topic Re: WF Autograph Journey in Credit Cards

CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

LADave — Thu, 30 Nov 2023 17:00:20 GMT

DoC: https://www.doctorofcredit.com/wells-fargo-to-launch-wells-fargo-autograph-journey-card-60000-points/

WF T&Cs: https://www.wellsfargo.com/credit-cards/autograph-journey-visa/terms/

WF Benefits page: https://www.wellsfargo.com/credit-cards/autograph-journey-visa/guide-to-benefits/

No date is given for when this will be released. The benefits appear to be almost identical to the vanilla Autograph, except for better travel protections (trip cancellation, lost baggage and accident insurance), a $95 AF and a 60K point SUB after spending $4K in 3 months.

Both Autograph cards appear to have identical points earnings outside the SUB.

This also coincides with news that WF is starting point transfer partners with the OG (no-AF) Autograph card on 12/10/23. No word yet if there will be differences between the old and new Autograph cards in how that system will work.

Edit: It looks like Wells Fargo has taken down the Terms and Conditions and benefits pages in the hour since I started this thread, or at least they've changed the links. I got the links from the DoC article.

WF Autograph Journey

Eagered2succeed — Thu, 30 Nov 2023 01:22:43 GMT

So rumor has it that Wells Fargo is releasing the Autograph journey which on the surface resembles the regular Autograph with a 95 annual fee. With it being so similar does everyone think the no annual fee Autograph will cease to exist? Do you think those with the no annual fee will be grandfathered into this one or will there be separate tiers like how CapOne does? I just wish they wouldn't have nerfed my Propel card.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/wells-fargo-to-launch-wells-fargo-autograph-journey-card-60000-points/

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

pizzadude — Fri, 01 Dec 2023 03:23:26 GMT

Moving to Credit Cards for better visibility

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

LADave — Sat, 02 Dec 2023 23:42:53 GMT

@Eagered2succeedit looks like the original Autograph card will stay available. This makes sense - I think I've seen more promotions for it in the last month than I've seen in the entire time before that. (I was surprised to see an Autograph ad on Peacock when I paused a show about a week ago.)

The Points Guy has confirmed more details for Autograph Journey. They also refuted several details that DoC reported earlier:

Autograph Journey is coming in 2024
TPG's sources say that an annual fee has NOT been confirmed
WF Points earnings will be more lucrative than the no-AF Autograph
SUB has not been confirmed, and any SUB reported earlier was just speculation

(In addition to higher points per dollar of spend, I'm also curious if points transferred from Autograph Journey will be done at more favorable rates than with the no-AF Autograph.)

TPG also has updates about new products/features:

Transfer partners will now launch in 2024. The earlier dates given by WF were December 10, 2023, and November 15, 2023 before that. (Wells Fargo's previous statements about transfer partners has been contradictory, and often without follow-up corrections when the original deadline was missed.)
Other cards are coming in 2024. (WF appears to be preparing to launch what might be a series of "Signify" business credit cards.)

Despite their missteps with their transfer partners announcements, Wells Fargo does appear to be gunning for American Express and Chase territory, and the additional competition is welcome.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

Citylights18 — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 05:28:43 GMT

Unfortunate that Wells won't release the travel partners until 2024 but the longer they delay the chance of them being better is there.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

LADave — Sun, 03 Dec 2023 06:20:31 GMT

@Citylights18 wrote:
Unfortunate that Wells won't release the travel partners until 2024 but the longer they delay the chance of them being better is there.

Maybe. It could be that they're trying to line up better transfer partners or more favorable agreements. Or perhaps they already have those agreements and they're delaying it to have a better launch of the Autograph Journey.

I was holding a couple months' worth of points until Saturday in hopes that maybe I could get a few thousand more American Airlines miles in exchange for them. I decided it didn't make sense to change my usual strategy of saving rewards dollars in a travel fund until I find out who the WF transfer partners are.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

lagr — Thu, 21 Dec 2023 06:34:21 GMT

@Eagered2succeed wrote:
wish they wouldn't have nerfed my Propel card

Are there really any major disadvantages about how it changed from an Amex to a Visa card? I haven't noticed any differences myself. I just checked and it still gives me 50% more point value redeeming for airfare for having it paired with the ole WF Visa Signature card just like it did with the Propel. I like that I can use it more places that do not take Amex now, like some international for example. The only thing I ever disliked about it is it doesn't work well in parking gates due to being a metal card. Seems to be a similar metal as before. Interested to see if I can use those points with transfer partners down the road. Sometimes I think I might like a card with lounge access but honestly I don't fly a lot and love the simplicity of this card compared to the famous ones like Chase which has fee shenanigans and requirements to travel annually to make it worth it.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

Eagered2succeed — Sun, 24 Dec 2023 15:52:28 GMT

Yes. It use to have Amex offers which opened you up to a whole lot of great cashback offers just like a regular Amex card.

@lagr wrote:
@Eagered2succeed wrote:
wish they wouldn't have nerfed my Propel card

Are there really any major disadvantages about how it changed from an Amex to a Visa card? I haven't noticed any differences myself. I just checked and it still gives me 50% more point value redeeming for airfare for having it paired with the ole WF Visa Signature card just like it did with the Propel. I like that I can use it more places that do not take Amex now, like some international for example. The only thing I ever disliked about it is it doesn't work well in parking gates due to being a metal card. Seems to be a similar metal as before. Interested to see if I can use those points with transfer partners down the road. Sometimes I think I might like a card with lounge access but honestly I don't fly a lot and love the simplicity of this card compared to the famous ones like Chase which has fee shenanigans and requirements to travel annually to make it worth it.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

LADave — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:54:20 GMT

I've just noticed a Reddit post noting new details for Autograph Journey and a small business card, from someone who claims to have a source at the bank. Without further confirmation, this should perhaps be taken for entertainment purposes only:

To be released in March

5X points hotels

4X points airlines

3X points travel/restaurants

1X points everything else

$50 annual airline credit

$95 annual fee ($45 effective after airline credit)

No confirmation in the post about SUB, transfer partners or other benefits. WF points can currently be cashed out at 1 cent per point. There were also some scant details about an upcoming business card in the post, which I've posted about here.

IMO, it seems likely that transfer partners will be coming soon, including for the no-AF Autograph card. It will be interesting to see if one of the benefits of the AF Journey card would be some kind of multiplier for transfer partners, to help make the AF a better value.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

swankytiger — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 02:49:22 GMT

@LADave wrote:
I've just noticed a Reddit post noting new details for Autograph Journey and a small business card, from someone who claims to have a source at the bank. Without further confirmation, this should perhaps be taken for entertainment purposes only:

To be released in March
5X points hotels
4X points airlines
3X points travel/restaurants
1X points everything else
$50 annual airline credit
$95 annual fee ($45 effective after airline credit)

No confirmation in the post about SUB, transfer partners or other benefits. WF points can currently be cashed out at 1 cent per point. There were also some scant details about an upcoming business card in the post, which I've posted about here.

IMO, it seems likely that transfer partners will be coming soon, including for the no-AF Autograph card. It will be interesting to see if one of the benefits of the AF Journey card would be some kind of multiplier for transfer partners, to help make the AF a better value.

if true, WF didnt come to play with this card and it is a major shot across the bow of other big travel cards. also those multis read like that would be a high tier card. aka a $95 af is way too low. those multis are for a $450+ card.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

LADave — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 04:19:31 GMT

@swankytiger wrote:
@LADave wrote:
I've just noticed a Reddit post noting new details for Autograph Journey and a small business card, from someone who claims to have a source at the bank. Without further confirmation, this should perhaps be taken for entertainment purposes only:

To be released in March
5X points hotels
4X points airlines
3X points travel/restaurants
1X points everything else
$50 annual airline credit
$95 annual fee ($45 effective after airline credit)

No confirmation in the post about SUB, transfer partners or other benefits. WF points can currently be cashed out at 1 cent per point. There were also some scant details about an upcoming business card in the post, which I've posted about here.

IMO, it seems likely that transfer partners will be coming soon, including for the no-AF Autograph card. It will be interesting to see if one of the benefits of the AF Journey card would be some kind of multiplier for transfer partners, to help make the AF a better value.
if true, WF didnt come to play with this card and it is a major shot across the bow of other big travel cards. also those multis read like that would be a high tier card. aka a $95 af is way too low. those multis are for a $450+ card.

IMHO, they couldn't do much more than that because of the 3X multipliers that are already on the no-AF card that the Journey will reportedly match.

Leaving out other benefits that the card might offer (and there might be some compelling ones), you'd have to spend $4500 on airlines or $2250 on hotels (or a combination of those two) to have the effective $45 AF pay for itself with the extra earnings on flights and rooms.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

LADave — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 05:13:17 GMT

@LADave wrote:
I've just noticed a Reddit post noting new details for Autograph Journey and a small business card, from someone who claims to have a source at the bank. Without further confirmation, this should perhaps be taken for entertainment purposes only:

To be released in March
5X points hotels
4X points airlines
3X points travel/restaurants
1X points everything else
$50 annual airline credit
$95 annual fee ($45 effective after airline credit)

Amazingly, every one of those details is panning out, including the March release date. Confirmed by Wells Fargo's own press release that came out today:

https://newsroom.wf.com/English/news-releases/news-release-details/2024/Wells-Fargo-to-Launch-Autograph-Journey-Card-Designed-for-Frequent-Travelers/default.aspx

It's also going to have the expected 60,000 point SUB for $4K in spend in the first 3 months. Wells Fargo Points have a value of 1 cent for cash back. The long-delayed "Points Transfer" service finally launches April 4, with initial launch partners that include Choice Privileges, Air France‑KLM Flying Blue, avianca lifemiles (sic?), British Airways Executive Club, AerClub, and Iberia Plus. It's not clear if that's the complete list of initial transfer partners, but WF promises that more partners will be added through the year.

The Proud Money YouTube channel notes that the points are transferable 1:1 to all of the above partners except for Choice at 1:2 (since Choice points aren't as valuable as the others), and that rewards from Active Cash and the OG no-AF Autograph are transferable to Wells Fargo Points.Those who were hoping that WF's deal might give them access to Bilt transfer partners will probably be disappointed, but there are a lot of possibilities with just those launch partners.

There are no foreign transfer fees. Cell phone insurance is included, and while cell phone service and streaming are apparently not bonus categories like they are with the OG Autograph, the amount of coverage is more generous ($1K per claim vs $600, with the same $25 deductible). Travel protections look very good for a card with an effective $45 AF: "Travel protection benefits, including trip cancellation, which allows you to get reimbursed up to $15,000 for lodging, flights, and activities if the trip is canceled for a covered reason." Business Insider reports that it also includes lost luggage replacement and primary rental car insurance outside the U.S. (secondary inside the U.S.).

According to another Business Insider piece, applications start on March 9 (this Saturday) at select Wells Fargo Bank locations, and the card will be available nationwide (including online) on March 20.

My take: The SUB is quite generous, and if you're booking a lot of travel directly with hotels and airlines, getting 4X or 5X back on spending is quite attractive. It does not include TSA Pre Check or Priority Pass, but I wasn't really expecting those on a $95 AF card. If you're not doing a lot of traveling, the no-AF Autograph card might be a better fit (it's done well by me for enhanced earnings on mobile service and streaming), especially if and when they bring back the 30,000 point SUB on that card. But while it will get the same point transfer system that Autograph Journey will get, I'm not realistically expecting WF to raise the no-AF Autograph SUB during the Autograph Journey launch, especially since they had a higher SUB only a few months ago.

One thing the no-AF Autograph has that the Journey doesn't is 3X points on gas and vehicle charging, transit, rideshare and parking. An interesting competitor to both Autograph cards is the no-AF AAA Travel Advantage Visa by Bread/Comenity, which gets 5% cash back on gas/charging and 3% on travel. But it doesn't seem to come with travel insurance - probably not surprising, since AAA offices are known for selling that.

Overall, Autograph Journey looks like a very competitive card for frequent travelers. If they play their cards right (pun intended), we could start to see them as a threat to banks like Chase and Capital One, especially if they can get one or two big domestic airlines as transfer partners.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

okurosetta — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 15:32:01 GMT

I am excited to see the 1:2 transfer ratio to Choice Privileges, if only because it suggests that the Citi Premier can continue to support the 1:2 transfer ratio. I have wondered if the transfer ratio would be nerfed, so seeing it on another card is a relief.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

notmyrealname23 — Thu, 07 Mar 2024 20:44:39 GMT

This + the Autograph going to being a transferable points card feels like a chance to change some strategy on my part, I might want to strip down some annual fees.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

NoHardLimits — Fri, 08 Mar 2024 18:32:40 GMT

I'm seriously considering coming out of the garden for the Autograph Journey card. It's got a nice sized signup bonus, and 5x points (min 5% cashback) on hotels would be better than any of my current cards. I don't have any cards from Wells Fargo, so I don't need to worry about running into any maximum extended credit limit thresholds. I also have a previous 20+ year relationship with Wells Fargo through 3 separate mortgage loans going back to the 1990's. So, I think my approval odds with a decent SL are about as good as it will ever be. I would just plan to wait until I reach the 0/12 mark for new accounts and inquiries which would occur next month.

I'm still unsure of a couple specifics and would be looking for data points once people start getting approved for this card (applications are supposed to open tomorrow in selected markets). I would like clarification on the $50 annual credit. The Wells Fargo press release describes it as for "airfare", but many bloggers are referring to it as "airline". To me "airfare" means a plane ticket, while "airline" can mean many things like checked bag fees and upgraded seat assignments. The other thing I haven't seen is whether or not there is a minimum redemption amount for cash value (either a statement credit or deposit to a bank account).

So for those of you early adopters, I'd appreciate it if you would chime in with your data points. TIA!

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

okurosetta — Fri, 08 Mar 2024 18:33:43 GMT

@notmyrealname23 wrote:
This + the Autograph going to being a transferable points card feels like a chance to change some strategy on my part, I might want to strip down some annual fees.

I am very curious to see if the no fee Autograph has the same transfer partners and ratios. I have an Autograph that was converted from Propel that has been sockdrawered for quite some time, waiting to see if anything would change with it. If I am able to swipe for 3X and convert that to 6X Choice on a no fee card, that would be amazing, and would be especially nice to bring use to a sockdrawered card.

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

GZG — Fri, 08 Mar 2024 18:37:49 GMT

do any other cards have $1k cellphone protection on them?

Re: CONFIRMED: New Wells Fargo “Autograph Journey” card

LADave — Sun, 10 Mar 2024 16:44:18 GMT

@GZG wrote:
do any other cards have $1k cellphone protection on them?

Chase Ink Business Preferred does, and since it's a business card it covers employees. It also has a $95 AF.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

Aim_High — Sun, 10 Mar 2024 23:39:08 GMT

Thanks for this update, @LADave. Quite interesting, especially with the travel partners and possibilities. British Airways Avios are worth up to 1.5 cpp and Avianca Life Miles up to 1.7 cpp. If the transfer are 1:1, and if Active Cash earnings could be converted to pooled points, a Wells Fargo trifecta of Autograph Journey, Autograph OG, and Active Cash could earn:

For British Airways redemption:

Hotels 5x (5 x 1.5) = 7.5%

Airfare 4x (4 x 1.5) = 6%

General Travel 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Dining 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Transit 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Gas 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Streaming 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Phone Plans 3x (3 x 1.5) = 4.5%

Uncategoried spend 2% (2 x 1.5) = 3% (Active Cash)

The value goes up even more on Avianca Life Miles redemptions:

Hotels 5x (5 x 1.7) = 8.5%

Airfare 4x (4 x 1.7) = 6.8%

General Travel 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Dining 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Transit 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Gas 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Streaming 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Phone Plans 3x (3 x 1.7) = 5.1%

Uncategoried spend 2% (2 x 1.7) = 3.4% (Active Cash)

That covers a lot of heavier spending categories, just mainly leaving out groceries for a higher multiplier. The base 3%-plus on value with travel partners uncapped on all uncategoried spend (on an effective $45 AF card) is very competitive.

Re: WF Autograph Journey

LADave — Wed, 20 Mar 2024 22:42:22 GMT

It's March 20, and as promised, WF is accepting online applications for the Autograph Journey:

https://creditcards.wellsfargo.com/autograph-journey-visa-credit-card/

I'm not applying for any new personal credit at the moment, but I'm very curious what the DPs will look like on application approvals/denials.