topic Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show in Credit Cards

Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 18:33:47 GMT

I recently had to file a dispute with Chase for a credit card charge (Chase Sapphire Reserve) that was not refunded following return of the merchandise received. The return was fully authorized by the merchant, and everything I did was in accordance with the merhcant's policies. The merchandise was shipped back to the merchant via UPS, and tracking information verified that it was received. I sent the merchandise back in its original packaging, and it was never used.

Chase has already issued a (temporary) credit to my account for the disputed amount.

Chase calls me up today and says indirectly, they need more proof of the return being recieived by the merchant, since the merchant is saying that they never received the return item. Chase is asking me for more proof, apart from what I have provided (tracking info with proof of delivery)

Chase wants more proof, which can include:
Something in writing from the merchant that they have received the return ( I wouldnt be disputing the charge otherwise).

Im lost, does this seem normal? This return is almost $6k and the merchant is fighting hard that they havent received the return, they have provided no evidence on their end to confirm this.

Ive done a CB with Amex before, and the process was so simple and easy.. Never once they called me requesting more information.

Ive been a Chase customer for almost a decade now.

Any suggestions on how to handle this. The rep on the phone was pretty adamant that I will loose the case, if I cant provide more information as per Visa guidelines for a CB.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

PQ810 — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:34:50 GMT

If Chase did a refund or partial, why did you dispute the charge and . That's a red flag to the Chase. The issue should've been addressed with the merchant! Just my observation. 6k in merchandise did you insure it with UPS? Something of that value would've needed a signature. Good luck in your fight. But is your burden to prove not Chase's.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 19:43:14 GMT

No where in my post did I say Chase refunded me.

They issued me a temp credit, as part of the chargeback process.

I shipped the items using the return label provided by the merchant via UPS, followed their return policy after the return was authorized to be returned by the merchant. The return has a proof of delivery, signed by their return dept.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

Thomas_Thumb — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:13:52 GMT

This thread should be moved to the credit card forum.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

coldfusion — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 12:52:22 GMT

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
This thread should be moved to the credit card forum.

You or any other member are free to left-click on the 3 dots on the upper right of a post and choose the "report inappropriate content" option, then explain why you think the thread should be moved and the site moderators will be notified. While the option is labeled as for reporting inappropriate content it's really meant to be appropriate whenever you want to alert the site moderators to something related to the individual post or to the thread. If a moderator agrees that there's something actionable they'll take care of it.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

Spotsy — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 13:14:47 GMT

@nitrous if you have confirmation and proof that someone from the seller signed for the product return, and have the details of their RMA process that was followed correctly....that's your proof. You may need to put all of that together for Chase and respond with it to their request for more info.

if the manufacturer is saying they never got it...your signed delivery receipt is your proof. Engage the shipper with the seller's claim that it was never received and see if that produces any more useful info from the shipper. If the manufacturer is claiming you sent back the wrong thing...they need to provide proof of what was sent and why it is incorrect. Did you take pictures of what you returned?

If Chase decides to reverse your refund, you can next file a complaint against the seller in Small Claims court as well as see what remedy you have in your CC agreement on the charge back situation....maybe Aribitration?

Keep the process going to hopefully a desired end result . But keep paying the charge until it's resolved to keep,your credit standing in tact. Don't proverbally 'cut your nose off to spite your face'' by not paying the charged amount . You did provide the auth to charge your CC for the product, so the issue is between you and the seller. Chase can try to assist as well, but they will/can only go so far...Chase does want to help.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:00:28 GMT

@Spotsy The tracking number shows:
Received By: xxx RETURNS

UPS wont deal with me, becuase they said I am not the shipper. Seller just keeps claiming they never received it.

Now is it possible, that UPS actually misdelivered and/or lost it, there is a chance, but I dont know.

Chase keeps telling me, according to VISA guidelines, one of the evidence is a written proof, such as a email from the seller/merchant, that they received the items.

The only other proof I do have is text messages from the client advisor, confirming that the items were shipped back using the label they provided and then confirming a few days later, that items were received and it takes 3-5 business days to process a refund.

According to Chase, this is not a strong evidence, as the text message cant be proved whether it was from Fendi, but in the beginning of the text message, a client advisor introduced themself to me from the seller and even followed up with me via text message for my return.
Chase team, handling my chargeback, are off shore, and the person working on this, seems to be more on the seller side... I have no other proof to provide other than what I have already provided:

Tracking # with proof of delivery (seller provided return label)
Text message from the seller confirming the return and tracking number

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

pizzadude — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:05:58 GMT

Moved to Credit Cards

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

Spotsy — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:17:14 GMT

That is your proof...especially since the seller provided the return shipping. You have proof that you shipped it via the tracking number....you also have proof they received it (was that an email you received or a voicemail, text message?)

if the seller is saying the never received it or it was miss-delivered...that is between the seller and the shipper since they provided the return material and shipping service. Chase can not put that burden of proof on your shoulders.

Be very specific with Chase and provide as much details as possible.

still think about a small claims action...that usually get attention.

-Rob

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 14:30:47 GMT

@Spotsy
I have proof only via a text message from one of their client advisor that they received it.

But it doesnt have to get that far, with the return tracking number and proof of delivery, Chase is asking for me, since seller is saying that they never received it.

They will dispute again with the seller, they said, but it seems like Chase is asking for proof, that Visa considers strong for a successful chargeback?

Isnt a tracking number showing delivered and proof of delivery showing it was signed by merchant return enough?

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

ptatohed — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 06:19:26 GMT

I would just oblige to their request for more info and put together a complete single file PDF package of everything you have. And I mean everything. A copy of the sellers return policy with checkmarks next to each of the procedures. Include a copy of the shipping return date, the tracking, the received date, the signature, etc. If you can present the tracking in multiple ways (UPS's website, a tracking e-mail you received), double up. A screen shot of the texts. Copies of any other correspondence you have with the seller (e-mails?). I would even include a separate document with timelines of every step you took and when. Pictures of the packaged/labeled return would be great if you took any? Phone call logs of dates, times, who you spoke to, what was said. I would label at the top each and every document in your packet. Place the documents/evidence that is most compelling first, but do include more than what you originally sent in order to satisfy Chase's request for more info.

If they signed for it, and you used their provided label, I don't see how they can say they never received it. What they can say is the box contained bricks instead of the $6000 widget. In that case, the burden of proof is on them to prove you sent back bricks. This is why it's helpful to take pictures of your return before you bring it to UPS (not that you couldn't then switch it out for bricks, but it helps). If the shipping weight is on the return shipping/tracking/delivery info, highlight that it's the same weight as the ship to you weight (again, you could have put the perfect weight in bricks, but every little thing, collectively, can help defend your case).

Do you have direct correspondence from the seller telling you they never received it? Or are you only hearing this from Chase? I would recommend using e-mail going forward with the seller, not text.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 17:04:27 GMT

@ptatohed

I appreciate your response.

I wished I had taken pictures of it, I never knew this wouldve been an issue, as it never has been in the past.

Right now the only proof I have is:
Tracking info (their provided label, the weight on it shows 1lb smh)

Text messages from when I got in touch with the person who placed my online order

When I called in, after the person said they have received it via text message waiting 5 days for a refund, they then said they never received it and I then started a dispute with Chase.
There response is still that they never received the return, so they cant credit me.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

FicoMike0 — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 02:30:29 GMT

Maybe you should claim you never received the shipment. Btw, what is this $6000 mystery package?

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

AwsiDooger — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:02:06 GMT

@nitrous wrote:
The return has a proof of delivery, signed by their return dept.

Go to the media, print and broadcast. That is easily the most overlooked remedy in a situation like this. It has never let me down.

The companies want to bully behind the scenes. They are terrified of negative publicity, especially if delivered passionately and authoritatively by someone the audience views as a trustworthy peer.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

markhs777 — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 06:09:27 GMT

Whenever I have an issue with a merchant and don't get the desired results going through the process I email my case directly to the CEO's office. Send all your proof and you usually get a quick response. It has worked for me several times. If it's a legit company they will work to resolve the problem.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

ptatohed — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 06:33:35 GMT

@nitrous wrote:
@ptatohed
I appreciate your response.
I wished I had taken pictures of it, I never knew this wouldve been an issue, as it never has been in the past.
Right now the only proof I have is:
Tracking info (their provided label, the weight on it shows 1lb smh)
Text messages from when I got in touch with the person who placed my online order

When I called in, after the person said they have received it via text message waiting 5 days for a refund, they then said they never received it and I then started a dispute with Chase.
There response is still that they never received the return, so they cant credit me.

nitro,

I understand you are frustrated and feel you already submitted what needs to be submitted and, if everything you told us is correct, it sounds like you have. But the reality is, Chase is requesting more information so I would send them more information. Send them everything you sent before and more. I included examples of what the 'more' could be above. The ball is in your court. If you resubmit with additional documentation, the ball is back in Chase's to review. I do think you will prevail. Just play the game.

Good advice above to also keep contacting the seller and going to upper management/the top.

GL.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

ocheosa — Sat, 29 Jun 2024 14:53:50 GMT

@nitrous wrote:
I recently had to file a dispute with Chase for a credit card charge (Chase Sapphire Reserve) that was not refunded following return of the merchandise received. The return was fully authorized by the merchant, and everything I did was in accordance with the merhcant's policies. The merchandise was shipped back to the merchant via UPS, and tracking information verified that it was received. I sent the merchandise back in its original packaging, and it was never used.

Chase has already issued a (temporary) credit to my account for the disputed amount.

Chase calls me up today and says indirectly, they need more proof of the return being recieived by the merchant, since the merchant is saying that they never received the return item. Chase is asking me for more proof, apart from what I have provided (tracking info with proof of delivery)
Chase wants more proof, which can include:
Something in writing from the merchant that they have received the return ( I wouldnt be disputing the charge otherwise).

Im lost, does this seem normal? This return is almost $6k and the merchant is fighting hard that they havent received the return, they have provided no evidence on their end to confirm this.

Ive done a CB with Amex before, and the process was so simple and easy.. Never once they called me requesting more information.
Ive been a Chase customer for almost a decade now.

Any suggestions on how to handle this. The rep on the phone was pretty adamant that I will loose the case, if I cant provide more information as per Visa guidelines for a CB.

@nitrous

On the UPS website you should be able to download the UPS proof of delivery letter that has the actual name and signature of the person who accepted the package.* Also, call UPS and let them know you are the buyer/shipper (prepaid return label) and you want to open a possible fraud investigation. Let them know you have the proof of delivery but the seller is stating the package was not received. They will do an investigation and provide the results. Let them know you would like a copy of the results to provide to your credit card company and to use for future court proceedings if it should come to that. I had to do something similar for a Samsung delivery that went wrong once and yes they do talk to/work with the customer/shipper.

You should also let Chase know you have asked UPS to open an investigation when you forward the proof of delivery document. Disputes can sometimes be a pain but be persistent, take good notes of everything, date time and who you spoke with, follow up calls, emails, letters...everything. Just in case you need to seek legal remedy. Good luck!

*IIRC you need to log in to retrieve the actual signed POD document. If you don't have an account it's easy to sign up.

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

GreatLife — Sun, 30 Jun 2024 04:51:36 GMT

The sellers return shipping label should've included insurance and certainly not your fault that it didn't.

Years ago a seller did this to me and the Ebay "investigation" went nowhere so I filed complaints with my state's Attorney General and the FTC to get my money back from the seller. Some good advice from the forum members and hopefully Chase will soon get this resolved for you. Good Luck

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 20:03:02 GMT

@FicoMike0 2 luxury hand bags from a designer store

Re: Credit card dispute with Chase, horror show

nitrous — Mon, 01 Jul 2024 20:03:37 GMT

@AwsiDooger That might be my last avenue, if the outcome doesnt go in my favour