topic Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing in Credit Cards

Mastercard and visa tier levels can mean nothing

rgd51 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 17:12:25 GMT

I am sure many of you have noticed but I am noticing the mastercard amd visa tier levels (visa signature, world elite, etc) mean nothing as to the type of perks and benefits you get on the card. The citi DC is a world elite yet has no benefits other than basic fraud protection yet the chase freedom unlimited basic visa has all these benefits such as trip cancelation, rental car collision damage waiver, extended warranty, purchase protection, etc. Cap one is also now issuing lots of world elite cards stripped of benefits and the Wells Fargo Active Cash visa signature seems to only be offering cell phone protection (I could be wrong on this so correct me if I'm wrong) as it seems to be stripped of all other benefits. Is there something I am missing or does my analysis seem correct?

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

TSlop — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:46:30 GMT

I think you title should be CAN mean nothing. Just as you mentioned, some companies pick and choose which benefits of those tiers to offer customers, so some cards you'll get all the benefits of the tier, and other times next to none. Basically, sometimes the levels mean something, and sometimes they don't, but they certainly don't always mean nothing.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

rgd51 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:52:11 GMT

You make a point, sometimes those tiers mean something and sometimes they mean nothing. I know the higher the tier the higher the swipe fees but is there a reason why companies like citi (not singling them out, they're just the first that comes to mind) don't give benefits on their world elite DC?

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

TSlop — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:32:49 GMT

@rgd51 wrote:
You make a point, sometimes those tiers mean something and sometimes they mean nothing. I know the higher the tier the higher the swipe fees but is there a reason why companies like citi (not singling them out, they're just the first that comes to mind) don't give benefits on their world elite DC?

It could be a cost thing, with whatever company not wanting to pay to offer certain benefits, but I don't know for sure.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

SUPERSQUID — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 12:39:34 GMT

@rgd51 wrote:
I am sure many of you have noticed but I am noticing the mastercard amd visa tier levels (visa signature, world elite, etc) mean nothing as to the type of perks and benefits you get on the card. The citi DC is a world elite yet has no benefits other than basic fraud protection yet the chase freedom unlimited basic visa has all these benefits such as trip cancelation, rental car collision damage waiver, extended warranty, purchase protection, etc. Cap one is also now issuing lots of world elite cards stripped of benefits and the Wells Fargo Active Cash visa signature seems to only be offering cell phone protection (I could be wrong on this so correct me if I'm wrong) as it seems to be stripped of all other benefits. Is there something I am missing or does my analysis seem correct?

I think it may depend on the card issuer. i just received the cap 1 savor one world elite yesterday. last night i started to read the benefits of that tier and it has way more perks than my QS including cellphone coverage and a plethora of travel related perks including car rental insurance and cb for every 5 rides via lyft. i only started reading last night.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 14:43:21 GMT

Benefits that are good for the customer are generally expensive for the provider. Lenders get a bigger cut of the total transaction fees than the payment networks do, so they're the ones with the funds to provide better benefits...especially if they're getting an annual fee.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:34:30 GMT

If its just an interchange fee booster then why dont all issuers just offer Elite Visa and World Elite Mastercards strip the bennies and call it a day? Definately a case by case situation. Nothing comes for free. Those perks from the issuers that do offer them don't pay for themselves you know.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

lakerfan2011 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 16:57:14 GMT

the best benefits i think with the world elite and the signature and infinite is the primary rental car insurance had to use it once and its way more that its worth in gold never had to put anything on my personal insurance

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

abdi12 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:25:58 GMT

@SUPERSQUID wrote:
@rgd51 wrote:
I am sure many of you have noticed but I am noticing the mastercard amd visa tier levels (visa signature, world elite, etc) mean nothing as to the type of perks and benefits you get on the card. The citi DC is a world elite yet has no benefits other than basic fraud protection yet the chase freedom unlimited basic visa has all these benefits such as trip cancelation, rental car collision damage waiver, extended warranty, purchase protection, etc. Cap one is also now issuing lots of world elite cards stripped of benefits and the Wells Fargo Active Cash visa signature seems to only be offering cell phone protection (I could be wrong on this so correct me if I'm wrong) as it seems to be stripped of all other benefits. Is there something I am missing or does my analysis seem correct?
I think it may depend on the card issuer. i just received the cap 1 savor one world elite yesterday. last night i started to read the benefits of that tier and it has way more perks than my QS including cellphone coverage and a plethora of travel related perks including car rental insurance and cb for every 5 rides via lyft. i only started reading last night.

Where did you read that? AFAIK, Capital One stripped the cellphone benefits on the Mastercard. Here is a recent great discussion on the matter: https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Savor-One-dropping-Cell-Phone-Protection/m-p/6362887

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

TSlop — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:38:56 GMT

@lakerfan2011 wrote:
the best benefits i think with the world elite and the signature and infinite is the primary rental car insurance had to use it once and its way more that its worth in gold never had to put anything on my personal insurance

This is one of the reasons I value the CSP. Primary rental car insurance is amazing.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

MrDisco99 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:57:30 GMT

@TSlop wrote:
I think you title should be CAN mean nothing. Just as you mentioned, some companies pick and choose which benefits of those tiers to offer customers, so some cards you'll get all the benefits of the tier, and other times next to none. Basically, sometimes the levels mean something, and sometimes they don't, but they certainly don't always mean nothing.

If the branding doesn't mean the same thing everywhere, then it doesn't mean anything anywhere. If benefits are determined solely by what the issuer chooses to include, the association tier level is meaningless.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels can mean nothing

Aim_High — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 20:58:52 GMT

@rgd51 wrote:
... mastercard and visa tier levels (visa signature, world elite, etc) mean nothing as to the type of perks and benefits you get on the card. ... Is there something I am missing or does my analysis seem correct?

Nope, you're not missing anything although I agree that the tier levels **MAY** mean nothing. Each financial institution decides which benefits they offer. This is true even at the Visa Infinite level, although lenders tend to keep more intact with that tier.

Why do they do it? Higher swipe fees and because they can get away with it. Many consumers might not notice what they aren't getting yet they feel some special status from carrying a "world elite" or "signature" card. It's a win-win for the lenders.

Personally, I think Visa/Mastercard should have some standardization about these things. IMO, they are the ones left looking contradictory and foolish when the dust settles. Their titles don't mean anything when it comes down to it.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels can mean nothing

FinStar — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 21:11:58 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
Personally, I think Visa/Mastercard should have some standardization about these things. IMO, they are the ones left looking contradictory and foolish when the dust settles. Their titles don't mean anything when it comes down to it.

But, do they really? I mean, the average consumer does not flinch as to what type of tier is stamped on their card. Think how many millions of these cards are in people's hands.

So, no, the financial institution is really unimpacted at the end of the day regardless how many tiers have diluted (or perks evaporated) over the years. For those who follow things closely such as these boards, TPG, FT, Reddit, etc., maybe -- as most people here know what those tiers really provide; but for institutions, they've cornered the market wisely by playing the psychological effect on tier/status perception vs benefits. Meaning, people get googly-eyed when a VS or WEMC lands on their lap whether any benefits exist or not, because it's a VS/VI or WMC/WEMC.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels can mean nothing

Loquat — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:25:12 GMT

If Credit One bank issued the most generic, basic, no frills card, BUT made it metal AND as heavy as the old Ritz Carlton card, you'd have proof how little people care about WEMC/VS/VI. I have cards with each of these designations and the first thing I think of when something break or I need protection is if I paid for it with my Amex card. I don't even think about any of the other cards or the benefits associated with them.

The only useful benefit from Visa Infinite was the $100 air discount on the Ritz card but that went away some time ago.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels can mean nothing

wasCB14 — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 22:41:24 GMT

@Loquat wrote:
If Credit One bank issued the most generic, basic, no frills card, BUT made it metal AND as heavy as the old Ritz Carlton card, you'd have proof how little people care about WEMC/VS/VI. I have cards with each of these designations and the first thing I think of when something break or I need protection is if I paid for it with my Amex card. I don't even think about any of the other cards or the benefits associated with them.

The only useful benefit from Visa Infinite was the $100 air discount on the Ritz card but that went away some time ago.

I basically came to the same conclusion. Filing a charge dispute with Citi was such a hassle that it left me uneasy about using the card anywhere other than Costco. I stick with Amex as much as possible and get reasonable protections in most eventualities.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Nov 2021 23:10:31 GMT

@MrDisco99 wrote:
If the branding doesn't mean the same thing everywhere, then it doesn't mean anything anywhere. If benefits are determined solely by what the issuer chooses to include, the association tier level is meaningless.

I agree. Take the example given in this thread of primary rental insurance. That is a benefit of the particular issuer (e.g. Chase) nothing to do with the fact that it is VS/VI as primary is NOT a feature of Visa Sig, so it's not even a case of the issuer picking and choosing.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 00:25:10 GMT

FYI, for DP's just confirmed the Capital One Walmart Rewards WEMC retains the full compliment of benefits.

Purchase Assurance

Price Protection

Extended Warranty

Cellular Wireless Protection

Concierge Services

Mastercard ID Theft Protection

Identity Fraud Expense Reimbursement

Travel Assistance Services

MasterRental Coverage

Worldwide Automatic Travel Accident, Baggage Delay & Trip Cancellation/Interruption Insurance

Lost or Damaged Luggage

+ Access to Capital One's Travel Portal

Not too shabby IMHO.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

RehabbingANDBlabbing — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 09:42:35 GMT

Personally, I feel like the stamps don't matter. I think Visa Infinite still means something as most of them offer most benefits you want, but they are very expensive or exclusive (or both).

To me, certain cards are much more intriguing because they are unique or difficult to obtain. I look at the U.S. Bank Altitude Reserve a lot differently than the Capital One Venture X, for example. Cap1 is probably giving that card to a lot more people. But you really have to have your house in order to get the Altitude Reserve.

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

practical1 — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 21:28:17 GMT

Once upon a time, these tiers really did mean something. There was a period, I remember distinctly, that VISA Signature specifically connoted a Flexible Spending Limit card and was pretty hard to obtain. There were also useful benefits, including travel insurances and purchase protectection, extended waranties, cell phone protection, etc. (which seem to have pretty much gone by the wayside.) Also, these cards used to require a minimum 5K base CL, which was a pretty high limit, way back when....

Things have devolved pretty quickly. Bear in mind that VISA and MasterCard, despite being public companies in their own right, are beholden to the whims and fancies of their members -- with switching costs between networks much lower than in the past and shifting alliances (witness Amazon's recent moves, COSTCO's swtich from AMEX to VISA, ariline loyalty programs and card issuer relationships always seemingly in motion), stabilizing card level branding and and recognizing the value of these tiers seems not to be much of a priority -- however we cognoscenti of the card may see things....

Now, as so many posters did note, most of the distinctions seem to be at the discretion of the issurers, with only the VISA Infinite retaining (at least for while), a sliver of distinctive benefits -- which are rapidly being eroded as well.

Perhaps others have noticed that accompanying higher fees for exclusive cards (as defined by issuer marketing and hype) typically offer an increasing suite of near useless "benefits," which appear to serve the sole purpose of papering and justifying the supposed value and exclusivity of these cards? How many of us would really seek out some limited luxury hotel chain (that we've probably never heard of, in locations that we'd most likely never visit), just to get a room upgrade or a free breakfast? How about a small monthly discount to some streaming media service that we've lived without and don't want? Or maybe, a very tiny discount at an expensive store, which might be enough to cover the sales tax on an expensive gift, if we buy one each month of the year? Or a couple of bucks off a health club membership, titrated on a monthly basis -- when any city dweller in a high-end apartment probably already has a better gym in their own building, included in their rent? Better yet, $200 towards airline "incidentals" -- as a frequent flyer program member, who pays these fees anyhow?

All this justifies raising the annual fees? Really? Maybe I'm just getting too old and jaded... or I still remember how to do basic math.

Apologies for the grumpiness. Trying to shed some of the excess COVID avoirdupois....

Re: Mastercard and visa tier levels mean nothing

FinStar — Sun, 21 Nov 2021 21:12:25 GMT

@practical1 wrote:
however we cognoscenti of the card may see things....

Now, as so many posters did note, most of the distinctions seem to be at the discretion of the issurers, with only the VISA Infinity retaining (at least for while), a sliver of distinctive benefits -- which are rapidly being eroded as well.

VISA Infinite.