topic Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio in Credit Cards

AMEX Credit Card portfolio

increasingmyfico — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 23:49:06 GMT

I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

AverageJoesCredit — Sun, 23 Jan 2022 23:55:25 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

If Chase works better for your needs you should go with Chase. To get another Amex just to make a filler card that might not work for you doesnt make sense.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

wasCB14 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 01:20:15 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

If you reach the 30 transactions with EDP, you get 1.5x on most spend and 4.5x at supermarkets.

That said, once I finish my re-upgrade spend on EDP I'm going to be SDing it until it's time to re-downgrade. BCP is already there from a Nov/Dec upgrade.

One underrated thing about ED/EDP and BCE/BCP is you can play upgrade/downgrade games and get bonuses over and over without creating any new accounts.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

increasingmyfico — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 01:23:29 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.
If you reach the 30 transactions with EDP, you get 1.5x on most spend and 4.5x at supermarkets.

That said, once I finish my re-upgrade spend on EDP I'm going to be SDing it until it's time to re-downgrade. BCP is already there from a Nov/Dec upgrade.

One underrated thing about ED/EDP and BCE/BCP is you can play upgrade/downgrade games and get bonuses over and over without creating any new accounts.

I actually overlooked that. 30 is a lot but that might be a good play. A consumer version of the BBP would also be good. Thanks for the tip.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

TheBoondocks — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 02:05:31 GMT

Yeah I find it that Chase cards are more attractive when it comes to the SUB and multipliers, I was looking at the marriott card and it's so much better than the amex marriott biz card, I often times see chase gives more spending offers than amex. I feel like amex is just to save on stuff, sometimes they give targeted offers but not all the time. I heard chase is really good when it comes to biz too and amex not so much, but I would choose chase and cap1 over amex I feel like.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

Aim_High — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 04:21:51 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

I have a few suggestions, @increasingmyfico. One thing I notice about your profile is that you have the BCP and the Gold card. An experienced AMEX forum member once advised me that with AMEX, it's best to stick with either cash back or MRs instead of dividing spend between both. The BCP is earning 6% on groceries but the Gold's 4x MRs can be worth 8% or more if you can redeem for 2 ccp with a higher $25K cap.

The Everyday Preferred is the MR-point equivalent to the Blue Cash Preferred. It earns 3x MRs on $6K groceries similar to the BCP's 6% cash on $6K groceries. The EDP's 3x MRs are worth 6% if you can redeem for 2 ccp. @wasCB14 made a great point also about the bonus on this card with frequent swipes.

A great uncategorized spend card for MR earning is the Blue Business Plus which earns 2x MRs on up to $50K annually. I believe I've read that AMEX isn't picky about personal charges on their business cards.

Your statement that 1 MR as a base is terrible was telling. It is ... if you are redeeming for cash, gift cards, or through the AMEX travel portal for 1 ccp or less. If you aren't getting 1.5 or higher cpp earning with AMEX, you might be better off with Chase URs, the US Bank Altitude Reserve, or cash back at 2% or higher.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

notmyrealname23 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:12:30 GMT

There is 0% chance AMEX is going to do a 6x MR card for groceries/streaming, 3x gas/transit with an AF of $95, even with groceries capped. They would be cutting their own throats on the Gold and EDP card.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

wasCB14 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:15:52 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.
I have a few suggestions, @increasingmyfico. One thing I notice about your profile is that you have the BCP and the Gold card. An experienced AMEX forum member once advised me that with AMEX, it's best to stick with either cash back or MRs instead of dividing spend between both. The BCP is earning 6% on groceries but the Gold's 4x MRs can be worth 8% or more if you can redeem for 2 ccp with a higher $25K cap.

The Everyday Preferred is the MR-point equivalent to the Blue Cash Preferred. It earns 3x MRs on $6K groceries similar to the BCP's 6% cash on $6K groceries. The EDP's 3x MRs are worth 6% if you can redeem for 2 ccp. @wasCB14 made a great point also about the bonus on this card with frequent swipes.

A great uncategorized spend card for MR earning is the Blue Business Plus which earns 2x MRs on up to $50K annually. I believe I've read that AMEX isn't picky about personal charges on their business cards.

Your statement that 1 MR as a base is terrible was telling. It is ... if you are redeeming for cash, gift cards, or through the AMEX travel portal for 1 ccp or less. If you aren't getting 1.5 or higher cpp earning with AMEX, you might be better off with Chase URs, the US Bank Altitude Reserve, or cash back at 2% or higher.

True, Amex has not objected to my putting personal spend on BBP.

Still, for the sake of my own recordkeeping, I tend to only use BBP for a small number of transactions (albeit sometimes large in dollar value). And I do use it for my fairly modest accounting work-related expenses.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

notmyrealname23 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:22:27 GMT

Yeah, I don't really have a plausible excuse for a business, and my biggest category of non-bonuses spend is awkward to use with an AMEX without paying fees that nuke the benefit of 2x MR, so the BBP is a no sale for me (and I'm transitioning to a nonfecta of VentureX, SavorOne and AMEX Green).

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

NRB525 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 05:53:27 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

Well, AMEX Gold does have grocery year round, so if your grocery store codes correctly, that's better than Chase, where you only get grocery one quarter. If you get the EDP, then use that for all non-restaurant, non-grocery, non-airline charges. The AF on the EDP takes out much of the added value from the potential 1.5 points. Typically when overall spend categories are measured, it's often very close, among the points families, about how many points one can earn.

If you want to switch to Chase, that's going to take a few well-planned apps to shift over there, but it may make you happier longer term?

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

wasCB14 — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:17:36 GMT

@TheBoondocks wrote:
Yeah I find it that Chase cards are more attractive when it comes to the SUB and multipliers, I was looking at the marriott card and it's so much better than the amex marriott biz card, I often times see chase gives more spending offers than amex. I feel like amex is just to save on stuff, sometimes they give targeted offers but not all the time. I heard chase is really good when it comes to biz too and amex not so much, but I would choose chase and cap1 over amex I feel like.

That's going to depend on the business.

Take property management. I can't pay municipal water bills with Amex, but apart from that Business Platinum is a wonderful card for me.

- 150,000 MR SUB

- 1.5x on most spend (lots of construction/hardware and stuff over $5k). Those are not common bonus categories!

- Easy redemptions on Delta for ALL my MRs (I just changed my choice of airline) at a better value than I can generally find with SkyMiles.

- No need to go through weird transfer partners. (But I have that option when it proves worthwhile!)

- Great purchase protections and extended warranties (nice when buying a lot of appliances).

- Lounge perks (though I already had the Schwab card) on personal travel.

- Great tools for tracking and organizing expenses and receipts.

- High AF, but I get nearly all (I don't use Indeed) of the credits through almost-natural spend habits. It think the only unnatural purchase so far was a United travel bank balance reload to get the last bit of the 2021 airfare extras credit.

Other businesses may spend a lot on office supplies, advertising, shipping, dining, or travel. But I have fairly little spend in those categories. Cell phone protection with a monthly $10 credit against the wireless bill is good enough for my modest telecom spend.

SUBs are always nice, and having a V/MC is important, but I don't see anything in the Chase Business lineup that would take much spend away from my Business Platinum.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

FinStar — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 06:56:43 GMT

A reminder to keep business credit/product discussions for the appropriate area (i.e. Business Credit subforum). The OP did not ask for business credit alternatives that were suggested upthread. If you desire to expand on those options, you know the place where those discussions should occur. Thanks.

-FS

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

EAJuggalo — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 12:29:24 GMT

To me, it came down to where I want to transfer the points to and what my biggest spending categories are. I have the Chase Trifecta and the AMEX Gold Card. I've earned many more MR using the Gold card than I have even combining all three of my Chase cards. Now that I have a BBP I'm keeping my Chase cards for a few specific reasons. Primary auto insurance on the CSP, Cell Phone insurance on the Freedom Flex.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

SouthJamaica — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 14:57:22 GMT

@increasingmyfico wrote:
I find AMEX Everyday points cards to be rather lackluster. I wish they had a mr card with a similar structure to the BCP. Looking to pool points annually for a nice trip. That could be done with just the charge cards, but I would like a third player as a catch all. 1 point on most transactions is terrible. The grocery benefit on the Everyday Preferred is outdone by the Gold. No wonder people seem to gravitate to the Chase setup. Amex has some holes in its lineup.

~~It does have an enhanced version of the Everyday card, the Everyday Preferred.~~

Never mind, I just read your post more carefully and see that you don't care for the Everyday Preferred either.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

jcooks — Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:46:04 GMT

That's ironic as I feel the complete opposite of Amex trifecta vs Chase trifecta (or even quadfecta). Amex points are much easier for me to get. I have the Amex Gold for 4x on groceries and dining and BBP for 2x as a catchall for everything else. I will be applying for the Plat very soon for travel. There's too much overlap with Chase. I have the Chase Freedom Flex and the Chase Sapphire Preferred. I only get 3x on dining and no mulitpliers on groceries. I can get 3x on online groceries, but there's a charge for that service around me so I don't use that at all. Other than the SUB's and the rotating categories on the CFF, I find it more difficult for me to get Chase UR points as opposed to Amex MR points. Most of my spend really goes towards dining and groceries. My highest multiplier other than rotating categories from Chase would be my parking garage at 2x for travel.

You would have to see which system works better for you and your spend. It's not always a 1 glove fits all.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

Aim_High — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 00:51:03 GMT

@jcooks wrote:
That's ironic as I feel the complete opposite of Amex trifecta vs Chase trifecta (or even quadfecta). Amex points are much easier for me to get. I have the Amex Gold for 4x on groceries and dining and BBP for 2x as a catchall for everything else. I will be applying for the Plat very soon for travel. There's too much overlap with Chase. I have the Chase Freedom Flex and the Chase Sapphire Preferred. I only get 3x on dining and no mulitpliers on groceries. I can get 3x on online groceries, but there's a charge for that service around me so I don't use that at all. Other than the SUB's and the rotating categories on the CFF, I find it more difficult for me to get Chase UR points as opposed to Amex MR points. Most of my spend really goes towards dining and groceries. My highest multiplier other than rotating categories from Chase would be my parking garage at 2x for travel.

You would have to see which system works better for you and your spend. It's not always a 1 glove fits all.

^ This. I am evaluating MRs against URs and I'm coming to the opposite conclusion than you, @jcooks, but I completely agree that which system someone gets better value may vary. IMO, the keys to the differences lie in spending patterns, ability to recoup credits, and most of all, how someone intends to redeem those points.

While I don't intend to redeem URs for cash, I appreciate how they are always worth no less than 1 cpp as opposed to as little at 0.6 cpp with MRs. I also appreciate the ability to redeem directly in travel portal for a flat 1.5 cpp, without hassle. My observations so far are that MRs are worth only about 1 cpp through AMEX travel. So Chase URs beat MRs in both those areas (cash and travel portal) from my perspective. (While MRs can be redeemed for 1.1 ccp with the Schwab Platinum if transferred to investments, that entails another AF in the mix.)

For anyone invested in MRs, they are probably paying more than one high AF as part of that combo, and being able to organically claim enough credits against those high fees is essential to claiming a genuinely-high return. Platinum + Gold = $945 versus the Sapphire Reserve's $550 and no second AF card required. Chase starts out with a $395 advantage on fees. While AMEX offers plenty of opportunities with various credits that could theoretically offset most or all of those fees, they don't work well for everyone.

Both MRs and URs are most valuable if transferred to partners. So if this is your sole redemption goal, I think this is where MRs begin to pull significantly ahead for some consumers, but depending on where (and how) they will redeem. Preferences in travel partners and ability to leverage points for higher values comes more into play.

Chase added enhanced UR point earnings on travel portal bookings also which made it more competitive to AMEX point earnings. CSR now earns 10x UR on flights and 5x UR on hotels and rental cars booked in portal. I'm noting that some of the comments I've seen in this or other threads are comparing the Sapphire Preferred's lower value to AMEX charge cards instead of the possibilities with the Sapphire Reserve.

Chase does have more of a hole in ability to earn URs for grocery spend. However, the differences may be negligible depending on several factors. 1) Possible unclaimed credits creating breakage on the higher AMEX annual fees. 2) Where someone grocery shops in terms of MCC, since Gold won't earn 4x MR at warehouse clubs or discount stores. 3) Possible alternatives to buying groceries on Chase cards chip away at the differences. For example, instead of focusing ALL spend on UR points, someone could switch to other cards where they could get a higher 3% to 5% in cash for groceries when UR point value is diminished. 4) Volume of grocery spend is important. For one example, since DW and I are older and empty-nesters, our grocery bill is not nearly as high as some families.

The AMEX-Chase discussion will go on forever since they both have their strengths and are best-suited for different lifestyles, spending patterns, and preferences.

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

wasCB14 — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 02:41:15 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@jcooks wrote:
That's ironic as I feel the complete opposite of Amex trifecta vs Chase trifecta (or even quadfecta). Amex points are much easier for me to get. I have the Amex Gold for 4x on groceries and dining and BBP for 2x as a catchall for everything else. I will be applying for the Plat very soon for travel. There's too much overlap with Chase. I have the Chase Freedom Flex and the Chase Sapphire Preferred. I only get 3x on dining and no mulitpliers on groceries. I can get 3x on online groceries, but there's a charge for that service around me so I don't use that at all. Other than the SUB's and the rotating categories on the CFF, I find it more difficult for me to get Chase UR points as opposed to Amex MR points. Most of my spend really goes towards dining and groceries. My highest multiplier other than rotating categories from Chase would be my parking garage at 2x for travel.

You would have to see which system works better for you and your spend. It's not always a 1 glove fits all.
^ This. I am evaluating MRs against URs and I'm coming to the opposite conclusion than you, @jcooks, but I completely agree that which system someone gets better value may vary. IMO, the keys to the differences lie in spending patterns, ability to recoup credits, and most of all, how someone intends to redeem those points.
.....
The AMEX-Chase discussion will go on forever since they both have their strengths and are best-suited for different lifestyles, spending patterns, and preferences.

The combination of (how you spend, how you redeem) is definitely a huge consideration.

Others have mentioned the "lifestyle" consideration, but some of the differences can be kind of arbitrary or trivial.

Delta vs. United

Equinox/SoulCycle vs. Peloton

Uber vs. Lyft

Re: AMEX Credit Card portfolio

increasingmyfico — Tue, 25 Jan 2022 05:15:48 GMT

Tons of good points made here. Some even hit me from angles I didn't think of. That is what makes this forum great. I wrote this more than anything just thinking about what I saw as a missing product. A consumer version of the BBP or something similar to compliment the charge cards for point earnings. For me I do want to build a setup to build a point bank for travel. Since I am already in with Amex I am likely to start there. For now I was just thinking out loud, but again realy great points.