topic Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero? in Credit Cards

Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

KillingThemGingerly — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 08:08:17 GMT

Has anyone ever heard of being denied for a credit card because too many of your current accounts are reporting zero? On the surface your accounts reporting zero (except one - azeo) sounds ideal. However, I read this article on another website where this person felt Wells Fargo denied them for having too many cards reporting zero. They stated the WF denial letter said: "Ratio of credit bureau trades with a balance greater than zero (We look at the ratio of open and closed credit accounts that have a balance greater than zero in the last six months)".

To me that denial reason sounds like they denied him for too many accounts reporting MORE than zero, which would make morse sense to me. However, that blog post insists that it was because too many of his account hs report zero. WF perhaps is inferring they won't use the card and is just trying to get the bonus by applying.

Anyway, has anyone heard of having too many accounts reporting zero actually hurting your credit application chances?

(Idk if I am allowed to post it but this is the article I am speaking about: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-management/excellent-credit-score-denied-card/)

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

SUPERSQUID — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 08:38:01 GMT

I have seen denials for too many cards reporting a balance but never worded the way you list.

Actually it causes a red flag in that section of the credit report as a risk.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

SouthJamaica — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 11:39:27 GMT

@KillingThemGingerly wrote:
Has anyone ever heard of being denied for a credit card because too many of your current accounts are reporting zero? On the surface your accounts reporting zero (except one - azeo) sounds ideal. However, I read this article on another website where this person felt Wells Fargo denied them for having too many cards reporting zero. They stated the WF denial letter said: "Ratio of credit bureau trades with a balance greater than zero (We look at the ratio of open and closed credit accounts that have a balance greater than zero in the last six months)".

To me that denial reason sounds like they denied him for too many accounts reporting MORE than zero, which would make morse sense to me. However, that blog post insists that it was because too many of his account hs report zero. WF perhaps is inferring they won't use the card and is just trying to get the bonus by applying.

Anyway, has anyone heard of having too many accounts reporting zero actually hurting your credit application chances?

(Idk if I am allowed to post it but this is the article I am speaking about: https://www.creditcards.com/credit-management/excellent-credit-score-denied-card/)

No, I have never heard of any application being denied because the applicant had too many accounts reporting zero balances.

Nor did the letter referred to in the article say that that was the reason. Perhaps the applicant had all zero balances. Perhaps something else. But I have given up trying to interpret computer-generated messages of that sort.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

mgood — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 12:40:29 GMT

AZEO should help the credit score. But lenders look at more than just the score. I think it's conceivable that one might say "You have all these accounts you're not using. Why do you need another?" I can not cite an example of this being done, just saying it wouldn't surprise if one did.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

calisig — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 14:18:40 GMT

@KillingThemGingerly I agree with you. To me, "Ratio of credit bureau trades with a balance greater than zero (We look at the ratio of open and closed credit accounts that have a balance greater than zero in the last six months)" sounds like they denied him for too many accounts reporting MORE than zero. The author states, "I never carry a balance on my accounts." This doesn't necessarily mean the prevention of reporting a balance to the CRA's or AZEO. It could just mean PIF, in which case the author isn't carrying a balance that accrues interest, but still reports a balance to the CRA's. If so, we don't know what those balances are. This would make more sense based on the denial verbiage.

There are also a lot of DP's lacking. The author stated his score was 847, but didn't state what FICO version that is or if it is even FICO. The author also didn't state what version of his score was pulled by WF. We don't know what his x/6, x/12, and x/24 status of new accounts was, or the number in inquiries on showing on the report WF pulled. We don't know his debt to income ratio, or if there was a previous negative relationship with WF in the distant past. There is a lot we don't know from the article.

Maybe there was something in his profile that didn't make him a match for WF. Capital One for example is known for denying excellent credit scores with many accounts because their target customers are good scores that carry a balance and have few accounts. This is an important point the author fails to make. Just because you aren't a match for one bank doesn't mean you aren't a match for 10 other banks!

I have found many subtle flaws in the advice and information given from credit card marketing sites like the one you noted, so just because that author said that was how it was doesn't mean that was how it was. I wouldn't read too much into articles like this.

Finally, I agree with @SouthJamaica - those boiler plate letters can just be excuses of denial for other reasons they will never tell you, so trying to interpret them is often in vain.

Good luck on your credit journey.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

KillingThemGingerly — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 15:04:19 GMT

@mgood wrote:
AZEO should help the credit score. But lenders look at more than just the score. I think it's conceivable that one might say "You have all these accounts you're not using. Why do you need another?" I can not cite an example of this being done, just saying it wouldn't surprise if one did.

This was my feeling too. I've never seen it as a reasoning but I can sort of see it making sense if the bank is trying to look out for churners or something. Just the reasoning for the denial article in the link I provided did not come across to me as saying that they were denied for too many accounts reporting zero. For example, even if you pay your statement balance in full to not be charged interest, your account may still report showing a balance. I think that may be more likely what happened to that person.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

mgood — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 15:37:55 GMT

@calisig wrote:
@KillingThemGingerly I agree with you. To me, "Ratio of credit bureau trades with a balance greater than zero (We look at the ratio of open and closed credit accounts that have a balance greater than zero in the last six months)" sounds like they denied him for too many accounts reporting MORE than zero. The author states, "I never carry a balance on my accounts." This doesn't necessarily mean the prevention of reporting a balance to the CRA's or AZEO. It could just mean PIF, in which case the author isn't carrying a balance that accrues interest, but still reports a balance to the CRA's. If so, we don't know what those balances are. This would make more sense based on the denial verbiage.

There are also a lot of DP's lacking. The author stated his score was 847, but didn't state what FICO version that is or if it is even FICO. The author also didn't state what version of his score was pulled by WF. We don't know what his x/6, x/12, and x/24 status of new accounts was, or the number in inquiries on showing on the report WF pulled. We don't know his debt to income ratio, or if there was a previous negative relationship with WF in the distant past. There is a lot we don't know from the article.

Maybe there was something in his profile that didn't make him a match for WF. Capital One for example is known for denying excellent credit scores with many accounts because their target customers are good scores that carry a balance and have few accounts. This is an important point the author fails to make. Just because you aren't a match for one bank doesn't mean you aren't a match for 10 other banks!

I have found many subtle flaws in the advice and information given from credit card marketing sites like the one you noted, so just because that author said that was how it was doesn't mean that was how it was. I wouldn't read too much into articles like this.

Finally, I agree with @SouthJamaica - those boiler plate letters can just be excuses of denial for other reasons they will never tell you, so trying to interpret them is often in vain.

Good luck on your credit journey.

All of this.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

MrDisco99 — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 17:41:59 GMT

Reasons for denial are not always factual. I've had "too many recent inquiries" cited as a reason when I only had three HPs on that bureau in 12 months.

Being denied for having too many accounts reporting zero doesn't make any sense, nor does the letter actually say that. Sounds like the blogger is misinterpreting and speculating.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

OmarGB9 — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 18:06:17 GMT

@MrDisco99 wrote:
Reasons for denial are not always factual. I've had "too many recent inquiries" cited as a reason when I only had three HPs on that bureau in 12 months.

Being denied for having too many accounts reporting zero doesn't make any sense, nor does the letter actually say that. Sounds like the blogger is misinterpreting and speculating.

3 inquiries could be too many for a lender.

But I agree with the rest of your post that the blogger is misinterpreting the letter. In fact to me, it says the opposite - they have too many accounts currently reporting balances.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

Remedios — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 18:15:54 GMT

I've never gotten that denial reason, but it's a real one.

You can get it for having too many cards with balances or too few cards with balances.

As far as that being "The reason" vs "A reason", that's a whole another story because it is not generated by WF, it's generated by CRA

I've posted recently about my experience with WF pre-qual. I tested waters for months without intent to apply, I do it for science (*what happens when reported utilization is high*, *what happens when utilization is low but many accounts reporting balances* etc)

End result of my lil experiment was that I had prequal every time I had 5 cards or less reporting balances, they would disappear when more cards reported balance or fewer cards but higher utilization.

When I applied, I had a whole lot more than 5 cards reporting, reported utilization was relatively high that month, and I had no pre-qual, card was approved.

I don't know if the result would have been different if I didn't already have Propel (it gets decent use relative to the limit).

So, I'd look elsewhere for real denial reason, and while accounts with balances can be contributing factor, WF marches at the beat of their own UW drum.

As far as other lenders go, too many accounts with balances is more likely to cause a denial than AZEO (according to me)

Any denial should be looked at from what little is known about lender's UW practices and individual profile.

Mine "too many" or "too few" aren't same as someone who has 3 cards or someone with 30 cards.

Also, I find most blogs to be either selling cards or ranting about cards. When they sell cards, you'd think 0.5% cashback every other month is the best thing about to happen to you.

When it's a rant, it's "but, everything is glorious, how dare they deny me with my magnificent profile" (kinda like some posts here).

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

CreditCuriosity — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 18:44:24 GMT

Well not for science, but for greed as I was still spending alot of money on new house I applied for WF(last week for 300 bonus). First denial reason was for this exact reason and believe other one was excessive bank cards, etc.. Would have to look at the reasons. I have had two recent denials. WF and Also out of all cards Best Buy (too many new accounts, even citi retail is sensitive now). WF was denied at 807 TU(yes they hit me with TU) and soft pulled Experian. Best Buy suppose to hit Equifax hit me with Experian. All in all I expected WF denial as never been able to get in with them whether not behaving or behaving within that I considerable reasonable. I only carry about 250$ at any given time in debt on CC's out of 800kish in personal credit. Do they like that or not? I dunno, but one thing I know I have wasted 5 inquiries likely over the last 5 years trying to get a WF card to no avail. Reasons legit or BS I dunno, one thing I know they don't life my profile for whatever reason and that is fine other lenders out there. Best buy i really wanted due to first purchases 15% back and was going to buy a 77 OLED and sonos sound system for main room as would of saved me about 500+ dollars and denied. Added what 4 cards in last 2 months and 6 cards I believe in last two years. Alot of recent activity due to closing on house and going a bit wild. Might still try another lender as I like free money, but trying to find one that wil hit EQ only and PenFed I am tapped out with.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

Anonymous — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 18:42:21 GMT

I was denied a while back (2 years) by Wells Fargo for having too many non-zero balances. They explained that they look back six months and see how many accounts report non-zero. I forget all the details (as I burned down my house in rage) but from what I remember it suggested that AZEO would work best when it was always the same card that was non-zero, for the six month look back period.

But obviously others get approved with multiple cards showing balances, as in @Remedios post. My denial letter showed my score was 850 so that probably wasn't the issue!

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

CreditMarathoner — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 20:45:17 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
They explained that they look back six months and see how many accounts report non-zero.

How do they look back over 6 months when a pulled credit report is a snapshot in time? They would have to be soft pulling your reports monthly to do this. Were you already a WF customer at the time?

Also, the blog article doesn't give nearly enough information on their denial. Did they already have a relationship with WF? Maybe one that had been bad in the past? How many tradelines on their report? Were they all actually reporting zero, or just low balances due to paying statement balances? Is the 847 credit score FICO? Was it 847 at the time of application? Age of accounts, recent inquiries... so many unknowns... though 847 probably means good age and few/no inquiries.

I wonder if someone who has never been a WF customer, thus they haven't been soft pulling their reports, applies and gets denied, would still have the "six months back" verbiage.

Denial reasons are boilerplate text and the actual reason may not line up with the "reason" they choose to put on the letter.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 21:08:05 GMT

You can be denied for too much available credit. Some lenders may see the number of cards, the limits, and or what's being reported and decide you already have enough credit, or you don't use your available credit enough to justify an approval.

I didn't read the article, but was the reason code from CRA, or underwriting? Having to mail denial letters for my job, you may not always have something that matches, so you choose whatever is closest. Some denials will allow me to freeform, but usually there's a list to choose from.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

OmarGB9 — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 21:49:56 GMT

@CreditMarathoner wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
They explained that they look back six months and see how many accounts report non-zero.
How do they look back over 6 months when a pulled credit report is a snapshot in time? They would have to be soft pulling your reports monthly to do this. Were you already a WF customer at the time?

Also, the blog article doesn't give nearly enough information on their denial. Did they already have a relationship with WF? Maybe one that had been bad in the past? How many tradelines on their report? Were they all actually reporting zero, or just low balances due to paying statement balances? Is the 847 credit score FICO? Was it 847 at the time of application? Age of accounts, recent inquiries... so many unknowns... though 847 probably means good age and few/no inquiries.

I wonder if someone who has never been a WF customer, thus they haven't been soft pulling their reports, applies and gets denied, would still have the "six months back" verbiage.

Denial reasons are boilerplate text and the actual reason may not line up with the "reason" they choose to put on the letter.

While it's true reports are a snapshot in time, they still contain your payment history, and if you pull your full reports, you can actually see your previous month's balances and even your payments made against said balances. I have no idea if lenders have to pay extra to see that though.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

Anonymous — Sat, 27 Aug 2022 22:27:27 GMT

@OmarGB9 wrote:
While it's true reports are a snapshot in time, they still contain your payment history, and if you pull your full reports, you can actually see your previous month's balances and even your payments made against said balances. I have no idea if lenders have to pay extra to see that though.

Right, so from one of my cards on the CR:

Date Balance Scheduled Payment Paid
May 2022 $0 $0 $9,690 on 5/23/2022
Apr 2022 $1,123 $25 $418 on 4/13/2022
Mar 2022 $0 $0 $166 on 3/8/2022

so even when the balance reported as 0, the CR shows that there was activity leading to payment. Now I don't know if Wells Fargo was simply looking for 0 balances on each card for the last 6 months, or nor payment activity etc (well, they said non-zero balances, so probably that).

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

KillingThemGingerly — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 00:05:53 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Well not for science, but for greed as I was still spending alot of money on new house I applied for WF(last week for 300 bonus). First denial reason was for this exact reason and believe other one was excessive bank cards, etc.. Would have to look at the reasons. I have had two recent denials. WF and Also out of all cards Best Buy (too many new accounts, even citi retail is sensitive now). WF was denied at 807 TU(yes they hit me with TU) and soft pulled Experian. Best Buy suppose to hit Equifax hit me with Experian. All in all I expected WF denial as never been able to get in with them whether not behaving or behaving within that I considerable reasonable. I only carry about 250$ at any given time in debt on CC's out of 800kish in personal credit. Do they like that or not? I dunno, but one thing I know I have wasted 5 inquiries likely over the last 5 years trying to get a WF card to no avail. Reasons legit or BS I dunno, one thing I know they don't life my profile for whatever reason and that is fine other lenders out there. Best buy i really wanted due to first purchases 15% back and was going to buy a 77 OLED and sonos sound system for main room as would of saved me about 500+ dollars and denied. Added what 4 cards in last 2 months and 6 cards I believe in last two years. Alot of recent activity due to closing on house and going a bit wild. Might still try another lender as I like free money, but trying to find one that wil hit EQ only and PenFed I am tapped out with.

You mean for the exact reason phrased the same way in the linked blog post? To me that sounds like too many accounts were reporting more than zero. Or do you mean they denied you for having too many accounts reporting zero? If so do you remember how they phrased it?

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

KillingThemGingerly — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 00:17:53 GMT

So it seems WF could potentially deny you for BOTH having too many accounts reporting zero and too many accounts reporting over zero. The latter to me is especially silly if the accounts are just reporting nominal amounts that is what is left over from people that paid their statement balance in full (a lot of my cards may report balances of $50 or less).

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

CreditCuriosity — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 00:16:56 GMT

@KillingThemGingerly wrote:
@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Well not for science, but for greed as I was still spending alot of money on new house I applied for WF(last week for 300 bonus). First denial reason was for this exact reason and believe other one was excessive bank cards, etc.. Would have to look at the reasons. I have had two recent denials. WF and Also out of all cards Best Buy (too many new accounts, even citi retail is sensitive now). WF was denied at 807 TU(yes they hit me with TU) and soft pulled Experian. Best Buy suppose to hit Equifax hit me with Experian. All in all I expected WF denial as never been able to get in with them whether not behaving or behaving within that I considerable reasonable. I only carry about 250$ at any given time in debt on CC's out of 800kish in personal credit. Do they like that or not? I dunno, but one thing I know I have wasted 5 inquiries likely over the last 5 years trying to get a WF card to no avail. Reasons legit or BS I dunno, one thing I know they don't life my profile for whatever reason and that is fine other lenders out there. Best buy i really wanted due to first purchases 15% back and was going to buy a 77 OLED and sonos sound system for main room as would of saved me about 500+ dollars and denied. Added what 4 cards in last 2 months and 6 cards I believe in last two years. Alot of recent activity due to closing on house and going a bit wild. Might still try another lender as I like free money, but trying to find one that wil hit EQ only and PenFed I am tapped out with.
You mean for the exact reason phrased the same way in the linked blog post? To me that sounds like too many accounts were reporting more than zero. Or do you mean they denied you for having too many accounts reporting zero? If so do you remember how they phrased it?

I will have to try to fish the lettter out of the trash if still possible. I had one card reporting 250$, not many cards reporting balances if that helps you out. Doesnt include car loan and my mortgage loan since bought a house was listed as a reason as well not having a mortgage loan as yet to report. Honestly lenders pull reasons out of their pockets if they don't think you will be profitable as they got to provide reasons for Adverse Action. For whatever reason likely they don't think they will be used and that is likely that case after i would of collected the bonus.

Re: Being denied card for too many current accounts reporting zero?

Anonymous — Sun, 28 Aug 2022 00:58:49 GMT

@KillingThemGingerly wrote:
So it seems WF could potentially deny you for BOTH having too many accounts reporting zero and too many accounts reporting over zero. The latter to me is especially silly if the accounts are just reporting nominal amounts that is what is left over from people that paid their statement balance in full (a lot of my cards may report balances of $50 or less).

Yes, that was my case, small amounts on several cards after PIF statement balance. I tried to explain that to the WF person, but her only response was that I should contact the credit bureaus if I had concerns about what they are reporting.

So, no Wells Fargo card for me!