topic Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless in Credit Cards

Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 01:49:11 GMT

I've had my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless Visa for four years and I've enjoyed the card. I decided to close it when the AF was coming due for renewal. I'd still recommend it to others who stay often at Marriott properties and want a lower-AF hotel card for perks/status. I just thought I'd take time to review my experiences with the card and why I made the moves that I made.

The Bonvoy Boundless $95 AF is completely covered (and then some) by the value of the 35K-point annual free night and among other perks/rewards, it includes automatic Bonvoy Silver status with 10 Elite Night credits, 10% more points earned per stay, late checkout, and free wi-fi. This was my first hotel-specific card. It's a great card for earning Marriott points since it earns 6x points at Marriott, 3x points on gas-grocery-dining (up to $6K annual cap), and 2x points on everything else.

Since I got the Boundless, I decided to go for an upgraded Marriott card and added the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant. While the AF is much higher at $650, I am credited $300 back ($25 monthly) on any restaurant charges and the annual free night included is worth a much higher 85K points. (Last year, DW and I stayed in a $750-per-night room with those points.) Plus it includes automatic Platinum status with additional perks and 25 elite night credits. All-in-all, the Brilliant delivered even more value in my situation.

While I could have kept the older Chase Boundless, I decided I would rather focus my Marriott spending on the Brilliant. The Boundless was mainly valuable for the excess room value of the free night over the $95 AF. ~~But free nights aren't credited towards elite status, so that "pre-paid" free night wasn't helping me to elevate to Titanium~~. *Correction per @K-in-Boston; see postings below.

I also considered a product-change to the Chase Ritz Carlton Visa Infinite. Ritz Carlton is now in the Marriott portfolio of hotels. Originally, the Chase Ritz Carlton and AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant were very similar cards in terms of elite status, fees, and perks. The Ritz Carlton is not available to new applicants now, but cardholders with a Bonvoy Boundless card can product-change to Ritz Carlton after one year. The AF is grandfathered at the old AF for AMEX Brilliant ($450), it offers similarly excellent travel protections that are found on the Chase Sapphire Reserve Visa Infinite, and the free night was upgraded from 50K points to 85K points when the Brilliant card program was changed. Most notably, the Ritz Carlton card offered JP Morgan Customer Service/Concierge and access to some upgrades to Club Level at Ritz Carlton properties. Overall, though, I saw too much overlap with my Chase Sapphire Reserve and AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant, so I felt I was better served with those other two cards when it came to Marriott.

I did recently add the AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Business card for one primary reason. Marriott allows the automatic credit of (15) Elite nights of the Bonvoy Business to stack with the (25) Elite nights of the personal Bonvoy Business, so these two cards together give (40) total nights combined with the automatic Platinum status. That means the next-higher Titanium status is only (35) nights away since it normally requires 75 annual paid nights without the credit cards. Similar to the Chase Boundless, Bonvoy Business includes an annual free night worth 35K points to offset the $125 AF. It also includes a 7% discount off of standard Marriott rates.

Since Chase had moved $10K in credit limit from my Freedom Unlimited when approving my IHG Rewards Premier card in March, I moved the $10K CL from Marriott Bonvoy Boundless back to Freedom Unlimited. Since I hadn't used the card in six months and there was no card activity in that time (including AF posting), I was able to move my entire $10K CL instead of having to surrender some on the closed card. (This is something I've learned that may work with Chase if you want to be able to move an entire limit to another card.)

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

BigBS — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 22:27:13 GMT

Thanks for that information! I think your strategy and decision was perfect.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

K-in-Boston — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 23:24:20 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
...
While I could have kept the older Chase Boundless, I decided I would rather focus my Marriott spending on the Brilliant. The Boundless was mainly valuable for the excess room value of the free night over the $95 AF. But free nights aren't credited towards elite status, so that "pre-paid" free night wasn't helping me to elevate to Titanium.
...

I assure you that award redemptions, which includes redemption of free night certificates (from credit cards or as choice benefits) and the 5th free night when redeeming 5 or more nights (or 10th, 15th, etc. up to the 30 night cap for a single stay) count as qualifying nights in the Marriott system. They do not count for most bonus elite nights and extra points promotions, however, as those typically require paid stays. I've been about a 50/50 split between paid and award stays (including free night certs) since I first signed up with Starwood and Marriott.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Sun, 02 Jul 2023 23:57:43 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
But free nights aren't credited towards elite status, so that "pre-paid" free night wasn't helping me to elevate to Titanium.
I assure you that award redemptions, which includes redemption of free night certificates (from credit cards or as choice benefits) and the 5th free night when redeeming 5 or more nights (or 10th, 15th, etc. up to the 30 night cap for a single stay) count as qualifying nights in the Marriott system. They do not count for most bonus elite nights and extra points promotions, however, as those typically require paid stays. I've been about a 50/50 split between paid and award stays (including free night certs) since I first signed up with Starwood and Marriott.

Thanks for the clarification, @K-in-Boston. Maybe I misread it, or maybe I had one that wasn't properly credited, but I thought my "free nights" weren't being added to my night-stay credits. But you differentiate between "bonus elite nights" and "qualifying nights" so maybe I still need further explanation. When I open my Marriott app and see the "Nights this Year" tally, you're saying that my redeemed free nights should be included in that total?

I got the (25) from the Bonvoy Brilliant and then additional (15) from Business. Then after (10) paid nights, got the (+5) Choice Award, which bumped me up to 55. Then with additional stay credits, I'm at 69 nights now. So am I correct in saying that I should roll over to Titanium if I stay and/or redeem free nights for six or more nights this year?

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

K-in-Boston — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 00:51:27 GMT

It's possible that your stay wasn't credited. You should also have received your points welcome gift upon check-in, unless you chose a food and beverage credit. Does the stay appear in Account Activity tab? If so, it should be credited and would show the welcome gift along with points earned for any additional room charges. If not, you should submit a claim for credit. I used two free night certificates (35k from business card and 40k from last year's 75 night choice benefit) a matter of weeks ago and was properly credited, so this definitely isn't something that changed.

Qualifying Nights (for annual and lifetime elite status) would be paid nights, redeemed nights, promotional, credit card, and events. "Bonus elite nights" refers to a fairly common Marriott targeted promotion where you earn 1 bonus elite night credit for each night stayed between two dates, so for instance if you have 5 nights paid during the period, you would earn 5 Paid nights and 5 Promotional nights. (I had it earlier this year, but unfotunately had no travel during the promo period; most of my travel will be at the end of the year which isn't typical for me.) If you click "Nights this year" in the app or on the website, you should see every night that counts. I'll drop a screenshot of my 2022 below since it shows activity in every category except for Events.

Yes, any 6 nights paid, redeemed with points, or redeemed with free night certificates would get you to 75 nights.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 01:12:04 GMT

@K-in-Boston wrote:
It's possible that your stay wasn't credited. You should also have received your points welcome gift upon check-in, unless you chose a food and beverage credit. Does the stay appear in Account Activity tab? If so, it should be credited and would show the welcome gift along with points earned for any additional room charges. If not, you should submit a claim for credit. I used two free night certificates (35k from business card and 40k from last year's 75 night choice benefit) a matter of weeks ago and was properly credited, so this definitely isn't something that changed.

Qualifying Nights (for annual and lifetime elite status) would be paid nights, redeemed nights, promotional, credit card, and events. "Bonus elite nights" refers to a fairly common Marriott targeted promotion where you earn 1 bonus elite night credit for each night stayed between two dates, so for instance if you have 5 nights paid during the period, you would earn 5 Paid nights and 5 Promotional nights. (I had it earlier this year, but unfotunately had no travel during the promo period; most of my travel will be at the end of the year which isn't typical for me.) If you click "Nights this year" in the app or on the website, you should see every night that counts. I'll drop a screenshot of my 2022 below since it shows activity in every category except for Events.

Yes, any 6 nights paid, redeemed with points, or redeemed with free night certificates would get you to 75 nights.

Thanks for that clarification and screen shot, @K-in-Boston. I may have gotten the issue confused because the last free night I redeemed, I stayed two nights at the same property. To separate the two methods of payment, I made two reservations - one with free night and another one paid. Then I contacted the hotel to link the two together so I could just stay in the same room. Maybe I over-complicated things. So when the night stays were credited, each night showed up separately but I thought I was just credited for the paid night. I see them both now.

Up until AMEX revamped the Brilliant to (25) nights and automatic Platinum Elite, and until I got the (15) nights from business, I was automatic Silver, Gold, or Platinum and not getting close to the next tier so I may not have been paying as close of attention as I am now. I appreciate the clarification. I know you are our resident Marriott expert!

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

danzig47 — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 20:04:19 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:

The Ritz Carlton is not available to new applicants now, but cardholders with a Bonvoy Boundless card can product-change to Ritz Carlton after one year.

I thought that they stopped allowing a PC to the Ritz Carlton after the Bountiful was introduced? Anyone tried it recently?

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

PullingMeSoftly — Mon, 03 Jul 2023 21:11:27 GMT

Informative discussion @Aim_High, thanks for detailing your experience and rationale for the card closure. I've been eyeing the Marriott product line from a distance, even though I've been somewhat of a Hilton loyalist, and the Brilliant in particular has my interest. Wondering though, do you think the Ritz card might have been handy for the 85k free night cert? Thinking that that could have been paired with the Brilliant's free night, and then the $300 incidentals credit may have been useful. Regardless, you've got a nice setup with the Brilliant and business card with a headstart on Titanium elite, I'm jelly

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 22:26:23 GMT

@danzig47 wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
The Ritz Carlton is not available to new applicants now, but cardholders with a Bonvoy Boundless card can product-change to Ritz Carlton after one year.
I thought that they stopped allowing a PC to the Ritz Carlton after the Bountiful was introduced? Anyone tried it recently?

The Ritz Carlton card *IS* still available for product change after holding the Bonvoy Boundless for one year, even after the release of the Bonvoy Bountiful, @danzig47.

I called Chase Customer Service about two weeks before I closed the Boundless and specifically asked if my card was eligible for PC to the Ritz Carlton. The rep immediately and cheerfully answered that, yes it was! Still, I elected to just close it due to what I saw as the trade-offs for the upgrade.

I also know of at least three of our members who have PC'd in the past twelve or so months. @CreditCuriosity posted in September 2022 - See >THIS< thread. @BronzeTrader posted in this thread. And @1LostArk posted about >PC in May 2023<.

There (MAY) be no avenue to upgrade from the *BOLD* (no AF card) but the *Boundless* ($95 AF card) still seems to be working.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 04:59:30 GMT

@PullingMeSoftly wrote:
Informative discussion @Aim_High, thanks for detailing your experience and rationale for the card closure. I've been eyeing the Marriott product line from a distance, even though I've been somewhat of a Hilton loyalist, and the Brilliant in particular has my interest. Wondering though, do you think the Ritz card might have been handy for the 85k free night cert? Thinking that that could have been paired with the Brilliant's free night, and then the $300 incidentals credit may have been useful. Regardless, you've got a nice setup with the Brilliant and business card with a headstart on Titanium elite, I'm jelly

Thanks, @PullingMeSoftly. I've wrung my hands a lot over product-changing into the Ritz Carlton for the past three or more years, much more than I alluded to in my intro posting. I know there are some of our members who really want the R/C card. There were definitely pro's and con's in my opinion. Could I have gotten value from it, even with the $450 AF? Absolutely! But the other side of the equation is that it adds (or retains) another card in my lineup, while I'm waffling over adding cards or simplifying over the long term. I don't want to carry a ton of cards, and I dislike having cards that don't fit into a natural "niche" in my normal spending. Here are some of my considerations:

When I applied for the AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant, it was the true "sister card" of the Ritz Carlton; while it still is in some ways, it is less-so after Marriot realigned their card programs in 2022. Prior to that, the AFs were both $450, they both inferred automatic Gold status, both paid similar rewards in Bonvoy points, and many perks were the same. I had been looking for an AMEX card that worked naturally for me, and I felt the Brilliant was that card, moreso than their charge cards or cash back cards. Meanwhile, the R/C overlapped many of the Visa Infinite perks I was receiving on my Chase Sapphire Reserve, and which I highly value. I saw a R/C card as potentially cannibalizing my CSR spend. Meanwhile, getting the AMEX Brilliant gave me some of the same coverages through AMEX that I get on my CSR such as Extended Warranty, Return Protection, Purchase Protection, Priority Pass, and TSA Global Entry credit so I was adding another provider to insulate against benefit nerfs. In the end, Brilliant won over pc to Ritz Carlton and I didn't desire two $450 AF cards at that time.
With AMEX Brilliant, there were $300 automatic credits against the AF, first for Marriott charges and after the upgrade for restaurant charges. I love automatic credits, and Chase does the same on CSR for the $300 travel charges. However, R/C credits have to be requested; that was a negative for me, as more to keep track of and manage to optimize value-added.
AMEX Brilliant had what I saw were more practical credits; under the old program they were for Marriott spend and on the updated program for restaurants, any properly MCC-coded restaurant. R/C has $300 in airline fee credits, and I don't pay a lot of airline fees. (Later, I learned through CreditCuriosity that buying AA gift cards is still possible, but I thought that work-around had been cut off.)
My AMEX Brilliant gives me a higher elite status (Platinum) than I would earn with R/C (Gold) and it gives me more elite night credits. So R/C isn't adding anything to my Marriott elite status except for Ritz Carlton-specific benefits. (See below.)
R/C has the "Club Level" upgrades on longer stays. The negative: I had heard the availability might vary so not always a benefit.
While I've stayed at some upper level hotels including within the Marriott brand, I've never actually stayed at a R/C. If this was a frequent brand for me, it would have been more practical. While I have paid a lot for a room, I just don't normally spend $500 to $1000+ for a one-night hotel room, and that's about where most of the R/C rooms begin. So this is another reason that the R/C benefits like club upgrades were not a huge draw anyway.
Yes, even without the airline fee credit, the 85K point night probably would have more than reimbursed my $450 AF. But more than once with various hotel cards, I've found myself with a "free night" award nearing expiration and looking for a room for the best value before I lose it. I found that it's not always easy to spend the full 85K points based on my travels, and of course if I am using less than the full points the value I'm getting for the free night is likely reduced.
Like my AMEX Brilliant, the R/C earns Bonvoy points. I didn't want too many cards earning that currency as I like to diversify my rewards. IMO, one card earning Bonvoy points in my wallet is enough, but I made an exception adding the AMEX Bonvoy Business since it allows me to stack (+15) night credits and has the same 35K free night as the Boundless. As opposed to the Ritz-Carlton card, giving my Chase Sapphire Reserve priority as my "Visa Infinite" in-wallet meant that I could earn more-flexible UR points while also earning Bonvoy on the Brilliant as I saw fit.
At one time, the Ritz Carlton card was the heaviest credit card available. I might have been tempted to carry and swipe it out of ego. A couple of years ago, they turned it into a hybrid plastic-metal sandwich card similar to CSR and other premium cards. (Meanwhile, my Brilliant is actually a heavier metal card now at 15 grams, same as an AMEX GOLD.) For this and all the reasons above, I probably would have left the R/C card at home in the sock drawer in lieu of carrying/using my other cards. It would have been retained mainly for that free night.
I already have more cards than I want to keep for the long-term. As I have closed some, I've also added some back into the mix. I'm still looking for my sweet spot in number/type of cards. I saw my Boundless card as fairly easy to cut.
One reason I added the Boundless card to begin with was to build my Chase credit limits, not to keep all the cards. I can see myself with a high-limit CSR and a CFU carrying the bulk of my Chase credit and giving me a simple two-card wallet for Chase if I choose to do so. (My two-card combos that I've discussed allow a nod to rewards optimization with an overall focus on simplicity.) As I've said in the past, I don't (and I won't) carry 15-20+ cards at once. I already have a lot of cards that get duty in the sock-drawer, and my wallet is still over-stuffed!

Proabably the biggest reason beyond the free night value that I would have valued the R/C card would have been access to JP Morgan Customer Service/Concierge, same as the JP Morgan Reserve card clients. It's a level above my Sapphire and I might have occasionally enjoyed that level of service. But for all the above reasons, I made the "practical" decision and decided it was best to bypass the Ritz Carlton card.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

FireMedic1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 18:43:38 GMT

Decisions decisions. Hope you get what you want. Threads like pickig up apples. Which on is the redest.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 18:56:39 GMT

@FireMedic1 wrote:
Decisions decisions. Hope you get what you want. Threads like pickig up apples. Which on is the redest.

Yeah, there's so many ways to "play your cards," @FireMedic1.

I think I did the right thing for just closing it. I'm trying to focus mostly on cards that I will carry and use regularly. The Marriott Boundless and/or Ritz Carlton were both worthy cards to have, but the scales tipped when I considered how either would affect my use of other cards like my AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant or Chase Sapphire Reserve. So in your analogy, better to have a handful of big, red, juicy apples than a bushel of smaller ones.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

FireMedic1 — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:10:48 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@FireMedic1 wrote:
Decisions decisions. Hope you get what you want. Threads like pickig up apples. Which on is the redest.
Yeah, there's so many ways to "play your cards," @FireMedic1.

I think I did the right thing for just closing it. I'm trying to focus mostly on cards that I will carry and use regularly. The Marriott Boundless and/or Ritz Carlton were both worthy cards to have, but the scales tipped when I considered how either would affect my use of other cards like my AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant or Chase Sapphire Reserve. So in your analogy, better to have a handful of big, red, juicy apples than a bushel of smaller ones.

Thought I'd throw out a little funny line. Your back and forth which way to go and the way you eloquently post is cool.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:32:59 GMT

I think this thread should be interesting (positively and negatively) to those that just don't
"get" points, or AF cards for that matter. You would rarely see such thought needed for cashback cards, where decisions might be more obvious ("I'm eating out less and buying groceries more, so I should probably switch to.....") Point systems need more thought, reflecting that properly used they can be much more valuable.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Thu, 06 Jul 2023 18:04:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I think this thread should be interesting (positively and negatively) to those that just don't
"get" points, or AF cards for that matter. You would rarely see such thought needed for cashback cards, where decisions might be more obvious ("I'm eating out less and buying groceries more, so I should probably switch to.....") Point systems need more thought, reflecting that properly used they can be much more valuable.

Great point, @Anonymous. For the right profile and spending patterns, travel cards can be much more lucrative than cash back, but for the wrong profile and spend, they can be a huge hole-in-your pocket. Moreso, the complexity of them is high with annual fees, credits against those fees, perks, and the value of points for redemption which isn't a fixed value like cash back. And then, whether the consumer will naturally and organically take advantage of those credits and perks enough to tilt the valuation scales.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

randomguy1 — Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:28:25 GMT

I may have missed this but another perk of the RC card is the unlimited guests for Priority Pass lounges. While this is subject to the lounge being full, I haven't had an issue getting two additional guests in.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

redpat — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:27:20 GMT

This year I jumped of the hotel hamster wheel and for all my business stays have been using Chase's travel portal for 10x using my CSR and reimbursing myself. The employees book their own w/ ink+, didn't want to be greedy, lol. I finally burned the rest of my Hilton points and closed that card.

I have been transferring points to Hyatt lately and some of my Marriott and Hilton redemptions have not been what they used to be. Amex plat still gives me gold if I do transfer to them. In addition, for some of our winter trips I have been redeeming on Chase's portal for 1.50x when there were no Marriotts, Hiltons or Hyatts.

I was looking at the Brilliant card but the $300 credit changed and that was that.

So far I have been happy with going the independent route and finding some nice Hotels, Inns and Condos.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

Aim_High — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 19:52:21 GMT

@redpat wrote:
This year I jumped of the hotel hamster wheel and for all my business stays have been using Chase's travel portal for 10x using my CSR and reimbursing myself. The employees book their own w/ ink+, didn't want to be greedy, lol. I finally burned the rest of my Hilton points and closed that card.

I have been transferring points to Hyatt lately and some of my Marriott and Hilton redemptions have not been what they used to be. Amex plat still gives me gold if I do transfer to them. In addition, for some of our winter trips I have been redeeming on Chase's portal for 1.50x when there were no Marriotts, Hiltons or Hyatts.

I was looking at the Brilliant card but the $300 credit changed and that was that.

So far I have been happy with going the independent route and finding some nice Hotels, Inns and Condos.

Congrats for getting off the "Hotel Hamster Wheel" @redpat. I think there's a lot to be said for being a "free agent" but short of that, I am trying to choose to limit the hamster wheel influence by focusing on primarily one chain. My frustration with either the major chain bookings (OR) the major travel networks like (UR/MR) is that there are places I want to stay that aren't covered with either properties or points bookings. This is probably more applicable to places like B&B's or nice independently-owned properties. If I have x amount of Bonvoy points or Chase UR points, for example, I may find no place to spend them where I am traveling. And if I just use my CSR for the 10X booking option, if the property isn't listed in the Chase UR portal, I will only earn the standard 3x UR for travel. While that's not bad, it's definitely a weak area for both hotel loyalty programs as well as those major travel network points.

Re: Closed my Chase Marriott Bonvoy Boundless

redpat — Sat, 22 Jul 2023 01:53:43 GMT

@Aim_High , We have been lucky so far finding stays and was quite surprised by the selection on their travel portal. It took us a long time to burn our Hilton points because where we traveled to the redemptions were ridiculous and ended up using UR points anyway.

At this point I have many ur points and I didn't want to pay for stays if Marriott, Hyatt or Hilton were not available or where asking ridiculous points for a stay. We have actually stayed at some Marriotts using UR points instead of transferring because of the redemption using Marriott points wasn't worth it.