topic Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer in Credit Cards

Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Sat, 08 Feb 2025 19:05:14 GMT

This is really just a post in case anyone is searching for information on 0% balance transfer cards or the wells fargo reflect specifically. I have about 10k in credit card debt and have been playing the balance transfer game for a little bit to keep it largely interest free while I pay it down. Some of my 0% promos were expiring so I did a bit of a spree including a wells fargo reflect card which comes with 0% for 21 months on balance transfers and purchases.

I was approved for 5150 starting limit (low 700s fico 8 in all 3) which wasn't quite enough, but I also had a wells fargo active cash card with no balance and 4k limit. I googled information about credit limit reallocation and it seems WF allows it. A simple call and I moved 2350 over from active cash to the new reflect, so now it has 7500 limit, no waiting period, no pull or requirment for credit limit increase, no new limit on balance transfer offer, nothing, they just moved it in around 4 hours.

I used the new limit to deposit 5400 into my wells fargo checking account which I will use to PIF the expiring card promo balances, and it showed up in a day or two after the request. Very pain free way to use balance transfer and wells fargo made it even more useful by allowing a simple credit limit reallocation. Not often am I pleasantly surprised by banks but they did a good job on this one, well done Wells Fargo.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

GZG — Sun, 09 Feb 2025 02:16:07 GMT

Really nice BT, glad to see WF was able to do this for you seamlessly

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

ptatohed — Sun, 09 Feb 2025 03:57:05 GMT

Awesome, good for you. GL getting the debt paid off. It seems like you are on the right course to do so!

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

omgitsMatt — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 20:34:23 GMT

Thanks for sharing that information, that was something I was researching a few weeks ago in preparation for a few months from now.

Can you clarify further though, did you reallocate limits with a card you haven't used for anything in six months or more?

Older data points indicate that was once the case, I'm curious if you fit in that criteria where the card you took limits from wasn't used in a long time?

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Wed, 12 Feb 2025 23:05:39 GMT

The card I transfered tge credit limit from (active cash) had a previous balance on it for the past year so I think it would have been considered "active" even though I hadn't used it to make a purchase. I used funds from a balance transfer to pay it off before I initiated the credit limit reallocation so it had a 0 balance when I did the reallocation (0/3850). The order of operations was basically:

1. balance transfer from a new wells fargo reflect card with 21 mo promo into an existing WF checking account

2. pay down the balance on the active cash card until it reported 0

3. call WF for credit limit reallocation (2350) from active cash (0/3850) to reflect (4515/5150)

4. complete another balance transfer to wf checking using the increased credit limit on the reflect. (5670/7500)

Banks won't let you balance transfer within the same bank card to card, but they seem fine if you do the deposit into a checking account with a balance transfer and then use that money to pay down a card within their company, and its faster too. A bit of a dumb rule if it is so easy to bypass but whatever. The useful aspect of WF credit reallocation for me was that it increased the efficacy of the new reflect card's promo offer by increasing the credit limit on that new card above what they gave me as a starting limit.

For me, I needed the funds to pay off expiring BT promos so was willing to go to around 4500 on the 5150 starting limit, so I did a $4300 BT to checking, multiplied by 5% fee so 4515/5150 (87.6%). By reallocating another 2350 of credit limit to the reflect, the new limit was now 7500, so I completed another 1100 transfer which brought the total balance with fees to 5670/7500 (75.6%) which is my highest utilization on any card but it has 21 month 0% apr promo. The old active cash card was going to be $0 balance anyway, so now it is 0/1500 instead of being 0/3850, which is still 0% anyway.

So I ended up with a slightly decreased utilzation on the reflect, albeit with a higher balance, and the same 0% utilization on the active cash. Including other BT cards I now have 4 cards reporting balances with utilizations in the 40-80% range, but none are accruing interest, and 11 other cards reporting 0 balance, so the ratio isn't terrible and my overall utilization is 27% which squeeks under that 28.8% threshold for a score ding.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

ElvisCaprice — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 02:25:02 GMT

Ouch, those fees. No wonder Wells is accommodating.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

omgitsMatt — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 04:14:38 GMT

@JdsFico wrote:
The card I transfered tge credit limit from (active cash) had a previous balance on it for the past year so I think it would have been considered "active" even though I hadn't used it to make a purchase. I used funds from a balance transfer to pay it off before I initiated the credit limit reallocation so it had a 0 balance when I did the reallocation (0/3850). The order of operations was basically:

1. balance transfer from a new wells fargo reflect card with 21 mo promo into an existing WF checking account
2. pay down the balance on the active cash card until it reported 0
3. call WF for credit limit reallocation (2350) from active cash (0/3850) to reflect (4515/5150)
4. complete another balance transfer to wf checking using the increased credit limit on the reflect. (5670/7500)

Banks won't let you balance transfer within the same bank card to card, but they seem fine if you do the deposit into a checking account with a balance transfer and then use that money to pay down a card within their company, and its faster too. A bit of a dumb rule if it is so easy to bypass but whatever. The useful aspect of WF credit reallocation for me was that it increased the efficacy of the new reflect card's promo offer by increasing the credit limit on that new card above what they gave me as a starting limit.

For me, I needed the funds to pay off expiring BT promos so was willing to go to around 4500 on the 5150 starting limit, so I did a $4300 BT to checking, multiplied by 5% fee so 4515/5150 (87.6%). By reallocating another 2350 of credit limit to the reflect, the new limit was now 7500, so I completed another 1100 transfer which brought the total balance with fees to 5670/7500 (75.6%) which is my highest utilization on any card but it has 21 month 0% apr promo. The old active cash card was going to be $0 balance anyway, so now it is 0/1500 instead of being 0/3850, which is still 0% anyway.

So I ended up with a slightly decreased utilzation on the reflect, albeit with a higher balance, and the same 0% utilization on the active cash. Including other BT cards I now have 4 cards reporting balances with utilizations in the 40-80% range, but none are accruing interest, and 11 other cards reporting 0 balance, so the ratio isn't terrible and my overall utilization is 27% which squeeks under that 28.8% threshold for a score ding.

Thank you for sharing!

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Thu, 13 Feb 2025 04:17:52 GMT

yea 5% bt fee is kinda high but it helps that it's a one time fee for 21 months. Probably works out to around 3% apr which isn't that bad for a "loan". For instance, I could have taken $5500 and bought a cheap motorcycle with cash, paid it off over 21 months, and that'd be cheaper than whatever auto financing would want. Obviously it's not ideal to pay fees but I kinda cornered myself, it's the best option as of now if you don't include chargeoffs or chap 7 which I wasn't interested in.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

hdporter — Mon, 17 Feb 2025 03:48:14 GMT

Because a bt fee is assessed on the initial balance, rather than the average balance outstanding during the promo period, you're looking an effective cost that's likely double what you've estimated (i.e. more like 6% APR)

Not terrible, but not great eithet.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

KatzNDawgs — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 02:21:34 GMT

So WF doesn't consider a BT to checking account as a cash advance? If so, I was not aware of that.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

UncleB — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 05:50:44 GMT

@KatzNDawgs wrote:
So WF doesn't consider a BT to checking account as a cash advance? If so, I was not aware of that.

That's a "loophole" with many (most?) banks... unless you need cash immediately, let them BT to a checking account (or use a BT check) and it won't be considered a cash advance. Another perk is that BTs are usually not restricted to the account's cash advance limit.

It's an odd distinction, but apparently the bean counters employed by the banks have data that says those who go the BT route are less risky than those who go to an ATM or teller for the cash. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

KatzNDawgs — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 21:36:26 GMT

@UncleB wrote:
That's a "loophole" with many (most?) banks... unless you need cash immediately, let them BT to a checking account (or use a BT check) and it won't be considered a cash advance. Another perk is that BTs are usually not restricted to the account's cash advance limit.

It's an odd distinction, but apparently the bean counters employed by the banks have data that says those who go the BT route are less risky than those who go to an ATM or teller for the cash. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Interesting, thank you! Is there a list somewhere with known banks that do this? I had to take my dog in for emergency care a few years ago at the tune of 15k (thank goodness for insurance but need to wait for reimbursement). Since I hadn't used my USAA credit card in so long, the one I had in my wallet was expired. I called them to see what could be done, and they cash advanced (not BT) to my checking so I could use my debit card.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 01:32:33 GMT

@hdporter I didn't do the math at first but I figured because it was 5% on the initial balance, but the period is close to two years vs 1 year (21 months), it would be lower than 5% apr. I did a simple apr calculator on 5k at 5% (fee would be 250 over 21 months) and the apr to pay that off would be around 5.3% which would coincidentally also be a $250/month payment for 21 months, $5250. A BT does have the benefit of not requiring you to pay it off completely in 21 months but you're left with the balance, a similar loan of 5.3% or a BT that you paid $250 per month towards would both pay off in the same amount, so your estimate of 6% was definitely closer than my estimate of 3%. Still better than any balance at a 20+% apr that credit cards somehow are allowed to charge...

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

UncleB — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 01:55:13 GMT

@KatzNDawgs wrote:
@UncleB wrote:
That's a "loophole" with many (most?) banks... unless you need cash immediately, let them BT to a checking account (or use a BT check) and it won't be considered a cash advance. Another perk is that BTs are usually not restricted to the account's cash advance limit.

It's an odd distinction, but apparently the bean counters employed by the banks have data that says those who go the BT route are less risky than those who go to an ATM or teller for the cash. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Interesting, thank you! Is there a list somewhere with known banks that do this? I had to take my dog in for emergency care a few years ago at the tune of 15k (thank goodness for insurance but need to wait for reimbursement). Since I hadn't used my USAA credit card in so long, the one I had in my wallet was expired. I called them to see what could be done, and they cash advanced (not BT) to my checking so I could use my debit card.

USAA is a special case when it comes to cash advances... they don't have a separate APR and credit line for cash advances, just the cash advance fee. Just keep in mind that with a cash advance you lose your grace period, so unlike if you had used your card interest starts accruing immediately.

As for a list of banks that don't treat BTs as cash advances, so far all the banks I've used have been consistent in that none have. I've done BTs with NFCU (multiple), Discover, USAA (multiple), Truist, Wells Fargo, PNC (multiple), BoA (multiple) and it's been the same with all of them - the BT balance is separated out on my statement (usually with a promo APR). I've also received BT promo offers from Citi, Chase, and U.S. Bank and the offers indicate they would work the same way, so it might be easier to list the banks who are outliers (so far I've never dealt with one that is).

Some folks warn against BT offers, and I agree that without discipline they can be problematic if one is tempted to overspend, but in my case they've come in handy numerous times (see above bank list, ha). I tend to make large planned purchases with cards that have a good cash back rate, then whatever fee is charged by the BT bank is mostly cancelled out (occasionally I even have a little left over if the BT promo is good enough).

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 03:08:59 GMT

The distinction with some of the banks though is if they allow BT to a checking account. I'm not sure how common that aspect is, a lot want you to enter the account/credit card for them to pay the funds to. I know discover lets you deposit to checking account, might just vary based on which cards you use for BT. I have a Citi diamond and I think it wanted to pay directly to a credit card with a balance but don't remember exactly. WF reflect comes with checks and obviously can go right into checking account.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

UncleB — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 03:31:32 GMT

@JdsFico wrote:
The distinction with some of the banks though is if they allow BT to a checking account. I'm not sure how common that aspect is, a lot want you to enter the account/credit card for them to pay the funds to. I know discover lets you deposit to checking account, might just vary based on which cards you use for BT. I have a Citi diamond and I think it wanted to pay directly to a credit card with a balance but don't remember exactly. WF reflect comes with checks and obviously can go right into checking account.

This is very true.

I've received checks from most of my banks, and you'll also find the occasional oddball like PNC that adds a restriction that checks be made payable only to a business (how/if that is actually enforced is questionable, but I wouldn't want to test it).

Come to think of it, I think the only card I have who has not sent me checks is Citi, even though they pester me at least weekly with a BT promo offer. Until recently I could have also said Chase, but just a week or so ago I received some checks from them as well (for the first time).

I used to prefer using the checks (considering it simpler) but now I usually just let the bank send over the BT themselves (it's impossible for that to bounce). Since I PIF most cards each month it's easy enough to just let the BT pay off one of the PIF cards, then use the funds I had earmarked for that payment on whatever I needed the BT for.

Re: Credit limit reallocation with Wells Fargo Reflect 0% Balance Transfer

JdsFico — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 03:52:49 GMT

@UncleB I haven't used the checks but I've been sent them with a few cards. I prefer the deposit into a checking account method but I had to call them for that, although it actually worked faster than a BT paying another card's balance for me. The deposit into a checking account was overnight and one card paying another is like a week to post sometimes.

The other benefit of the checking account route is that you could pay a card within that same bank. They specifically say you can't use BT within the same bank, like a wells fargo reflect BT to pay a wells fargo active cash card balance, but once it is in the checking account you can use it within the same bank anyway. Might be more useful on some of the premier travel cards like using a Chase freedom unlimited balance transfer to pay towards a big balance on a chase saphire reserved. Obviously better to just PIF but if you dropped 15k on the card on some trip, used a BT to pay it off, then you'd have 12-24 months or whatever to pay off that 15k and still get all the points on the CSR.