topic Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util in Credit Cards

How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Utilization)

njames33 — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 23:03:13 GMT

Was denied last month from Amex, US Bank & Discover/prequal for "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high". Was previously at $42k & 56% utilization with 742 Fico & no negatives.
Since then previous auto loan was paid off, new auto reported and new CC reported which dropped me to a 717 Fico. Currently at $29k & 38% total utilization.
Debt from business expenses so ideally trying to move to buisness cards OR 0% balance transfer cards.

Any ideas what amounts lenders consider are "too high" and if it would make sense to reapply with my current numbers? Will have another new account reporting by the 30th so that will likely ding my score again if I wait. Appreciate any feedback.

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

Remedios — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 23:06:37 GMT

@njames33 just so it's clear, you want to discuss business credit?

If so, I'll move your thread to business credit. If not, it stays here.

Business and personal cards chat is kept separate, so let me know

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

njames33 — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 23:26:51 GMT

@Remedios wrote:
@njames33 just so it's clear, you want to discuss business credit?
If so, I'll move your thread to business credit. If not, it stays here.
Business and personal cards chat is kept separate, so let me know

Hi @Remedios thanks for checking. Let's keep it here as it's not specifially biz related and more about what lenders consider "too high" for revolving accounts. Biz cards ideal but getting approved for any balance transfer card is #1 priority. Thx again!

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

K-in-Boston — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 23:50:35 GMT

@njames33 wrote:
Was denied last month from Amex, US Bank & Discover/prequal for "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high". Was previously at $42k & 56% utilization with 742 Fico & no negatives.
Since then previous auto loan was paid off, new auto reported and new CC reported which dropped me to a 717 Fico. Currently at $29k & 38% total utilization.
Debt from business expenses so ideally trying to move to buisness cards OR 0% balance transfer cards.

Any ideas what amounts lenders consider are "too high" and if it would make sense to reapply with my current numbers? Will have another new account reporting by the 30th so that will likely ding my score again if I wait. Appreciate any feedback.

How raw dollar amounts affect you with lenders will really vary by your income/assets and credit history. I've had substantial raw revolving dollar amounts owed for about 15 years now (they're on a downward trend, just slower than I'd like). They can sometimes cause me issues with Chase, and Amex will now occasionally cite that as a reason for denying a CLI increase, although they've approved me for 2 additional cards with $10k limits each since they cut off the tap so who knows? To be transparent, I have a very well-aged profile, have never had a single late payment or any other derogatory info, and have played the algorithm game enough to keep my scores high despite that.

Utilization on the other hand is a different story. Since it's a major factor in scoring, going above 30% aggregate can really ding your scores, and can cause many lenders to give pause - particularly if it's causing your scores to be depressed. Another factor woudl be how those balances are allocated. Do you have a handful of maxed out cards? Using a lot of revolving credit across the board? Most of your cards reporting balances, even if small on some of them? All of those factors can hurt and it's sometimes a juggling act to figure out what hurts less.

You'll want to look at lenders whose underwriting (manual or automated) will feel your 700+ score is great and who aren't scared off by utilization numbers. In most cases, that's going to be a credit union and would be the absolute first place I would start. Are you eligible for Navy Federal Credit Union membership? Do you have any derogatory info on your credit reports, or are your scores simply being held down by revolving utilization?

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

njames33 — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 02:19:48 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@njames33 wrote:
Was denied last month from Amex, US Bank & Discover/prequal for "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high". Was previously at $42k & 56% utilization with 742 Fico & no negatives.
Since then previous auto loan was paid off, new auto reported and new CC reported which dropped me to a 717 Fico. Currently at $29k & 38% total utilization.
Debt from business expenses so ideally trying to move to buisness cards OR 0% balance transfer cards.

Any ideas what amounts lenders consider are "too high" and if it would make sense to reapply with my current numbers? Will have another new account reporting by the 30th so that will likely ding my score again if I wait. Appreciate any feedback.
How raw dollar amounts affect you with lenders will really vary by your income/assets and credit history. I've had substantial raw revolving dollar amounts owed for about 15 years now (they're on a downward trend, just slower than I'd like). They can sometimes cause me issues with Chase, and Amex will now occasionally cite that as a reason for denying a CLI increase, although they've approved me for 2 additional cards with $10k limits each since they cut off the tap so who knows? To be transparent, I have a very well-aged profile, have never had a single late payment or any other derogatory info, and have played the algorithm game enough to keep my scores high despite that.

Utilization on the other hand is a different story. Since it's a major factor in scoring, going above 30% aggregate can really ding your scores, and can cause many lenders to give pause - particularly if it's causing your scores to be depressed. Another factor woudl be how those balances are allocated. Do you have a handful of maxed out cards? Using a lot of revolving credit across the board? Most of your cards reporting balances, even if small on some of them? All of those factors can hurt and it's sometimes a juggling act to figure out what hurts less.

You'll want to look at lenders whose underwriting (manual or automated) will feel your 700+ score is great and who aren't scared off by utilization numbers. In most cases, that's going to be a credit union and would be the absolute first place I would start. Are you eligible for Navy Federal Credit Union membership? Do you have any derogatory info on your credit reports, or are your scores simply being held down by revolving utilization?

Perfect credit history. Combo of utiliztion, car being paid off, new auto loan & CC all reporting at the same time dropped my score.
Net income after expenses $85k but gross over $100k (new biz income) what I had on my apps. I think $45k in cc debt too high for that income.
I'd hate to get hit with another inquiry trying again with my improved numbers so was hoping to have some feedback here first.
Already in with most of the good credit unions but ideally looking for business cards that don't report to person to start applying with then good balance transfer cards after.

AAoA: 5 years/8months
AoNA: 1 months (car loan PenFed, CC PenFed)
AoOA: 15 years/10months

1 installment loan accounts (new auto)

0 negatives. Only red flags are:
High revolving account balances
High installment loan balances

38% Revolving Utilization $29k
1 Card 88% $15k (0% balance transfer)
1 Card 60% $15k (best purchase APR)
3 other CC's less than $50

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

GatorGuy — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:13:15 GMT

Since your utilization came down you can check for a pre-approval from Amex again. There is also a thread on the forums that lists all the SP pre-approvals that you can try.

Ideally your individual card utilization should be under 30% and overall utilization under 9%. So you are being hurt triple since you have two individual cards so high. One is considered almost maxed out. And your overall is so high.

As you mentioned, you absolute balances are incredibly high for your income. I've been given that reason code because of balances in the $40k to $50k range although my utilization was far lower than yours and income much higher.

Good luck!

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

bigseegar — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:51:06 GMT

Very good insight @K-in-Boston

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

disdreamin — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 16:30:47 GMT

@njames33 wrote:
Perfect credit history. Combo of utiliztion, car being paid off, new auto loan & CC all reporting at the same time dropped my score.
<snip>
AAoA: 5 years/8months
AoNA: 1 months (car loan PenFed, CC PenFed)
AoOA: 15 years/10months
1 installment loan accounts (new auto)
0 negatives. Only red flags are:
High revolving account balances
High installment loan balances
38% Revolving Utilization $29k
1 Card 88% $15k (0% balance transfer)
1 Card 60% $15k (best purchase APR)
3 other CC's less than $50

It must be the utilization that is dragging your scores down, by a significant amount. My AAoA is longer, but last year when I had a new credit card and auto loan reporting, and my scores dropped no more than 40 pts and hovered around 800. Utilization must be rough on scores.

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

njames33 — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 22:20:19 GMT

@GatorGuy wrote:
Since your utilization came down you can check for a pre-approval from Amex again. There is also a thread on the forums that lists all the SP pre-approvals that you can try.

Ideally your individual card utilization should be under 30% and overall utilization under 9%. So you are being hurt triple since you have two individual cards so high. One is considered almost maxed out. And your overall is so high.

As you mentioned, you absolute balances are incredibly high for your income. I've been given that reason code because of balances in the $40k to $50k range although my utilization was far lower than yours and income much higher.

Good luck!

Any ideas where I would need to get down to in order to not be flagged "too high". I understand what is "ideal" but trying to figure out the minimum I can pay down to not get flagged for this again.

Re: How much is "too high" for amounts owed on revolving accounts? (717 Fico $29k/38% Util

Suzette2 — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 12:29:56 GMT

@njames33 wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
@njames33 wrote:
Was denied last month from Amex, US Bank & Discover/prequal for "Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high". Was previously at $42k & 56% utilization with 742 Fico & no negatives.
Since then previous auto loan was paid off, new auto reported and new CC reported which dropped me to a 717 Fico. Currently at $29k & 38% total utilization.
Debt from business expenses so ideally trying to move to buisness cards OR 0% balance transfer cards.

Any ideas what amounts lenders consider are "too high" and if it would make sense to reapply with my current numbers? Will have another new account reporting by the 30th so that will likely ding my score again if I wait. Appreciate any feedback.
How raw dollar amounts affect you with lenders will really vary by your income/assets and credit history. I've had substantial raw revolving dollar amounts owed for about 15 years now (they're on a downward trend, just slower than I'd like). They can sometimes cause me issues with Chase, and Amex will now occasionally cite that as a reason for denying a CLI increase, although they've approved me for 2 additional cards with $10k limits each since they cut off the tap so who knows? To be transparent, I have a very well-aged profile, have never had a single late payment or any other derogatory info, and have played the algorithm game enough to keep my scores high despite that.

Utilization on the other hand is a different story. Since it's a major factor in scoring, going above 30% aggregate can really ding your scores, and can cause many lenders to give pause - particularly if it's causing your scores to be depressed. Another factor woudl be how those balances are allocated. Do you have a handful of maxed out cards? Using a lot of revolving credit across the board? Most of your cards reporting balances, even if small on some of them? All of those factors can hurt and it's sometimes a juggling act to figure out what hurts less.

You'll want to look at lenders whose underwriting (manual or automated) will feel your 700+ score is great and who aren't scared off by utilization numbers. In most cases, that's going to be a credit union and would be the absolute first place I would start. Are you eligible for Navy Federal Credit Union membership? Do you have any derogatory info on your credit reports, or are your scores simply being held down by revolving utilization?
Perfect credit history. Combo of utiliztion, car being paid off, new auto loan & CC all reporting at the same time dropped my score.
Net income after expenses $85k but gross over $100k (new biz income) what I had on my apps. I think $45k in cc debt too high for that income.
I'd hate to get hit with another inquiry trying again with my improved numbers so was hoping to have some feedback here first.
Already in with most of the good credit unions but ideally looking for business cards that don't report to person to start applying with then good balance transfer cards after.

AAoA: 5 years/8months
AoNA: 1 months (car loan PenFed, CC PenFed)
AoOA: 15 years/10months
1 installment loan accounts (new auto)
0 negatives. Only red flags are:
High revolving account balances
High installment loan balances
38% Revolving Utilization $29k
1 Card 88% $15k (0% balance transfer)
1 Card 60% $15k (best purchase APR)
3 other CC's less than $50

I would tend to think the high util is oft putting to Amex. They like PIF on cards- and even if you use their credit cards Plan It feature, they like it low util and paid off early. They also like good income- but you're covered there.