topic Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One in Credit Cards

Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:01:24 GMT

Today I received yet another e-mail from Cap1 with this AWESOME, MONEY-SAVING balance transfer offer......

13.99% variable APR for 36 months.

HUH?! I have a plethora of 0% BT offers from other banks, everyone from Amex to Discover, but Cap1 thinks FOURTEEN PERCENT interest would SAVE me money on high-interest credit cards? Okay then....

For whatever it's worth, this is the very same Cap1 that refuses to give me a CLI on any of my three cards. The same Cap1 whose interest rate is much higher than any of my other cards. (I never carry a balance on them, so it only matters as a matter of principle...or should I say principal? )

I guess to them, with their crazy high APRs on CCs, they think 14% interest really *is* money-saving. I wish it was on paper so I could have the pleasure of listening to it go through the shredder...

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:12:29 GMT

13.99 is just crazy. Do they actually think that anyone would take that?

Thanks

Mark

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

CreditInspired — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:31:54 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
Today I received yet another e-mail from Cap1 with this AWESOME, MONEY-SAVING balance transfer offer......

13.99% variable APR for 36 months.

HUH?! I have a plethora of 0% BT offers from other banks, everyone from Amex to Discover, but Cap1 thinks FOURTEEN PERCENT interest would SAVE me money on high-interest credit cards? Okay then....

For whatever it's worth, this is the very same Cap1 that refuses to give me a CLI on any of my three cards. The same Cap1 whose interest rate is much higher than any of my other cards. (I never carry a balance on them, so it only matters as a matter of principle...or should I say principal? )

I guess to them, with their crazy high APRs on CCs, they think 14% interest really *is* money-saving. I wish it was on paper so I could have the pleasure of listening to it go through the shredder...

😳

Print it out.

Then enjoy the sound of your shredder grinding it to pieces 🤣😂😆

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:32:49 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
13.99 is just crazy. Do they actually think that anyone would take that?

It is crazy, right? I mean it's not just me who thinks it's an awful rate?

I don't know why my APR is so high with them--it's like 10 percentage points higher than most of my other cards--but since I never carry a balance, I really haven't cared. But looking at it from their perspective, I guess people with APRs of 21, 22, 23% would look at 14% and think it was ~~good~~ awesome.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 23:34:29 GMT

@CreditInspired wrote:
@SoCalGardener wrote:
Today I received yet another e-mail from Cap1 with this AWESOME, MONEY-SAVING balance transfer offer......

13.99% variable APR for 36 months.

HUH?! I have a plethora of 0% BT offers from other banks, everyone from Amex to Discover, but Cap1 thinks FOURTEEN PERCENT interest would SAVE me money on high-interest credit cards? Okay then....

For whatever it's worth, this is the very same Cap1 that refuses to give me a CLI on any of my three cards. The same Cap1 whose interest rate is much higher than any of my other cards. (I never carry a balance on them, so it only matters as a matter of principle...or should I say principal? )

I guess to them, with their crazy high APRs on CCs, they think 14% interest really *is* money-saving. I wish it was on paper so I could have the pleasure of listening to it go through the shredder...

😳
Print it out.

Then enjoy the sound of your shredder grinding it to pieces 🤣😂😆

I wish I could! But my printer ran out of ink months ago, and since I've planned on replacing it, I haven't bothered buying ink. Great idea, though!

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Taurus22 — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 05:11:33 GMT

Wow. I even snubbed a 5.99% BT offer from FNBO, due to having 0% BT offers from both BoA and Discover. That one would go straight to my burn box.

I always get ripped into for talking down about CapOne, so I won't dive too deep....but this just reinforces my opinion about them. None of their cards are necessarily remarkable, even their co-branded, they don't grow too well most of the time and most require HP to do so at all, their APR's always seem to be in that 25%+ arena, and they are a triple-pull monster for mostly lackluster cards.

One of these days I know they are going to release a card that makes me eat my words, but so far.....meh.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Aim_High — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:10:49 GMT

I don't think it was personal, @SoCalGardener. But for the record, they do sometimes have better offers and maybe you'll get some of those too! For all the bashing on My Fico, I still like Capital One. They weren't even a "build/rebuild" lender for me. My Quicksilver (originally Platinum) card had prime terms, although they gave me a low SL which eventually grew.

Just wondering but what is your regular APR? Was it the 13.99% or is it higher? And did they waive the BT fee on that offer? I currently have two offers. My current APR is 11.90% since I've gotten them to lower it some over the years. They are offering me either:

0% BT for 12 months with a super-low 2% BT fee. Most of my other cards charge 3-5% with 0% offers.
WAIVE the BT fee ... and give me my standard purchase APR (11.90%) on Balance Transfers.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 05:42:57 GMT

The only thing good about Capital One, for me is the higher CL's. Mine are at 50K, 35K and 30K. But they have been at those limits for over a decade. I have never asked for a CLI in a very long time. Their rewards way back when where considered good but today they are pretty much the bottom of the barrel. They never re vamped to current conditions.

I had a BT offer from them of 5.9 and I laughed as Fifth Third, Suntrust etc keep on send out 0% for 12 to 18 months

Capital One is still back in the 1980s if you ask me

Thanks

Mark

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Gollum — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 08:08:31 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
Today I received yet another e-mail from Cap1 with this AWESOME, MONEY-SAVING balance transfer offer......

13.99% variable APR for 36 months.

HUH?! I have a plethora of 0% BT offers from other banks, everyone from Amex to Discover, but Cap1 thinks FOURTEEN PERCENT interest would SAVE me money on high-interest credit cards? Okay then....

For whatever it's worth, this is the very same Cap1 that refuses to give me a CLI on any of my three cards. The same Cap1 whose interest rate is much higher than any of my other cards. (I never carry a balance on them, so it only matters as a matter of principle...or should I say principal? )

I guess to them, with their crazy high APRs on CCs, they think 14% interest really *is* money-saving. I wish it was on paper so I could have the pleasure of listening to it go through the shredder...

An explainer of this situation with Capital One was posted on 11-01-2017 by ABCD2199:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/General-Credit-Topics/Credit-Card-Asset-Backed-Securities-ABS-and-why-some-subprime/td-p/5083619

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Shooting-For-800 — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:11:39 GMT

Many people would be thrilled to cut their interest in half for 3 years...

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:57:10 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:

I wish I could! But my printer ran out of ink months ago, and since I've planned on replacing it, I haven't bothered buying ink. Great idea, though!

Ah, as usual as more details emerge it makes sense! Cap One monitors everything and has noticed you have been out of ink and haven't replaced it. Oh oh, that's SCREAMS financial distress! Better give a high APR BT offer....

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:00:17 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
I don't think it was personal, @SoCalGardener. But for the record, they do sometimes have better offers and maybe you'll get some of those too! For all the bashing on My Fico, I still like Capital One. They weren't even a "build/rebuild" lender for me. My Quicksilver (originally Platinum) card had prime terms, although they gave me a low SL which eventually grew.

Just wondering but what is your regular APR? Was it the 13.99% or is it higher? And did they waive the BT fee on that offer? I currently have two offers. My current APR is 11.90% since I've gotten them to lower it some over the years. They are offering me either:

0% BT for 12 months with a super-low 2% BT fee. Most of my other cards charge 3-5% with 0% offers.
WAIVE the BT fee ... and give me my standard purchase APR (11.90%) on Balance Transfers.

None of my cards with Cap1 was a builder/rebuilder card either. Both Quicksilvers, one Visa and one MC, were just regular credit cards, then Walmart Rewards MC got transferred to them. They all have a 22-ish percent APR, which I chalked up to not having the greatest scores when I first joined them (mid-700s *if* I remember correctly). All along I figured they'd reduce my APR based on history and improved scores, but no!

The offer I mentioned does not have a fee--but at 14% I wouldn't consider it anyway.

My other current BT offers include 0% interest with a 3% fee, 0.99% interest with no fee, 1.99% with no fee (for a longer period), and I'm not sure what else.

I've never bothered trying to get my APR reduced with Cap1, but in light of this really insulting offer, I think I should. I think they think that I NEED cards with 22+ percent APRs, and 14% is a huge decrease and would save me money. But how do I do that? I've heard that humans don't play any part in anything to do with Cap1's decisions....

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 16:58:33 GMT

@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
Many people would be thrilled to cut their interest in half for 3 years...

I realize that. Even though I can't imagine having 28% APRs, I did acknowledge that some people would probably think this was a great deal. Just not me!

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Aim_High — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:40:22 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
... Both Quicksilvers ... have a 22-ish percent APR ...

I've never bothered trying to get my APR reduced with Cap1, but in light of this really insulting offer, I think I should. I think they think that I NEED cards with 22+ percent APRs, and 14% is a huge decrease and would save me money. But how do I do that? I've heard that humans don't play any part in anything to do with Cap1's decisions....

@SoCalGardener, it's been a while since I've done it but I'm pretty sure I just called up customer service and asked if a lower APR could be available on my account to initiate the request. While the computer algorithm rules the credit limit increase process as far as I know, that doesn't apply to APR adjustments. And yes, if you have much better rates on other cards, Capital One may think they are offering you a great deal when in fact they 'insulted' you. Lenders don't really track or keep up with what the APRs are on your other accounts so that marketing offer probably just assumed you're paying around 22% on all cards. That would explain a lot.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Shooting-For-800 — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:07:14 GMT

@SoCalGardener wrote:
@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
Many people would be thrilled to cut their interest in half for 3 years...
I realize that. Even though I can't imagine having 28% APRs, I did acknowledge that some people would probably think this was a great deal. Just not me!

What was the transfer fee?

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Aim_High — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:19:50 GMT

@Shooting-For-800 wrote:
@SoCalGardener wrote:
@Shooting-For-800 wrote: Many people would be thrilled to cut their interest in half for 3 years...
I realize that. Even though I can't imagine having 28% APRs, I did acknowledge that some people would probably think this was a great deal. Just not me!
What was the transfer fee?

Apparently, no BT fee but 13.99% APR, lower than her standing account APR for 36 months @Shooting-For-800.

@SoCalGardener wrote:

The offer I mentioned does not have a fee--but at 14% I wouldn't consider it anyway.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

brk1971 — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:26:57 GMT

@Taurus22 wrote:
I always get ripped into for talking down about CapOne, so I won't dive too deep....but this just reinforces my opinion about them. None of their cards are necessarily remarkable, even their co-branded, they don't grow too well most of the time and most require HP to do so at all, their APR's always seem to be in that 25%+ arena, and they are a triple-pull monster for mostly lackluster cards.

My opinion is that Cap1 is focused specifically on the lower side of the market, and when you grow past it, it no longer has use. I have one myself and it remains sock drawered (and will continue as such) because I have choices and they don't match up well in an even comparison.

Cap1 defenders can flame away. The reality is that the APR, CL, and earnings programs are certainly worthwhile evaluation criteria for each person, and the threads here seem to back up the idea that nondedicated use of their cards results in growth stagnation. And I'm not dedicating use to a card with paltry to moderate earnings just to get them to value me as much as other lenders do.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SUPERSQUID — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:36:07 GMT

The shredder comment reminds me of a time when i had 7 cap one cards in 2003 or 2004. for no good reason they jacked the interest on one of the cards. i was steaming and called them to cancel it. i got the usual song and dance to keep it open including lowering the interest by 5 points but i didnt budge. then a supervisor got on the phone trying to convince me of keeping it open., while he was talking i put the card in my office shredder, i said to him " you know what that noise is "? he answered no and i said its your card going through the shredder.

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

SoCalGardener — Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:43:35 GMT

@brk1971 wrote:
My opinion is that Cap1 is focused specifically on the lower side of the market, and when you grow past it, it no longer has use. I have one myself and it remains sock drawered (and will continue as such) because I have choices and they don't match up well in an even comparison.
Cap1 defenders can flame away. The reality is that the APR, CL, and earnings programs are certainly worthwhile evaluation criteria for each person, and the threads here seem to back up the idea that nondedicated use of their cards results in growth stagnation. And I'm not dedicating use to a card with paltry to moderate earnings just to get them to value me as much as other lenders do.

Very well said! And I totally agree.

Based on their advertising over the years, using well-known, A-list personalities to tout their cards, I assumed they were a good CC provider. I shouldn't have made that assumption! I guess A-list stars are happy to take money to tout whatever company/product as long as their payday is big enough.

I recently jumped through hoops, four months in a row, to get 7.5% cash back on my monthly Chewy orders. Cap1 always shows me a bunch of offers for shopping at various retailers, and I usually just ignore them because I'm already happy with the rewards I'm getting on the cards I use. But the Chewy one caught my eye--I mean 7.5%?! I'll take that. Anyway, I couldn't use my default browser, which works fine on Cap1, but would not work on their page for these shopping rewards. So I had to fire up a different browser, meaning I couldn't auto-login to Chewy or Cap1 (since my default browser has all my info), then go to the offer on Cap1, use its link to go to Chewy, place my order, and cross my fingers that I'll actually get credited. It said it would take 2-3 billing cycles to appear. I have yet to see any result, but I'm giving up on this method. It's just too much hassle!

Re: Really insulting BT offer from Capital One

Aim_High — Sat, 25 Sep 2021 00:11:35 GMT

@brk1971 wrote:
@Taurus22 wrote:
I always get ripped into for talking down about CapOne, so I won't dive too deep....but this just reinforces my opinion about them. None of their cards are necessarily remarkable, even their co-branded, they don't grow too well most of the time and most require HP to do so at all, their APR's always seem to be in that 25%+ arena, and they are a triple-pull monster for mostly lackluster cards.
My opinion is that Cap1 is focused specifically on the lower side of the market, and when you grow past it, it no longer has use. I have one myself and it remains sock drawered (and will continue as such) because I have choices and they don't match up well in an even comparison.
Cap1 defenders can flame away. The reality is that the APR, CL, and earnings programs are certainly worthwhile evaluation criteria for each person, and the threads here seem to back up the idea that nondedicated use of their cards results in growth stagnation. And I'm not dedicating use to a card with paltry to moderate earnings just to get them to value me as much as other lenders do.

There's no need for ripping or flame-throwing. We're adults, we can have a civil discourse, and in the end we can make our own evaluation. We've all had our own individual experience with our lenders and those experiences may be quite different. So I think it's not only possible but also important to be respectful of each other and to recognize those differences. I've "defended" Capital One on My Fico before, but I'm not a Capital One cheerleader either. They just clearly aren't in the same boat with some of the other targeted subprime lenders. Their customers and products are more a mixture of prime-subprime. That said, I agree with some of the criticisms.

Capital One has a history of triple-pulling the credit bureaus.
Capital One approves many cards on subprime profiles and leaves them bucketed with low limits or annual fees.
Even on prime cards, Capital One cards (at least in recent years) grow slowly and require moderate-to-heavy usage to grow.
Capital One's rewards programs don't currently dominate the market in any spend category.

On the other hand, from my experience, there is much more good than bad. Capital One has been an innovator before and I don't believe they are done shaking up the card market.

The Quicksilver Rewards card was an industry leader in 1.5% cash back in 2013, well before 2% cards were available. Their innovation greatly contributed to other lenders following suit. Quicksilver was named to Money Magazine's best card list in 2013. Sure, it needs a refresh but 2% is not yet really the industry-standard on cash back. It's moving in that direction but it's not fully there yet. I think our criticisms on My Fico are too harsh because we are much more aware of all the better offerings available. Among the big lenders, Bank of America just introduced a 1.5% cash back card; Wells Fargo just upped the ante to 2% with Active Cash from Cash Wise's 1.5%; AMEX still doesn't offer a personal card paying more than 1.5% cash back; Discover's best uncapped and uncategorized cash back offering is Discover IT Miles that effectively earns 1.5% cash back; and US Bank still doesn't offer a card that pays more than 1% uncategorized and uncapped cash back.

The Quicksilver Rewards card was novel in offering immediate account credits and no minimum redemption values of cash back accrued. Their innovation contributed to other lenders following suit.

The Venture card was novel in offering travel credits against any travel changes as an account credit.

The Savor card with the $95 AF and 4% unlimited cash back on dining, entertainment, and selected streaming remains a leader in that segment for cash-back rewards. Barclay's original UBER Visa rewarded 4 points (4%) on dining but the benefit was later nerfed to 3% and the card has been discontinued. US Bank's Altitude GO launched last year earning 4 points (4%) on dining and appears to be the closest current cash-back competitor. Altitude GO doesn't have an annual fee, but it also doesn't have 4% rewards on entertainment and only has a $15 streaming credit instead of 4% on streaming. Yes, there are cards like the new Citi Custom Cash where you can earn 5% on up to only $500 per month ($6K annual cap) on dining. Or Discover IT/Freedom that offer 5% but only in a single quarter on dining, and with a $1500 cap. And there are premium cards that earn higher values in travel points (MR/UR/TY) on dining. But for year-round, uncapped cash back on dining, the Savor is still one of the top cards. The higher the spend, the better the rewards of course. For lower spend, the no-AF Savor One might be a better pick with 3% cash back. So Capital One is offering a card that beats the earnings in-category from many other competitors.

As for other positive comments regarding Capital One:

Capital One's prime cards do grow. My Quicksilver grew from $1K to $25K. We have members with cards well into the two and sometimes even three-digit credit limit range with Capital One. (See this thread.)

Capital One doesn't have a super-low interest rate card, but the 11.90% APR on my Quicksilver is highly competitive for a rewards card with a major national bank. And they've offered me numerous and generous balance transfer offers over the years. I've seen other low-APR cards including a Venture card at 9.99% APR (@galahad15.)

Capital One has No Foreign Transaction Fees on many of their cards, which is not something you can always expect from large national banks on no-AF cards.

My customer experience with Capital One has always been solid. That is consistent with their third-place finish per JD Power (2021) in the entire US card industry behind only American Express and Discover, and above the industry average. Fraud prevention has been proactive and outstanding. My Quicksilver card has always been accepted for purchases, even when traveling, and never denied. My interactions with customer service have been polite and helpful. Transactions post promptly and accurately to my account. Web and mobile app interface has been very stable and smooth. J.D. Power has consistently rated Capital One's mobile banking app very high in its annual “Highest in Customer Satisfaction Among Mobile Banking Apps” study. (Apple App Store 4.8/5; Google Play Store 4.6/5)

For banking, Capital One offers some competitive products. I have several high-yield online savings accounts including their 360 Performance Savings that earns 0.40% APY which is the same high return on similar accounts from American Express and Discover. Their 360 Checking account has no monthly fee, no minimums, 70K free ATMs, and other attractive features. These are not products you'll find with pure subprime lenders.

Again, not trying to convince anyone otherwise, and I completely respect those who decide Capital One is not for them. But since the conversation went there, I only thought it appropriate to add the counterpoints and documentation for the community's reference. Now, back to @SoCalGardener's discussion of the insulting balance transfer offer.