topic Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold in Credit Cards

CSR v. AMEX Gold

atarvuzdar — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 17:42:25 GMT

I currently have both the CSR and an AMEX Platinum in my wallet. I used to be a big fan of the CSR until I got the AMEX Platinum and can't really justify the annual fees on both of those any longer. So I'm thinking to downgrade it to a no-fee card and applying for an AMEX Gold card since the Gold has 4x points on dining (competing with CSR's 3x points on dining). Lots of overlap between CSR and Platinum and I'm thinking the Gold could fill the dining niche that is not available on the Platinum--that would save me a couple hundred in fees every year and I can combine the Gold points with the Platinum (I think?). Or are there better combinations that anyone is aware of?

I'd welcome any thoughts on this!

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

Aim_High — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 01:38:26 GMT

@atarvuzdar wrote:
I currently have both the CSR and an AMEX Platinum in my wallet. I used to be a big fan of the CSR until I got the AMEX Platinum and can't really justify the annual fees on both of those any longer. So I'm thinking to downgrade it to a no-fee card and applying for an AMEX Gold card since the Gold has 4x points on dining (competing with CSR's 3x points on dining). Lots of overlap between CSR and Platinum and I'm thinking the Gold could fill the dining niche that is not available on the Platinum--that would save me a couple hundred in fees every year and I can combine the Gold points with the Platinum (I think?). Or are there better combinations that anyone is aware of?

I'd welcome any thoughts on this!

I'm kind of in the same boat, @atarvuzdar, but headed in a different direction. I acquired the CSR in 2018 and then added the AMEX Gold to experiment with MRs in 2020. The Platinum just didn't make sense for me. The credits are not at all useful and the airport lounge access is not so important. Meanwhile, the Gold had the potential to pay for itself with more useful 4x MR on grocery and dining and more useful credits. In practice, I have found that the credits on the Gold are inconvenient for me, and I'm losing money on the AF. And MRs for me are probably worth less than URs. So for the long-term, I'm headed back to Chase.

Don't get lured in by the 4x versus 3x comparison of points. It depends on how much YOU value each of them. In my case, for redemption in-portal with either AMEX or Chase, an MR was worth 1 cent but a UR was worth 1.5 cents, so my CSR would earn 4.5% on dining compared to 4% on my Gold. YMMV, though, and we have members getting 1.5 cpp to 2 ccp or even higher on MRs. I also appreciate how I'll never get less than 1 ccp on URs in cash, but MRs can be worth 6/10 ccp for cash (unless you also have a Schwab Platinum which would earn 1.1 cpp.) Also, remember to calculate how much of a drag the AF is on your earnings. Platinum + Gold = $695 + $250 = $945 in fees versus the $550 AF on the CSR. Since CSR covers travel and dining, it potentially replaces both AMEX cards with one fee, although your earnings ratios and benefits change. You're just missing the 4x grocery from Gold. It's possible to offset all the AMEX fees with a variety of credits, but are you using them all? Personally, I find the credits too cumbersome and restrictive, and they don't fit my organic spend if I weren't trying to redeem them. In the end, they just cost me money I wouldn't otherwise spend.

These are *my* thoughts for *my* situation, and may not apply to you. It all depends on how you will use the cards, what perks you value most, and how you will redeem points. There are many people who can get much more value from AMEX than Chase. For others, vise-versa. I'd encourage you to run your own numbers before you add another AMEX card or downgrade your CSR and make sure that's the direction you want to go.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

jcooks — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 19:30:19 GMT

My only gripe with Chase is the lack of multipliers on groceries. I was good with the Freedom Flex for this quarter. Maybe I'll just dine out for the rest of the year?

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

Aim_High — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 16:34:22 GMT

@jcooks wrote:
My only gripe with Chase is the lack of multipliers on groceries. I was good with the Freedom Flex for this quarter. Maybe I'll just dine out for the rest of the year?

Lol I guess that's one way to do it, @jcooks. Dining out is a big category for me between dining for business travel and also often at home with DW since we are dual-income empty-nesters. But we also buy at Costco or at superstores which often don't code as grocery with some cards. For my grocery spend, I have other card options but our grocery spend isn't that high anyway. Have you considered the Citi Custom Cash ($500 per month as a grocery card), the AMEX Blue Cash Preferred (6% on groceries up to $6K for 4.4% effective after the $95 AF), or the Navy FCU More Rewards (3% on groceries, gas, and restaurants - all uncapped with no AF)?

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

wasCB14 — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:21:09 GMT

My favorite feature of my Gold card?

The fact Uber still thinks it's a Platinum.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

GatorGuy — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:23:28 GMT

The only real benefit that I can see for the CSR is that is a great travel card and a good restaurant card. If you are a heavy user in both those categories then it is usually worth having.

Othewise there are probably cards that fit your line up better.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

jcooks — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:28:36 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@jcooks wrote:
My only gripe with Chase is the lack of multipliers on groceries. I was good with the Freedom Flex for this quarter. Maybe I'll just dine out for the rest of the year?
Lol I guess that's one way to do it, @jcooks. Dining out is a big category for me between dining on for business travel and also often at home with DW since we are dual-income empty-nesters. But we also buy at Costco or at superstores which often don't code as grocery with some cards. For my grocery spend, I have other card options but our grocery spend isn't that high anyway. Have you considered the Citi Custom Cash ($500 per month as a grocery card), the AMEX Blue Cash Preferred (6% on groceries up to $6K for 4.4% effective after the $95 AF), or the Navy FCU More Rewards (3% on groceries, gas, and restaurants - all uncapped with no AF)?

I'm all in for points over cashback. I think that's why my Chase cards were put on the backburner due to too many overlaps and have some gaps in my spending on multipliers. Whereas Amex doesn't. I'm still currently using all Chase right now as I transferred 158k points to Hyatt for an all inclusive resort in DR. I literally have 700 points in my Chase account...I'm Chase broke right now.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

NRB525 — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 20:54:22 GMT

The Gold or the AMEX Green could be considered.
Gold yes has dining, also many grocery stores ( not all ) at 4 MR points.
The Green gets general travel spend. So it would depend whether your spend leans more to travel ( hotels and rental cars ) vs groceries, either Gold or Green.

And both Gold and Green combine points into your existing MR account with Platinum and ED.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

expatCanuck — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 22:22:28 GMT

ED is an unfortunate acronym.

That aside ... CSR made sense for me pre-pandemic. Have since downgraded to the CSP. I found (and still find) the Amex math too confusing -- but their BCE makes sense for me for groceries. BCP doesn't (unless Amex waives the fee, as they're doing now) -- just she & I at home - especially when Disco gives 5% for 3 months for free.

Just acquired the Altitude Go for when I max out the Citi Custom Cash for dining.

All manner of options out there.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

OmarGB9 — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 23:16:33 GMT

You can't really compare the 3x vs 4x on dining since they're completely different cards/ecosystems, as @Aim_High pointed out.

Also, not sure which card you were referring to when you mentioned downgrading to a no-AF card, but the Platinum can't be downgraded to anything without an AF. The lowest it would go down to is $95 if you change it to a Green card. CSR *can* be downgraded to a no-AF card I believe (Freedom family).

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

atarvuzdar — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 01:11:35 GMT

Really helpful comments here, thank you all! I need to think a little more about this, clearly!

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

Aim_High — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 02:00:56 GMT

@NRB525 wrote:
The Gold or the AMEX Green could be considered.
Gold yes has dining, also many grocery stores ( not all ) at 4 MR points.
The Green gets general travel spend. So it would depend whether your spend leans more to travel ( hotels and rental cars ) vs groceries, either Gold or Green.

And both Gold and Green combine points into your existing MR account with Platinum and ED.

This is true. If you commit to MRs instead of URs, @atarvuzdar, you might consider whether the Gold + Green works better for you than the Platinum + Gold, or if perhaps you want to go in all-in and get all three to optimize your overall points accrual.

And then there are other MR-earning card options like the Blue Business Plus that earns 2x MR (on up to $50K spend) with no AF, the Charles Schwab version of Platinum which would allow you to cash-in MRs for 1.1 ccp, or the Everyday Preferred which would earn 3x MR at grocery stores and 2x MR for gas. All of these work well to maximize MR-point accrual, depending on how you spend and want to set up your wallet.

Of course the annual fees are a consideration. Platinum $695 + Gold $250 + Green $150 + Everyday Preferred $95 = $1,190 per year, so you'd have to be getting a lot of value per MR, a lot of value from credits, or doing a very large volume to spend.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

Aim_High — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 01:59:49 GMT

@OmarGB9 wrote:
You can't really compare the 3x vs 4x on dining since they're completely different cards/ecosystems, as @Aim_High pointed out.

Also, not sure which card you were referring to when you mentioned downgrading to a no-AF card, but the Platinum can't be downgraded to anything without an AF. The lowest it would go down to is $95 if you change it to a Green card. CSR *can* be downgraded to a no-AF card I believe (Freedom family).

True, AMEX charge cards do not have a no-AF downgrade path. And while the lowest AF (for Green) used to be $95, it changed a couple of years ago to $150. That's the cheapest option other than just closing an AMEX charge card.

Chase Sapphire Reserve can be downgraded to Sapphire Preferred ($95 AF) or the no-AF Freedom Flex or Freedom Unlimited. There is another downgrade path to the "original" no-AF Sapphire card from 2009, but it's so obsolete that it's not very practical as an option for most people versus the Freedom cards. I did some recent refresher on that card's structure and benefits, and posted it about it on >THIS LINK< if anyone cares to read more about it.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

ThomasJNewton — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 02:04:04 GMT

@atarvuzdar wrote:
I currently have both the CSR and an AMEX Platinum in my wallet. I used to be a big fan of the CSR until I got the AMEX Platinum and can't really justify the annual fees on both of those any longer.

Without knowing why you like the Platinum, it is really hard to answer effectively. If you fly a lot to cities with Centurion Lounges, use Uber for at least $15 a month, subscribe to Peacock or the digital NYT, etc., the answer will be very different then if your reasons were very different. :-)

So I'm thinking to downgrade it to a no-fee card and applying for an AMEX Gold card since the Gold has 4x points on dining (competing with CSR's 3x points on dining).

By “it”, I am guessing you mean the Chase Sapphire Reserve?

Lots of overlap between CSR and Platinum

That is true.

and I'm thinking the Gold could fill the dining niche that is not available on the Platinum--that would save me a couple hundred in fees every year and I can combine the Gold points with the Platinum (I think?). Or are there better combinations that anyone is aware of?

What things matter most to you? Lounge Access? Grocery Spending? Gas? Primary Car Insurance? Without knowing your priorities, it is really hard to advise you. :-)

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

Citylights18 — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 08:45:52 GMT

My highest AF personal card is currently the AMEX Gold ($250) followed by CSP ($95) and Citi Premier ($95).

I was a lot happier overall with the AMEX Green as i was earning enough AMEX offers to pay for the Green as I was using it for parking garages, typically getting discounts there as part of shop small. It earns 3x transit which is enough better to use it than a CSP and it does have the Loungebuddy credit which I haven't used but could find a once or twice a year usage for it. I'd also while vacationing put some tours on it since its a general 3x card.

AMEX Gold I am not going to use for dining. The Uber Eats credit encourages you to spend more rather than save anything in the long run. I won't use it as a dining card over my Freedom Flex. Freedom Flex has 5% groceries once a year so definitely no reason to use the AMEX Gold then.

The CSR is a great card if you run a lot of spend on travel. My situation is that I've built up so many points that I don't have to pay for travel so I might not even spend the $300 travel credit which is required to spend out to lower the net cost of the AF. You have to completely commit to the the CSR for it to work and I'd rather have Hyatt and Marriott cards at lower AF that provide direct perks with those chains.

Usually you can get better discounts through their websites than what you can find on the chase travel portal (I could be wrong about this). The price with my CSP is $129 with its discount while the same price through the Hyatt site is $142.13. CSR would be even lower in price for the same hotel. CSP requires 11,666 points and Hyatt requires 12,000 for that same hotel. Obviously again here the CSR would be even less points. The 10x for hotels is better than what you can do (normally) than buying through Hyatts's site. Of course there are double and triple points promotions from time to time with the Hyatt card.

Re: CSR v. AMEX Gold

jcooks — Fri, 25 Mar 2022 12:03:41 GMT

One big factor you have to weight in is, which point system do you want to focus on. You are able to get points on both, but I can see issues if you spread your spend too thin across multiple points system. I find myself in this same predicament. I find Amex points much easier to get. In less than a year, I was able to get nearly 400k MR points. Within that same year, I was able to get less than 160k UR points. I chose this route because I devote MR points to flights and UR points to Hyatt stays. I should be applying to the Hyatt card very soon and not really sure where I would stand with Chase at that point.