think much about it, but then I started wondering about things so I went back. This time around it was the same message, but the formatting was broken and the button wasn't there making me think it was a glitch similar to what happened with the BCE offer that was on everyone's accounts a few months ago, but I decided to call in to see what was going on. Here's the screen I got the second time around:

When I called in the rep initially didn't see the offer on my Gold, asked me if I had a code, then checked the Platinum. After being put on hold a couple of times she confirmed it was on the Gold and asked if I wanted to upgrade.

I asked her about my card limit. It's pretty well known here that the starting limit on a card with $550 AF from Amex has a minimum SL of $3100. The CARD Act requires the AF to be no more than 25% of the limit for the first year, which would mean that my legal minimum would have to be $2200. Last month I was denied for an increase, so I wondered if an upgrade would force an increase. She couldn't comment on that and asked if I wanted to upgrade noting I could reverse my decision within 45 days. Out of curiosity, I said yes.

She read off all of the disclosures and went over the authorized users disclosures. At the end I confirmed again and she congratulated me for joining the elite group of Amex users. She told me my account would show the upgrade withing 24 hours. It took most of the day for my card to show as a reserve, but still showed my limit as $1000. It's now been a full day and this is what my account shows:

It appears I am, once again, an outlier, and defying logic when it comes to my credit profile. Now sure if this is a Card Act violation. Based on current thought here, it is, but technically this card is starting it's third year which would make this a new datapoint for Annual Fees showing that upgrades can bypass the Card Act on loopholes.

Also not sure if you can say this is a relationship based action. They wouldn't approve me for a $550 AF card, but they'll upgrade me? On top of that, they keep me on a $1000 limit for a card that requires $30k spend minimum. And for those that are going to ask, no, there was no upgrade or welcome bonus. Kind of a slap in the face, imo. I need to spend $30k a year, but can't let more than $300 report for scores. Smh. Not sure if I'm going to call in and have them convert it to Blue instead.

Thoughts?

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 15:03:46 GMT

Card Act applies to first year only

Probably need a higher limit or pre-pay your card to hit the spend levels for status boost

As an aside, business cards are also excluded from Card Act, so if you ever get them you can also upgrade at any time during first year.. slightly more flexible than personal

I like the Platinum charge more than premium Deltas, Centurion lounges are very nice

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 14:40:40 GMT

You are out of the first year so I do not think it is a card act violation.

There is not much flying now, but if you fly Delta often the lounge access can have value. However if lounge access is the goal then the Platinum Charge may make more sense. You could upgrade Gold charge card... not sure how Card Act would impact approval on a Platinum charge card which usually has no preset spending limit.

If you fly with someone, then the companion ticket may have value.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

wingennis — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 15:01:19 GMT

What a weird way to do business.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 15:11:28 GMT

@Anonymous @Anonymous I agree about the AF only applying to the first year of card existence, but the common thought on here is it applies to upgrades as well, which is why I queried what people think. Regardless, pretty sure this is the lowest limit Delta Reserve known on here.

As for the Platinum, I'm not upgrading the Gold because it fits my spend. If I get one, it will be the Schwab Platinum, which they will not approve me for as I have tried a couple of times.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

wasCB14 — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 17:04:29 GMT

@wingennis wrote:
What a weird way to do business.

Amex can legally offer the upgrade, and some people might get sufficient value from the Sky Club access and companion pass to merit the card's AF despite low spend and not hitting an MQM spend target.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

simplynoir — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 17:24:30 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@wingennis wrote:
What a weird way to do business.
Amex can legally offer the upgrade, and some people might get sufficient value from the Sky Club access and companion pass to merit the card's AF despite low spend and not hitting an MQM spend target.

Even so it seems wild to me they wouldn't at least try to accommodate a customer willing to upgrade to a card like this to encourage the spend. I mean sure the AF is nice to have but swipes fees where someone might want to reach the first spending threshold seems like a plus as well. Like putting in the minimum effort necessary to get a customer

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

FinStar — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 18:48:57 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@wingennis wrote:
What a weird way to do business.
Amex can legally offer the upgrade, and some people might get sufficient value from the Sky Club access and companion pass to merit the card's AF despite low spend and not hitting an MQM spend target.

This ^^^

As echoed above, an upgrade ≠ CLI as the offer is still not violating the provisions of the CARD Act.

Barclays along with WF (e.g. Propel > Propel World) and a couple of other FIs (IIRC) had to adjust their internal product policies to adhere to the CARD Act as they got their little wrists slapped for offering higher AF upgrades during the first year of cardmemberdhip.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

staticvoidmain — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 18:58:43 GMT

My thought was not about the limit, but the fact that you upgraded without an upgrade bonus. And gauging from your post, you did not really "need" Delta Reserve yet. I mean, you said you only upgraded out of curiosity, and care more about the limit.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

wasCB14 — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 20:05:02 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
@wingennis wrote:
What a weird way to do business.
Amex can legally offer the upgrade, and some people might get sufficient value from the Sky Club access and companion pass to merit the card's AF despite low spend and not hitting an MQM spend target.
Even so it seems wild to me they wouldn't at least try to accommodate a customer willing to upgrade to a card like this to encourage the spend. I mean sure the AF is nice to have but swipes fees where someone might want to reach the first spending threshold seems like a plus as well. Like putting in the minimum effort necessary to get a customer

If a Chase Ritz customer with 830 FICOs and a $300k income applied for a Bonvoy Brilliant, then I'd agree. If charging a big AF to a new customer with a strong profile, give a useful SL.

But OP's history with CLI requests suggests Amex has concerns other than OP spending less than $30k on the card. If a higher CL wasn't a cause of at least some concern, it would have happened by now.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 03:14:41 GMT

@staticvoidmain wrote:
My thought was not about the limit, but the fact that you upgraded without an upgrade bonus. And gauging from your post, you did not really "need" Delta Reserve yet. I mean, you said you only upgraded out of curiosity, and care more about the limit.

I don't care about the limit. It was simply curiosity, the card was going to be closed or downgraded anyways. The common belief here is that you can't have a Delta Reserve unless you're able to qualify for the $3100 limit. The SUB was of no concern because I wouldn't have qualified for a new card. I believed there would be no change to my limit, but I was willing to see if they would bring me in line with other Delta Reserve members as there would be no new account. Despite my belief, it was still a bit of a shock when my limit didn't change to accommodate the spend that's expected of the card. The AF reporting alone, will put me at 55% utilization if I don't "prepay" in anticipation. My post shows that it is possible to have a Delta Reserve without meeting the believed minimum. Now, maybe I'll try to PC my More Rewards to a Flagship. 🤪

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

FinStar — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 03:57:52 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
@staticvoidmain wrote:
My thought was not about the limit, but the fact that you upgraded without an upgrade bonus. And gauging from your post, you did not really "need" Delta Reserve yet. I mean, you said you only upgraded out of curiosity, and care more about the limit.
I don't care about the limit. It was simply curiosity, the card was going to be closed or downgraded anyways. The common belief here is that you can't have a Delta Reserve unless you're able to qualify for the $3100 limit. The SUB was of no concern because I wouldn't have qualified for a new card. I believed there would be no change to my limit, but I was willing to see if they would bring me in line with other Delta Reserve members as there would be no new account. Despite my belief, it was still a bit of a shock when my limit didn't change to accommodate the spend that's expected of the card. The AF reporting alone, will put me at 55% utilization if I don't "prepay" in anticipation. My post shows that it is possible to have a Delta Reserve without meeting the believed minimum. Now, maybe I'll try to PC my More Rewards to a Flagship. 🤪

But, in a way it sounds like you cared (or were concerned to a degree) about the CL to the extent that you may have assumed the upgrade to the higher tier version would equate to an automatic CLI with some direct correlation to the CARD Act 🧐. IIRC, I can think of only a couple of older threads where something similar happened just like your situation, but it was with a Marriott/Bonvoy CC.

Needless to say, you have 45 days to test drive it and flip back to the current version. It's a good DP for someone who may not have evidenced or missed those buried Marriott/Bonvoy [upgrade] threads 😉

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

K-in-Boston — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 05:01:46 GMT

Whether a card was upgraded or not, as long as your ACCOUNT is at least one year old the CARD Act's provision on AF to limit ratio does not apply. You can PC to Delta Reserve as long as your limit is at least $550. There was someone else recently who did a PC to Reserve with a very low limit. Even if you do not plan to use the card for its $30k/$60k/$90k/$120k spend MQM bonuses, the perks (and companion certificate alone) are worth more than the fee. It also puts you in line for upgrades after FOs now if you do not have status.

Also you will need to push a payment if you want to avoid the AF reporting. They post when the statement generates.

As for earlier mention of charge cards and limits, they don't matter. You cannot PC to a higher AF card prior to a year. In addition to the ratio of fees and limit, an AF cannot be increased prior to a year.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

ChargedUp — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 01:17:25 GMT

Just curious, did you try hitting the love button after the upgrade?

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 06:10:01 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
@staticvoidmain wrote:
My thought was not about the limit, but the fact that you upgraded without an upgrade bonus. And gauging from your post, you did not really "need" Delta Reserve yet. I mean, you said you only upgraded out of curiosity, and care more about the limit.
I don't care about the limit. It was simply curiosity, the card was going to be closed or downgraded anyways. The common belief here is that you can't have a Delta Reserve unless you're able to qualify for the $3100 limit. The SUB was of no concern because I wouldn't have qualified for a new card. I believed there would be no change to my limit, but I was willing to see if they would bring me in line with other Delta Reserve members as there would be no new account. Despite my belief, it was still a bit of a shock when my limit didn't change to accommodate the spend that's expected of the card. The AF reporting alone, will put me at 55% utilization if I don't "prepay" in anticipation. My post shows that it is possible to have a Delta Reserve without meeting the believed minimum. Now, maybe I'll try to PC my More Rewards to a Flagship. 🤪
But, in a way it sounds like you cared (or were concerned to a degree) about the CL to the extent that you may have assumed the upgrade to the higher tier version would equate to an automatic CLI with some direct correlation to the CARD Act 🧐. IIRC, I can think of only a couple of older threads where something similar happened just like your situation, but it was with a Marriott/Bonvoy CC.

Needless to say, you have 45 days to test drive it and flip back to the current version. It's a good DP for someone who may not have evidenced or missed those buried Marriott/Bonvoy [upgrade] threads 😉

Let me put it this way, I didn't expect it to happen, but based on what I read, there was some hope. The shock was more, "these guys really left me at a $1000 limit for a $30k minimum spend card." Lol. I would have much preferred the bonvoy and would be willing to put up with it in hopes that my line will grow in time. That being said, I normally fly comfort+ so I will get value out of the annual companion pass even if I don't worry about the status. Me and the wife's last trip was about $700 each roundtrip, which alone, would have made up for the AF. Since I would be able to take advantage of the pass every year, it's pretty much still worth it to keep. My only issue at this time is trying to book 2 seats on the tiny limit.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 06:11:50 GMT

@ChargedUp wrote:
Just curious, did you try hitting the love button after the upgrade?

I did not because I was denied in October.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

wasCB14 — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 06:27:39 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner

Please stop saying the card requires $30k minimum annual spend. I understand your frustration, but unfamiliar readers may think you mean that literally.

The Delta Reserve encourages customers to spend $30k+ by giving them extra MQMs when they do. However, it is perfectly possible to get and keep the card without that kind of spend.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

adelphi_sky — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:30:55 GMT

Reminds me of what happened to me. I got approved for a card that had a SUB requirement of like $5000 spend in three months and they gave me an $1100 CL. lol Doh!

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

K-in-Boston — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 16:50:55 GMT

@adelphi_sky wrote:
Reminds me of what happened to me. I got approved for a card that had a SUB requirement of like $5000 spend in three months and they gave me an $1100 CL. lol Doh!

Ouch. That's worse than my Citi Premier approval that had a $4000 spend requirement for the SUB and a $2500 limit!

Delta Reserve definitely doesn't have a spending requirement, but it is generally targeted to those who would pursue Status Boost and meeting the MQD Waiver through large spending. But again, there are other perks that can make it well worth the cost. The companion fare will generally more than cover the AF, it gives access to Delta SkyClub for those who do not also have the Amex Platinum charge card (and an option to purchase day passes for guests), holding the card is #4 on the hierarchy for upgrades, it enables one (and a companion) to be eligible for C+ and F upgrades after FOs (Silver Medallions) are processed even if they have no status, and it (along with Platinum SkyMiles) allows one to meet a MQD Waiver (which is also an item in the upgrade hierarchy) up to Platinum Medallion status with $25k of spend across all of the cardholder's Delta credit cards.

The key takeaway here is that while Delta Reserve will not be approved for new applicants without a minimum credit line, those doing a product change to the card should in no way expect that an existing credit line will be increased to match that amount after a product change if not otherwise eligible.

Re: Delta Reserve $1000 Limit

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Nov 2020 19:24:22 GMT

Agreed, a PC/upgrade wouldn't result in a change to the CL. That's essentially the bottom line here. Now if OP had actually apped for this card perhaps the SL would have been more, who knows. Given the history I suspect not.

In the end I think DP's were found for those who were looking.