topic Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point) in Credit Cards

Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 02:53:03 GMT

I know Amex isn't an airport and there's no need to announce my departure (LOL) but I figured info on the retention offer might be useful to some.

For reference, in the past 12 months the spend on my Gold card was just under $10k, and most of that was from my AU. Also I've never asked for a retention offer from Amex before.

I requested the closure via chat, and was immediately transferred to what I'm assuming was the retention dept. The new rep asked what card I was using for my dining and grocery, and I replied back that I had no-AF cards for that (which is true). I also explained I have recently moved and can no longer take advantage of the Uber and dining credits. They then suggested that spending "only" $500 for grocery each month would generate nearly enough MR points to cover the AF, but of course that was a non-starter for me.

Finally, they offered 30K MR points for $3k spend in the next 90 days, which I also politely declined. I could have done it, but I'd have to shift spend from 4% and 5% earning cards so after the opportunity cost it just wouldn't be worth it, not to mention I'd be perpetually annoyed that the card had perks I was unable to take advantage of (Uber and dining credit).

Another factor in my decision to close the Gold card is that next month I'm going to be closing my Schwab Platinum card as well, so I won't have a good way to redeem MR points. The Schwab made sense for me before since I was able to redeem enough of the "coupons" each month to cancel-out the AF, but now that I've moved the Uber credits are useless, and if I'm honest some of the other stuff I should count at less than face-value since if it wasn't "free" I wouldn't subscribe (like Walmart+, Hulu/Disney, etc.).

Anyway, hopefully this DP will be useful to somebody.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

Brian_Earl_Spilner — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 04:24:26 GMT

You just broke @K-in-Boston 's heart.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

GZG — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 04:28:43 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
I also explained I have recently moved and can no longer take advantage of the Uber and dining credits. congrats on the move, I imagine living anywhere without uber and dining credits is a rather beautiful place

Another factor in my decision to close the Gold card is that next month I'm going to be closing my Schwab Platinum card as well, so I won't have a good way to redeem MR points. business checking allows redemptions at .8 cents/point (in case anybody else is looking at options)

congrats on the move, you might no longer be a cardholder, but the metal card will last forever.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 04:31:11 GMT

@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:
You just broke @K-in-Boston 's heart.

Haha, I know!

Hopefully I'll still be in his good graces since even after the Schwab is closed next month I'll still have a BCE and EDP.

(Note: The EDP will be PCed to a no-AF ED next spring.)

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 04:38:37 GMT

@GZG wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
I also explained I have recently moved and can no longer take advantage of the Uber and dining credits. congrats on the move, I imagine living anywhere without uber and dining credits is a rather beautiful place

Another factor in my decision to close the Gold card is that next month I'm going to be closing my Schwab Platinum card as well, so I won't have a good way to redeem MR points. business checking allows redemptions at .8 cents/point (in case anybody else is looking at options)

congrats on the move, you might no longer be a cardholder, but the metal card will last forever.

Oh yeah, you're not joking... those things are next to impossible to destroy! (I no longer try, and keep them in a box as a souvenir, LOL.)

Where I'm living now is much more 'slow-pace' than where I was before in the ATL suburbs. There's no Uber, but to be fair they do have 2-3 restaurants on Uber eats, but they're all fast food. The only one I might visit occasionally would be KFC, but then I'd feel like I had to eat there or else lose money, and I don't want to get into that trap (use-it-or-lose-it credits are part of why I decided to close the Schwab Platinum).

Good note about the business checking. I don't have a business (or "business," for that matter) so unfortunately it doesn't apply to me. I've also set a personal floor of 1¢/point for any point redemptions... less than that and it's just not worth bothering.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

MachoHombre — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 06:05:39 GMT

Nice Post @UncleB

My spend is similiar to yours, a tad higher. I really like the card but the complexity is a PIA. MR points (for me) are confusing to get a solid return. The coupon'ish perks for a few dining places and Uber are PIA and even with effort that I'd rather not have to do, I leave about 33% on the table.

If I did the math of putting the gold spend on a decent dining card, I'd most likely net out considerably ahead.

I was on the fence of departing, for many of the same reasons you did.

However, I bit on the retension spend offer that was similair to what you were offered. Combined I get a discount on AF as a perk for the AMEX AU card that my employer issued me .....so for those reasons I stayed. (sadly vanity may have played a small role too)

I've only had the card about 1.5years, I've been hoarding my MR points as I don't know how to wisely spend them. in six months when AF comes due, I'll take inventory and may follow your departure.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 06:33:06 GMT

@MachoHombre wrote:
Nice Post @UncleB

Thanks, @MachoHombre!

@MachoHombre wrote:
My spend is similiar to yours, a tad higher. I really like the card but the complexity is a PIA. MR points (for me) are confusing to get a solid return. The coupon'ish perks for a few dining places and Uber are PIA and even with effort that I'd rather not have to do, I leave about 33% on the table.

If I did the math of putting the gold spend on a decent dining card, I'd most likely net out considerably ahead.

I was on the fence of departing, for many of the same reasons you did.
However, I bit on the retension spend offer that was similair to what you were offered. Combined I get a discount on AF as a perk for the AMEX AU card that my employer issued me .....so for those reasons I stayed. (sadly vanity may have played a small role too)

I've only had the card about 1.5years, I've been hoarding my MR points as I don't know how to wisely spend them. in six months when AF comes due, I'll take inventory and may follow your departure.

I agree with all of the above.

MR points can be fantastic for some, but for those of us who aren't big into travel (and specifically, flying) it can be difficult to get value that is equal to cash-back cards. That's not Amex's fault, of course... I've always said that I'm not really in their demograpic when it comes to the charge cards, but I was a bit of a 'corner case' in that I could make the numbers work even though I didn't fly. Now that I"ve moved that's no longer the case, though.

My Gold card was opened in May 2017 so it was a good run, but it was time. Someday that might change, and if that happens I'll welcome the Gold card back with open arms (assuming they'll welcome me, of course). It was odd when the chat rep thanked me for my "28 years of cardmembership," LOL. My 'member since' date on my cards is 1995, but I guess sometimes I forget that was so long ago...

What really made this easy for me was my grandfathered Savor WEMC (no annual fee). With that I get 4% back on dining, and if I wanted to use it for grocery there's 3% back there as well (I tend to use my Altitude Reserve for groceries these days). I also have a Citi Custom Cash that can be used for 5% back on grocery, but I tend to 'save' that for 5% back on Home Depot purchases, LOL. In any case, there are a plethora of options for dining and grocery at either 3%, 4%, or 5% that don't involve an AF and don't have complicated reward redemptions.

Two years ago I got the Schwab Platinum with this departure in mind (to cash-out my MRs) and that was certainly effective - I got several thousand dollars in real money from that transaction - but instead of closing out last year I decided the math was close enough to give it another year to see how things would go. Nothing bad has happened, but I've realized that even though they both sure are shiny (haha) I'd much rather have the cash from the AF(s) in my bank account than torture the numbers to make the math work with the monthly coupons. Not being able to use the monthly Uber credits was the final nail in the coffin.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

MachoHombre — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 07:16:40 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
[snip] I'd much rather have the cash from the AF(s) in my bank account than torture the numbers to make the math work.....

That truly is the punchline. Amen.

Yep on all your comments.

My grocery spend is not high, but it does contribute to GoldSpend. My low pharmacy spend counts as grocery spend too -as I use the pharmacy in my supermarket. Dining is moderate, everything on my Gold is X4 MR

My dining spend is too much to use the Custom Cash for dining (due to their cap) So I use the Custom Cash for gas that is not bought at Costco as non-Costco gas rarely reaches cap level.

I've considered putting dining on Chase, but to your point above, just another abusive torture figuring out how to redeem the points.

**I'm confident that if I consolidated finances in BofA/Merrill to get their upper-end Preferred Rewards kicker and then put all spend on BofA card that I'd net out a return as good (or better) than i'm getting overall now ....without the torture. But not being rich (or famous), it would mean putting most eggs with BofA ...and not sure I luv them *that* much.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

FireMedic1 — Sun, 09 Jul 2023 21:47:10 GMT

Easy Come. Easy Go. Now you can leave home without it! No worries!

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

Aim_High — Tue, 18 Jul 2023 02:32:00 GMT

Great topic, @UncleB, and I have lots to add if you don't mind my tagging on. I had thought of starting a thread exactly like this one last fall but I never got around to it as I was busy at the time. I had a similar experience and wanted to pass along my own viewpoints on the AMEX Gold. I had opened it in Aug 2020 and wanted to not only gain the SUB but to experiment with MR's, as the only way to really evaluate them is to get an MR-earning card. In my situation, I was also heavily comparing MRs to the URs I was already earning from Chase.

My card had been open two years in Oct 2022 and the AF was due. Like you, I called for retention offer. Unlike you, I got nuttin'. So this was the final death nell for me and I closed it.

One of the main objections I have to the Gold as well as many other AMEX cards is something already pointed out by @MachoHombre. AMEX loves to make their card programs extremely complex with a LOT of moving parts. Call me skeptical, but IMO, the reason they do that is to complicate any attempts by the consumer to ever really know the full value they are getting since it's always changing.

MRs and URs on the "high end" of the redemption scale can both be worth as much as 2 cpp or more, depending on transfer partners and method of redemption. From my evaluation, the two points systems (for me) are comparable at the high end. (The exception would be with AMEX Business Gold or Platinum card holders who receive added value when redeeming MRs for airfare.) However, at the "low end" for cash value or equivalents like gift cards, URs are often superior with little bother since they are always worth 1 cpp. MR cash value for statement credit (without coupling with an expensive AF Schwab Platinum) are only worth 6/10 cpp and gift cards are often worth less than 1 cpp outside of some limited promotions at specific retailers. At the "mid-scale," my evaluation also found URs superior for two reasons. First, my Chase Sapphire Reserve always makes my URs worth 1.5 cpp in-travel-portal, but MR value erred towards 1 cpp. Second, it appeared to me that the MR portal prices are higher than Chase's. Bottom line on redemption: In my situation, I saw no added-value to MRs and they were often inferior.

MR Value is only part of the valuation of the card, of course, but it's an important part. Some of the other moving parts are the annual fee, credits against the annual fee, perks, and rewards-earning capability.

The Gold card's $250 AF can be reduced to an effective AF of only $10 with usage of the monthly "coupon credits" for GrubHub/selected restaurants and UBER/UBER Eats at $10 monthly for each. When I got my Gold card, there was a $100 airline fee credit before the UBER credits, which I found more practical and easy to use since it was based annually. As opposed to some of the other annoying AMEX credits, I thought these would easily to reduce my AF. I mainly used the restaurant credit for GrubHub ordering pizza to pickup at a favorite local joint, but it wasn't organic spend as much as I was looking for a place to use my credits easily. Also, I noted that the currently-popular food delivery options are charging higher prices and fees than directly ordering from the merchant in some cases, and if delivered, there are tips for the driver. I never used the UBER credits; I don't ride share. And in practice, I found that I was only using about 50% of my credits and my effective AF was about $130. That further eroded the value of my MRs.

The Gold card earns very well on dining and groceries, but of course that value also depends on redemption value of MRs. In my case, I valued MRs at about 1 cpp at best for most redemption (before subtracting for the drag of the AF) while I had hoped to get more like 1.5 to 2.0 cpp. So the 4x MR didn't really outearn my CSR for dining and wasn't truly exceptional for the AF for groceries either. Also, as empty-nesters, DW and I don't have a huge grocery bill but the Gold card's higher $25K cap on 4x grocery is a great deal for large families. Just not needed in my case.

Perk-wise, the Gold didn't add anything that I didn't get with my Chase Sapphire Reserve or my AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant. It was inferior to both of those in this area.

AMEX Offers have the potential to add value, but I have those with my AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant (whose fee is easily offset in my case by credits) and my Blue Business Plus.

AMEX did get me some special opportunities to earn more MRs but they were based on spending MORE money with them, similar to those mentioned by @UncleB. I got an enhanced MR offer on restaurant spend after sending them a referral for a new card and I also had one other special offer based on meeting a spending goal. While these offers can be lucrative, they make me change my choice of cards for spending and further complicate my ability to calculate rewards value. Moreover, these offers aren't something I can depend on in the future since they change, but I have to admit that these did give me pause about canceling the card.

A minor part for me also was in my domestic travels around the country, I occasionally found merchants who wouldn't accept AMEX. While this wasn't a huge problem since I had other cards, it was a consideration.

If AMEX would simplify the credits against AF by making them for $x spending in restaurants or groceries or total, or have retained the airline fee credits, I would have probably kept the Gold, regardless of the AF. I liked carrying it. But it was just too complicated, the credits for me were not organic, the MR redemption value didn't impress me, and it didn't seem to be offering me the same value I could get elsewhere.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 04:15:20 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
Another factor in my decision to close the Gold card is that next month I'm going to be closing my Schwab Platinum card as well, so I won't have a good way to redeem MR points. The Schwab made sense for me before since I was able to redeem enough of the "coupons" each month to cancel-out the AF, but now that I've moved the Uber credits are useless, and if I'm honest some of the other stuff I should count at less than face-value since if it wasn't "free" I wouldn't subscribe (like Walmart+, Hulu/Disney, etc.).

Anyway, hopefully this DP will be useful to somebody.

For those who might be curious, I did follow-through with closing the Schwab Platinum. They offered me 15k points for $3k spend, but that was a hard 'no'.

I admit it's kind of sad - I've had an Amex charge card of some flavor since 2015 - but back then it was more of a 'goal' card than anything else, and eight years was long enough to satisfy my feelings of nostalgia for the old days (I had a Green Card back in the 90s).

I still have my EDP (which will be changed to an ED in February) and of course my new BCE, which has been quite nifty with 10% off restaurants these last few months (Resy offer). It's taken me a while to get here, but I'm now where I really need to be with Amex... by that I mean cards that are useful to me with decent credit lines.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

swankytiger — Fri, 08 Sep 2023 12:19:03 GMT

Going to close my Schwab Platinum and Gold next year as well since Uber doesnt exist here either and neither does any of the other major ways to satisfy the coupon book and I just dont have enough spend to make them worth it.

Re: Closed Amex Gold - Retention Offer (Data Point)

UncleB — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 04:59:43 GMT

@swankytiger wrote:
Going to close my Schwab Platinum and Gold next year as well since Uber doesnt exist here either and neither does any of the other major ways to satisfy the coupon book and I just dont have enough spend to make them worth it.

This was me, exactly.

My wallet is (literally) a bit lighter without those slabs of metal, but I don't regret it. If my situation ever changes I'm sure they'll still be there if I decide to go that route again, and in the mean time I'm enjoying not having to work to use the 'coupons' (which is no longer even possible for me anyway).

Disclaimer: If anybody bothers to search through my post history, I've said numerous times over the years that I was always an edge case for the Gold and an extreme corner case for the Platinum, so I'm not complaining about my time with them or the products themselves. For many folks they're fantastic products, and they definitely served their purpose(s) for me. I have nothing but love for Amex and for those who love them.