topic Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking? in Credit Cards

Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Curious_George2 — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 18:50:55 GMT

I have one card from NFCU. I have PC'ed it a few times for various reasons. It has been a Flagship for a little over a year. For most of that time, it was pretty clear the card returned sufficient value to justify its $49 AF. I'm not sure that's still true. It seems to me the card's value is eroding, so I'm considering PC'ing it to something free. But maybe I'm being too impatient. I would appreciate feedback from this community.

Here are the ways it has lost value for me:

This card used to pretty reliably generate 0% BT offers for existing cardholders. Combined with Navy's policy of not charging a BT fee, these were awesome! These offers would come out around the New Year. I think they were marketed as a way to manage holiday debt. My understanding is a few years ago, these offers went to everyone. Then it was a small targeted set of people in early 2022. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't hear about anyone getting this offer this year.

Last year, I got an offer on this card to reimburse the full cost of Amazon Prime. I was an existing cardholder, and it seemed like it might have been a targeted offer. I think the offer ran through 12/31/2022. So far in 2023, I haven't seen or heard anything similar.

About a year ago, I got a 0% APR offer on new purchases for something like 9 or 12 months. Nothing similar so far this year.

Last year they ran a promotional offer in Q2, bumping the rewards on travel spend up from 3x to 5x. I haven't received any other enhanced rewards offers since then. The expired one is still appearing on my Offers page, which serves as an ongoing reminder that the gravy train has stopped running for me. To be fair, it's still possible they will run the same promo in Q2 this year and just haven't announced it yet.

If Navy has decided to stop giving out promotional offers on this card, it's going to be hard for me to justify keeping it. There are plenty of no-AF cards that get 2% back on general spend and others that get 3% on travel.

Are others seeing the same trend I am? Does anyone have insight on whether this is a short-term blip or a longer-term change?

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

1LostArk — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 19:11:20 GMT

They should increase the AF to $95 and add 3x back on dining.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

PullingMeSoftly — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 19:12:12 GMT

I've received an annual Amazon Prime credit of $139 for two years in-a-row (most recent one posted end of July 2022). That combined with consistent 6-month cli's of 8k (regardless of how high the total limit grows), the 3x travel category including transit, and being a reliable 2% base earner makes this a value keeper for me.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

GhostCredit — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 19:26:59 GMT

I was looking at Union Bank travel card, and I feel like that's better. It has a $50 AF, but gives accidental like upgrades, food in flights, baggage fees, 3x on travel on travel, 2x on restaurants, and 1x everything. No ftf. Comes with $200 after 1500 spend. The thing that I don't like is the flagship needs $50 min to cash out.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Anonymous — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 21:02:51 GMT

@1LostArk wrote:
They should increase the AF to $95 and add 3x back on dining.

Well plenty of free cards, including some in your sig, give 3x back on dining, so for many that wouldn't be a value add feature justifying an increase in AF

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

crystal626 — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 21:43:05 GMT

@1LostArk wrote:
They should increase the AF to $95 and add 3x back on dining.

Still wouldn't be worth having it when there are $0 AF 3/4/5% dining cards.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

mgood — Thu, 02 Feb 2023 23:40:49 GMT

@Curious_George2 wrote:
Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Ship sinking. I see what you did there.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

TheFIGuy — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 02:02:15 GMT

I'm still awaiting the ability to auto-pay from an external financial institution. It's 2023 NFCU lets get this done!

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

kilroy8 — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 02:19:46 GMT

This was never a great card. The selling point for a lot of people was the big SUB ($500 at one point) and NFCU CLs that grow big fast. Beyond that not much there. For me, I use Chase for travel costs, so the 2% is all I would ever get. Considering that I have loads of 1.5% cards with no AF, it would take $10K/yr in uncategorized spend for me get $50 more catback to break even. I don't have close to that.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Aim_High — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 02:57:36 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@1LostArk wrote:
They should ... ~~increase the AF to $95 and~~ ... add 3x back on dining.
Well plenty of free cards, including some in your sig, give 3x back on dining,
so for many that wouldn't be a value add feature justifying an increase in AF

Fixed it for ya' ... lol

Yeah, I agree that 3x on dining would be an enhancement but for the $49 AF, I think it would be a fair addition without having to increase the AF, unless perhaps they added other enhancements like better travel insurances or 3x in other selected categories.

@crystal626 wrote:

@1LostArk wrote:
They should increase the AF to $95 and add 3x back on dining.

Still wouldn't be worth having it when there are $0 AF 3/4/5% dining cards.

While I agree there *are* other 3/4/5% (or even higher cards), I don't think it's a fair comparison. Every rewards program has a different group of benefits or rewards. Those 3/4/5% cards may not include TSA Global Entry reimbursement, for example and they certainly don't include a flat-rate 2% on everything. Part of the beauty of Flagship Rewards is that it gives a decent 2% base on everything plus a higher return on travel/transit, so for those who don't want to carry a walletful of various rewards cards, it's more of a one-stop-shop card. And the 3% rewards that Navy has offered on FSR aren't capped like they are on 5% cards like the Citi Custom Cash. For some of us, a $500 cap isn't nearly enough for dining out including meals on business travel plus frequent dining out at home. That's why my go-to cards for dining have had upcapped higher rewards on dining as part of their core package perks and benefits. (AMEX Gold, Chase Sapphire Reserve, BofA Premium Rewards with Platinum Honors.)

But yes, I get 3% on dining and travel (uncapped) with my Citi Costco card and no AF except for maintaining a warehouse membership, which I would do anyway. Many of the cards that give 4% or 5% or higher without caps, including some that I use often for dining, have strings attached like high AFs as part of the package deal.

@Curious_George2, I totally agree with your assessment that Flagship's value is sinking. I did some research before I posted in >THIS THREAD< recently. I was unfamiliar with FSR until I came to My FICO a few years ago, but the card has been around for a long time in various configurations. It was updated to a 2% everything card somewhere about 6 to 8 years ago from a 1.5% everything card. At the time, both the previous 1.5% and the new 2% were well above the industry average. The last change was around 2018 when they added 3% travel. With the continued evolution of rewards cards, it's fallen behind from strictly a rewards standpoint since there are many cards that do 2%/3% without an AF. It's due for a refresh, either deleting the AF and/or adding rewards/benefits.

As I posted in that other thread, "... FSRs includes >some nice perks< for a very low AF card is someone doesn't choose to have a more expensive premium card that would cover these areas:

Purchase Protection for up to 90 days (damage, theft; limited to $500 per item.)
Secondary Rental Car CDW
Travel Accident Insurance (benefits up to $250K)
Lost Luggage Insurance (up to $3K per covered trip.)
Reimbursement for TSA Global Entry ($100 every 4 years) which could lower the effective AF to $24.

It's concerning to hear that BT and special purchase APR opportunities have been declining for you. I continue to consider adding the FSRs to my lineup but compared to some of my other cards, it doesn't make a compelling case in its' present format. My personal opinion would be they could either (a) delete the AF, delete the TSA GE credit, and make the card a 2%/3% card, perhaps make 3% include dining or gas or both, and lower the minimum redemption to $0.01 or at least no more than $25; or (2) maintain the AF and current rewards/perks, but then add some rewards/perks such as 3% in some other categories and/or better travel insurances. For example, Chase can provide primary rental car CDW on the Sapphire Preferred for an effective $45 AF ($95 AF - $50 hotel stay credit), plus baggage delay, trip delay, and trip cancellation coverages, so I imagine Navy could afford to enhance FSR benefits in some ways without breaking the bank.

I would expect to see some updates from Navy on the FSR in the next 12 to 24 months because of the above. A lot has changed in the past five to ten years.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Shooting-For-800 — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 04:18:57 GMT

I think it is a fantastic card from a fantastic credit union.

I just got my 2nd or 3rd Amazon credit which is almost 3 times the AF.

2%/3% catch all seems like above average to me especially if you have Savor or similar for dining.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Duke_Nukem — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 16:00:25 GMT

I applied and was approved for the Flagship about 1.5 years ago. Got the amazing SUB and free Amazon Prime. I had planned on PCing the Flagship down to the More Rewards or something if it didn't seem to be worthwhile carrying the $49 annual fee.

Like you, I received the free Amazon Prime offer to be purchased by 12/31/22. My offer came in June '22, so NFCU may still carry that promotion later on in the year. Maybe give it a few more months to see if the Amazon Prime offer reappears.

But none of our NFCU cards in our family have gotten a BT offer in the past 2 years (that's 8 cards amongst us). Looks like the BT offers have dried up.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Curious_George2 — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:59:14 GMT

@Duke_Nukem wrote:
I applied and was approved for the Flagship about 1.5 years ago. Got the amazing SUB and free Amazon Prime. I had planned on PCing the Flagship down to the More Rewards or something if it didn't seem to be worthwhile carrying the $49 annual fee.

Like you, I received the free Amazon Prime offer to be purchased by 12/31/22. My offer came in June '22, so NFCU may still carry that promotion later on in the year. Maybe give it a few more months to see if the Amazon Prime offer reappears.

But none of our NFCU cards in our family have gotten a BT offer in the past 2 years (that's 8 cards amongst us). Looks like the BT offers have dried up.

Sounds like we are in similar situations. My 2022 Prime offer came via email in June too. Thanks for pointing that out!

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

Citylights18 — Fri, 03 Feb 2023 21:51:34 GMT

I set my NFCU card up to pay prime just today for next March.

I'm not sure if it will work this time though.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

JNA1 — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 13:46:56 GMT

@kilroy8 wrote:
This was never a great card. The selling point for a lot of people was the big SUB ($500 at one point) and NFCU CLs that grow big fast. Beyond that not much there. For me, I use Chase for travel costs, so the 2% is all I would ever get. Considering that I have loads of 1.5% cards with no AF, it would take $10K/yr in uncategorized spend for me get $50 more catback to break even. I don't have close to that.

This is pretty much how I've always felt about it. In fact, even when the SUB was $500, I opted for the More Rewards card with the $400 SUB because it had no AF, and 3% on gas, groceries, and dining. I later PC'd mine to the Platinum card because we get 5%+ on dining, gas, and groceries. We also get 6.25% on travel on my Synovus Travel Rewards cards.
it would take the big SUB to return for me to ever really get value from the FSR.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

OmarGB9 — Sat, 04 Feb 2023 20:05:04 GMT

The lack of BT offers and/or large SUB could also be due to current economic situation.

Re: Is Flagship’s Value Sinking?

JNA1 — Sun, 05 Feb 2023 01:18:22 GMT

I got a 2.99% BT offer this month on my Plat card. The 2.99% is really no better than the Disco, PNC, Citi, Chase, and Truist offers with the 3% fee I frequently get - but it is for 18 months on a $50K card, so it isn't a bad offer, especially in the this climate.