topic Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP? in Credit Cards

Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:37:32 GMT

I'm a non US resident with ITIN. Opened my first US credit cards in July 2023 and am wondering what I can do to reach my dream setup ASAP.

Profile:

Majority foreign use and therefore no FTF
Spend little currently, therefore no high EAF/couponing
No Amex due to bad acceptance, (high) AF/FTF
Have many cards and accounts, but would prefer to carry/use a minimal portfolio, use Apple Pay as much as possible
Travel economy, not loyal to airline/alliance, sometimes travel frequently
Have unlimited Priority Pass (no restaurants) with guest access already
Would like to get Global Entry and have that refunded by a card

Have:

Bank of America Travel Rewards VISA, opened in July 2023, initial CL 500, 100 deposit, 1.5% catch all, limit annoyingly low, but nice for first card
Capital One Savor One Student Mastercard, opened in July 2023, initial CL 300, but upgraded after uploading my non US student status to 1k. CLI to 1.3k in December, before the statement. Great for food/entertainment, limit is mostly enough
American Express Hilton Honors, opened in August 2023, initial CL 5k due to my foreign credit history, pretty much only to have a relationship with Amex and a higher CL
Several bank/brokerage accounts with Citi, Amex, Alliant, Fidelity, Schwab

Credit Score:

689 FICO 8 January via myFICO
Revolving Utilization: 15%
Average Age of Accounts/Age of Oldest Account 6 months
Number of Recent Inquiries 1 (6 months) (6 inquiries since May)
Reported months paid
- C1 5, Dez not yet
- BofA 5, Dez not yet
- Amex 3, Dez not yet

Want:

US Bank Altitude Reserve VISA, the premium card that makes the most sense for my profile, travel and Apple Pay cashback/RTR is great.
Bank of America Customized Cash Rewards Mastercard, my Travel Rewards VISA gives me verification errors sometimes for online purchases, my C1 Mastercard let's me request a text message. As I plan to set the card to online payments that is much preferred. Heard product changing from a non FTF card to CCR ensures it's without FTF, worth a try.
Fidelity/Elan VISA Signature, not sure how much the 2% vs 1.5% would be and if I'm even eligible with only ITIN, phone support wasn't clear on it. Also plan to change my residency to non US with Fidelity and not sure if that would render me ineligible.

Thoughts:

The AR would give me the most benefit at the moment I think, but also probably the hardest to get. Was applying for a Altitude Secured Go but didn't to through with the verification as at that time US Bank didn't graduate/offer cards without SSN. Now they openly accept ITINs for other sign ups. Not in the US now and don't have a valid drivers license anymore, but the verification for myFICO, Schwab and others has been working based on my records. Considering a Kroger's Mastercard. Other US Bank ones don't make much sense for my profile. Or to try a savings account, but rather not lock funds away in another account.

Not sure if a credit line increase/graduation could work for BofA/C1 yet or rather because I already got an auto increase in December, but should probably try.

Not sure if I should risk a HP with Elan, if they let me in and if that could help for the AR.

Also thinking about the Venture X. But the required travel portal usage for credit redemption and the fact I already have an unlimited PriorityPass with guest access makes it more of an option for later.

If putting some spend on the Amex makes sense, to ensure I have 3 accounts with balances reported, instead of 2. I just don't really have use for Hilton points.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

SouthJamaica — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:05:14 GMT

At this point it seems to me that your best option is to bite the bullet and concentrate on getting your scores up. That will mean low reported balances, and no new applications, for awhile.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:16:26 GMT

That's not what I wanted to hear, but seems very reasonable. Thanks!

I do think my score and portfolio is pretty good considering I only started 6 months ago.

I think I will ask BofA if I can graduate my card and get a CLI and product change. And request another CLI with C1 once I pay the next statement. That seems low/no risk and actually possible.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

SouthJamaica — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 19:19:08 GMT

@futa wrote:
That's not what I wanted to hear, but seems very reasonable. Thanks!
I do think my score and portfolio is pretty good considering I only started 6 months ago.

I think I will ask BofA if I can graduate my card and get a CLI and product change. And request another CLI with C1 once I pay the next statement. That seems low/no risk and actually possible.

Any CLI's you can get without a HP are golden.

I wasn't trying to say your scores and portfolio weren't good, just that they weren't yet in position for you to get the kind of cards you are looking for. I.e., as I see it, the shortest path to your "dream set up" is to work with what you have, and get the scores up, before applying.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 19:42:18 GMT

That part was very clear.

I'm not the most patient, but in comparison to what I have seen score and portfolio wise I can be quite satisfied already. It's a journey, not a sprint, based on what I've read.

I will get there in not such a long time probably. Appreciate your input!

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Aim_High — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:33:44 GMT

Welcome to My FICO Forums, @futa.

I concur with @SouthJamaica that your best bet is to build on what you have, allow inguiries and new accounts to age, try to increase CLs with soft-pull CLIs, and lower utilization to optimize FICO. Overall, this is what is known on the forums as "gardening," i.e attending to your current "crop" of cards without trying to grow new ones with new accounts or hard pull inquiries. Yes, this is almost never what goal-focused newcomers want to hear, but it's for the best. Patience and timing are key. Proceeding too quickly can have adverse consequences such as hard pulls only to get a denial (wasted), low starting limits, or settling for a bunch of starter card with "toy" (low) limits that litter a profile and inhibit better approvals.

US Bank Altitude Reserve would probably be a good card for what you seek, but you're not close to an approvable profile. If it's possible, I would consider opening banking accounts with them first, but I believe you mentioned you're not currently in the states?? Will you be at some point later on? Also, with your profile, you might increase your chances of an eventual AR approval if you start with one of their lower cards and build personal payment history. Going straight for AR is overly optimistic. (It's only been a few years that ANYONE could directly cold-app for AR; it was previously a 'relationship' card after either a prior banking or credit relationship.)

Where I would most flag your profile as shaky:

Six inquiries in six months. (We often suggest a good pace of ONE inquiry or new account every SIX months to avoid appearing overly aggessive in seeking credit. You've been pretty aggressive from the lender's standpoint.)
Oldest account of only six months.
Average age of accounts of only six months.
FICO of less than 700.
Utilization of 15%. (Optimum is 1% to about 8%; lower is better but 0% isn't good either.)

The good news is that you have cards with Capital One, AMEX, and Bank of America which can ALL grow by soft pull credit limit increases once every six months. So use all of those cards every month responsibly, pay them off, and ask for the CLIs on a set schedule. Higher usage may yield better results. How long to garden? With the amount of activity you've already had, I would suggest waiting a full 12 months to allow things to age and mature. That would put you at 0/6 (months); 0/12 months; and 6/24 months for new accounts and inquiries. That's a much better place to be going into a new app instead of 6/6; 6/12 or 0/6; 6/12.

You have (5) brokerage accounts. That seems like a lot; do you have a lot of assets? If so, consolidating them under one brokerage might open the door to special consideration, especially if your assets are managed. Some suggestions would be with Chase, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, UBS (the swiss bank; not USB, US Bank), among others.

FYI, you're not the first to do so, but some of us on My FICO cringe at the word "portfolio" to describe credit card holdings. It's really a misnomer since the definition of portfolio in this context is "A group of investments held by an investor, investment company, or financial institution." Credit cards are not assets or investments; they are potential debts or liabilities.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:31:45 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:

FYI, you're not the first to do so, but some of us on My FICO cringe at the word "portfolio" to describe credit card holdings. It's really a misnomer since the definition of portfolio in this context is "A group of investments held by an investor, investment company, or financial institution." Credit cards are not assets or investments; they are potential debts or liabilities.

I agree, but (correctly) focussing on them as being debts or liabilites would be an amusing change for MyFico: "Yeah, finally got to close my last credit card, I'm so happy!" and supportive messages "I am so happy you got rejected for [card X]. One less to worry about"

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Citylights18 — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 02:35:52 GMT

The bank brokerage accounts won't mean much aside from a good place to park money at the moment with these interest rates.

I guess if I had to do it over I would have started with an airline card for an airline that had a hub nearby. A few free flights here and there are nice for a student.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Aim_High — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 03:10:17 GMT

@Citylights18 wrote:
The bank brokerage accounts won't mean much aside from a good place to park money at the moment with these interest rates.

It depends on the number of digits, @Citylights18. No, $50K isn't going to open doors. $500K might start to get some attention. $1M or higher could certainly lead to special handling of credit card applications as a service to the client.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Aim_High — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 03:17:14 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
FYI, you're not the first to do so, but some of us on My FICO cringe at the word "portfolio" to describe credit card holdings. It's really a misnomer since the definition of portfolio in this context is "A group of investments held by an investor, investment company, or financial institution." Credit cards are not assets or investments; they are potential debts or liabilities.
I agree, but (correctly) focussing on them as being debts or liabilites would be an amusing change for MyFico: "Yeah, finally got to close my last credit card, I'm so happy!" and supportive messages "I am so happy you got rejected for [card X]. One less to worry about"

Lol, funny @Anonymous. Actually, I prefer to think of my cards as neither asset or liability. They are tools in my financial toolbox. As long as I'm managing my finances responsibly, they aren't a liability.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 15:49:21 GMT

@Aim_HighThank you, also for your comprehensive input!

I could try to open a checking or savings account with US Bank, not sure if that would require me to go to a branch as I did with Citi or Bank of America. At this point with my credit report I have more data in the systems for verification. But I know that bank accounts for people with limited history or foreigners with only ITIN can be a bit more tricky to open remotely. Yes, I'm not in the US, will be at some point again, but uncertain as to when exactly.

I did read that the USB AR is notoriously difficult, even with more established history. Hence my consideration to get a Krogers Mastercard or Altitude Go. The Altitude Go makes less sense as I already have the SavorOne and I usually don't eat out much or rather it depends where I am.

Would prefer a credit card over having to park cash with another account.

I'm actually at 0/6 6/12 at the moment, just some days outside of 1/6 5/12 now. I was fiddling around and withdrew a Platinum Secured card and then went again for the SavorOne, was a bit tricky to get started with Capital One, that got me 3 inquiries with Capital One sadly. Wasted 2 with US Bank for the Altitude Secured Go and abandoned that when I learned that back then they would never graduate it unless I can provide an SSN and having to fax in documents. Now they accept ITINs, directly of all cards. 1 is from Synchrony for an Amazon Secured Store card where they wanted I send in paper documents even though I already did. After I got my one unsecured and one secured credit card I found that too annoying. At least some of them have resulted in a reportable account with C1.

I'm considering to wait until I reached one year of credit history since my first card on July 2024. That would put me at 0/6 3/12 3/24, with all 3 inquiries being before I got my first card. Maybe the US Bank Kroger and Elan Fidelity would work sooner even, as they're not that premium and at least for the Elan/Fidelity one I heard people got it with 500 CL? Will also monitor my score monthly and see if it goes up due to good behavior. Would anyone know if I the Elan/Fidelity counts as having a relationship with US Bank, as they are underwritten by US Bank? Or better to get a Kroger Mastercard as that seems to be directly with US Bank?

For the brokerage accounts, I actually am consolidating most things from other US and international ones to Fidelity mostly and a bit to Interactive Brokers. Schwab is just for the debit card and don't want others, happy with Fidelity and easy to keep as non resident too. BofA for instance does only do US residents. Their rewards program is nice but not for me with that restriction.

Fidelity is also great for parking cash, as is Amex HYSA as backup.

I also see my cards as my toolbox portfolio of sorts. Liability has a different connotation to me that I think of first. But I'm aware of the financial lingo. As finance, credit cards, bank, brokerage etc accounts are a bit of my passion I obsess about, I do treasure them as my collection, maybe that is a better word.

@Citylights18

Are these not usually either with FTF or with AF? I'm if all goes well be associated with an airline soon and don't think would have much use for one then anyways. Also not being frequently enough in the US. I think both past and future wise cashback is a better match for me. Hence no Venture X or other point/portal cards.

USBAR is my holy grail.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:32:22 GMT

@futa wrote:
Maybe the US Bank Kroger and Elan Fidelity would work sooner even, as they're not that premium and at least for the Elan/Fidelity one I heard people got it with 500 CL?

In the past, when the Fidelity card was issued by part of BoA, it was somewhat "premium". It may well have changed with Elan. That said, it still serves an ultra-premium market: with enough money UNDER MANAGEMENT at Fidelity, it becomes a flat 3% card.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 17:44:41 GMT

Yep, but it's just a VISA Signature, same as my BofA Travel Rewards Secured with 500 CL/200 deposit.

And from the DPs I've seen with such low CL and also lower scores it seem significantly easier to get.

From what I read, my assets at Fidelity don't influence the decision at Elan whatsoever. Except the higher cashback amount if you are willing to let Fidelity drain you with their managed fees.

USBAR being an Infinite, have only seen DPs with the 5k initial CL, down from the supposed 10k minimum for VISA Infinite cards.

I do have my Amex reporting a 5k CL, but I guess not quite enough without a score improvement that other lenders would grant me the same.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

SouthJamaica — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 18:31:33 GMT

@futa wrote:
......
I could try to open a checking or savings account with US Bank, not sure if that would require me to go to a branch as I did with Citi or Bank of America. ........

You can open accounts online with US Bank. Sometimes they offer promotional signup bonuses for new checking accounts.

E.g. : https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/checking-accounts/what-you-need-to-open-a-checking-account.html

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Kforce — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 20:10:17 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:
FYI, you're not the first to do so, but some of us on My FICO cringe at the word "portfolio" to describe credit card holdings. It's really a misnomer since the definition of portfolio in this context is "A group of investments held by an investor, investment company, or financial institution." Credit cards are not assets or investments; they are potential debts or liabilities.
I agree, but (correctly) focussing on them as being debts or liabilites would be an amusing change for MyFico: "Yeah, finally got to close my last credit card, I'm so happy!" and supportive messages "I am so happy you got rejected for [card X]. One less to worry about"
Lol, funny @Anonymous. Actually, I prefer to think of my cards as neither asset or liability. They are tools in my financial toolbox. As long as I'm managing my finances responsibly, they aren't a liability.

Think of them like a "Chain Saw"

You could use a less dangerous tool.

What fun would that be.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Econowiz — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:25:54 GMT

Hi @futa ,
I am an ITIN Holder, and Chase Private Client. I went through it myself not too long ago. A common misconception among enthusiasts is thinking that a high FICO score will have them approved for the best cards whereas this is not always true, especially for non-SSN holders.
@SouthJamaica and @Aim_High have great advice.

Six inquiries within 6 months for a 6-month-old profile is a major issue, since they stay there for usually 24 months.
Consider working on on-time payments, low reporting utilization and SP CLI. Understand that before requesting CLIs, you may wanna use your cards more often but keep reporting utilization at <2% and not have carried any balance to increase your chances.

You can't open personal bank accounts with major banks online with ITIN.
Brokerage accounts won't help but Checking/Savings accounts may be useful [with the same bank] if you have monthly transactions going through.
For example, Chase approves you for a Freedom Rise Card without Pull upon opening and funding a checking account with at least $250 but I'd recommend more than $2000 to get a CL of potentially more than that number. It's the best starting card for ITIN holders. You may consider it if you can make the trip to the US.

Six months is considered a very thin credit file as it gives lenders very little information about your behavior with credit. As per FICO, anything less than two years is considered a short credit history. If you apply for a card, this will most likely be the main reason for denial, coupled with too many requests for credit. You may increase your AAoC by being added as an AU, etc. but not all lenders may consider AU accounts anyway... but doesn't hurt to have.

I would like to understand why US Bank is that attractive to you?

US Bank is one of the most conservative banks in the CC space and also very ITIN-adverse.
As you mentioned, they do approve secured cards with ITIN and that's about it. While you can apply for U.S. Bank credit cards using an ITIN, you will be automatically rejected. Some fellow ITIN holders have tested it and completed their applications, only to be handed a “not a valid SSN” message after it was processed and still wasting HP. I have yet to meet an ITIN holder with an unsecured US Bank CC that isn't from an AU. The Chase Sapphire Cards are arguably better alternatives for international users.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:36:09 GMT

@Econowiz

For now I will just put all spend through the cards, going back to debit cards seems counterproductive if I want CLIs and I would forfeit cashback. I read that while low utilization has influence on the score, that it's a rather temporary window and therfore can be optimized ~5 weeks before an application. Where as having a really low reported utilization will cause most issuers to not grant me CLs and right now I really need them to go up to become more usable.

I'm paying a lot of attention to fully pay on time and to stay away from further HPs most definitely.

I had a look at Chase, but their products don't interest me. I don't want to play the points game and many seem to have FTFs.

Unfortunately I don't think there's anyone that would be a good candidate to add me as AU. I had a friend try to get into Navy Federal so that I could join through him, but sadly the verification didn't go through for him. I heard that they are very generous limit wise.

US Bank, because of the Altitude Reserve. High cashback, and for everything with Apple Pay plus travel costs, no guesstimating categories/MCCs of merchants. That would cover the majority of my spending. Depending in which country I am, but for the ones with little Apple Pay acceptance I would have the SavorOne and a catch all (e.g. Fidelity VISA).

As mentioned I dropped my Altitude Secured Go application due to requirement to have an SSN. But that's the thing, six months ago I couldn't enter an ITIN and it only said SSN on the applications, but now it says SSN/ITIN. Before it was only there for the secured cards and confirmed to me on the phone. So to me it looks that things have changed. I wonder how recently your observed experience was? Would really be unfortunate to have gotten my hopes up for nothing.

I know they're difficult, but am hoping I can get a lower tier card from them first maybe to get a relationship, be it a Kroger Mastercard, Elan Fidelity or a Altitude (Secured) Go.

I think my 4 card setup, while only carrying 3, seems easy to use with low fees and great features and diverse lenders. VISAs and at least one Mastercard too.

- US Bank Altitude Reserve

- Capital One SavorOne

- Bank of America Customized Cash (online)

- Elan/US Bank Fidelity Signature

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

stonedog23 — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 08:08:57 GMT

I don't understand, you said that as a non US resident that the only US Bank card that makes sense to you is the Krogers one. Is there a Krogers in your locale?

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

futa — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:58:48 GMT

No. But the Krogers Mastercard (plus the other affiliated ones, Harris...) appeals the most to me due to the no FTF and high cashback on everything Apple Pay. That is until/if I can get the Altitude Reserve for more benefits and uncapped cashback.

I did read about needing a Krogers location near your address as requirement, but that seems no longer be neccessary.

Re: Young portfolio - best strategy to move towards dream setup ASAP?

Econowiz — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 17:16:13 GMT

Hi @futa

@futa wrote:
@Econowiz
For now I will just put all spend through the cards, going back to debit cards seems counterproductive if I want CLIs and I would forfeit cashback.

Right, it's best to put everything on the cc instead of debit.

I read that while low utilization has influence on the score, that it's a rather temporary window and therfore can be optimized ~5 weeks before an application.

Correct. Note that it's less about the weeks, it's more about your statement end date. You want to pay off your card by those dates, so that your reported balance is low <1% on your credit report.

Where as having a really low reported utilization will cause most issuers to not grant me CLs and right now I really need them to go up to become more usable.

Unsure if we are talking about the same thing here. What I meant is if you regularly use your credit card responsibly, such as making on-time payments and maintaining low balances (ideally paid off by the statement date), it can positively impact your chances of receiving a CLI. You can obviously use all of your available credit but you should ideally maintain a low balance at all time.

However, if a bank reviews your credit report and observes high utilization across your cards (meaning you are using a significant portion of your available credit), they might be hesitant to approve a CLI. High utilization can be seen as a potential risk, as it may indicate financial strain, hence why as mentioned above, you want to pay off before your statement period ends.

I had a look at Chase, but their products don't interest me. I don't want to play the points game and many seem to have FTFs.

Well the US Bank AR card is identical to Chase Sapphire Reserve, which is considered as one of the best travel cards available. As a travel card, it obv. offers no FTF too. US Bank Annual fee is lower tho. It's up to your individual needs ofc...

I wonder how recently your observed experience was? Would really be unfortunate to have gotten my hopes up for nothing.
I know they're difficult, but am hoping I can get a lower tier card from them first maybe to get a relationship, be it a Kroger Mastercard, Elan Fidelity or a Altitude (Secured) Go.

Just give them a call you will know within the hour. US Banks has not been ITIN Friendly for their products except secured or AU; but YMMV. Getting a secured card is unnecessary at this point as it won't get upgraded anyways. Best bet is to keep gardening for a while. Caution: You can also get denied a secured card, esp. with your number of inquiries.

All said and done, understand that with an ITIN, you are already going to be a riskier bet for the bank than a SSN holder. Always look at it from the bank's perspective.

You already have 3 cards within 6 months.
Already 6 inquiries within 24 months
No US based bank accounts with consistent income sources or savings...
No installment loans such as a car, mortgage, etc.

Not saying that to discourage you but be aware that it's going to take a good amount of time and a thicker, clean credit history for you to get to high limits and higher-tier cards.

All the best