topic Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card in Credit Cards

Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

socalchef00 — Fri, 07 Jan 2022 23:48:15 GMT

What is everyone's thought on this card?

I've been looking at getting an Amex card.

When we do travel, we stay here.

Don't mind the 3x restuarant/flight's and 2x everywhere else, either.

Any downfalls I should know about? What should I look for to quailfy for it?

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

Aim_High — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 01:15:29 GMT

I have the Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless but I also just added the AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant. I think the AMEX is the best card for Marriott loyalists. Yes, it's a higher AF but the credits are easily attained and it offers a lot more "bang for the buck."

$450 AF versus $95 AF for Chase Bonvoy Boundless

- automatic $300 in annual credits for Marriott spend (No spend credits on Chase)

- Free annual night at 50K points (vs 35K points for Chase card)

- TSA Global Entry Credit ($100/4 years = $25 per year) (Not available on Chase.)

- $100 Marriott property credit (not available on Chase.)

= basically no annual fee at all.

For example, a quick check shows that 50K Bonvoy points will buy you a night at the Westin New York Grand Central which is regularly $318 per night for the night I checked. That easily reimburses any remaining AF if you want to stay at least one night a year at a higher-end Marriott property. (You could use it for a much lower point hotel stay also but get less value since you forfeit any points not claimed in one night.)

Automatic GOLD status instead of automatic SILVER status with Chase card.

15 elite night credits with either card

Priority Pass Select airport lounge membership for both primary AND all (AU) cardholders with privileges for up to two guests. And there is no fee for up to four additional cards.

AMEX Travel benefits including the Global Assist hotline, Baggage Insurance, Trip Cancellation Insurance, Trip Delay Insurance, Secondary Rental Car CDW

AMEX Shopping benefits including Return Protection, Purchase Protection, Extended Warranty

Both (Chase and AMEX) cards offer no FTF

Both (Chase and AMEX) cards give you "offers" on top of earnings bonus; some like AMEX ones better but it depends on your spending.

As a side benefit, the Bonvoy Brilliant is also a slick metal card that weighs 15 grams, the same as an AMEX Gold.

Overall, I think the value delivered on the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant is excellent! By the way, if you obtain the Chase Bonvoy Boundless, they are still allowing a product change to their old Ritz Carlton card. The Ritz Carlton card is very similar to the AMEX except it's a Visa Infinite versus an AMEX network, has Visa Infinite benefits including primary CDW, and the $300 credits are applied to airline fees, not in-hotel spending. But that has to be a product change with a minimum $10K CL since it's a Visa Infinite.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

practical1 — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 04:06:51 GMT

@Aim_High

You nailed it Buddy! Excellent review of one of the best travel cards available.

Clearly, the best choice for Marriott enthusiasts. No question, if you travel and take advantage of any of their omnipresent properties even a couple of times annually, the card will pay for itself and reap dividends. Really, no down side to this card that I can think of to this (unless you never venture out....).

One more recent benefit (as of a week ago, or so): you can request additional cards for no annual fee (I think up to 4). So, family members who travel can presumably leverage additional rewards for your Bonvoy account.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

wasCB14 — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 04:51:21 GMT

I used to have it. I started with the SPG card and got a targeted offer to upgrade for 100k points IIRC.

It's a good value if you stay at Marriott properties at least 2 or 3 nights of the year.

I don't stay at Marriotts very often. Much of my travel has me visiting relatives or staying in fairly remote areas without major chains. On top of that I have the odd IHG or Hyatt stay. But I've done pretty well playing upgrade/downgrade and retention games, along with getting an occasional targeted ongoing spend bonus. The 2021 dining credits were nice.

@practical1 wrote:
@Aim_High
You nailed it Buddy! Excellent review of one of the best travel cards available.

Clearly, the best choice for Marriott enthusiasts. No question, if you travel and take advantage of any of their omnipresent properties even a couple of times annually, the card will pay for itself and reap dividends. Really, no down side to this card that I can think of to this (unless you never venture out....).

One more recent benefit (as of a week ago, or so): you can request additional cards for no annual fee (I think up to 4). So, family members who travel can presumably leverage additional rewards for your Bonvoy account.

I once tried to use my Brilliant card to book a revenue hotel stay for a relative to make use of the $300 credit before it expired. I booked it through the Marriott phone number on the back of my card, making it clear that I wouldn't be staying there and that the relative would not have my card with her. The Marriott Gold CS rep said it was all settled, but when she arrived, the front desk people refused to accept my card information, and she had to use her own. I called the next day, emailed them some CC authorization forms, and eventually they switched the bill to my card and released it from hers. But it was a PITA and nudged me to downgrade. An ACM would be easier, though it requires some advance planning.

I recently used the two certificates that were about to expire in June 2022. A little bit of a waste perhaps. 35k and 50k certificates at a 20k property. That plus 20k points got three rooms for my group. But that Fairfield was far and away the nicest hotel where we were staying (rural hiking), and the only other Marriott I had looked at lately was 60k for the night in question (usually 50k). I didn't want to risk the certificates expiring.

My card anniversary is in a month or two. If I get a targeted offer to upgrade again before then I might take it, as I'd be getting a 50k cert at renewal (instead of 35k) along with some points.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

practical1 — Sat, 08 Jan 2022 16:01:16 GMT

@wasCB14

Sorry to hear about your (PIA) issues -- We've all been there, unfortunately, in these kinds of travel situations, which is precisely why I see an advantage to just being able to add additional cards on my account to close family members, avoiding this very problem in the future (I hope) while still using the benefits available.

Also concur that their certificates are not the easiest to take full advantage of, as the best choice of hotel in a given situation is often either above the cert. value or significantly below it (as you noted). Since I travel to major cities like Boston and Chicago, etc. at least once or twice a year for short stays, I find given so many options of Marriott properties available in such large markets, I can always seem to find a decent match. If that is not your typical travel profile, it would be a bit more difficult to take best advantage of this particular benefit, for certain.

Certainly, this weighs into any evaluation of the Bonvoy Brilliant card -- but I'd suggest its a relatively minor one, for most folks. I look at the certs. as just a "cherry" on top of the sundae; an added sweetener, but not the main draw, anyway.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

AMJ50 — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 06:29:53 GMT

I was just approved for this card. I already have the Delta Gold and Hilton no AF. I really prefer Marriott and Sheraton properties, Hiltons are average, in my opinion. I was finally preapproved for a card and we shall see how things turn out. I already stay at allot of hotels and plan to travel more in the future.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

NRB525 — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 13:21:31 GMT

@socalchef00 wrote:
What is everyone's thought on this card?

I've been looking at getting an Amex card.
When we do travel, we stay here.
Don't mind the 3x restuarant/flight's and 2x everywhere else, either.

Any downfalls I should know about? What should I look for to quailfy for it?

The $300 Marriott credit is perhaps the easiest AMEX credit, since it applies to any room charges. The upgrade to Gold status may help you out in certain perks. The SUB Marriott points bonus is nice as well.

My experience with the 50k certificates is... challenged. With the change to dynamic points on Marriott stays, often the higher end properties will move above 50k when you want to go in high season. Going to a ski resort in June, while it would fit in the 50k certificate, isn't my idea of a ski vacation.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

practical1 — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 15:44:12 GMT

@AMJ50

Congrats! Hope you have a good experience with this card and find it worthwhile.

The training at some properties as to benefits and priviledges which accrue to Marriot Bonvoy Gold and above status members remain, unfortunately, somewhat spotty -- COVID staffing issues and the myriad program changes make this problematic. It's always best to apply common sense to these trying times; know exactly what benefits you're entitled to receive before you arrive and be firm, but polite, about expectations should you not receive them onsite. It's generally not been a problem for me and hopefully, won't be for you. If anything, most Marriott properties tend to be over-accomodating (with rare exceptions).

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

Aim_High — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 20:28:18 GMT

@NRB525 wrote: ... The $300 Marriott credit is perhaps the easiest AMEX credit, since it applies to any room charges ...

This is one thing I love about the Marriott card. AMEX should take a lesson from Chase and from the success of cards like the AMEX Marriott. I've always been put-off by the complex ways that AMEX bundles their various credits against their high annual fees, obviously hoping for "breakage." One reason I love my Chase Sapphire Reserve is that 'easy' $300 travel credit that is automatically applied. The Marriott credit is the same way. I've already reclaimed some of my annual fee and it was automatic.

Meanwhile, I have serious doubts on whether I want to keep my Gold card, in part due to having to reclaim monthly credits on GrubHub or UBER/Eats to zero out most of the fee. It's a hassle. And it's why I would likely never be able (or want to try) to make a Platinum card work with all it's complicated credits. It diminishes the value of MRs further, and so far in my comparisons, I'm probably better off with Chase URs if I'm not transferring to airline partners for premium international cabins. Still playing with this though, which is why I got the Gold card to begin with. *Note: I still have a 100K MR + $150 statement credit offer to upgrade Gold to Platinum and I'm considering it for the SUB, and then downgrading after the year. But long-term, it doesn't fit me.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

wasCB14 — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 20:50:38 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@NRB525 wrote: ... The $300 Marriott credit is perhaps the easiest AMEX credit, since it applies to any room charges ...
This is one thing I love about the Marriott card. AMEX should take a lesson from Chase and from the success of cards like the AMEX Marriott. I've always been put-off by the complex ways that AMEX bundles their various credits against their high annual fees, obviously hoping for "breakage." One reason I love my Chase Sapphire Reserve is that 'easy' $300 travel credit that is automatically applied. The Marriott credit is the same way. I've already reclaimed some of my annual fee and it was automatic.

Meanwhile, I have serious doubts on whether I want to keep my Gold card, in part due to having to reclaim monthly credits on GrubHub or UBER/Eats to zero out most of the fee. It's a hassle. And it's why I would likely never be able (or want to try) to make a Platinum card work with all it's complicated credits. It diminishes the value of MRs further, and so far in my comparisons, I'm probably better off with Chase URs if I'm not transferring to airline partners for premium international cabins. Still playing with this though, which is why I got the Gold card to begin with. *Note: I still have a 100K MR + $150 statement credit offer to upgrade Gold to Platinum and I'm considering it for the SUB, and then downgrading after the year. But long-term, it doesn't fit me.

You've mentioned wanting a BBP. Is that mainly as a way to preserve MRs if you're opening and closing charge cards? Or are you looking for business cards in general?

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

Aim_High — Sun, 09 Jan 2022 22:47:10 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote: You've mentioned wanting a BBP. Is that mainly as a way to preserve MRs if you're opening and closing charge cards? Or are you looking for business cards in general?

@Aim_High wrote: Meanwhile, I have serious doubts on whether I want to keep my Gold card ... I'm probably better off with Chase URs if I'm not transferring to airline partners for premium international cabins. Still playing with this though, which is why I got the Goldcard to begin with.

No, I'm not looking for business cards in general @wasCB14. I mentioned the BBP as a good card for me, regardless of which way I go with AMEX and MRs. If I keep the Gold after all, the BBP is an awesome pairing with it for everyday earnings - 4x grocery/dining and 2x everywhere else. If I don't keep the Gold, I need a place to park my earned MRs. If I close the Gold, I probably wouldn't downgrade to Green either. Either the BBP or the Everyday card would be the logical ones for me. The BBP just seems a better deal. The thing I like about the BBP is that I've found more-and-more that I don't prefer to mess with category restrictions or spending caps, just a good flat-rate earning card regardless of where it's used and when. The $50K annual spending cap is high enough that I would probably never need to be concerned with it.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

panda11 — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:30:15 GMT

You can you the $300.00 hotel credit to pay for your Marriott Vacation Timeshare Fees.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

notmyrealname23 — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 09:16:20 GMT

I have this card because there was a nice SUB at the time I got it in 2020 (100k SUB/5k spend, 25k on renewal first year, Platinum status in 2021, and I managed to squeak into Platinum for 2022 because of their 13 extra nights for Gold in 2021 as a result of holding the card + double night credits).

I actually think it's a terrible card for general spend and dining/airfare compared to most AMEX cards unless they're running promos on it, which they were in 2021:

- $20 monthly dining credit

- spend $7500 get 7500 points

- get 7x bonus on PayPal in late 2021

Those promos were pretty sweet (the 7500 for $7500 one basically turned the card back into the old SPG card, since 3 MR used to be 1 SPG).

I assign a value of .7 cpp to Marriott points, so 2x is 1.4 cpp. The promos in 2021 that added points made it closer to a 3-3.5x card for me (so over 2 cpp), but now, with no promos? Sock drawer except if I am paying a Marriott hotel bill. For dining... 3x AMEX on a Green or 4x on a Gold (or 7x on a Hilton Aspire) seems clearly better. For airfare, 3x Green/Gold, 5x Platinum or 7x Hilton Aspire also seems better. Or frankly a 2% no AF cashback card. Or even a 1.5% cashback card. It seems to me you have to have a VERY high valuation of Marriott points (1+ cpp) to argue it's a good card for general spend... and since AMEX not only transfers 1-1 but also often has transfer bonuses to Marriott, I find it hard to see how 3x Marriott for dining or airfare > 3/4/5x AMEX MR.

Oh yeah, in March Marriott is ditching award charts. Get ready for a giant sucking sound on the value of Marriott points... when Delta, Hilton and United did this for their award flights it started devaluing the program.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

jcooks — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:42:38 GMT

@socalchef00 wrote:
What is everyone's thought on this card?

I've been looking at getting an Amex card.
When we do travel, we stay here.
Don't mind the 3x restuarant/flight's and 2x everywhere else, either.

Any downfalls I should know about? What should I look for to quailfy for it?

It's definitely a nice card to get if you prefer Marriott properties. You can check the Amex prequal site to see if you are pre-qualified. If you're pre-qualified, I would say go for it.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

Aim_High — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:15:18 GMT

@notmyrealname23 wrote:
... I actually think it's a terrible card for general spend and dining/airfare compared to most AMEX cards unless they're running promos on it

I assign a value of .7 cpp to Marriott points, so 2x is 1.4 cpp. ... Sock drawer except if I am paying a Marriott hotel bill. For dining... 3x AMEX on a Green or 4x on a Gold (or 7x on a Hilton Aspire) seems clearly better. For airfare, 3x Green/Gold, 5x Platinum or 7x Hilton Aspire also seems better. Or frankly a 2% no AF cashback card. Or even a 1.5% cashback card. It seems to me you have to have a VERY high valuation of Marriott points (1+ cpp) to argue it's a good card for general spend... and since AMEX not only transfers 1-1 but also often has transfer bonuses to Marriott, I find it hard to see how 3x Marriott for dining or airfare > 3/4/5x AMEX MR.

I see your perspective, @notmyrealname23, but I still stand by my accolades for the card, at least as it stands now unless AMEX ruins it on a make-over. For me, I'm seriously thinking that this card is a much better long-term AMEX card than one of their charge cards. When I came to My Fico, I questioned the popularity of AMEX cards in general and struggled to understand their popularity among so many people beyond that they have a deep history in charge and credit cards. I didn't see anything in the cash-back area that was better than other options and I was unfamiliar with Member Rewards points-oriented cards. (I've had multiple AMEX cards in the past but when I had a Green card back in the 1980's, there were not yet any SUBs or MRs. The last AMEX cash-back card I had was the Costco True Earnings card before it was transferred to Citi.)

I decided to give the Gold card a test drive since it seemed to best fit my purposes. I liked the practical 4x MR for everyday dining and groceries and the possibility of getting credits back against most of the $250 AF. I knew that MR point redemption could vary widely but I wanted to see for myself since I knew they could be worth 2% or more. I mainly want to compare it against the Chase Sapphire Reserve. I'm not familar with using the transfer partners, even though I knew that is the most lucrative redemption option. I also know I may be more likely to book flights directly through one or the other travel portal. I recently looked at a round-trip coach fare to London Heathrow for specific dates on specific flights and compared the quoted cash prices, number of points, and amount of spending required to earn those points between either the CSR or the Gold card. I expected a disparity but I was truly shocked; it wasn't even close. The cash price on the AMEX site was $150 higher to start with. The same flight would cost me 49,525 URs but 89,297 MRs. The spending on the Gold would be significantly higher to earn those points and the earning rate would be only 1% per point, versus the 1.5% per point I could earn on the CSR. For some, a Gold card's 4x MRs can be worth 8%+ for dining if tranferred to parnters. In my example, they'd be worth only 4% versus the 4.5% I could get for similar redemption option on the CSR. Even if you paired the Gold with a BBP earning 2 MRs on everyday spend, I doubt it woud catch the pairing of a CSR + CFU for the redemption option I gave.

Why did I go on a tangent about the Gold card? Well, while you have a valid point that the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant is subpar for rewards return compared to cash-back cards, that 1.4% example that you gave actually beats the base 1MR (+/-1%) earn rate on an AMEX charge card for redemptions other than transfer to partners. Plus, one of my pet peeves with the credits on the charge cards is that they may be difficult to redeem enough of them to fully offset the AF. That's a further drain on the rewards return. None of their credits are things I am going to naturally use without forethought and certainly not on a regular cycle, such as monthly.

On the other hand, the Bonvoy Brilliant's credits very easily and completely offset the AF without having to use some silly thing like a monthly GrubHub or Cheesecake Factory restaurant credit. Before any other credits, the $300 Marriott spend at any point in the year and the annual free night quickly and easily reimburse the full value of the fee. The 1.4% - 1.6% return (at 0.7 - 0.8 cpp) could easily beat a charge card's 1% if the points aren't transferred, and it also beats even the cash-out for MR's on the Schwab Platinum (1.25 cpp).

I also got the Gold card because, in part, adding an AU card for DW on the CSR is another $75 by itself, probably because it includes Priority Pass privileges for the cardholder among other things. There was no charge for AU on Gold and it gave her a premium card. Plus, there's no charge for AU on up to four cards with the Bonvoy Brilliant either, and it also includes that Priority Pass membership!

I appreciate the premium shopping protections that you find on both the CSR and AMEX cards. (Extended Warranty; Return Protection; Purchase Protection.) The Marriott card includes those as well, which you wouldn't find on a basic cash-back card, so there are reasons where it could be valuable in other ways than a strictly-rewards aspect. And like other AMEX cards, the Bonvoy gives you access to AMEX OFFERS which could enhance the value of the card.

I agree that normally hotel cards are best used in that hotel and not as a daily-driver unless someone values simplicity over optimization of rewards. And they are often subpar on things like dining out or flights so I probably wouldn't use them for that. But IMO, the Marriott card may be one of the more practical and valuable of AMEX's cards for some other consumers, especially for those of us who question the ability to achieve higher MR point redemptions.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

notmyrealname23 — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:56:41 GMT

@Aim_High: I didn't actually say it was a bad card. I said it was a bad card for general spend (as well as other AMEX cards being better for airfare/dining). I think it's a good card for Marriott loyalists. I think after the year 1 SUB if you can make use of the $300 + room night and get > $450 of value off of it (not extraordinarily hard), it's a potential keeper. If AMEX runs promos on the card for spend, it becomes a better card (I actually used it in 2021 for general spend for just that reason, it was legitimately better than a 2% cashback card during 2021 because of stackable promos and "free" spending.)

If you'd asked me about whether AMEX cards in general are great cards for general spend (which I didn't really address), I would say: no, I think a card with a multiplier on base spend is better, or a 2%+ cashback no AF card. The Citi DC in conjunction with a Premier, or an AMEX BBP would be examples, or a C1 Venture/VentureX, or a CFU with a CSR.

I assign a value of 1.7 cpp for MR to reflect value in transferring to various AMEX partners... but that's below a 2% no annual fee card if you only get 1x, which is why I say that I don't find either the Brilliant or the charge cards to be great for unbonused spend. I find that AMEX cards have very wide category spend that I can use to rack up 3x/4x multipliers, which I turn into expensive premium cabin airline award redemptions... but absent the BBP or the Everyday/Everyday Preferred, or chasing a SUB or AMEX offer, I would (and do) use a different card for uncategorized spend.

Does that clarify where I stand?

Also, a side note on Membership Rewards vs. Marriott Rewards and assigning a cpp value...

Marriott points can be transferred to a bunch of airlines at a ratio of 60k:25k. (United's a touch better.) Much like how AMEX MR can be transferred to many of those same airlines at 1:1.

.7 cpp * 60 / 25 = 1.68 cpp

Pretty close to a 1.7 cpp valuation of MR. Cheers.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

Aim_High — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 21:33:34 GMT

@notmyrealname23 wrote:
@Aim_High: I didn't actually say it was a bad card. I said it was a bad card for general spend (as well as other AMEX cards being better for airfare/dining). If you'd asked me about whether AMEX cards in general are great cards for general spend (which I didn't really address), I would say: no ...

Thanks for the clarifications, @notmyrealname23. I did see the general spend comment but I just interpreted your overall review as seeming to not value the card as a whole. I definitely agree that using either of them for general spend might be a poor choice. I saw your focus on the absence of special incentives and comparing the earn rate to MR charge cards, and that just opened the door to me for a comparison. I just wanted to point out that, depending on your ability to leverage MRs for higher redemption value or the ability (or desire) to chase after AMEX AF credits, the Marriott card delivers a lot for the money! - cheers! Aim_High

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

boosnark — Fri, 14 Jan 2022 22:37:06 GMT

I've been considering this card, and debating whether to get rid of my Ritz Carlton card, for which I am grandfathered to the original $395 annual fee and unlimited Priority Pass accompanying guests. There is also the 50K yearly stay voucher, which complements the 35K voucher I get from the Amex Bonvoy (the original SPG replacement). So at the moment it doesn't feel worthwhile product switching to either the Bonvoy Brilliant or Marriott Boundless.

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

TheBoondocks — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 13:55:28 GMT

Hey guys, I've been thinking about getting this card cause I hear a lot of people like the marriott, I finally stayed at the marriott and it wasn't bad. I'm over 5/24 and already have 6 cards with chase not sure if they would extend more but wanted to know if I got the brilliant card but never got the spg to begin with. Would I be eligible for the amex marriott.bonvoy card (spg)? Thanks

Re: Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant™ American Express® Card

cashorcharge — Sat, 15 Jan 2022 16:56:09 GMT

@boosnark wrote:
I've been considering this card, and debating whether to get rid of my Ritz Carlton card, for which I am grandfathered to the original $395 annual fee and unlimited Priority Pass accompanying guests. There is also the 50K yearly stay voucher, which complements the 35K voucher I get from the Amex Bonvoy (the original SPG replacement). So at the moment it doesn't feel worthwhile product switching to either the Bonvoy Brilliant or Marriott Boundless.

I would not give up your grandfathered in Ritz Carlton Card @boosnark

The AMEX Bonvoy would be complimentary should your spend warrant both. If not, keep the RC