topic Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth? in Credit Cards

How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Vash1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 19:48:00 GMT

Most here have either a cashback or travel rewards strategy. Whats the value of your strategy worth each month to you (or quarter or year) relative to your spend? Also explain your strategy (rotating categories, how many cards used to achieve it, etc)

Currently I have a cash back strategy mainly because I'm new to utilizing rewards in a strategic way, and I can get about 1.8% a month max value but only because I don't have the cards I want/need yet to match our spend. My goal is to switch to a travel reawards strategy. In a few months I'm looking to get Chase Sapphire Reserve/Prefered and Marriot Bonvoy Boundless to accomplish this.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 19:21:48 GMT

From previous discussions of this type of question, a better metric rather than "how much" is percent (so rewards value/total spend). Otherwise I can apparently do well with a 1% card providing I spend a lot.

Once travel is added in, the question then is how to value travel rewards. The simplest way is to compare to the cash price, but there are big concerns about that ("Yes, the cash price for that is $20K, but would you have paid $20K?" type stuff)

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Kforce — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 19:31:19 GMT

Money amount of rewards is meaningless with out spend.

Answers should be as a percentage.

A low spender might make $10/mo and others $1000/mo

Second point is many add up all rewards (Gross Rewards $)

but never subtract value of time managing each card (Net $)

Real value of card's <> gross rewards.

Travel is even worse, real value of moving to 1st class, a lounge, a bag you would not have packed!

I put all spend on two cards for just over 3% cashback

with very little time loss.

Edit

Sorry @Anonymous was faster

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Vash1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 19:49:39 GMT

Thank you @Anonymous and @Kforce . I've edited the original post to reflect a more correct phrasing of the question asked.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Anonymous — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 19:52:45 GMT

@Kforce wrote:
Money amount of rewards is meaningless with out spend.
Answers should be as a percentage.
A low spender might make $10/mo and others $1000/mo

Second point is many add up all rewards (Gross Rewards $)
but never subtract value of time managing each card (Net $)
Real value of card's <> gross rewards.

Travel is even worse, real value of moving to 1st class, a lounge, a bag you would not have packed!

I put all spend on two cards for just over 3% cashback
with very little time loss.

Edit
Sorry @Anonymous was faster

Good point about time cost.

Also, and I know this applies to ABOSULUTELY NO MyFico person ever: for some people, credit card rewards lead to increased (presumably unnecessary) spending, reducing the "real" value of the rewards. Yes, everyone here puts on their credit card only spend that they would be making anyway blah blah blah (and this has no correlation to the posts "I have $X in credit card debt how do I l..." where the debt is non-medical)

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

redpat — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 20:45:27 GMT

Well for those that have business spend it is better to gather points/miles than CB, points/miles are not taxable.

Worth, none....Free travel, yes, since about 80% of the points come from business spend.

As for time spent, very little only using two cards.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

CorpCrMgr1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 20:53:48 GMT

My cards are for cash back. I generally travel via car and have the ability to stay in the guest room when visiting family.

I use my Chase Prime a lot and always on USB Kroger, BJ's, Home Depot (the 10% coupon), and to a small extent with Discover.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Vash1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 21:32:34 GMT

@redpatthat point for travel being most beneficial for business cards is one I haven't considered and is a really cool point.

And it's really a double advantage as business travel spend is a write off while simultaneously earning the points for a free trip.

It's just fascinating to me the cool ways to take advantage of perks offered from rewards.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

ptatohed — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 22:09:32 GMT

We spend about $2500/mo using our 3% AOD Visa Sig. Then maybe another $1500 - 2000/mo at 5% (rotators, citi CC, Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc.). Then there are the plethora of SWY spending offers. Last month spend $1000 online, get $250 (in points) so that's ~25% right there. This (and next 2) months, spend $60 five times, get $50/mo statement credit so that's approximately 16% extra (and I'll be making those purchases in gas so make that ~21%). There's been 10% extra on top of the 5/3% for gas/groc/dine so that's ~13-15%. 5% for $500 utility spend so ~6% back with the usual 1%. Etc., etc. Let's see..... my citi R+ gives up to an extra $100/yr on my citi CC (making it a 5.55% card up to the extra $100). My upgrade just gave me $25 for $500 spend making the net CB 7.2%. I use my citi R+ for small purchases a lot, making it up to, say, 10% for those two Jack in the Box 99c tacos. I use shopping apps like SYW, Rakuten, Capital One, T-Mobile dining, even my acorns links to get additional CB (the other day I double dipped SYW and upgrade shopping links to get 5% extra from each at Submarina, plus the usual 2.2% = 12.2%). The Chase offers are far between but some are pretty good for extra CB. I'm sure I am missing some other greater than 5% strategies.

So, essentially, never less than 3% and sometimes up to 25%!

I really do need to do the math and calc the overall % back on a year's spend.

As for buying things I wouldn't otherwise, I'm sure I am guilty of it but I do like to think I am pretty diligent about that.

As for my time... it's a fun hobby so it's a pleasure, not an expense.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Kforce — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 21:38:30 GMT

Real cash back cards, avaliable to most with little/no strings

Most can get ~3 % with 3-7 cards.

~4 % takes (7-12 cards).

~ 4.5 % (12-24 cards).

Some exceptions with lots of money in play

BofA and a couple of others.

~4% to 4.25% with 4-6 cards.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Vash1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 22:12:03 GMT

@ptatohed That's impressive how you're able to utillize multiple cards and monthly bouns rewards for additional cash back on top of the regular rewards. I just checked the post on the SWY card mentioned and that is an amazing CB card. When its a fun hobby seeing how to optimize rewards it's cool that it basically eliminates the time cost.

Do you use any software like excel or sheets to keep track?

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

ptatohed — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 22:54:21 GMT

@Vash1 wrote:
@ptatohed That's impressive how you're able to utillize multiple cards and monthly bouns rewards for additional cash back on top of the regular rewards. I just checked the post on the SWY card mentioned and that is an amazing CB card. When its a fun hobby seeing how to optimize rewards it's cool that it basically eliminates the time cost.

Do you use any software like excel or sheets to keep track?

Nope, no software. Just a cheat sheet each quarter for my wife and I.

A spreadsheet is a good idea though.

I love the SYW card but it is not for everyone. While there are a lot of statement credit offers which is true cash back, the every day spending and (rarely) some of the bonus offers are in SYW points which can only be used for gift cards which some people don't like. It's a quirky card but can be oh so lucrative!

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

SouthJamaica — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 23:03:24 GMT

@ptatohed wrote:
We spend about $2500/mo using our 3% AOD Visa Sig. Then maybe another $1500 - 2000/mo at 5% (rotators, citi CC, Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc.). Then there are the plethora of SWY spending offers. Last month spend $1000 online, get $250 (in points) so that's ~25% right there. This (and next 2) months, spend $60 five times, get $50/mo statement credit so that's approximately 16% extra (and I'll be making those purchases in gas so make that ~21%). There's been 10% extra on top of the 5/3% for gas/groc/dine so that's ~13-15%. 5% for $500 utility spend so ~6% back with the usual 1%. Etc., etc. Let's see..... my citi R+ gives up to an extra $100/yr on my citi CC (making it a 5.55% card up to the extra $100). My upgrade just gave me $25 for $500 spend making the net CB 7.2%. I use my citi R+ for small purchases a lot, making it up to, say, 10% for those two Jack in the Box 99c tacos. I use shopping apps like SYW, Rakuten, Capital One, T-Mobile dining, even my acorns links to get additional CB (the other day I double dipped SYW and upgrade shopping links to get 5% extra from each at Submarina, plus the usual 2.2% = 12.2%). The Chase offers are far between but some are pretty good for extra CB. I'm sure I am missing some other greater than 5% strategies.

So, essentially, never less than 3% and sometimes up to 25%!

I really do need to do the math and calc the overall % back on a year's spend.

As for buying things I wouldn't otherwise, I'm sure I am guilty of it but I do like to think I am pretty diligent about that.

As for my time... it's a fun hobby so it's a pleasure, not an expense.

I got exhausted reading that.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

Vash1 — Tue, 05 Mar 2024 23:05:44 GMT

@ptatohed wrote:
@Vash1 wrote:
@ptatohed That's impressive how you're able to utillize multiple cards and monthly bouns rewards for additional cash back on top of the regular rewards. I just checked the post on the SWY card mentioned and that is an amazing CB card. When its a fun hobby seeing how to optimize rewards it's cool that it basically eliminates the time cost.

Do you use any software like excel or sheets to keep track?
Nope, no software. Just a cheat sheet each quarter for my wife and I.

A spreadsheet is a good idea though.

I love the SYW card but it is not for everyone. While there are a lot of statement credit offers which is true cash back, the every day spending and (rarely) some of the bonus offers are in SYW points which can only be used for gift cards which some people don't like. It's a quirky card but can be oh so lucrative!

Oh so that's the drawback. Redemption is just for gift cards instead of cash or stmt credits. Still lucrative though I can tell. If you ever decide to use something like excel, you can message me and I can share a simple rewards tracker I made that can help keep track of it all.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

ptatohed — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 00:04:15 GMT

@Vash1 wrote:
@ptatohed wrote:
@Vash1 wrote:
@ptatohed That's impressive how you're able to utillize multiple cards and monthly bouns rewards for additional cash back on top of the regular rewards. I just checked the post on the SWY card mentioned and that is an amazing CB card. When its a fun hobby seeing how to optimize rewards it's cool that it basically eliminates the time cost.

Do you use any software like excel or sheets to keep track?
Nope, no software. Just a cheat sheet each quarter for my wife and I.

A spreadsheet is a good idea though.

I love the SYW card but it is not for everyone. While there are a lot of statement credit offers which is true cash back, the every day spending and (rarely) some of the bonus offers are in SYW points which can only be used for gift cards which some people don't like. It's a quirky card but can be oh so lucrative!
Oh so that's the drawback. Redemption is just for gift cards instead of cash or stmt credits. Still lucrative though I can tell. If you ever decide to use something like excel, you can message me and I can share a simple rewards tracker I made that can help keep track of it all.

Very nice offer, thanks V1. If you have any questions about the SYW card, feel free to ask.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

redpat — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 00:19:21 GMT

@Vash1 wrote:
@redpatthat point for travel being most beneficial for business cards is one I haven't considered and is a really cool point.

And it's really a double advantage as business travel spend is a write off while simultaneously earning the points for a free trip.

It's just fascinating to me the cool ways to take advantage of perks offered from rewards.

That's all business spend not just travel.

So yes, I will over spend on travel because I can. Lol, I work my a$# off, so why not.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

CorpCrMgr1 — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 01:49:51 GMT

@ptatohed wrote:
We spend about $2500/mo using our 3% AOD Visa Sig. Then maybe another $1500 - 2000/mo at 5% (rotators, citi CC, Amazon, Walmart, Target, etc.). Then there are the plethora of SWY spending offers. Last month spend $1000 online, get $250 (in points) so that's ~25% right there. This (and next 2) months, spend $60 five times, get $50/mo statement credit so that's approximately 16% extra (and I'll be making those purchases in gas so make that ~21%). There's been 10% extra on top of the 5/3% for gas/groc/dine so that's ~13-15%. 5% for $500 utility spend so ~6% back with the usual 1%. Etc., etc. Let's see..... my citi R+ gives up to an extra $100/yr on my citi CC (making it a 5.55% card up to the extra $100). My upgrade just gave me $25 for $500 spend making the net CB 7.2%. I use my citi R+ for small purchases a lot, making it up to, say, 10% for those two Jack in the Box 99c tacos. I use shopping apps like SYW, Rakuten, Capital One, T-Mobile dining, even my acorns links to get additional CB (the other day I double dipped SYW and upgrade shopping links to get 5% extra from each at Submarina, plus the usual 2.2% = 12.2%). The Chase offers are far between but some are pretty good for extra CB. I'm sure I am missing some other greater than 5% strategies.

So, essentially, never less than 3% and sometimes up to 25%!

I really do need to do the math and calc the overall % back on a year's spend.

As for buying things I wouldn't otherwise, I'm sure I am guilty of it but I do like to think I am pretty diligent about that.

As for my time... it's a fun hobby so it's a pleasure, not an expense.

Your comment on buying things you wouldn't is why I don't really try to keep up on the categories. Good for you!

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

okurosetta — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 17:52:34 GMT

@Kforce wrote:
Second point is many add up all rewards (Gross Rewards $)
but never subtract value of time managing each card (Net $)
Real value of card's <> gross rewards.

I'm with @ptatohed here - juggling cards is a fun hobby to me. If I am enjoying it, why would I subtract value?

I like managing my spreadsheet. I like pre-planning payments, tracking things like inquiries, CLIs, and AAoA, calculating points return based on the best paid rate available for the time/area, etc etc. My credit score tab currently has 437 historical scores. My spreadsheet has 24 tabs that I use at least somewhat regularly.

Simply put, this is a hobby that I enjoy. If I stop enjoying it, I could see the logic of subtracting value due to time management, but I'd just close/stop using cards at that point.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

okurosetta — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 18:25:48 GMT

@Vash1 wrote:
Most here have either a cashback or travel rewards strategy. Whats the value of your strategy worth each month to you (or quarter or year) relative to your spend? Also explain your strategy (rotating categories, how many cards used to achieve it, etc)

I have a mixed strategy. I started with no AF cashback cards and still have a solid cashback core that I could revert back to, should I no longer enjoy reward points. I also frequently use 5% cashback cards in cases where I would not earn better through points cards - Amazon, Target, entertainment, recreation, internet/streaming, and utilities, plus rotating categories when appropriate.

P2 and I travel a decent amount, staying elsewhere for 56 nights in 2023. The vast majority of our trips are 1-2 nights. We live in the northeast and frequently travel to NYC, Boston, Montreal, or elsewhere in the region for shows. Combining lots of trips that are short and often in major cities, our personal experience has been that hotel points/certificates are valuable, for us.

I have shifted my focus to earning Citi TYP via spend, as we have seen particularly good value from transferring Citi TYP to Choice Privileges thanks to its 1:2 transfer ratio if one holds Citi Premier. I hold 2x Custom Cash which I spend close to the $500 cap on each month, being able to move charges that go over if I misjudge since I use Curve. I have both Custom Cash set for a payment date on the 27th, making their spending caps reset on the 2nd-4th of each month. I start using Bilt for dining once I am over the Custom Cash caps, already hitting 5 transactions before Rent Day this cycle.

This is just scratching the surface for my strategy, and it would be a wall of text to calculate my overall return, especially because we hit many sign-up bonuses each year, currently working on one each between P2 and me. But to make a point without rambling much longer, you will figure out a strategy over time, and it will change over time. It took time for me to try out different points systems before finding one that works well for us, plus it took time to acquire the cards to efficiently earn those specific points.

Re: How Much Is Your Strategy Worth?

ptatohed — Wed, 06 Mar 2024 18:40:21 GMT

@redpat wrote:
Well for those that have business spend it is better to gather points/miles than CB, points/miles are not taxable.

Worth, none....Free travel, yes, since about 80% of the points come from business spend.

As for time spent, very little only using two cards.

Just to be clear, cash back does not get taxed either.