topic Re: Wells Fargo Bank in Credit Cards

Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 03:26:58 GMT

Recently Wells Fargo seems to have given a high SL for people applying for credit cards, why? They used to be stingy.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

GZG — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 09:54:36 GMT

If I had to guess, it's some combination of a desire to get 'more into' the credit card lending space alongside a desire to improve their brand image.

It might just be part of their CC strategy. They 'identified' "profitable" customers and their profits come when those customers spend big on their cards as a result of high CLs.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Anonymous — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 12:38:56 GMT

@AverageCreditsUser

Good point! In my past life I went back to 1973 with Wells Fargo and Norwest Banks and they were not very competitive.

Credit Limits were low especially Wells Fargo out of California.

Shocked by today's behavior. Up post may have hit the nail on the head.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Aim_High — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 20:31:42 GMT

@AverageCreditsUser wrote:
Recently Wells Fargo seems to have given a high SL for people applying for credit cards, why? They used to be stingy.

Welcome to My Fico Forums, @AverageCreditsUser.

Wells Fargo had a leadership change with new CEO Charlie Scharf in March 2020. One area he recognized that Wells Fargo needed to address was their lack of compeititiveness in the card arena relative to their overall size as a major US national bank. In the past two years, they've made major changes to their card lineup. None of their old cards are still available to new client. Meanwhile, they've introduced the Reflect, the Active Cash, the Autograph, and the BILT. Rumors are that at least one other card may be on the way.

I've also noticed the higher limits reported in My Fico approvals for Wells Fargo cards. There have been many at $30K and even up to $50K SL, which is highly irregular for their historical behavior so your suspicions are correct. I would imagine they identified low SLs as a factor holding them back from competing with Chase, Bank of America, AMEX, and CITI which were offering higher limits relative to profile.

For more information, you can follow >this link< to a My Fico thread from November 2021. I posted a few links in that thread to news ariticles about the transformation and there were hints about the names of the new cards. So far, the Autograph was a correctly-named leak from that list.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 22:39:43 GMT

@GZG wrote:
If I had to guess, it's some combination of a desire to get 'more into' the credit card lending space alongside a desire to improve their brand image.

It might just be part of their CC strategy. They 'identified' "profitable" customers and their profits come when those customers spend big on their cards as a result of high CLs.

Thanks for the reply. My thoughts are similar to your conclusion that Wells Fargo needs rebranding to rehabilitate its troubling reputation.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:57:14 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@AverageCreditsUser

Good point! In my past life I went back to 1973 with Wells Fargo and Norwest Banks and they were not very competitive.

Credit Limits were low especially Wells Fargo out of California.

Shocked by today's behavior. Up post may have hit the nail on the head.

Thanks for the reply. Wells Fargo is the most popular competing bank in California due to their expansion of branches with a huge volume of their customer base.

Wells Fargo partners with Citicorp and others to establish Interbank a nonprofit organization that licenses banks and other financial institutions to issue Master Charge cards and signs up merchants who will accept them for payment. Interbank also acts as a clearing house for transfers of funds among financial institutions participating in Master Charge transactions. It has been defunct since MasterCard was established.

Gradually, times changed. Post-acquisition and acquisitions, the big banks become bigger banks, banks are no longer regional banks, and their expansion spreads to all popular cities and states.

Wells Fargo no longer has the branch advantage that dominates the market in California. Today Wells Fargo branches are closing left and right due to digitization.

I've always thought of them as a conservative bank that issues credit application approvals for credit accounts with a low SL.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 00:19:45 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@AverageCreditsUser wrote:
Recently Wells Fargo seems to have given a high SL for people applying for credit cards, why? They used to be stingy.
Welcome to My Fico Forums, @AverageCreditsUser.

Wells Fargo had a leadership change with new CEO Charlie Scharf in March 2020. One area he recognized that Wells Fargo needed to address was their lack of compeititiveness in the card arena relative to their overall size as a major US national bank. In the past two years, they've made major changes to their card lineup. None of their old cards are still available to new client. Meanwhile, they've introduced the Reflect, the Active Cash, the Autograph, and the BILT. Rumors are that at least one other card may be on the way.

I've also noticed the higher limits reported in My Fico approvals for Wells Fargo cards. There have been many at $30K and even up to $50K SL, which is highly irregular for their historical behavior so your suspicions are correct. I would imagine they identified low SLs as a factor holding them back from competing with Chase, Bank of America, AMEX, and CITI which were offering higher limits relative to profile.

For more information, you can follow >this link< to a My Fico thread from November 2021. I posted a few links in that thread to news ariticles about the transformation and there were hints about the names of the new cards. So far, the Autograph was a correctly-named leak from that list.

Thanks for the reply. Thank you very much for your update on Wells Fargo. The recent change of senior management has really had a huge impact on new growth opportunities as it adopts a common strategy of competing with Bank of America and Chase. One of the things that attract new applicants to your product is giving out huge lines of credit.

Thanks again for the meticulous details.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

mfinsmi1 — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 08:26:15 GMT

and yet they still stingy for me as i have still be unable to get a CLI and ive been banking with them for 11 years smh

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Aim_High — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 20:57:03 GMT

@mfinsmi1 wrote:
and yet they still stingy for me as i have still be unable to get a CLI and ive been banking with them for 11 years smh

Sorry for your frustrations, @mfinsmi1. Give them a little more time. I have a few observations and general tips. Hope this helps.

I note in your signature that started rebuilding less than one year ago (Dec 2021) with FICOs 578 to 607. They use/monitor Experian and your EX scores are 707 (F8) and 694 (F9). While that's great improvement, you're just now getting to where scores indicate somewhat less risk.
You report a lot of active recent credit-seeking. (6/6; 9/12; 10/24) That's not good for any profile if you're seeking higher credit limits. Those high approvals had little-if-any recent credit seeking, if I'm not mistaken. (For comparison's sake, I usually recommend about no more than one new personal app every six months, especially with a new or rebuilding profile. So that would have put you at no more than 1/6; 2/12; 4/24.)
You've got four inquiries showing on EX alone, which again is the bureau they monitor. So even if they miss/dismiss the other 8 inquiries, four is a moderate level of activity.
The banking relationship may help with new card prequalifications or approvals with some lenders. But when it comes to how much they are willing to lend, it has almost nothing to do with it unless you've got mid-six figures or higher with wealth management. Credit limits and APRs are all about the risk associated with your credit profile.
While I don't know your spend, keep in mind that Wells likes to see some usage of their cards to give increases from my understanding. What is the current limit and how much spend are you putting on it per month/year?
What is your overall utilzation across cards? Even with high FICO, low credit seeking, and using the subject card, if aggregate utilization is high, individual utilization is high on any account, or if you're making only minimum/low payments on the subject card's balance, you might still be denied.
And finally, consider the impacts of your DTI (Debt-to-Income). When you report income/housing figures, lenders take those into account along with other debts showing on your credit report including mortgage, auto loans, personal loans, student loans, and credit card balances. Depending on their underwriting ratios, even if all the factors in the above paragraph are in order, the DTI considerations may lead to a denial.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 00:18:38 GMT

@mfinsmi1 wrote:
and yet they still stingy for me as i have still be unable to get a CLI and ive been banking with them for 11 years smh

Thanks for the reply. While I'm not a detail credit wonk as @Aim_High has an excellent analysis. I'll just add that I believe the banking policy strategy differs between Wells Fargo and Capital One, approving high starting limits or CLI based on individual credit profiles, Wells Fargo treats negative reports more strictly than Capital One. Some apply to Capital One got a $30K with a FICO score above the high 600, and Wells Fargo issued a higher SL at 720 and above within that FICO score range.

I don't think Wells Fargo is a subprime issuer of credit cards, whereas Capital One is more dependent on subprime borrowers in its customer base.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Jeffster1 — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 00:59:31 GMT

I have a relationship with WF going back to 1987 when I opened an account at one of the banks they acquired, First Interstate, as a kid. I kept WF through my many moves...and through all of my financial trials and tribulations...the good times and the bad, I always assumed I had a bad history with WF.

Prior to my Chap 13, I had opened an account with BoA. (Everything was reported to the trustee as I wanted to do everything the right way). My WF accounts were a mess with several overdrafts, but were in the positive when I filed. I assumed my "life with WF" was over, but I was happy wirh BoA.

3.5 years later, I emerged from the 13. I paid back 100 percent to all my creditors.

I kept my accounts open at WF, hoping, perhaps, they'd give me another chance one day. I was frustrated that that day would never come. I assumed I was on a blacklist. Whenever I'd check the pre-select tool. It came back IMMEDIATELY with a negative response. I gave up on WF, until last month when I pulled trigger on the WF BILT card. I was bored and playing fast and loose that night with my inquiries.

INSTANT APPROVAL for a CL of $30,000.

I almost didn't believe my eyes. I'm glad I didn't give into my frustration and close my WF accounts. They do appear to be trying to loosen up in order to be more competitive.

The 13 taught me many lessons, and I am a PIF guy. I will be treating WF and my BILT card well.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

AverageCreditsUser — Fri, 04 Nov 2022 02:45:15 GMT

@Jeffster1 wrote:
I have a relationship with WF going back to 1987 when I opened an account at one of the banks they acquired, First Interstate, as a kid. I kept WF through my many moves...and through all of my financial trials and tribulations...the good times and the bad, I always assumed I had a bad history with WF.

Prior to my Chap 13, I had opened an account with BoA. (Everything was reported to the trustee as I wanted to do everything the right way). My WF accounts were a mess with several overdrafts, but were in the positive when I filed. I assumed my "life with WF" was over, but I was happy wirh BoA.

3.5 years later, I emerged from the 13. I paid back 100 percent to all my creditors.

I kept my accounts open at WF, hoping, perhaps, they'd give me another chance one day. I was frustrated that that day would never come. I assumed I was on a blacklist. Whenever I'd check the pre-select tool. It came back IMMEDIATELY with a negative response. I gave up on WF, until last month when I pulled trigger on the WF BILT card. I was bored and playing fast and loose that night with my inquiries.

INSTANT APPROVAL for a CL of $30,000.

I almost didn't believe my eyes. I'm glad I didn't give into my frustration and close my WF accounts. They do appear to be trying to loosen up in order to be more competitive.

The 13 taught me many lessons, and I am a PIF guy. I will be treating WF and my BILT card well.

Thanks for the reply. Congratulations on your Wells Fargo approval! I was told that Wells Fargo chose the FICO 9 score for the credit application and you have passed the 720 thresholds for higher credit. Obviously, they didn't hold a grudge against you given that you filed Chapter 13 and paid off all the debts you owed them, plus assuming you also have a decent profile.

Recently, I've seen this high SL in the $20K to $30K range, which is attractive for people to apply for, and I'm glad you got the upper hand.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Anonymous — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 15:53:45 GMT

Wells Fargo is on a marketing push and trying to grow market share following a few years now of revelations about and fines for corrupt behavior: WF sales people opening accounts without people's permission or knowledge in order to earn commissions; failing to adhere to mortgage forebearance laws, thus forcing some to lose their homes when they didn't/shouldn't have had to.

While some of WF credit card products are attractive, I would never ever do business with them on principle alone.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

NoMoreDebt — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 16:53:32 GMT

I don't think there cards are as attractive personally as Chase's offerings but I did get an approval for the Propel with a $4700 SL with a BK7 still reporting and the only other relationship with them at time being a auto loan.

We did recently open a checking account with them to take advantage of a targeted offer they sent. So far no problems however we didn't leave our other banks which include Chase, a local credit union and Fidelity. I have come to just accept that any of them are not your friend and in hard times wont show mercy if you allow yourself to get into a position where your hard times leaves you owing them. I'm not mad, its just business I guess

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

OmarGB9 — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:25:57 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Wells Fargo is on a marketing push and trying to grow market share following a few years now of revelations about and fines for corrupt behavior: WF sales people opening accounts without people's permission or knowledge in order to earn commissions; failing to adhere to mortgage forebearance laws, thus forcing some to lose their homes when they didn't/shouldn't have had to.

While some of WF credit card products are attractive, I would never ever do business with them on principle alone.

@Anonymous I hope you realize they're far from the only bank that's engaged in some shady business practices.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

xenon3030 — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 03:40:00 GMT

WF is the 3rd bank in terms of assets while its credit card section needs lots of improvements to compete better in the market (could not find a good CC for the moment vs my other cards). Anyway, the huge CL can be quite enticing.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 04:21:48 GMT

Yes, it's true. No bank is without sin. However, the transgressions of WF are so egregrious (blatant and directly harmful to individual consumers) and the bank has beeen called a "repeat offender" after getting caught and not reforming itself that WF needs to be called out and avoided, imo.

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Jeffster1 — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 05:06:47 GMT

@AverageCreditsUser wrote:
@Jeffster1 wrote:
I have a relationship with WF going back to 1987 when I opened an account at one of the banks they acquired, First Interstate, as a kid. I kept WF through my many moves...and through all of my financial trials and tribulations...the good times and the bad, I always assumed I had a bad history with WF.

Prior to my Chap 13, I had opened an account with BoA. (Everything was reported to the trustee as I wanted to do everything the right way). My WF accounts were a mess with several overdrafts, but were in the positive when I filed. I assumed my "life with WF" was over, but I was happy wirh BoA.

3.5 years later, I emerged from the 13. I paid back 100 percent to all my creditors.

I kept my accounts open at WF, hoping, perhaps, they'd give me another chance one day. I was frustrated that that day would never come. I assumed I was on a blacklist. Whenever I'd check the pre-select tool. It came back IMMEDIATELY with a negative response. I gave up on WF, until last month when I pulled trigger on the WF BILT card. I was bored and playing fast and loose that night with my inquiries.

INSTANT APPROVAL for a CL of $30,000.

I almost didn't believe my eyes. I'm glad I didn't give into my frustration and close my WF accounts. They do appear to be trying to loosen up in order to be more competitive.

The 13 taught me many lessons, and I am a PIF guy. I will be treating WF and my BILT card well.
Thanks for the reply. Congratulations on your Wells Fargo approval! I was told that Wells Fargo chose the FICO 9 score for the credit application and you have passed the 720 thresholds for higher credit. Obviously, they didn't hold a grudge against you given that you filed Chapter 13 and paid off all the debts you owed them, plus assuming you also have a decent profile.

Recently, I've seen this high SL in the $20K to $30K range, which is attractive for people to apply for, and I'm glad you got the upper hand.

@AverageCreditsUser Thanks. I really thought WF hated me due to my history and their conservative history with credit cards but I was wrong,

There definitely was a change in strategy..

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Anonymous — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 14:59:52 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
Yes, it's true. No bank is without sin. However, the transgressions of WF are so egregrious (blatant and directly harmful to individual consumers) and the bank has beeen called a "repeat offender" after getting caught and not reforming itself that WF needs to be called out and avoided, imo.

I think part of the issue is that it is very easy to understand the wrong things WF did, opening accounts etc. But it's at least arguable that the real impact was much less than say (my favourite) the LIBOR fixing. This, by Barclays, UBS, Citi and Chase among others probably had more impact on mortgage payments. Other incidents, such as money laundering for drug cartels has other potential big bad impacts (Wachovia, now part of WF, and HSBC among others).

I guess one strategy is if you know a card will be positive to you but lose money for WF, then go for it!

Re: Wells Fargo Bank

Remedios — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 16:01:25 GMT

@OmarGB9 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Wells Fargo is on a marketing push and trying to grow market share following a few years now of revelations about and fines for corrupt behavior: WF sales people opening accounts without people's permission or knowledge in order to earn commissions; failing to adhere to mortgage forebearance laws, thus forcing some to lose their homes when they didn't/shouldn't have had to.

While some of WF credit card products are attractive, I would never ever do business with them on principle alone.
@Anonymous I hope you realize they're far from the only bank that's engaged in some shady business practices.

Thank you for saving me from listing shady practices by NFCU, BoA, Chase, Amex, Penfed, US Bank, Citi, Barclay, HSBC ..etc.

I should just save it as macro