topic Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7] in Credit Cards

AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

CreditPacMan — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:29:42 GMT

I was going through the current offer for the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant card (after being approved 3 days ago) to make sure I cover all aspects and not miss a thing, and came across this clause:

Welcome offer not available to applicants who (i) have or have had The Ritz-Carlton™ Credit Card from JPMorgan or the J.P. Morgan Ritz-Carlton Rewards® Credit Card in the last 30 days, (ii) have acquired the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy Bold™ Credit Card from Chase

As a now "former" Chase Marriott card holder, I assume I am now disqualified? I have since closed the Chase account, but does that mean I can work now towards this SUB offer?

I have yet to receive the physical card, as it is stuck with Fedex, so I cannot even start to put any spend to it.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

simplynoir — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:35:41 GMT

According to this chart as long as you hadn't opened the Chase Marriott card in the last 90 days and it's been 24 months since you got the bonus you're clear to get the Bonvoy Brilliant

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

CreditPacMan — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:44:51 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
According to this chart as long as you hadn't opened the Chase Marriott card in the last 90 days and it's been 24 months since you got the bonus you're clear to get the Bonvoy Brilliant

So section ii of the above clause only applies for 24 months? I will go read the conditions again more closely.

If want to confirm, I assume I can just call AMEX and ask if I have the offer?

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

simplynoir — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:52:55 GMT

@CreditPacMan wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:
According to this chart as long as you hadn't opened the Chase Marriott card in the last 90 days and it's been 24 months since you got the bonus you're clear to get the Bonvoy Brilliant
So section ii of the above clause only applies for 24 months? I will go read the conditions again more closely.

If want to confirm, I assume I can just call AMEX and ask if I have the offer?

Yes, to confirm I would call or chat with AMEX to verify. Marriott really made things confusing with all the cards from both AMEX and Chase but the chart has been shared on various websites including TPG so I'm assuming it's accurate

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

simplynoir — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 04:10:40 GMT

@CreditPacMan wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:
According to this chart as long as you hadn't opened the Chase Marriott card in the last 90 days and it's been 24 months since you got the bonus you're clear to get the Bonvoy Brilliant
So section ii of the above clause only applies for 24 months? I will go read the conditions again more closely.

If want to confirm, I assume I can just call AMEX and ask if I have the offer?

@CreditPacMan, the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant T&C state the 24 month language here. This is copy/pasted from there:

"Welcome offer not available to applicants who (i) have or have had The Ritz-Carlton™ Credit Card from JPMorgan or the J.P. Morgan Ritz-Carlton Rewards® Credit Card in the last 30 days, (ii) have acquired the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy Bold™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase or the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase in the last 90 days, or (iii) received a new Card Member bonus or upgrade offer for the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ Credit Card from Chase, Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy Bold™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase or the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase in the last 24 months."

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

CreditPacMan — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 04:31:49 GMT

@simplynoir wrote:
@CreditPacMan wrote:
@simplynoir wrote:
According to this chart as long as you hadn't opened the Chase Marriott card in the last 90 days and it's been 24 months since you got the bonus you're clear to get the Bonvoy Brilliant
So section ii of the above clause only applies for 24 months? I will go read the conditions again more closely.

If want to confirm, I assume I can just call AMEX and ask if I have the offer?
@CreditPacMan, the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant T&C state the 24 month language here. This is copy/pasted from there:

"Welcome offer not available to applicants who (i) have or have had The Ritz-Carlton™ Credit Card from JPMorgan or the J.P. Morgan Ritz-Carlton Rewards® Credit Card in the last 30 days, (ii) have acquired the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy Bold™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase or the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase in the last 90 days, or (iii) received a new Card Member bonus or upgrade offer for the Marriott Bonvoy Boundless™ Credit Card from Chase, Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Rewards® Premier Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy Bold™ Credit Card from Chase, the Marriott Bonvoy™ Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase or the Marriott Rewards® Premier Plus Business Credit Card from Chase in the last 24 months."

Yes, the language is confusing. Reading this sounds like if you ever had a Chase Marriott you are not qualified. Thanks for confirming.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

CreditPacMan — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 06:38:50 GMT

So appearntly I am not eligible for the sign up offer. I chatted with AMEX and this is what they told me:

Your account is not eligible for the welcome bonus offer based on your history with credit Card balance transfers, American Express welcome offers, introductory APR offers, or the number of Cards you have opened and closed.

Which is weird. I never had any balance transfer with AMEX, but it seems they are mad that I closed so many accounts with them. In 2018 I closed all my 5 AMEX accounts (that were all stuck at a $1000 SL). In April I also closed another $1000 BCP. I should add that in signing up for these accounts, my goal was never the SUB but rather the perks associated with it. So while AMEX may be mad at people who open the card, spend to get the SUB then close it before the AF hits I did none of that!

In the end, the agent told me the SUB is by solicitation only and per the terms on my account there is no offer!

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

FinStar — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 08:27:50 GMT

So it sounds like no Bonvoy SUB. Well bummer, OP. Their rules, I suppose.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB

NRB525 — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 11:14:41 GMT

Sorry that you get no SUB.
The language they sent you has the "or" relation and is pure boilerplate approved by the Legal department. CSR would all have this as their canned response to questions about "why did I not get a SUB?" Said differently, no CSR would be allowed to answer any other way, never allowed to try to provide a personal response to a cardholder about this topic.

They don't necessarily care that you didn't do any Balance Transfers, or really any of the list of possibilities there. It's just a calm way of informing you of their decision.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

Aim_High — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:19:46 GMT

Sorry to hear about your SUB-ineligible status, @CreditPacMan. That stinks since you already applied.

I had a preapproval for a Hilton card in May but was told I was SUB-ineligible before completing the application. (See this post.) I'm supposing they didn't give you the benefit of a warning but decided after-the-fact to exclude you? IMO, American Express seems particularly over-zealous about preventing abuses of rewards, to the extent that their net catches some of us who are attracted by the rewards but also have honorable long-term intentions to keep the cards.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

CreditPacMan — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:13:51 GMT

@Aim_High They claim it was in some "pop-up" that I never remember seeing before I applied. Last thing I remember was asking me if I wanted to add an AU (before clicking submit).

Yes, their algorithm seems to only look at account closures, not whether a SUB was acquired followed by a quick account closure. I don't understand why people do this, sometimes they close the account for as low of AF as $50 (not with AMEX for sure). And when a giant like AMEX looks to cut losses, they simply don't care if their process affects a genuine card member.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

dragontears — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:22:55 GMT

@CreditPacMan wrote:
@Aim_High They claim it was in some "pop-up" that I never remember seeing before I applied. Last thing I remember was asking me if I wanted to add an AU (before clicking submit).
Yes, their algorithm seems to only look at account closures, not whether a SUB was acquired followed by a quick account closure. I don't understand why people do this, sometimes they close the account for as low of AF as $50 (not with AMEX for sure). And when a giant like AMEX looks to cut losses, they simply don't care if their process affects a genuine card member.

Not necessarily just for closing cards, I have received the infamous pop up but have never closed a Amex card. I think in my case it was because I carried a balance on an Amex card while it was under 0% promo (which was paid off shortly before I got the pop up).

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

Aim_High — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 20:14:31 GMT

@dragontears wrote:
@CreditPacMan wrote:
@Aim_High They claim it was in some "pop-up" that I never remember seeing before I applied. Last thing I remember was asking me if I wanted to add an AU (before clicking submit).
Yes, their algorithm seems to only look at account closures, not whether a SUB was acquired followed by a quick account closure. I don't understand why people do this, sometimes they close the account for as low of AF as $50 (not with AMEX for sure). And when a giant like AMEX looks to cut losses, they simply don't care if their process affects a genuine card member.
Not necessarily just for closing cards, I have received the infamous pop up but have never closed a Amex card. I think in my case it was because I carried a balance on an Amex card while it was under 0% promo (which was paid off shortly before I got the pop up).

Agreed that it can be a combination of factors and not just related to AMEX accounts. See my linked thread above for my personal data points. I was in my first 12 months on the Gold card with my first-ever AMEX SUB and multiple prior satisfactory AMEX accounts (without SUBs.) However, I had opened many new accounts and had multiple non-AMEX closed accounts in the past 36-60 months, but none were related to SUB-chasing. (Most were older BT cards or store cards for in-store financing like at furniture stores. Most had been open for much longer than two years and were idle after being paid down, so no reason to keep them open. So it seems they consider closing any cards as a potential negative, since they don't really know those circumstances with other lenders.) I got that "pop-up" so I didn't complete the application.

Re: AMEX Bonvoy SUB [UPDATE -Message #7]

FinStar — Fri, 01 Oct 2021 20:32:57 GMT

@dragontears wrote:
@CreditPacMan wrote:
@Aim_High They claim it was in some "pop-up" that I never remember seeing before I applied. Last thing I remember was asking me if I wanted to add an AU (before clicking submit).
Yes, their algorithm seems to only look at account closures, not whether a SUB was acquired followed by a quick account closure. I don't understand why people do this, sometimes they close the account for as low of AF as $50 (not with AMEX for sure). And when a giant like AMEX looks to cut losses, they simply don't care if their process affects a genuine card member.
Not necessarily just for closing cards, I have received the infamous pop up but have never closed a Amex card. I think in my case it was because I carried a balance on an Amex card while it was under 0% promo (which was paid off shortly before I got the pop up).

The only time I've ever gotten the SUB pop-up is when I was pre-approved for the former SPG card a couple years ago. Their systems detected I still had the RITZ plus 2 Chase Bonvoy CCs (biz & pers) as active accounts. And, since Chase 5/24 is real (unless black/green star preapprovals occur), I decided to forego the app at the time. Granted, it would have been approved, just no SUB. Still a very lucratve card (obviously the SUB is a great incentive) -- so I might try the Bonvoy biz version, even if I have to forego the SUB...we'll see.