topic Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance? in Credit Cards

Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Joleybear — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 09:45:13 GMT

I am preapproved for the AMEX Platinum, Gold and Blue Cash Everyday cards. I read earlier that AMEX does not give you a credit limit and your purchases are approved or denied retroactively. Is that true?

I did not realize that sort of Credit card exists and it sounds like it could lead to nerve racking, awkward or frustrating situations due to unexpected denial.

If you have had one of their "unlimited" cards, could you share your experiences related to large purchases and other factors, such as your reported annual income or FICO scores? The benefits of the platinum card seem phenominal, even with the ridiculously high annual fee and the Gold benefits seem pretty great too. I was offered a deal to receive 120k points after spending 6k on the platinum card or 80k points after spending 4k on the gold card. Thank you for any input.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Adkins — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 11:40:36 GMT

I had the gold card, and my SUB at the time was 50K MRs for only $1K spend. I still had one very old late on my file at the time and figured out quickly that the most I could spend without receiving an email or a text about being close to my internal limit was around $2K. I got tired of getting the notices and ended up cancelling the card. I opened my current Amex card to store my MRs. Amex is currently offering me 150K MRs for $6K spend in six months for the Platinum card and 90K MRs for $4K spend in six months for the gold. I'm not apping for either, as I'm not interested in dealing with the previous headache (although I'm probably ok now since my file is clean) and my lifestyle doesn't fit them. I have more than enough credit elsewhere and they aren't my focus right now. They usually take your average spend over several months to get your internal limit.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Beefy1212 — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 15:35:06 GMT

BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

fury1995 — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 15:45:53 GMT

@Beefy1212 wrote:
BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.

True, however I've had to argue with underwriters during physical review that try to factor the reported balance due into monthly DTI. It's frustrating!!

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Beefy1212 — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:27:47 GMT

@fury1995 wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.
True, however I've had to argue with underwriters during physical review that try to factor the reported balance due into monthly DTI. It's frustrating!!

Well it is a debt owed, FICO score metric or not.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

K-in-Boston — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:41:07 GMT

No Preset Spending Limit is not the same as Unlimited. There is a dynamically assigned spending limit, but the overwhelming majority of cardholders never know what this amount is and never have an issue with it. I've had Amex charge cards for 21 years and have never had a charge declined or been asked to make a payment to continue spending. As a rule of thumb, serious delinquencies appearing on your reports and/or previous unsatisfactory relationships with American Express are the most common reasons for bumping up against that limit. Spending amounts or stated income that grossly outweigh income information available to American Express, rapidly escalating debt, and introduction of new delinquencies can also cause this, although in many cases those result in a Preset Spending Limit.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

K-in-Boston — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:45:18 GMT

@Beefy1212 wrote:
@fury1995 wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.
True, however I've had to argue with underwriters during physical review that try to factor the reported balance due into monthly DTI. It's frustrating!!
Well it is a debt owed, FICO score metric or not.

I'm not sure if this was exactly the circumstance that @fury1995 experienced, but a case I did have was on my first mortgage when I owed over $50k in Pay Over Time balances to Amex. Charge cards always report the full statement balance as the minimum monthly payment regardless of any Pay Over Time or Plan It terms. For DTI calculations, I had over $50k due monthly to Amex at the time according my credit reports although my actual minimum payments were a fraction of that.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Beefy1212 — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:56:58 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
@fury1995 wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.
True, however I've had to argue with underwriters during physical review that try to factor the reported balance due into monthly DTI. It's frustrating!!
Well it is a debt owed, FICO score metric or not.
I'm not sure if this was exactly the circumstance that @fury1995 experienced, but a case I did have was on my first mortgage when I owed over $50k in Pay Over Time balances to Amex. Charge cards always report the full statement balance as the minimum monthly payment regardless of any Pay Over Time or Plan It terms. For DTI calculations, I had over $50k due monthly to Amex at the time according my credit reports although my actual minimum payments were a fraction of that.

Correct the monthly obligation would be weight against income to determine a DTI value, just like any outstanding debt.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

TheRedHat — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 18:38:13 GMT

I have had the AMEX Platinum for close to 10 months now. It is also my very first charge card. My income is borderline 6 figures and my scores at the time of approval was in the mid-600's. They gave me a POT (Pay Over Time) limit of $4,000, which I used as a guide for how much spend I would put on the card.

The card is okay. The warnings about future transactions possibly being declined and recommending I pay my balance down can be a little annoying, but I've never had a single transaction denied on the card yet. I'm cancelling the card when my next annual fee posts, because after using the credits for my specific lifestyle, the card still ends up having a $210 annual fee. I don't use the AMEX lounges. Domestic first-class airplane tickets and premium-class international airplane tickets normally include lounge access anyway.

If you do decide to get an AMEX charge card, make sure you understand how it works before you get yourself into trouble. lol

Edit: Although, there is a small part of me that wants to keep it open. I absolutely love using AMEX travel. I've booked hotels from California all the way to Japan and it was a very seemless process. Also, their customer service is outstanding.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Joleybear — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 19:37:46 GMT

You guys are all amazing! I've been really torn considering all of my options. I pre-qualify for a ton of cards and AMEX is very different from other cards I have, so I appreciate everyone's feedback and unique perspective.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

fury1995 — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 22:23:35 GMT

@Beefy1212 wrote:
@fury1995 wrote:
@Beefy1212 wrote:
BCE has a limit and is a Credit Card.

Green, Gold, Plat are not credit cards they are charge cards... You can check your buying power before a purchase to know if you would be approved. Once advantage of chrage cards is they are not factored on utilization meaning you can hide your spending from the fico scoring metrics.
True, however I've had to argue with underwriters during physical review that try to factor the reported balance due into monthly DTI. It's frustrating!!
Well it is a debt owed, FICO score metric or not.

Well, yeah. But it's not a fix monthly payment due every month.

I've had this argument more times with actual loan underwriters (and always win them) than most people have posts on this forum. I've got 30 years experience of daily submittals of loan applications for indirect lending which I've kept mostly to myself for the last 10 years as a member here.

You and I know the balance is due in full for charge cards and typically they ARE paid in full. When attempting to get someone a simple interest loan for example.. someone who is attempting to buy a car, the underwriter would look at total outgoing debt vs total monthly income. An underwrtiter looking quickly would assume that $1,000 reported balance on a charge card as a monthly payment due every month when making those calculations thereby reducing the available income to make monthly payment on the new debt.

If I charge $1,000 on my AMEX Gold Card and then pay the balance in full when I receive my statement (based on my terms of the charge card), AMEX reports that balance that was on the statement. My already made payment didn't reduce a balance on a larger debt, it eliminated that debt. It's historical at that point and it cannot factor since it's also a variable that can't be predicted. That's also why AMEX charge cards don't report avaible credit. An underwriter can't read risk when it's not known or reprted how much could be charged.

Make sense?

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

CreditMarathoner — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:12:38 GMT

I don't have any Amex charge cards, or any Amex cards at all for that matter. But I feel I'd find the NPSL a bit stress inducing since I wouldn't know what my limit is at any given time. I prefer credit cards with preset limits so I know where I stand at all times.

Other than for the travel perks/rewards the Amex charge cards offer, is there any advantages to them over credit cards? Besides the utilization aspect.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:29:32 GMT

@CreditMarathoner wrote:
I don't have any Amex charge cards, or any Amex cards at all for that matter. But I feel I'd find the NPSL a bit stress inducing since I wouldn't know what my limit is at any given time. I prefer credit cards with preset limits so I know where I stand at all times.

Other than for the travel perks/rewards the Amex charge cards offer, is there any advantages to them over credit cards? Besides the utilization aspect.

While it happens rarely, ANY credit card can also decline a transaction, even within your credit limit. To quote from Chase:

We may decline transactions for any reason, including: operational matters, the account is in default, or suspected fraudulent or unlawful
activity. We are not responsible for any losses associated with a declined transaction

As for your last question, for some that is the equivalent of the Life of Brian sketch I recently posted (What have the Romans ever done for us? and after multiple suggestions, ending with "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?") Travel perks/rewards and utilization issues are a major advantage. In addition, the cards can "grow" very quickly, more so than their credit cards.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

SouthJamaica — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 02:11:16 GMT

@Joleybear wrote:
I am preapproved for the AMEX Platinum, Gold and Blue Cash Everyday cards. I read earlier that AMEX does not give you a credit limit and your purchases are approved or denied retroactively. Is that true?

I did not realize that sort of Credit card exists and it sounds like it could lead to nerve racking, awkward or frustrating situations due to unexpected denial.

If you have had one of their "unlimited" cards, could you share your experiences related to large purchases and other factors, such as your reported annual income or FICO scores? The benefits of the platinum card seem phenominal, even with the ridiculously high annual fee and the Gold benefits seem pretty great too. I was offered a deal to receive 120k points after spending 6k on the platinum card or 80k points after spending 4k on the gold card. Thank you for any input.

1. The Blue Cash Everyday is not one of those no-fixed-limit cards, it's a regular credit card with a regular credit limit.

2. The Amex charge cards, like Platinum and Gold, have no fixed limit, but they are NOT "unlimited". There is a limit, they just don't tell you what it is, and it keeps changing, based on a multiplicity of factors.

3. My personal experience with the charge cards was not good. I didn't get enough value out of them to justify their high annual fees, and I hated always having to guess how much I could spend, at the risk of having a charge declined if I guessed wrong. For some people, though, they can be quite valuable and useful. I just wasn't one of those people.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Guyatthebeach — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 02:30:05 GMT

Joleybear,

I used to carry the Platinum card and canceled the card when I stopped traveling for work. I never had an issue with declined charges personally. I would normally pay off the balance before the statement cycled. There is a feature on the Amex app to check your spending limit. Your unlimited spend rate is based on your monthly charges on the card, your DTI ratio, and credit card account balances from SP's from your CR, from my experience.

I personally recommend the BCE card. It works for me.

Guyatthebeach

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

Beefy1212 — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 06:36:48 GMT

@fury1995 Yes, but now you also have to consider "plan it" and I don't think a 24 month historical balance reported is unreasonable to establish a pattern either. As K-i-B related he had a 50k debt and was making payments. That is perfectly reasonable might I even say proper to include in a DTI calculation.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

DrewfromTexas — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:56:14 GMT

I recently got the gold card in January and it came with a letter and at the top it said my pay over time limit is $50,000. I have the pay over time option enabled but pay in full each month so in my head as long as I don't go over 50k, which I never will, I should be fine. They send my statement and it may say I owe $1000 and my payment is $40 for example.

Re: Is AMEX Unlimited helpful or a hindrance?

MarkintheHV — Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:30:26 GMT

I have both the Platinum,God charge and the BCP preferred regular card. Never had a charge declined and my pay over time on the platinum is 35k. Once in awhile I will jump over to see how much of a charge they will approve, and last time it was 55k.

Personally, I love Amex.