topic Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience in Credit Cards

Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 20:27:37 GMT

I might soon join expats so wonder about their experience using US CCs in foreign lands.

What do you use and do you encounter any difficulties. Thx!

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

M_Smart007 — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 22:48:19 GMT

Tagging @expatCanuck for possible answers.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

K-in-Boston — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 22:55:18 GMT

@M_Smart007 wrote:
Tagging @expatCanuck for possible answers.

OP has US-issued credit cards; pretty sure they are referring to the opposite direction.

While I don't live outside the US, for the most part this will the same as traveling in general (just obviously very prolonged or permanent) as long as you plan to maintain a US bank account for payment. As with travel, your experience is going to be very different depending on where you are planning to move.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

expatCanuck — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 23:09:48 GMT

Stated another way ...

Using a US-issued card abroad -- typically not an issue (as long as you inform the issuer).

Keeping a US-issued card if you change domicile -- a whole 'nother smoke.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

C6 — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 23:23:48 GMT

I lived offshore a few years back and for the most part I had no problems banking yet most was done with credit unions. You will need to maintain a US address and preferably a US phone number (Google voice will work). Some banks will close your accounts if they find out you're permanently offshore, while others don't seem to care. I recommend either Fidelity or Schwab for cash access. Mostly things were smooth but I had a few fraud alerts where my card was locked down until I called fraud prevention. This only happened a few times. As far as opening offshore accounts that is another thing, be prepared for a lot of headaches. I still have offshore cedit cards and banking but they were not easy to get if you're a US citizen.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 00:13:35 GMT

@C6 wrote:
I lived offshore a few years back and for the most part I had no problems banking yet most was done with credit unions. You will need to maintain a US address and preferably a US phone number (Google voice will work). Some banks will close your accounts if they find out you're permanently offshore, while others don't seem to care. I recommend either Fidelity or Schwab for cash access. Mostly things were smooth but I had a few fraud alerts where my card was locked down until I called fraud prevention. This only happened a few times. As far as opening offshore accounts that is another thing, be prepared for a lot of headaches. I still have offshore cedit cards and banking but they were not easy to get if you're a US citizen.

Could you give me some examples of those banks? I was thinking using my US issued credit cards in South Korea. Checking acct associated with those CCs is Hanmi bank(AmeriKorean) in LA.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

C6 — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 00:32:09 GMT

Most of the larger banks (Chase, citi, B of A, etc.) will shut you down if they learn that you have moved offshore. As I said earlier, you need to keep a US address and possibly rotate the cards. Smaller banks and credit unions don't seem to mind but I wouldn't advertise it. Just keep a US address and phone and an account or two to pay bills and you will likely stay under the radar. Good luck.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 01:39:59 GMT

@C6 wrote:
I lived offshore a few years back and for the most part I had no problems banking yet most was done with credit unions. You will need to maintain a US address and preferably a US phone number (Google voice will work).

As far as opening offshore accounts that is another thing, be prepared for a lot of headaches. I still have offshore cedit cards and banking but they were not easy to get if you're a US citizen.

Just as a warning, Google Voice may not work for every bank. My daughter has been living in the UK for three years, using our home address for her US issued credit cards. The Altitude Reserve is a very useful card in the UK (as mobile pay is EVERYWHERE) so she is particularly careful about this. While Google Voice IS ok for Real Time Rewards, it is not accepted as your contact number. So we've kept a cheap phone line (e.g. Tello) just for a US Bank number, and every now and then I get a message from my daughter that she needs the code on that number (it's generally needed for access to the account rather than fraud detection)

As for opening accounts as a US citizen, sadly true as the US cracks down on tax avoidance/evasion (and money laundering), foreign banks are pressured provide info on US citizens to US authorities. When my daughter (dual citizen) opened her first account, they said at the end "Oh, and just sign that you aren't a US citizen or US tax resident" and she had to explain that she was. They allowed her to open it, perhaps because most of the work had been done, but I've certainly read stories where things didn't go so easily.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 02:07:06 GMT

I'm not a citizen but a permanent resident(citizen of South Korea): will this make much difference.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

xenon3030 — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 04:30:24 GMT

I guess not every bank would support it and not sure whether it is feasible to login to some banks from abroad (or even using VPN). One example is BOA and even when I am here, I cannot login to it, if using VPN. It seems that they do not like VPN and customer data protection by the customer!!!

I know some people went for ~1-2 years to east Asia or Europe as expat (the same employer). As long as it would be temporary, it should be fine but if it is going to be permanent, the situation would be very different. Depending on your destination, you may apply for a few cards there and it should not impact your credit score here . Anyway, outside the US, the majority of cards have no or very limited rewards.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 04:33:21 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I'm not a citizen but a permanent resident(citizen of South Korea): will this make much difference.

Don't think it should. Most financial rules (e.g. taxed on world wide income) apply equally to citizens and permanent residents. But I think the advice given up above is all you really need: to the best of your ability, don't let US issuers know you are out of the country for an extended period, in particular do not give them a foreign address.

You may need a cheap way to replenish your US bank account if you are earning in SK, and renewal cards need to be sent to a US address and then get to you "somehow".

This may be overly cautious, as, for example, 99.9% of my daughter's US Bank transactions over the last three years have been in the UK, which might be a little clue! But as long as the address stays US, it seems to be OK

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 04:41:03 GMT

Going the other way, when I first moved here (to help put down the revolution) Barclays PLC closed my UK credit card after a few weeks noting that I no longer lived in the UK (which, to be fair, is a UK requirement for a UK credit card). At that time, there wasn't a Barclaycard US group, wonder if they would have offered to transfer me if that happened today (probably not, too compartmentalized)

FWIW: Bank of Scotland has kept open a deposit account which, because of preferential tax treatment, is explicitly only for UK residents. Life on the edge.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

ThomasJNewton — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 06:08:13 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Going the other way, when I first moved here (to help put down the revolution) Barclays PLC closed my UK credit card after a few weeks noting that I no longer lived in the UK (which, to be fair, is a UK requirement for a UK credit card).

Nice to meet someone my age on here. I spent time with Thomas Jefferson as his Naval Attaché while he was negotiating the Treaty of Paris. While I was there I opened an account with the Rothschild Bank which worked in the U.K. as well as at their family bank branches all over Europe. Sadly, they did not have any branches back in the U.S., so I closed it shortly after the War of 1812 and the nasty business with the Barbary Coast Pirates.

At that time, there wasn't a Barclaycard US group, wonder if they would have offered to transfer me if that happened today (probably not, too compartmentalized)

I wondered that about the Rothschild bank as well (it would have required waiting about 175 years, but that does not seem that bad). They were always pretty good about allowing account access from other places, so maybe.

My question for the OP is will you be working for the same company in South Korea where you work now, and if so is it considered a permanent transfer or what military people call TDY (Temporary Duty), a limited time (even if long) assignment.

I spent quite a bit of time over seas while in the military, and working for U.S. companies overseas, and never had a problem. I did maintain a U.S. address and phone number (I always used my parents' address as it was stable and I moved around so much). If you really are not going to maintain a U.S. presence it is much harder.

I would suggest not using a Google voice number (as it sets off many red flags), but instead consider a VoIP line from someone like VoIP.ms or Vonage. While they are VoIP lines, they are treated my like regular lines by most companies.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

hawkins — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:07:25 GMT

@xenon3030 wrote:
I guess not every bank would support it and not sure whether it is feasible to login to some banks from abroad (or even using VPN). One example is BOA and even when I am here, I cannot login to it, if using VPN. It seems that they do not like VPN and customer data protection by the customer!!!

I know some people went for ~1-2 years to east Asia or Europe as expat (the same employer). As long as it would be temporary, it should be fine but if it is going to be permanent, the situation would be very different. Depending on your destination, you may apply for a few cards there and it should not impact your credit score here . Anyway, outside the US, the majority of cards have no or very limited rewards.

I am not sure what you are talking about. I use my Citi, Chase, Capital One, in limited cases Amex all the time abroad and get all the rewards you would get stateside. Never an issue.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

blackfines1 — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:47:51 GMT

you may use cc with no foreign transaction fees like , BOA travel reward , Citi premier , prestige , Credit union, Amex , delta

Any credit card with "no foreign transaction fees "

@Anonymous wrote:
I might soon join expats so wonder about their experience using US CCs in foreign lands.
What do you use and do you encounter any difficulties. Thx!

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Cookiegrabber — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 11:40:40 GMT

Long post incoming! Took 2 hours lol.

As someone who's been doing it the other way around for years -- Korean living in an often-marginalized US territory while keeping Korean finances and online interests alive -- I can recommend some things in detail, I think. (Please excuse the instructional tone, it's for clarity as I tend to write long and weird sentences usually.)

1. Keep at least 1 phone number open. 2 is much better. Keep these numbers registered at your financial institution.

The 1st phone number should be from a real cell service company, because some providers don't like VOIP. Choose a provider that has super low monthly rates and allows roaming to Korea, as all you'll be needing this for is receiving the occasional SMS that can't be sent to your VOIP number mentioned below. The SIM card must be activated on a phone that is geographically within the United States, so do it before you leave. Otherwise, you'll have to get a friend or family member in the US to do it for you and then mail it to Korea, which is a pain for them.

The 2nd number can be a VOIP number. This would actually be used more often than the 1st number as calls to CSRs and such would be way cheaper, and you won't have to do workarounds to receive SMS on your main phone. I use Hushed's lifetime account, purchased at StackSocial for something like $20, I think? You get 1000 calling minutes/year to the U.S. that refreshes every year, and I don't remember the SMS limit but it's more than enough. Call quality has been fine so far, and SMS that fail to arrive at my legit US territory phone number arrives here fine.

2. Have a second phone. This will house your US SIM card-based phone number that is perpetually roaming. Connect it to WiFi and leave mobile data off so that you don't get a huge surprise charge. Install a free Android app called SMS Forwarder that forwards all SMS that this phone receives to your designated e-mail address, and you'll be able to leave this phone at home. Your VOIP number should be installed on your main (Korean) phone since there is no physical SIM card required for it.

3. Have a paid mailing address. A physical address at your family or friend's place would be nice, too, but at least have your own paid mailing address, as it's one thing to ask a friend to mail you something once a year, and something else to have him/her receive a stack of stuff every week that they need to contact you about. These paid services are perfect for people going abroad, as their whole point of existence is to receive and/or forward mail for people that don't want or can't receive mail directly at home. They can also just scan stuff for you and shred them if they're not important (for a small fee, of course). Forwarding costs are also far cheaper than one-off forwarding companies like MyUS and such.

I've used PhysicalAddress, iPostal1, and AnytimeMailbox (my preference is in that order), but there are many others you can choose from online. PhysicalAddress has more of an integrated system, whereas iPostal1 and AnytimeMailbox are just platforms for small mailbox rental companies. PhysicalAddress is amazing except that they don't have many locations; iPostal1 works well once you're set up, but their customer support can take weeks to reply (the actual mailbox provider may have far better communication). I don't like AnytimeMailbox as it doesn't have a price quoting system. Some mailbox locations may not really be set up for international forwarding, so check with customer support beforehand.

I'd recommend that you set this up before you leave as well, since you can probably find a free or cheap Notary Public around town (the mailbox services require a USPS form from you that needs to be filled out and notarized). Korean notary services can get really expensive, especially if they think they need to translate stuff. You might also have to go near the US embassy for it if you don't want to pay a nearby attorney.

4. Online geo-restrictions and using VPN to get around them -- I'll try not to get technical on this one, but it's obviously important if you want to keep accounts alive for as long as possible.

TL;DR version:

If you are using a VPN connected to a US server and are still getting blocked by your bank's app and/or website, try another city, another state, or, more likely, another VPN service altogether. 99% of the time, you are seeing a solvable issue. There is no such thing as "VPNs don't work for banks", you just need to try harder. Try less-famous VPN services, but never use completely free ones.

Even the Chinese government can't block all VPNs, despite trying really, really hard to block them (most protocols have been blocked but Chinese chaps are still able to get through with a V2Ray setup). Netflix and such services spend a lot, too, probably way more than banks generally do, but they're still really easy to bypass and are not remotely in the same league as the Chinese government's level of expertise.

Long version:

You might want to know how VPN services work, and how IP blocking works.

VPN services do not own their own IPs. They pay for hosting at various hosting providers, and those hosts own the IPs. A bank (or any other website or streaming service, really) could block a specific IP, or the entire range of IPs owned by the IP owner (the "host", in general terms), or entire countries' IPs, as that stuff is public information. When you connect to a different city, the VPN service may be using a different host, which would mean that you would be on a different IP range that might not be blocked. So IP-block-happy websites would generally have the large hosts blocked, whereas they might never have seen enough fraud or hack attempts from smaller hosts to block their entire IP ranges. This is generally how you get around VPN-detection by Netflix and such.

So if the first VPN service and location you use to try to log in to your bank is blocked, try another location, another VPN service, etc. A "streaming-enabled"/"Netflix-enabled" location may have a less-blacklisted IP. But don't use completely free VPN services, as you never know what kind of logging they are doing in order to make money. If the large services (NordVPN, ExpressVPN, Surfshark, Windscribe, etc.) are all blocked, try smaller, less-known VPN services like PrivateVPN or WeVPN and such.

The best way, security-wise, would be for you to get your own Ubuntu VPS at a small host and set up your own VPN there, but that is not really for discussion in detail on this forum. For pointers, you could set up a Wireguard VPN using Nyr's road warrior Wireguard script, or a SOCKS5 proxy VPN using OutlineVPN. Both are real easy and take 2 minutes if you learn some very basic Linux networking.

To see who owns the IP that you are currently using, just go to https://iplocation.io and you'll be able to see who owns the IP and what geographic location it's registered for use at. Some IPs will have different locations on different databases, but the most recently updated one should be generally accurate.

5. Once you make a Korean bank account, sign up for Wirebarley to do easy, fast, cheap international transfers between Korea and the U.S. They're a Korean company, so they try to keep the two-way connection more stable than others, I've found. You'll need one account for US -> Korea transfers, and another for Korea -> US transfers. They'll use Plaid to connect your US bank account. Wise (formerly Transferwise) is a decent backup for US -> Korea, but their Korea -> US connection is not any sort of priority for them.

6. Enjoy the Korean banking! Their websites suck (too much of this "install this security app.. and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, too"), but 1-second ACH transfers are nice! There also used to be a lot of cheap unlimited-use Priority Pass credit cards about 10 years ago, but they're not common anymore. One thing with getting loans and cards there is that if you're working a regular job that provides the standard big-4 insurance to employees, the banks can see the amounts allocated to you and estimate your income -- so there's no income verification required. Korea has also gotten rid of penalties for hard pulls -- they no longer reduce your score no matter how many you have, and banks are not allowed to penalize you for having them. So credit denials are free! Your score drops only when the new account reports (which is really fast -- usually 0-2 days after approval). High APRs will drop your score much more than low APRs, so try to get the best deals. Premium credit monitoring services are cheap, as well -- like 10-20% of what CRAs here charge (or, at least, that's how they used to be when I used them). KCB and NICE are the 2 CRAs you want to keep track of.

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

K-in-Boston — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 13:33:43 GMT

@hawkins wrote:
@xenon3030 wrote:
...
Anyway, outside the US, the majority of cards have no or very limited rewards.
I am not sure what you are talking about. I use my Citi, Chase, Capital One, in limited cases Amex all the time abroad and get all the rewards you would get stateside. Never an issue.

Most cards issued outside of the US have rewards structures (or a total lack thereof) that don't compare favorably to credit card rewards on many US-issued cards. For instance, a US-issued Amex Gold will earn 4x MRs for restaurants and groceries; the UK counterpart earns 1x. APRs are often substantially higher as well (60-90% not at all uncommon even on so-called prime cards).

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

xenon3030 — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:32:15 GMT

@hawkins wrote:
@xenon3030 wrote:
I guess not every bank would support it and not sure whether it is feasible to login to some banks from abroad (or even using VPN). One example is BOA and even when I am here, I cannot login to it, if using VPN. It seems that they do not like VPN and customer data protection by the customer!!!

I am not sure what you are talking about. I use my Citi, Chase, Capital One, in limited cases Amex all the time abroad and get all the rewards you would get stateside. Never an issue.

There is no issue in using cards abroad and no issue in getting rewards (they get coded as here). Can you login to BOA from Europe to pay your CC monthly bill?

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 16:09:00 GMT

@xenon3030 wrote:
There is no issue in using cards abroad and no issue in getting rewards (they get coded as here). Can you login to BOA from Europe to pay your CC monthly bill?

I had no problem accessing Chase and US Bank (among others) from Europe. Don't recall if I used a VPN though

Re: Expats, what's your credit card experience

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Aug 2022 16:13:11 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@hawkins wrote:
@xenon3030 wrote:
...
Anyway, outside the US, the majority of cards have no or very limited rewards.
I am not sure what you are talking about. I use my Citi, Chase, Capital One, in limited cases Amex all the time abroad and get all the rewards you would get stateside. Never an issue.
Most cards issued outside of the US have rewards structures (or a total lack thereof) that don't compare favorably to credit card rewards on many US-issued cards. For instance, a US-issued Amex Gold will earn 4x MRs for restaurants and groceries; the UK counterpart earns 1x. APRs are often substantially higher as well (60-90% not at all uncommon even on so-called prime cards).

Right. I guess @hawkins interpreted the bolded sentence to be about the behavior of US cards outside the US, and with that interpretation the sentence is indeed wrong!