topic Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....? in Credit Cards

Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Absolution16 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 01:44:59 GMT

I am anticipating to spend about $3K for some dental procedures overseas. Seeing as it is a relatively moderate amount of spending that does not fall into normal everyday expense, I have been contemplating about putting that overseas dental expense to good use by earning some rewards with a new card at the same time.

I admit I avoid applying for a credit card just for SUB. If I were to apply for something, it always had to have a long-term goal, in the interest of actually keeping it long term. But this time, it is surely going to be "JUST for SUB" only, if I decide to do this. Is this smart?

The card obviously has to be a No-FTF card. If I were to stick to something that I would like to keep long term and actually use it from time to time, a cashback card would be a better choice, but I am having trouble finding one that is worth the effort. $200 SUB is available in plenty of card products if I choose to persue any for normal everyday use, so I don't find those worth the effort. Above that amount, I am not really seeing much. Cap1 Savor comes to mind, but I don't want triple HP, and I don't really need the categories it covers.

So I was looking at United Mileage Plus. AF waived the 1st year, then $95. If I choose not to really use it anymore but keep the account open in the interest of utilization padding and keeping history, there is the No-AF United Gateway card that I can PC into? I would most certainly have no problem meeting the SUB requirement. I am also "already approved" with a predetermined APR (but not CL), indicated by one of those green stars. United is one of my favorite airlines, and I could always use those extra miles.

Speaking of miles, the SUB offered via the Chase website gives 50K miles, but this link offers an upgraded SUB to 60K miles. I am not sure if it would be more advantageous in being approved by going through the Chase's "already approved" site, or not. If it makes no difference, then I'd definitely use the 60K option.

I put my travel expenses on CSP. I don't really "need" a co-branded airlines card. It is not like as if I fly exclusively on United, either. But, seeing as I am going to be spending the $3K anyway, I thought... maybe... I could get some use out of that? And surely, 50K/60K United miles put to good use would certainly be more valuable than the common SUB of $200 that is floating around?

I'd like some advice and feedback from all you seasoned veterans out there. Much appreciated, in advance.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 02:06:51 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
I am anticipating to spend about $3K for some dental procedures overseas. Seeing as it is a relatively moderate amount of spending that does not fall into normal everyday expense, I have been contemplating about putting that overseas dental expense to good use by earning some rewards with a new card at the same time.

I admit I avoid applying for a credit card just for SUB. If I were to apply for something, it always had to have a long-term goal, in the interest of actually keeping it long term. But this time, it is surely going to be "JUST for SUB" only, if I decide to do this. Is this smart?

The card obviously has to be a No-FTF card. If I were to stick to something that I would like to keep long term and actually use it from time to time, a cashback card would be a better choice, but I am having trouble finding one that is worth the effort. $200 SUB is available in plenty of card products if I choose to persue any for normal everyday use, so I don't find those worth the effort. Above that amount, I am not really seeing much. Cap1 Savor comes to mind, but I don't want triple HP, and I don't really need the categories it covers.

So I was looking at United Mileage Plus. AF waived the 1st year, then $95. If I choose not to really use it anymore but keep the account open in the interest of utilization padding and keeping history, there is the No-AF United Gateway card that I can PC into? I would most certainly have no problem meeting the SUB requirement. I am also "already approved" with a predetermined APR (but not CL), indicated by one of those green stars. United is one of my favorite airlines, and I could always use those extra miles.

Speaking of miles, the SUB offered via the Chase website gives 50K miles, but this link offers an upgraded SUB to 60K miles. I am not sure if it would be more advantageous in being approved by going through the Chase's "already approved" site, or not. If it makes no difference, then I'd definitely use the 60K option.

I put my travel expenses on CSP. I don't really "need" a co-branded airlines card. It is not like as if I fly exclusively on United, either. But, seeing as I am going to be spending the $3K anyway, I thought... maybe... I could get some use out of that? And surely, 50K/60K United miles put to good use would certainly be more valuable than the common SUB of $200 that is floating around?

I'd like some advice and feedback from all you seasoned veterans out there. Much appreciated, in advance.

I wouldn't do it unless it's a card that's a long term keeper for you.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

wasCB14 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 02:38:45 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
I wouldn't do it unless it's a card that's a long term keeper for you.

But how do you know a card will actually be a long-term keeper?

Card earn rates change. Available transfer partners, award charts, and booking policies change. Protections change.

And that's all without actual changes to consumer lifestyles

- On the earning side, how much you spend and on what

- On the redeeming side, travel vs. cash back, how often you travel, where you go, basic vs. luxury, and who you go with

I almost always start with a decent SUB on a card. (And @Absolution16, I got 70k for United Explorer a few months ago, but I had to spend $6k).

When you start with a great SUB, you're in a good position to endure nerfs or other changes.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

xenon3030 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 06:23:59 GMT

Do NOT apply for a card only for SUB. It is not a good strategy. Apply for a card that you would use it for a long term or it would be feasible to PC it to another card, after its first year.

Having said that, you might review BOA Premium Rewards card. It has a hefty SUB and there is no FTF. It is a good tarvel card to have with effectively -5$ AF (95$ AF, 100$ airline credit) and it covers Global Entry (100$/4 years).

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Absolution16 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 09:23:59 GMT

@SouthJamaica

@xenon3030

@wasCB14

I appreciate the feedback from all you guys. Normally, I wouldn't even have thought about applying just for SUB. And my small collection of cards all do serve a purpose and I plan on keeping them too.

United Explorer is kind of a dead end once it fulfills its purpose of collecting SUB. Like I said, I don't really "need" a co-branded airlines card and I have CSP for my travel needs. Even if I were to downgrade to No-AF Gateway, it would still end up a SD card. Not ideal long term.

So as advised, I looked around some more to see if there are any other cards with significant amount of SUB, with a possibility of PCing into something that I would eventually use. Would either of these 2 cards work?

1. USBank Altitude Connect --> Cash+

2. Citi Premier --> Custom Cash

The Cash+ or the Custom Cash are on my very short list of desired cards in the near future. If those can be obtained via PC from either the AC or the Premier, I wouldn't mind missing out on the $200 SUB for those cashback cards, since the SUB for the AC/Premier are equivalent to $500/$600 respectively. That is, assuming that TYP and the USBank points can be redeemed easily at 1cpp.

I have read that Citi started allowing straight up cashback redemption on the Premier? USBank I know they let you at 1cpp with $25 minimum to statement credit. The categories covered differ slightly, though the AC waives the $95 AF the first year, with lower spending requirement at only $2K in 4 months, compared to Premier's $4K in 3 months.

I have no experiences with either of these banks.

Would this be a better route than the United Explorer route, assuming PC is readily doable with these 2 cards?

As a side note, the Altitude Reserve looks like a good card as a keeper; it may even work out as a total replacement to CSP in that the travel/dining annual credit alone covers $325 out of the $400 AF, as well as the TSA credit and 3x in mobile wallet purchases which look really attractive. Can an AC be PCed into AR? Spending requirement of $4,500 in 90 days is a bit steep for my taste, but the actual number of points in SUB is the same 50K.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 11:47:38 GMT

@xenon3030 wrote:
Do NOT apply for a card only for SUB. It is not a good strategy. Apply for a card that you would use it for a long term or it would be feasible to PC it to another card, after its first year.

That surely depends on your goals! If you are interested in getting some money/points, it can be a fine strategy. If you take reasonable care, such as not cancelling as soon as the SUB is met etc, nothing bad will happen, at least if you do it in somewhat moderation.

As @wasCB14 posted, you cannot know that a card will be useful to you long term, and, in addition, you cannot even be certain that a PC option will be available when you need it. So a nice hefty SUB can certainly be the way to go, even on a card that is inferior reward/protection/appearance wise to one you already have.

Of course, a big SUB on a great card that for now looks like a keeper is best, but...

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 14:30:04 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
I wouldn't do it unless it's a card that's a long term keeper for you.
But how do you know a card will actually be a long-term keeper?

Card earn rates change. Available transfer partners, award charts, and booking policies change. Protections change.

And that's all without actual changes to consumer lifestyles
- On the earning side, how much you spend and on what
- On the redeeming side, travel vs. cash back, how often you travel, where you go, basic vs. luxury, and who you go with

I almost always start with a decent SUB on a card. (And @Absolution16, I got 70k for United Explorer a few months ago, but I had to spend $6k).

When you start with a great SUB, you're in a good position to endure nerfs or other changes.

Of course you can't know whether it will change or not. For a specific definition of what I meant by "long-term keeper" : a card which you will enjoy and benefit from using on a regular basis, without regard to the signup bonus, based on its present terms.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

SouthJamaica — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 14:34:59 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
@SouthJamaica
@xenon3030
@wasCB14

I appreciate the feedback from all you guys. Normally, I wouldn't even have thought about applying just for SUB. And my small collection of cards all do serve a purpose and I plan on keeping them too.

United Explorer is kind of a dead end once it fulfills its purpose of collecting SUB. Like I said, I don't really "need" a co-branded airlines card and I have CSP for my travel needs. Even if I were to downgrade to No-AF Gateway, it would still end up a SD card. Not ideal long term.

So as advised, I looked around some more to see if there are any other cards with significant amount of SUB, with a possibility of PCing into something that I would eventually use. Would either of these 2 cards work?

1. USBank Altitude Connect --> Cash+
2. Citi Premier --> Custom Cash

I have and like the Citi Premier card.

The Cash+ or the Custom Cash are on my very short list of desired cards in the near future. If those can be obtained via PC from either the AC or the Premier, I wouldn't mind missing out on the $200 SUB for those cashback cards, since the SUB for the AC/Premier are equivalent to $500/$600 respectively. That is, assuming that TYP and the USBank points can be redeemed easily at 1cpp.

I have read that Citi started allowing straight up cashback redemption on the Premier?

That's true. The Thank You points are now redeemable 1:1 for cash. In fact, I haven't been traveling lately, so that's what I've been doing. Of course they're even more valuable when used with travel partners, so when I start traveling more frequently I will start going that route again.

USBank I know they let you at 1cpp with $25 minimum to statement credit. The categories covered differ slightly, though the AC waives the $95 AF the first year, with lower spending requirement at only $2K in 4 months, compared to Premier's $4K in 3 months.

I have no experiences with either of these banks.

Would this be a better route than the United Explorer route, assuming PC is readily doable with these 2 cards?

As a side note, the Altitude Reserve looks like a good card as a keeper; it may even work out as a total replacement to CSP in that the travel/dining annual credit alone covers $325 out of the $400 AF, as well as the TSA credit and 3x in mobile wallet purchases which look really attractive. Can an AC be PCed into AR? Spending requirement of $4,500 in 90 days is a bit steep for my taste, but the actual number of points in SUB is the same 50K.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Anonymous — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:17:25 GMT

@SouthJamaica wrote:
Of course you can't know whether it will change or not. For a specific definition of what I meant by "long-term keeper" : a card which you will enjoy and benefit from using on a regular basis, without regard to the signup bonus, based on its present terms.

Right, but you understand the depending on how you perceive the volatility of the environment, that condition may have almost no real value (compared to say, go for the largest SUB)

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

xenon3030 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 15:59:14 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:

1. USBank Altitude Connect --> Cash+
2. Citi Premier --> Custom Cash

Both should work. I have done the first one and several users could do the second one.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Remedios — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 22:49:38 GMT

@xenon3030 wrote:
Do NOT apply for a card only for SUB. It is not a good strategy. Apply for a card that you would use it for a long term or it would be feasible to PC it to another card, after its first year.

Having said that, you might review BOA Premium Rewards card. It has a hefty SUB and there is no FTF. It is a good tarvel card to have with effectively -5$ AF (95$ AF, 100$ airline credit) and it covers Global Entry (100$/4 years).

"Don't apply but apply for BoA"

Yeah, that's a bit of mixed messaging there.

When you try to dissuade somebody from doing something, you should present a compelling argument.

It should be the one that's grounded in some sort of reality, not a personal philosophy or some silly notion of SUB mortality.

So, if we are to have this conversation, why not?

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

ptatohed — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 23:04:20 GMT

I didn't see any contradiction with xenon's advice. I take it as xenon is recommending not to apply 'only' for a SUB, but also for a card one can benefit from, and then proceeds to recommend a card that might offer both to the OP - a good SUB and future card benefits.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Absolution16 — Wed, 29 Mar 2023 23:54:04 GMT

BoA advice was quite solid to me, actually. I understand the message conveyed to me; I should optimally look to apply for a card that will serve a purpose and be put to good use, rather than collecting SUB and tossing it in the drawer or trash bin. The BoA cards, unfortunately, don't interest me much and don't work out all that well for me, but I can see the value in them for the right person.

I dropped the idea of going for United cards, and verified through some hours of forum researching that both the Citi and the USBank route would work for me with an eventual PC down the road. Thanks to @xenon3030 for that confirmation.

I do, however, see the point made in how any rewards program or terms of condtions can be altered at any time. This means that a SUB that can be earned in a relatively short period of time is almost a guaranteed thing, especially if it is in the form of pure cashback and not in some points tied to the issuer or the airlines/hotels. I mean... just look at Delta and their series of devaluations lately. And oh whatever happened to Starwood Preferred Guest? Anyone say Bonvoy?

I feel as though any number of points earned through any rewards program are usually better spent earlier than to be hoarded and saved for later use.... which goes right along with the philosophy that makes earning SUB more desirable in certain situations.

But in the end, I don't have the guts to apply for multiple cards and hold 10, 20, or more cards to be juggled around, so I will continue being on the cautious side.

Having said that, I ended up going with USBank and now awaiting the 7-10 day letter. With my luck lately, I am sure it is gonna be another EX HP down the drain.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

wasCB14 — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:00:59 GMT

Here's why I like to focus on the SUB:

My last card, United Explorer, came with a 70k SUB (with AF waived the first year, and as a non-elite I also save $60 on bag fees per-person-round-trip). At a modest 1.2 cpp valuation, 70k miles is $840 in value. Assume I cancel or downgrade the card when my checked bag use falls.

If a person has a 2% card with no SUB and gets a 3% card for something they spend $3k on a year, it would take them 28 years to reach $840 in additional rewards.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:25:07 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:

I feel as though any number of points earned through any rewards program are usually better spent earlier than to be hoarded and saved for later use.... which goes right along with the philosophy that makes earning SUB more desirable in certain situations.

But in the end, I don't have the guts to apply for multiple cards and hold 10, 20, or more cards to be juggled around, so I will continue being on the cautious side.

Right, this is the earn and burn approach which many do especially with airlines moving to dynamic pricing etc. This doesn't mean redeem as soon as you can, if there is a 100K reward you don't particularly want, and a 250K you do, you might just have to take the risk...

You don't need to hold lots of cards, as you can close "used" ones after a safe period. In fact, you want to do this in many cases, to be eligible for a SUB on the same card [or family] again.

But just like most things, if it doesn't feel right for you, don't! Keeper cards that stay good are valuable as well.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Remedios — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:28:02 GMT

@ptatohed wrote:
@xenon3030 wrote:
@ptatohed wrote:
I didn't see any contradiction with xenon's advice. I take it as xenon is recommending not to apply 'only' for a SUB, but also for a card one can benefit from, and then proceeds to recommend a card that might offer both to the OP - a good SUB and future card benefits.
Correct. Remedios seems to have some problmes with my comments and without reading them completely, jumps into conclusion. She had also several issues in the past with my comments in this forum. She should attend some trainings to avoid jumping into such conclusions
Agree. Me too. We aren't the only ones. I think things will be better now.

Awww

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Absolution16 — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:31:03 GMT

@wasCB14

I like United. Their miles still hold decent value, unlike the SkyPesos that is now Delta. And not to mention no fuel surcharges and never-expiring miles with United.

If I were to ever even consider a co-branded card, it would be United. But in the end, as much as I like the 60K miles that I would have surely put to good use towards redemption, I am not gonna risk giving Chase any thoughts about entertaining AA on me. You just never know. I value the CSP and my follow up apps to come with Freedom card(s) too valuable to let them tell me that I am churning and abusing their rewards program or that I am not spending enough. They already forcefully closed my old Freedom once before.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Absolution16 — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:38:37 GMT

@Anonymous

I only have 5 cards that are about 7 years old, and 1 more that is approaching 2 years. Relatively thin file. The idea of earning and burning have always crossed my mind, but then with such thin profile as mine, I am not sure when it would actually be "safe" to even entertain the earn and burn strategy.

I agree with that dynamic pricing comment. Redeeming miles has changed a lot. Part of the reasons that I am stopping to collect MRs for now.... devaluation, lack of availability, super high fuel surcharges.... and dynamic pricing means a lot of the redemptions that used to be great deals are no more.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

Anonymous — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 00:54:17 GMT

@Absolution16 wrote:
@Anonymous

I only have 5 cards that are about 7 years old, and 1 more that is approaching 2 years. Relatively thin file. The idea of earning and burning have always crossed my mind, but then with such thin profile as mine, I am not sure when it would actually be "safe" to even entertain the earn and burn strategy.

By earn and burn I don't mean churning. You have some point earning card(s) and once you reach a desireable award, you use the points to claim it, and then start building up again with the same card(s). The alternative, which people still do, especially when Covid was making using awards difficult, is just to build up huge numbers of points, and plan, at some time, to use them. That way, you run into devaluations, and the slight possibility of losing the points if the issuer closes your card for some reason.

Unlike churning (which I also fully support) issuers have no problem with earn and burn, anymore than frequently cashing out a cashback card.

Re: Applying ONLY for SUB....?

ptatohed — Tue, 04 Apr 2023 01:03:48 GMT

I admit, there was one time and one time only I applied just for the SUB. It was too large to pass up, lol. This was maybe 3-4 years ago. It was the Cap One Savor Rewards, $95 AF, waived first year. The bonus was insane. I want to say $600? Got the SUB, cancelled the card, applied for the Savor One no problem.

There was my recent application for the Upgrade Elite for a card I don't totally need and I have to say the $400 SUB was a large draw for me. But I also did it for the future 2.2% CB everything in case AOD 3% goes the way of the dodo.