topic Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime? in Credit Cards

Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:41:05 GMT

If so, does one get big score increases with prime cards compared to sub prime cards?

Message Edited by DI on 10-14-2009 01:41 PM

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:52:07 GMT

A bank card is a bank card as far as FICO is concerned. However, a LO knows the difference when your account is MR'ed.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:02:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
A bank card is a bank card as far as FICO is concerned. However, a LO knows the difference when your account is MR'ed.

Ok. Unless being recon, the chances of being MR'ed for credit cards are slim to none. If the computer isn't biased to whether or not an applicant has a prime or sub prime card, why is so much emphasis is placed on the two?

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:14:53 GMT

The difference between prime cards and subprime cards is in the policies that come along with them. Subprime cards tend to have: higher APR's, AF's, service charges for performing regular tasks (like rendering payment), higher service charges in general, CL caps, inability to obtain CLI, stingy CLI's when possible, inability to PC, etc. Issuers with a subprime mentality are very difficult to deal with. It is so much more pleasant to deal with prime issuers.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:38:11 GMT

I actually asked this particular question to my banker friend and he told me something that has stayed with me for years.

He said as far as they were concerned, there are NO "SUB PRIME or PRIME CARDS" only "SUB PRIME or PRIME CUSTOMERS". He stated that a person with a low limit credit card that handles it well, lives withing their financial means and always pays on time, is a far better customer then a person with a High limit credit cards, who misses payments, is late, and lives on credit.

Something tells me this is the philosphy that most bankers have.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:43:22 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I actually asked this particular question to my banker friend and he told me something that has stayed with me for years.

He said as far as they were concerned, there are NO "SUB PRIME or PRIME CARDS" only "SUB PRIME or PRIME CUSTOMERS". He stated that a person with a low limit credit card that handles it well, lives withing their financial means and always pays on time, is a far better customer then a person with a High limit credit cards, who misses payments, is late, and lives on credit.

Something tells me this is the philosphy that most bankers have.

That's exactly how I feel!! The sub prime and prime name should be placed on the customers rather than the card. Thanks DickC!!

Message Edited by DI on 10-14-2009 02:43 PM

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 19:57:13 GMT

I wonder if people slamming sub-prime cards is just a shorthand version of “I don’t want to deal with their practices” (i.e. I don’t want to pay an annual fee).

FICO just wants a bank card--any bank card. DH FICO went up 28 points with his first bank card (subprime Orchard $500 CL) and mine went up 20 points with my matching card. FICO Happy-happy-joy-joy Land. DH didn’t receive any FICO applause when he added his prime cards. We just like them better.

As a sidenote, our mortgage app was manually reviewed and my subprime Orchard (which I like), wasn’t denigrated at all by the bank mortgage officer. Just got an “Okay good – you’ve got a bank card.” Me, apologetically – “Yea, I know, it’s HSBC.” He, approvingly “Fine – as long as you have a bank card.”

Dunno if that’s helpful – I was pleasantly surprised at the time, though.

*******

And again, we're back to the lovely dependable FICO Codes. There is a FICO code for having a bank card. There are no FICO codes that segregate prime and subprime bank cards. It's not on the FICO scorecard. Which is why a subprime bank card scores better than a CU card - and why only part of why we choose cards may be attached to FICO scoring. We might choose a card with one eye watching the FICO gods and the other eye watching all the other criteria that make our financial lives run smoothly.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:04:19 GMT

I never had a so called subprime card before, so I'm unsure how the banks that issues those cards operates. But, the AF's and other fees associated with subprime cards is enough to deter me from wanting to ever have one as a rebuilder.

Message Edited by DI on 10-14-2009 03:04 PM

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:19:42 GMT

Ha-ha!!! DI - you're so far away from rebuilder land!!!

That's why I shudder when people talk about FP - their fees are outlandish and they basically chew through your cash, your CL and your utilization from day one until the bitter end. I think there are a few others out there as well. And that's why I like my Orchard. AF $39. Never paid interest (but the interest rate is a somewhat decent 11.99%) or any other fees. CLI's are slow but consistent. DH is done with his in less than a year. I'll probably go for two years. Very useful rebuilder card for me.

I wonder if there's Prime, Sub-Prime and Bottom-scumming Sub-Prime.........

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Watchmann — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:21:03 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I actually asked this particular question to my banker friend and he told me something that has stayed with me for years.

He said as far as they were concerned, there are NO "SUB PRIME or PRIME CARDS" only "SUB PRIME or PRIME CUSTOMERS". He stated that a person with a low limit credit card that handles it well, lives withing their financial means and always pays on time, is a far better customer then a person with a High limit credit cards, who misses payments, is late, and lives on credit.

Something tells me this is the philosphy that most bankers have.
That's exactly how I feel!! The sub prime and prime name should be placed on the customers rather than the card. Thanks DickC!!
Message Edited by DI on 10-14-2009 02:43 PM

Agree with all that, but let's be realistic, it is not PC to put a stamp like 'subprime' on an indvidual anymore since we have now been told it is not their fault they have lousy credit. Nowadays it is the fault of the system, or situations out of their control. They are just innocent bystanders who have become a victim of circumstances. Flame suit on ....

Message Edited by Watchmann on 10-14-2009 03:21 PM

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:10:49 GMT

"I'm a victim of circumstance!" (Why do I hear echoes of The Three Stooges in the back of my mind...)

On a serious note, the subprime cards are for the subprime customers, be they victims of circumstance or not. And more likely these days subprime cards are issued by subprime issuers - not prime issuers. If you have a card issued by FP there's no path to success - just more of the same. Most posters here are accepting their FP experience for what it is good for and not seeking to prolong the relationship any longer than necessary.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

haulingthescoreup — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:49:59 GMT

As to the original question, the only differentiation that the FICO scoring formula makes is whether the card is issued by a bank with a national presence, for lack of a better term, or whether it's issued by a local bank or by a credit union.

I'm hoping that the next round of FICO score formulas will address this CU issue. To say that a First Premie card outranks a USAA or Alliant or Navy card just floors me.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:02:37 GMT

@haulingthescoreup wrote:
As to the original question, the only differentiation that the FICO scoring formula makes is whether the card is issued by a bank with a national presence, for lack of a better term, or whether it's issued by a local bank or by a credit union.

I'm hoping that the next round of FICO score formulas will address this CU issue. To say that a First Premie card outranks a USAA or Alliant or Navy card just floors me.

That very much does not seem right, does it?

This has to go back to an earlier day before all the bank consolidation occurred. All the issuers seem very homogeneous now.

Re: Can FICO really decipher whether a card is prime or subprime?

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:17:35 GMT

I think if we put all of our credit experiences together we may can get close to figuring out the FICO formula.