topic Re: Help me simplify in Credit Cards

Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 06:53:32 GMT

I've been using just a few cards in the last year. I plan to close some. Please let me know about any changes to these cards that may affect my decisions.

Most of my travel involves me going to places where I stay:

1. With family

2. At a small, independent hotel

3. At a moderately priced (but still high-category) place in a high-cost area.

...so I'm not too attached to hotel cards' annual nights. I have a lot of points with Hyatt, Marriott, and IHG. I may eventually want to close these cards but don't want to risk my points expiring from account inactivity.

Most of my flights are out of LAX so cash prices are usually pretty competitive. As a usually bottom-status traveler, I do like Delta Skyclubs for the ability to skip long lines to rebook in the event of a cancellation.

My CLs are adequate for my spend and utilization is not a concern.

Green = Likely to keep

Black = Somewhat indifferent

Red: Thinking of closing

Amex:

Schwab Platinum: Keep. I will be flying more again and use Delta lounges. The weird credits actually kind of fit my spending.

Amex Platinum (regular personal): I got this a year and a few days ago for the SUB and supermarket promo. I plan to PC to Gold when the AF posts in a few days. This will be my main dining and non-Costco grocery card.

BBP: I use this for my expenses as an accountant.

Lowes Business AU: I use this for expenses in property management.

Delta Platinum: I use this for free checked bags and the companion pass.

EDP and BCP: I play upgrade/downgrade games with these for SUBs.

Amex "Old SPG" Bonvoy card: I've kept it mainly to keep my points active and use the monthly dining credit.

Barclays:

Arrival: As contactless payments become more and more common, is a backup PIN card really relevant?

Jetblue: Got it for the SUB. I may close this soon.

(Side Note: I got the Jetblue card a year and a few days ago with a two-part SUB. I applied on 11/4/20, was approved on 11/8/20, met the first part of the spend requirement quickly, forgot about the card for a while, then spent the remaining requirement on 11/5/21 and it posted 11/7/21. The second part of the SUB has not posted yet. The language is that I had to spend it within 12 months. Did I have to spend it a few weeks earlier to get it into the 12th billing cycle? Should I call? Give it a few more days or until the end of the cycle to see if it posts? Or am I out of luck? Can I at least get the 5k renewal points and them dump it for an AF refund?)

Chase:

Freedom Flex: My oldest card (2013), though I have come to dislike rotating categories.

Freedom: Again, not a fan of rotating categories.

Hyatt: Mostly for the annual night and to keep points active.

IHG: Mostly for the annual night and to keep points active.

CFU: An old CSP downgrade from when I was really into URs. I want to close this to avoid confusion with the other CFU.

CFU AU: A new card for property management expenses.

Bank of America (Platinum Honors):

WWF Cash Rewards: Online shopping and Costco.

Premum Rewards: Estimated taxes, utilities, and insurance.

Citi:

Costco Visa: Convenient for gas and good for extended warranty purchases. Customer service isn't great so I wouldn't use it anywhere outside of Costco.

Double Cash: I've read could PC this to a Rewards+ and then a Custom Cash to use for dining, but it doesn't seem worth carrying for 5x/5% if most restaurants will take Amex and give me 4x MRs with Gold.

Discover:

5% It: I haven't used it in ages. My second-oldest card (2014). A joint card with DM. Various card shipping address mixups (my replacement card to her address) and false fraud alarms. And I don't like tracking rotating categories anymore. Have they added anything useful?

Re: Help me simplify

SouthJamaica — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:53:00 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
I've been using just a few cards in the last year. I plan to close some. Please let me know about any changes to these cards that may affect my decisions.

Most of my travel involves me going to places where I stay:
1. With family
2. At a small, independent hotel
3. At a moderately priced (but still high-category) place in a high-cost area.

...so I'm not too attached to hotel cards' annual nights. I have a lot of points with Hyatt, Marriott, and IHG. I may eventually want to close these cards but don't want to risk my points expiring from account inactivity.

Most of my flights are out of LAX so cash prices are usually pretty competitive. As a usually bottom-status traveler, I do like Delta Skyclubs for the ability to skip long lines to rebook in the event of a cancellation.

My CLs are adequate for my spend and utilization is not a concern.

Green = Likely to keep
Black = Somewhat indifferent
Red: Thinking of closing

Amex:
Schwab Platinum: Keep. I will be flying more again and use Delta lounges. The weird credits actually kind of fit my spending.
Amex Platinum (regular personal): I got this a year and a few days ago for the SUB and supermarket promo. I plan to PC to Gold when the AF posts in a few days. This will be my main dining and non-Costco grocery card.
BBP: I use this for my expenses as an accountant.
Lowes Business AU: I use this for expenses in property management.
Delta Platinum: I use this for free checked bags and the companion pass.
EDP and BCP: I play upgrade/downgrade games with these for SUBs.
Amex "Old SPG" Bonvoy card: I've kept it mainly to keep my points active and use the monthly dining credit.

Barclays:
Arrival: As contactless payments become more and more common, is a backup PIN card really relevant?
Jetblue: Got it for the SUB. I may close this soon.
(Side Note: I got the Jetblue card a year and a few days ago with a two-part SUB. I applied on 11/4/20, was approved on 11/8/20, met the first part of the spend requirement quickly, forgot about the card for a while, then spent the remaining requirement on 11/5/21 and it posted 11/7/21. The second part of the SUB has not posted yet. The language is that I had to spend it within 12 months. Did I have to spend it a few weeks earlier to get it into the 12th billing cycle? Should I call? Give it a few more days or until the end of the cycle to see if it posts? Or am I out of luck? Can I at least get the 5k renewal points and them dump it for an AF refund?)

Chase:
Freedom Flex: My oldest card (2013), though I have come to dislike rotating categories.
Freedom: Again, not a fan of rotating categories.
Hyatt: Mostly for the annual night and to keep points active.
IHG: Mostly for the annual night and to keep points active.
CFU: An old CSP downgrade from when I was really into URs. I want to close this to avoid confusion with the other CFU.
CFU AU: A new card for property management expenses.

Bank of America (Platinum Honors):
WWF Cash Rewards: Online shopping and Costco.
Premum Rewards: Estimated taxes, utilities, and insurance.

Citi:
Costco Visa: Convenient for gas and good for extended warranty purchases. Customer service isn't great so I wouldn't use it anywhere outside of Costco.
Double Cash: I've read could PC this to a Rewards+ and then a Custom Cash to use for dining, but it doesn't seem worth carrying for 5x/5% if most restaurants will take Amex and give me 4x MRs with Gold.

Discover:
5% It: I haven't used it in ages. My second-oldest card (2014). A joint card with DM. Various card shipping address mixups (my replacement card to her address) and false fraud alarms. And I don't like tracking rotating categories anymore. Have they added anything useful?

I'm not a points and miles card aficionado, but my 2 cents are:

I agree with you on getting rid of the Discover card

I found the Jet Blue card to be pretty good

I would not use a personal card like the CFU for business expenses

I would not get rid of the Double Cash card which is so good for non-category payments

Re: Help me simplify

BearsCubsOtters — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:09:33 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:

I'm not a points and miles card aficionado, but my 2 cents are:

I agree with you on getting rid of the Discover card

I found the Jet Blue card to be pretty good

I would not use a personal card like the CFU for business expenses

I would not get rid of the Double Cash card which is so good for non-category payments

+ 1

@wasCB14 if you are ever under 5/24 a Chase Ink Unlimited would work the same as the two CFU but the Ink Unlimited would be for your property management and the CFU for personal. Plus a good sign up bonus if you have the spend.

I would get rid of the second Amex Platinum for sure and anything Barclay's. Europe and Canada are mostly contactless now and the US is actually keeping up so PIN is not as useful anymore.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:16:03 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
I'm not a points and miles card aficionado, but my 2 cents are:

I agree with you on getting rid of the Discover card

I found the Jet Blue card to be pretty good

I would not use a personal card like the CFU for business expenses

I would not get rid of the Double Cash card which is so good for non-category payments

SUBs are nice (even if I end up missing part of it). But I fly Delta more than Jetblue.

We've tried to get Ink cards with Chase. The real estate is owned through trusts, and those don't fit neatly into the categories of sole proprietorships, partnerships, and corporations Chase lends to as businesses. Chase Private Client salessuits were useless at helping there, and Amex wouldn't issue a BBP for the trusts when we applied online. I'm not sure how she got the Lowes Amex Business Card. I'd guess someone at the store just said she was a sole proprietor on the application. At least she got a $250 single-purchase discount for it.

I have BofA PR with Platinum Honors so 2.625% is my cash back floor. I'm not always sure how to value MRs, but 2% isn't relevant. The DC is just an old downgraded Prestige.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:22:12 GMT

@BearsCubsOtters wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:

I'm not a points and miles card aficionado, but my 2 cents are:

I agree with you on getting rid of the Discover card

I found the Jet Blue card to be pretty good

I would not use a personal card like the CFU for business expenses

I would not get rid of the Double Cash card which is so good for non-category payments
+ 1

@wasCB14 if you are ever under 5/24 a Chase Ink Unlimited would work the same as the two CFU but the Ink Unlimited would be for your property management and the CFU for personal. Plus a good sign up bonus if you have the spend.

I would get rid of the second Amex Platinum for sure and anything Barclay's. Europe and Canada are mostly contactless now and the US is actually keeping up so PIN is not as useful anymore.

We tried to get a CIU but Chase wouldn't approve it as in their eyes the trusts are essentially investments and not businesses.

I may do one round of closures and then decide on Arrival a few months later.

Re: Help me simplify

K-in-Boston — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:41:13 GMT

Since you have BBP and are going to PC to Gold, would it make sense to swap out your Schwab Platinum for Business Platinum, or just add the latter if the coupon book works in your favor already? If you are ultimately using MRs for flights and you mentioned cash fares out of LAX, unless you are doing better by transferring to a partner it's simple to effectively get 2.1666% per MR through Amex Travel for your selected airline (or J/F on any airline) from the lifecycle of redeem-rebate-redeem-rebate. That's been my primary strategy since last year.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 18:59:12 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Since you have BBP and are going to PC to Gold, would it make sense to swap out your Schwab Platinum for Business Platinum, or just add the latter if the coupon book works in your favor already? If you are ultimately using MRs for flights and you mentioned cash fares out of LAX, unless you are doing better by transferring to a partner it's simple to effectively get 2.1666% per MR through Amex Travel for your selected airline (or J/F on any airline) from the lifecycle of redeem-rebate-redeem-rebate. That's been my primary strategy since last year.

It's not out of the question. I had thought the Dell credit was $100 semiannually but the Amex site says it's $200 semiannually so $400 annually. I've considered a new desktop tower and could probably find some useful accessories. Costco's selection of ~$1k-$2k Dell computers hasn't gotten pretty inconsistent and limited. But at some point that might blur the business/personal use distinction.

And then there's the airline extras credit.

A bit of a dilemma. If I get a Business Platinum for my accounting work, I have limited business spend but could use the credits. If I get it for the property management work, I have a lot of spend but can't really use the credits. I guess I could say I'm a sole proprietor as a contract employee of the property management? I don't think Amex will lend to the trusts, anyway, so the card even wouldn't be in the name of the trusts.

That 2.16 is from those "insider fares" with fewer points needed for flights, right? Combined with the 35% of points back? Even 1.75 or so cpp would be nice.

Adding seems more likely than replacing. With the Schwab loyalty credit, Uber credit, airline credit, and NY Times credit...all of which are natural (or only slightly modified) spend for me...that's already the Schwab AF there.

I could probably get a Business Platinum to work. I'll think it over.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:02:50 GMT

I just closed the old CFU and the DC. Those were easy ones.

I'll think over the Business Platinum options.

I don't anticipate any travel to Japan or China, but I've heard people say Discover generally works smoothly over the JCB and UnionPay networks. But if I did go there I'd want a CL that can grow and isn't stuck at $3k due to the complications of a joint account. This one I'll close before year end.

Re: Help me simplify

Aim_High — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:40:28 GMT

This is the most detail I think I've ever seen about your lineup, @wasCB14. While we have some major differences, we also share some similarities. I have a far less AMEX presence and am unsure about my long-term MR valuation. Like you, I have BofA Platinum Honors with a Premium Rewards and Customized Cash Rewards. I also have Discover, Citi Costco, and Chase cards. I like many of your suggested changes, including migrating away from most hotel cards (although I'm planning to keep just my new Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant.) I have also always disliked rotating categories, merchant catergory code restrictions, and spending caps. My Discover card dates back to the original version which got less than 1% net; then the true 1% Discover More; and later the Chrome and IT versions.

That AMEX combo of CS Platinum - Gold - BBP in particular is quite powerful and works well together. I like it. While I have the Gold, the Gold and BBP are a combination I've considered. (Platinum doesn't appeal to me for the credits, high AF, and my travel patterns.)

However, of concern, the first thing that stands out to me is how your changes further consolidate your cards and rewards with AMEX and MRs. It's a heavy investment and would not leave you a lot of options if your lender relationship changed or MRs became devalued to you. I've spend some time in recent years diversifying myself among rewards cards for that very reason. While I agree it's fine to focus the majority of spending on a system where you can best utilize the rewards structure, my personal opinion is that lender diversity, network diversity, and rewards diversity is a valuable asset to keep in the wings. In terms of this, you've only got one well-developed backup for AMEX and that is your BofA PR+CCR. Your rewards cards with Chase and Citi aren't well-optimized. If you were to close all the cards except for the definite keepers, here is what the new lineup would look like:

AMEX:

Schwab Platinum
Gold (PC from personal Platinum)
Blue Business Plus
Delta Platinum
Lowes Business AU

Chase:

Freedom Flex
CFU AU

Bank of America (Platinum Honors):

WWF Customized Cash Rewards
Premum Rewards

Citi:

Costco Visa

I do like your thoughts of:

Downgrading personal AMEX Platinum to Gold
Closing AMEX Everyday Preferred
Closing AMEX Blue Cash Preferred
Closing old AMEX "SPG" Bonvoy
Closing Barclay Arrival
Closing Barclay JetBlue
Closing Chase Hyatt
Closing Chase IHG

Keeping the Bank of America cards as-is is important since it's your best rewards strategy after AMEX/MRs.

I would consider keeping and/or bulking up a little on both Chase and Citi as alternate points earning machines. It sounds like you do enough travel and value points enough to diversify into more than one ecosystem. With Chase, since you dislike the rotating categories, have a bunch of cards you'd like to close, and are using the Freedom Unlimited for property management, I would suggest a simple two or three Chase card lineup. Upgrade the Freedom to the Sapphire Preferred where you'll get 1.25x UR on all your business Freedom Unlimited spending. You could use a single Freedom Unlimited and call it a day. Or, if you'd like to keep personal versus business spending separate, keep a 2nd Freedom Unlimited but just keep it in a different area of your wallet, use it from the sock drawer with some smaller recurring charges, or put a mark on it with a sharpie to distinguish them apart. Chase will allow you to roll those credit limits over onto one or two cards, so that preserves them. If you decided to later focus on URs again, upgrading the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve would be easy and would net you at least 2.25% in travel on everything you buy with the CFU. And it also preserves the transfer partner option. Transferring points is one way to keep your Hyatt, Marriott, and/or IHG bonus pools alive. While YMMV with Marriott and IHG in terms of redemption value, the transfer to Hyatt can be attractive this way. CSP gives you another good Visa Signature card for network diversity, plus primary rental car insurance, trip protections, and a one-year extended warranty bonus everywhere you shop. Chase recently upgraded the benefits on CSP while keeping the AF at $95. There's a $50 annual hotel credit and also a 10% annual UR bonus on purchases.

With Citi, I would not only consider keeping the Double Cash but also pairing it with the Premier as a new card. Transferring TY points from DC to the Premier allows you to use them up to 1.7 ccp, turning DC into potentially a ~3.4% rewards card. And Premier earns 3x TY points on gas, restaurants, groceries, flights and hotels, effectively up to about 5.1%. The $95 AF can be completely reimbursed ($100 credit) with one annual hotel stay of $500 or more. As with my CSP suggestion, the Premier allows you to retain the option of points transfer to partners. And Citi gives you that network diversity with Mastercards on both Double Cash and Premier.

I would keep the Discover card but that's just me. I've had good experiences with them with customer service, IT support (mobile app/website), and fraud prevention. I like the free TU Score 8 monitoring and dark web monitoring, since I don't pay for those services elsewhere. They continue to offer me regular Balance Transfers if I were to need that. It adds the 4th (although minor) payment network to my lineup. Discover is one of the eight largest US card issuers. In my case, my Discover is my oldest currently-open account and has a great credit limit. I've found it needs little attention to keep it open. As one of the largest card issuers, there's a chance they will innovate and offer something more compeitive, and keeping a card open with them allows the option of a PC. Finally, it is your second-oldest card.

With Bank of America, Chase, and Citi being three of the top five banks and with all of them offering superior travel rewards programs, I think having that diversity as a backup against your AMEX strategy could be a wise move.

I'm counting that you have about 21 cards now total. If you following all these suggestions, you would have:

AMEX:

Schwab Platinum
Gold
Blue Business Plus
Delta Platinum
Lowes Business (AU)

Chase:

Sapphire Preferred
Freedom Unlimited (personal)
Freedom Unlimited (AU)

Bank of America (Platinum Honors):

WWF Customized Cash Rewards
Premum Rewards

Citi:

Costco Visa
Premier Mastercard
Double Cash Mastercard

... and possibly ...

Discover

Discover IT

That would leave you with ten (or eleven) personal cards on which you are primary and reporting to the CRBs. That's still a nice mix. You would be diversified with five of the eight largest card issuers in the US. You would be diversified with three of the five largest banks and have your pick of some of the best travel rewards programs and travel partners available. You would be diversifed by payment networks among not only AMEX but also Visa, Mastercard, and possibly Discover. And, you would have two business cards (AMEX Lowe's and Blue Business Plus) as well as two Authorized User cards (AMEX Lowe's and the second CFU.)

Of course, this is a longer-term plan. I would close and/or open cards in stages as I moved in this direction.

Re: Help me simplify

Aim_High — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:45:23 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
I just closed the old CFU and the DC. Those were easy ones.

... You posted this while I was composing a response so guess I didn't catch you quickly enough.

Did you preserve your credit limits with Chase by transferring the limits to another card?

While you did close the DC and I imagine that can't be undone, it's still possible to product change other cards around so that you have a Chase Sapphire Preferred and a personal Chase Freedom Unlimited along with the one for business spend.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 21:14:56 GMT

@Aim_High Thanks for the detailed thoughts!

I had CSP for 2015-2018 before I PCed it to CFU (which I just closed to avoid confusing the two CFUs).

I had CSR for 2018-2020 before downgrading it to be the second Freedom (still an open account). I actually will be eligible (under the current 48-month language) for a new (third) Sapphire SUB in mid-2022. So from a SUB perspective, it's a possibility.

Upgrading to a Sapphire (and not getting a SUB) isn't as appealing.

Generally I have less time than before to micromanage a lot of different rewards programs. For now, Amex works for me, and I have adequate CLs with BofA/Citi/Chase if needed.

I'll look at the Discover dark web monitoring before I close it.

The Citi TY rewards program hasn't interested me since the days of price rewind, Admirals access, 1.6 cpp revenue AA redemptions, and easy 4NF.

The reasons I dropped CSR were:

1. I had a lot of Hyatt and United points, so didn't need further transfers.

2. Amex gives CA residents a good deal for primary rental coverage, paying per infrequent rental.

3. An increasing preference for Delta.

PR and WWFCR fit my non-Amex spend well enough that there's just not enough spend to justify TYs or URs outside of SUB chasing. Maybe that will change with the new "business" CFU. Maybe I'll accrue URs and get a CSR in in 6-8 months.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 21:19:24 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:
I just closed the old CFU and the DC. Those were easy ones.
... You posted this while I was composing a response so guess I didn't catch you quickly enough.

Did you preserve your credit limits with Chase by transferring the limits to another card?

While you did close the DC and I imagine that can't be undone, it's still possible to product change other cards around so that you have a Chase Sapphire Preferred and a personal Chase Freedom Unlimited along with the one for business spend.

I did preserve the CL, moving it to Hyatt, but I'd likely need to request a CLD before applying for a new CSR or CSP anyway. Each of the trusts has its own TIN (and doesn't flow onto my personal return) and I'm already around half my easily-documented income in total Chase CLs.

The DC CL I did not bother preserving. I might SUB chase an AA card sometime.

Re: Help me simplify

K-in-Boston — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 01:22:54 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
Since you have BBP and are going to PC to Gold, would it make sense to swap out your Schwab Platinum for Business Platinum, or just add the latter if the coupon book works in your favor already? If you are ultimately using MRs for flights and you mentioned cash fares out of LAX, unless you are doing better by transferring to a partner it's simple to effectively get 2.1666% per MR through Amex Travel for your selected airline (or J/F on any airline) from the lifecycle of redeem-rebate-redeem-rebate. That's been my primary strategy since last year.
It's not out of the question. I had thought the Dell credit was $100 semiannually but the Amex site says it's $200 semiannually so $400 annually...

But at some point that might blur the business/personal use distinction...

And then there's the airline extras credit...

That 2.16 is from those "insider fares" with fewer points needed for flights, right? Combined with the 35% of points back? Even 1.75 or so cpp would be nice...

[I snipped out sections of your reply to address these specific ones.]

The Dell credit was very recently doubled to $200 in both January-June and July-December when the $100 increase in annual fee this coming January was announced. (Along with the $10 monthly wireless credit and the Adobe credit which isn't too easy to use since it doesn't apply to more common things like Creative Cloud subscriptions.)

Amex doesn't seem to really be bothered whatsoever with personal/business distinction.

Yep, if you can just use the $200 airline credit (on Delta, paying the remainder of a ticket partially paid with a Delta gift card is still working for now), the $400 Dell credit and the $120 in wireless credits you're already $25 ahead of the upcoming annual fee. There is a frequent 10% back and/or additional MRs Amex Offer for Dell that stacks as well. Using it via Rakuten on a 10+% day (since I earn MRs) stacked with those is just gravy.

No, Amex Insider Fares sweeten it even better, though! I realized that the usual points and miles sites had been making a mistake when doing the calculation on cpp using MRs in Amex Travel with the rebate - they were only factoring in the initial redemption but forgetting about the residual value of the points you will keep getting back every time you redeem this way. So say you buy a pair of $500 tickets on your chosen airline through Amex Travel and use 100k MRs at $0.01 per point to pay the $1000 total - you then get 35k points back. Since you really only used 65k points to get a $1000 ticket (because a few days later you'll see 35k added back after you used that 100k) you got 1.54 cpp on that redemption, and 1.54 cpp is the value that's been thrown around. The mistake is that no one was factoring in the value of those 35k points when you redeem them at 1 cpp again, or the value of the 12,250 points you get back when you redeem that 35k back, or the value of the 4,288 points you get back when you redeem those 12,250 - you see where this is going? I mean even after the 6th ticket you buy, even though the 35% of the 35% of the 35% etc. is getting smaller, you're still getting a few dollars worth of value from that original 35k rebate.

So while it's fair to say that redeeming through Amex Travel with the 35% rebate is 1.54 cpp that first time, if your redemption strategy is going to continue being airfare through Amex Travel it's easy to effectively net over 2 cpp.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 02:47:00 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:

No, Amex Insider Fares sweeten it even better, though! I realized that the usual points and miles sites had been making a mistake when doing the calculation on cpp using MRs in Amex Travel with the rebate - they were only factoring in the initial redemption but forgetting about the residual value of the points you will keep getting back every time you redeem this way. So say you buy a pair of $500 tickets on your chosen airline through Amex Travel and use 100k MRs at $0.01 per point to pay the $1000 total - you then get 35k points back. Since you really only used 65k points to get a $1000 ticket (because a few days later you'll see 35k added back after you used that 100k) you got 1.54 cpp on that redemption, and 1.54 cpp is the value that's been thrown around. The mistake is that no one was factoring in the value of those 35k points when you redeem them at 1 cpp again, or the value of the 12,250 points you get back when you redeem that 35k back, or the value of the 4,288 points you get back when you redeem those 12,250 - you see where this is going? I mean even after the 6th ticket you buy, even though the 35% of the 35% of the 35% etc. is getting smaller, you're still getting a few dollars worth of value from that original 35k rebate.

So while it's fair to say that redeeming through Amex Travel with the 35% rebate is 1.54 cpp that first time, if your redemption strategy is going to continue being airfare through Amex Travel it's easy to effectively net over 2 cpp.

I can see why the old 50% of points back didn't last very long!

I may do this:

BBP: Personal tax payments long-term

Lowes: Real estate stuff long-term

Business Platinum: Accounting professional expenses long-term plus a large personal estimated tax payment to meet minimum spend in the short term, plus credits towards personal spend. Maybe I'd use it for the occasional big-ticket real estate item and get reimbursed by a check. With the 1.5x that actually works pretty well.

So it would basically come down to finding the right SUB on the Business Platinum at a time when a big expense will be coming up - though most of our bigger transactions are negotiated in terms of check-only repeat business. Sadly the cards come too late for a recent $11k purchase where the merchant would have happily taken a CC. That could have been a SUB qualification right there.

The main issue is to avoid having personal spend on a designated real estate business card. But it's easy to identify a few large trust expenses on a personal (or proprietorship) card and seek reimbursement on them.

Re: Help me simplify

FinStar — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 03:23:01 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:

Barclays:
Arrival: As contactless payments become more and more common, is a backup PIN card really relevant?
Jetblue: Got it for the SUB. I may close this soon.
(Side Note: I got the Jetblue card a year and a few days ago with a two-part SUB. I applied on 11/4/20, was approved on 11/8/20, met the first part of the spend requirement quickly, forgot about the card for a while, then spent the remaining requirement on 11/5/21 and it posted 11/7/21. The second part of the SUB has not posted yet. The language is that I had to spend it within 12 months. Did I have to spend it a few weeks earlier to get it into the 12th billing cycle? Should I call? Give it a few more days or until the end of the cycle to see if it posts? Or am I out of luck? Can I at least get the 5k renewal points and them dump it for an AF refund?)

Not sure this piece has been addressed yet, but mine will be somewhat brief

To be eligible for the 2nd part of the SUB, transactions need to have posted no later than 12 months (or 365 days) from the date you were approved, IIRC. Based on what you shared above, it's likely just a timing situation since the points would usually reflect after your statement generates with those transactions. So, before you make the call, wait for the statement to generate and give it a couple days afterwards to check your TrueBlue account.

You'd have to wait for your anniversary bonus award to post as well. If your AF posts afterwards, keep in mind you have 30 days to cancel the card so the AF can be refunded. So, you'll need to monitor things.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 03:47:11 GMT

@FinStar wrote:
@wasCB14 wrote:

Barclays:
Arrival: As contactless payments become more and more common, is a backup PIN card really relevant?
Jetblue: Got it for the SUB. I may close this soon.
(Side Note: I got the Jetblue card a year and a few days ago with a two-part SUB. I applied on 11/4/20, was approved on 11/8/20, met the first part of the spend requirement quickly, forgot about the card for a while, then spent the remaining requirement on 11/5/21 and it posted 11/7/21. The second part of the SUB has not posted yet. The language is that I had to spend it within 12 months. Did I have to spend it a few weeks earlier to get it into the 12th billing cycle? Should I call? Give it a few more days or until the end of the cycle to see if it posts? Or am I out of luck? Can I at least get the 5k renewal points and them dump it for an AF refund?)
Not sure this piece has been addressed yet, but mine will be somewhat brief

To be eligible for the 2nd part of the SUB, transactions need to have posted no later than 12 months (or 365 days) from the date you were approved, IIRC. Based on what you shared above, it's likely just a timing situation since the points would usually reflect after your statement generates with those transactions. So, before you make the call, wait for the statement to generate and give it a couple days afterwards to check your TrueBlue account.

You'd have to wait for your anniversary bonus award to post as well. If your AF posts afterwards, keep in mind you have 30 days to cancel the card so the AF can be refunded. So, you'll need to monitor things.

Thanks! I may keep it for a second year...not that I really want it, but more as a part of not being too obvious a SUB chaser perhaps? I mostly used the Jetblue miles to fly relatives around without me.

-----

And I did find a recent targeted? email for the 150k Business Platinum. I've been using free 3rd party PDF tools for editing the real estate lease documents so might look into a proper paid version of Adobe if not too expensive. And then there's the wireless credit I could use personally.

I might apply for it tomorrow...

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 05:02:07 GMT

@K-in-Boston

I don't follow your math. I think ~1.54 cpp actually is correct with the 35% back.

If cents is the numerator, and points the denominator, then 1/0.65 does indeed equal about 1.54.

If you start with 100000 points and keep redeeming and getting 35% back, what are you getting?

$1000 + $350 + $122.50 + $42.88 + $15...which is a series that adds up to about $1540.

But by that time, you've used the almost the full 100000 points. 65k is no longer the correct denominator. You're getting 35% back on almost nothing of the original 100000.

That is: $1540/100000 points is equal to $1000/65000 points. Both are 1.54 cpp.

Re: Help me simplify

K-in-Boston — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 05:20:17 GMT

Except you didn't use 100,000 points, you only used 65,000. 😉

For 65,000 points used net, you get $1000 redeemed at 1.54 cpp and another 35,000 points.

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 05:24:15 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Except you didn't use 100,000 points, you only used 65,000. 😉

For 65,000 points used net, you get $1000 redeemed at 1.54 cpp and another 35,000 points.

You're saying that after a 100k redemption, the MR point balance goes from 100k to 70k?

100 - 65 + 35 = 70?

Re: Help me simplify

wasCB14 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 06:20:15 GMT

Here's how I see it: How far does 100k MRs go?

Round 1: $1000 of flights (or a little more with an insider discount). 1 cent per gross point (before 35% back). To my understanding, you can't actually book a $1540 ticket with 100k MRs in your account. ~1.54 is a projection for total value over multiple rounds. It's $1000 only in the first round. $1000 of flight value so far and 35000 points remain.

Then you get $350 in flights in the next round. 1 cpp.

etc.