topic Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits in Credit Cards

CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Tacoloco — Mon, 01 May 2023 02:26:26 GMT

Was thinking about opening up one or the other. I really dont have much use for the card other than the sub.

My question is this. I know the minimum CL on the CSP is 5k and the min on the CSR is 10k.

I dont want a card with any limit below 10k. What are the typical starting lines on these cards?

And for variables: Current Ficos are all around 830. Income around 180k. Under 1% total utilization. Currently have all the Ink cards with total credit limit of 60k. 3/24. AAoA 5-17 years depending bureau. I have no other Chase products nor do I want any including checking/saving/loans, etc.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 01 May 2023 03:29:10 GMT

Max exposure with Chase is "typically" 40-50% of your income so you have some room. I would suspect regardless of either card your SL would likely be in the 10-20k range although just a guess. I would personally just go for the CSP as better value imho and sign-up believe is higher than CSR as well currently and way cheaper AF and still get primary rental car insurance, etc.

Hinestly with your profile being scores and income i wouldn't be worried about getting less than 10k SL. Either card can through a high SL at you. You aren't going to get a higher one just cause the AF and the 10k min on the CSR they will and do approve CSP in the 20-30k range

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Tacoloco — Mon, 01 May 2023 04:15:45 GMT

Thank you. This was helpful.

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
Max exposure with Chase is "typically" 40-50% of your income so you have some room. I would suspect regardless of either card your SL would likely be in the 10-20k range although just a guess. I would personally just go for the CSP as better value imho and sign-up believe is higher than CSR as well currently and way cheaper AF and still get primary rental car insurance, etc.

Hinestly with your profile being scores and income i wouldn't be worried about getting less than 10k SL. Either card can through a high SL at you. You aren't going to get a higher one just cause the AF and the 10k min on the CSR they will and do approve CSP in the 20-30k range

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

wasCB14 — Mon, 01 May 2023 04:34:37 GMT

So Chase counts Ink sole proprietor limits as "credit already extended" for the 50% of income threshold?

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Aim_High — Mon, 01 May 2023 04:37:06 GMT

While I generally agree with @CreditCuriosity, I'd like to clarify a couple of factors based on having numerous open and/or closed Chase cards for over 20 years.

I've often heard that 40% to 50% of income as a guideline, but it can vary widely. It appears to me that those higher ratios are at lower to middle income brackets and tend to become less significant as income rises unless spend is also very significant. After recent pay raises, Chase approved my last card and reallocated limits saying I had maximum credit with them, even though my TCL/income ratio is down to about 30%.

From my experience with Chase and other major lenders, there appear to be general approval "ranges" for each type of card. Better profile normally just nets you the upper end of that range. And the highest SLs are normally in the highest AF cards. The next bracket at the mid-AF cards. Then cash back and/or general purpose or low rate cards. On five Chase approvals in 2018 - 2019, my highest approval was on Sapphire Reserve ($35K) followed by Marriott Bonvoy Boundless ($33K) and World of Hyatt ($30K). I also had a Chase Freedom (original) approval for only $21.7K if I'm not mistaken and it was not my last application.

Bottom line: the higher approval for the identical profile would likely be the CSR followed by the CSP. But you should qualify for at least $10K on either, so if high limit is not a factor, either one will do. I would guess the CSR starting limits range from the $10K minimum to around $35K (I had 0/24 inquiries and new accounts, 800+ FICO, high income and got the $35K). CSP would be $5K minimum Visa Signature to probably about $25K. I don't believe I've seen a lot of CSP approvals over $25K.

And I agree that after the realignment of the Sapphire and Freedom cards a couple of years ago, the Preferred is a stronger card in many ways than the Reserve, unless you appreciate the Visa Infinite travel protections and insurance, VI perks and discounts, and Priority Pass Lounge access. (Or ... if you would like the option to redeem points in-portal with Chase for additional 25% value-added.)

And yes, the Preferred SUB is a better bargain at the moment - 80K versus 60K.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Aim_High — Mon, 01 May 2023 04:39:47 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
So Chase counts Ink sole proprietor limits as "credit already extended" for the 50% of income threshold?

Yes, I believe they factor in INK sole proprietor limits as part of the consideration. As I just posted, I was in the 40% - 50% range including INK limits but my credit relative to income has slowly fallen to around 30% as income has risen. (My usage of available credit has not been heavy.)

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Tacoloco — Mon, 01 May 2023 05:42:19 GMT

My Ink cards are under my LLC with EIN. Not sole proprietor. Same with Amex. I can wait for the sub on either card. I plan on picking up a second set of Ink cards for another company I have with its seperate EIN. Figure I'll just collect all the elevated subs as they appear.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 01 May 2023 11:50:16 GMT

@wasCB14 wrote:
So Chase counts Ink sole proprietor limits as "credit already extended" for the 50% of income threshold?

yes

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 01 May 2023 11:57:22 GMT

@Tacoloco wrote:
My Ink cards are under my LLC with EIN. Not sole proprietor. Same with Amex. I can wait for the sub on either card. I plan on picking up a second set of Ink cards for another company I have with its seperate EIN. Figure I'll just collect all the elevated subs as they appear.

Just keep in mind counts yo your total exposure with chase. If the sub is good on the Ink now you might just want to get the Ink first prior to CSP if just going for sub as won't count against 5/24, but will count against total exposure with chase. depending if you did that and Ink approval amount you might need to reduce limit on 1 or 2 chase cards to comfortable get the CSP/CSR respectively with ay your 10k limit threshhold. Just food for thought.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

CreditCuriosity — Mon, 01 May 2023 12:00:40 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
While I generally agree with @CreditCuriosity, I'd like to clarify a couple of factors based on having numerous open and/or closed Chase cards for over 20 years.

I've often heard that 40% to 50% of income as a guideline, but it can vary widely. It appears to me that those higher ratios are at lower to middle income brackets and tend to become less significant as income rises unless spend is also very significant. After recent pay raises, Chase approved my last card and reallocated limits saying I had maximum credit with them, even though my TCL/income ratio is down to about 30%.

From my experience with Chase and other major lenders, there appear to be general approval "ranges" for each type of card. Better profile normally just nets you the upper end of that range. And the highest SLs are normally in the highest AF cards. The next bracket at the mid-AF cards. Then cash back and/or general purpose or low rate cards. On five Chase approvals in 2018 - 2019, my highest approval was on Sapphire Reserve ($35K) followed by Marriott Bonvoy Boundless ($33K) and World of Hyatt ($30K). I also had a Chase Freedom (original) approval for only $21.7K if I'm not mistaken and it was not my last application.

Bottom line: the higher approval for the identical profile would likely be the CSR followed by the CSP. But you should qualify for at least $10K on either, so if high limit is not a factor, either one will do. I would guess the CSR starting limits range from the $10K minimum to around $35K (I had 0/24 inquiries and new accounts, 800+ FICO, high income and got the $35K). CSP would be $5K minimum Visa Signature to probably about $25K. I don't believe I've seen a lot of CSP approvals over $25K.

And I agree that after the realignment of the Sapphire and Freedom cards a couple of years ago, the Preferred is a stronger card in many ways than the Reserve, unless you appreciate the Visa Infinite travel protections and insurance, VI perks and discounts, and Priority Pass Lounge access. (Or ... if you would like the option to redeem points in-portal with Chase for additional 25% value-added.)

And yes, the Preferred SUB is a better bargain at the moment - 80K versus 60K.

Ya I am not sure what Chases limit is with you honestly and why they did do a reallocation? How long ago was this when they performed this? I would be curious also do you put decent spin on your Chase cards you already have? I would be curious since CLI's are soft pulls now if you could ask for one on each card and get it up closer the the 40-50% threshold. Might be good science.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Aim_High — Tue, 02 May 2023 23:12:24 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
I've often heard that 40% to 50% of income as a guideline, but it can vary widely. It appears to me that those higher ratios are at lower to middle income brackets and tend to become less significant as income rises unless spend is also very significant. After recent pay raises, Chase approved my last card and reallocated limits saying I had maximum credit with them, even though my TCL/income ratio is down to about 30%.
Ya I am not sure what Chases limit is with you honestly and why they did do a reallocation? How long ago was this when they performed this? I would be curious also do you put decent spin on your Chase cards you already have? I would be curious since CLI's are soft pulls now if you could ask for one on each card and get it up closer the the 40-50% threshold. Might be good science.

I guess you missed my two approvals and then the follow-up thread I started recently on TCL Data Points with both AMEX and Chase, @CreditCuriosity. I already had a LOT of credit with Chase, BofA, and AMEX. I knew about the $99.9K common TCL approval ceiling with BofA, unless someone has very high invested assets or very high demonstrated spend, and I had already reached $99.9K with them. Chase is actually my most generous overall lender with TCL of $144.4K including business and personal cards. (They approved me for a Chase INK Unlimited in February for an additional $6K in credit.) They are well in front of BofA's $99.9K. AMEX was my third highest overall lender with personal/business lines of $85K.

In March, I was approved for both the AMEX Hilton Surpass and the Chase IHG Rewards Premier Visa. The strategy in both cases was to not only take advantage of great SUB offerings, but also to "test-the-waters" to see if any further TCL would be offered. I was prepared that one of them might just reallocate existing credit but I was surprised that BOTH lenders approved my cards with no increase in TCL. (AMEX moved $25K from my Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant, leaving it at $50K; Surpass at $25K; and BBP at $10K. Chase moved $40K from Sapphire Reserve and $10K from Freedom Unlimited to leave me with CSR $50K; IHG $50K; CFU $19.4K; Marriott Bonvoy Boundless $10K; INK Cash $9K; and INK Unlimited at $6K.) The reallocation from both of these prompted me to start a thread on TCL with AMEX and Chase for community data points.

I believe I'm at a point with both lenders that unless I were a High Net Worth client or used a lot of those limits, I won't go any farther with them regardless of income increases. Similar to BofA's $99.9K cap, I believe they want to see heavy usage to go farther. In my case, I imagine I would have to put, say, $75K to $100K or more in annual spend on my Chase cards for them to think I need more credit since I'm already at $144.4K. That's more than I normally charge on (all) my cards in a typical year. Fingers crossed, but from my experience, my lenders have normally not CLD'd my cards from non-use very often as long as my FICO and profile supports the limits. But further growth seems unlikely. I think they both would approve me for new cards but would do so by borrowing from my other credit lines. My income may rise in the next couple of years and I might even get down to a ratio of 25% of household income. But that's okay; I'm grateful for the high TCL I have with those three lenders.

My Chase cards do see some spend but I've had several non-Chase SUBs to meet in the past 12 months that has diverted some of my spend to other cards. But I don't think it would have mattered either way based on my high limits and normal household spend. I had SUBs for an AMEX Blue Business Plus, CITI AAdvantage Executive, Chase INK Unlimited, and just finishing up my Chase INK IHG. But that means less spend on other Chase cards. For grins, I have tried the CLI request buttons since Chase started the Soft Pull increases but none have been available on any of my cards. Perhaps in the future, I'll put heavy spend on them for several months and see if they offer any more but I'm okay for now.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

CreditCuriosity — Wed, 03 May 2023 01:50:42 GMT

@Aim_High I just asked have you tried the CLI button on Chase application or did I miss that part to see if you can get them up although they took from your other cards during approval? I was just curious for well curious reasons unfroze my TU report logged in to Chase on my desktop and hit CLI on my Ritz card that was only sitting at 20k and they bumped it up to 30k instantly then re-froze report as that was good enough for me for a quick test and didn't take from other limits. Modest spend on chase cards around 2-3k/mo and my exposure with them is over 95k, which isn't as high as yours exposure, but nor is my household income(only me as my dog can't work ) but within the 40-50% threshold I mentioned. Might be worth a try if you want to check for science and it was a SP on TU. Obviously household payments, car payments and other things come into factor as well, but sure you are aware of that whole DTI thing, but think you are good there as well.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

mgood — Wed, 03 May 2023 02:38:54 GMT

On the subject of exposure, after adding the Amazon card I'm now at $44,900 total with Chase. That's 62% of my income. That's why I was surprised at the high SL.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Aim_High — Wed, 03 May 2023 18:30:10 GMT

@CreditCuriosity wrote:
@Aim_High I just asked have you tried the CLI button on Chase application or did I miss that part to see if you can get them up although they took from your other cards during approval? I was just curious for well curious reasons unfroze my TU report logged in to Chase on my desktop and hit CLI on my Ritz card that was only sitting at 20k and they bumped it up to 30k instantly then re-froze report as that was good enough for me for a quick test and didn't take from other limits. Modest spend on chase cards around 2-3k/mo and my exposure with them is over 95k, which isn't as high as yours exposure, but nor is my household income(only me as my dog can't work ) but within the 40-50% threshold I mentioned. Might be worth a try if you want to check for science and it was a SP on TU. Obviously household payments, car payments and other things come into factor as well, but sure you are aware of that whole DTI thing, but think you are good there as well.

Yes, @CreditCuriosity, I did mention it but I have tried the CLI button with Chase. Every time, I've gotten the "Not available at this time message." Funny that you brought it up, though, so I tried it just-now on my brand new one-month old IHG card and got farther in the process than I ever have since they started SP requests. I spent almost the full $3K for the SUB already and paid off $2K so far. They collected income information but then I got the 7-10 day message. So I'm thinking they will send me a denial letter. I'll update that here if it changes.

My overall debt is modest compared to income so DTI shouldn't be holding me back. In your case, I'd say get that dog out working to pull his weight! Lol

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Aim_High — Wed, 03 May 2023 18:32:04 GMT

@mgood wrote:
On the subject of exposure, after adding the Amazon card I'm now at $44,900 total with Chase. That's 62% of my income. That's why I was surprised at the high SL.

That's awesome, @mgood! I don't think I've ever seen reports of TCL exposure exceeding 50%, much less by that margin! Congrats!

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Horseshoez — Wed, 03 May 2023 18:46:25 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@mgood wrote:
On the subject of exposure, after adding the Amazon card I'm now at $44,900 total with Chase. That's 62% of my income. That's why I was surprised at the high SL.
That's awesome, @mgood! I don't think I've ever seen reports of TCL exposure exceeding 50%, much less by that margin! Congrats!

LOL, my TCL with Chase amounts to less than 5% of my income, and I'm okay with that.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

coldfusion — Wed, 03 May 2023 19:56:01 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@mgood wrote:
On the subject of exposure, after adding the Amazon card I'm now at $44,900 total with Chase. That's 62% of my income. That's why I was surprised at the high SL.
That's awesome, @mgood! I don't think I've ever seen reports of TCL exposure exceeding 50%, much less by that margin! Congrats!

We've had members report it before and I've commented on it previously a while ago. Basically while the 30/40/50% thesholds are reasonably accurate within a range of incomes, if you fall below that range but have an established history of sound credit management they will in fact sometimes extend past the 50% threshold.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

mgood — Wed, 03 May 2023 23:15:50 GMT

Further hijacking this thread

@coldfusion wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
@mgood wrote:
On the subject of exposure, after adding the Amazon card I'm now at $44,900 total with Chase. That's 62% of my income. That's why I was surprised at the high SL.
That's awesome, @mgood! I don't think I've ever seen reports of TCL exposure exceeding 50%, much less by that margin! Congrats!
We've had members report it before and I've commented on it previously a while ago. Basically while the 30/40/50% thesholds are reasonably accurate within a range of incomes, if you fall below that range but have an established history of sound credit management they will in fact sometimes extend past the 50% threshold.

When I got the CFF in May 2021, it was my highest limit.
Since then I've gotten limits well above that and was hoping that when I applied for the CSP this year it would be up there with my higher limits. I waited until I was below 5/24 and had been a pretty good boy for a while. I thought I'd probably get $16k to $18k but was hoping for more like $20k to $23k. I was slightly disappointed with the $10.6k I got on January 20. Nice, but not near as nice as I'd hoped. My Chase score was 861 (range 250-900).

On March 4, amid talk of SP Chase CLIs, I called in and got another $1800 on the CFF to bring it up to $10.9k. I was 5/24.

March 31 I got approved the US Bank Cash+.

But on April 29, I still had the audacity to ask for a CLI on the CSP. And got another $2100, making it $12.7k. I was 6/24.

These were good, but not great. I figured I was at the edge of what they were going to give me based on my income.

I had read plenty of accounts of them being more lenient on the Amazon Prime approvals. That was the first crack in the 5/24 wall, IIRC.

On May 1 I clicked the pre-qual and it said I was good. I'd done this at least a half-dozen times before but never followed through. I'm 6/24, have a couple of brand new cards, including one from Chase, and I suspect I'm pushing the limit of how much credit they'll let me have. From what I'd read, I thought I might get approved. But I was afraid it would be for a baby limit. So I about fell out of my chair when it came back with an instant approval for $21.3k.

I had spent $6k on the CSP in the first three months I had it, and paid back $4k so far. That was just SUB chasing, but they don't know that. Maybe that looked good to their computer and tilted the scale in my favor? Who knows?

I think they're pushing the Amazon card because it's newly refreshed (a little bit), and maybe they're still trying to get more of these out there to keep Amazon from going with another bank. I know there were rumors a while back about frustrations that people couldn't get the card because of Chase's 5/24 rule.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

Tacoloco — Mon, 15 May 2023 20:56:11 GMT

So I went ahead and applied for CSP. They gave me 18500 for a starting line. Pleased.

Re: CSP vs. CSR Starting Credit Limits

SouthJamaica — Tue, 16 May 2023 14:35:27 GMT

@Tacoloco wrote:
So I went ahead and applied for CSP. They gave me 18500 for a starting line. Pleased.

Congratulations on the approval and on the limit.