topic Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th in Credit Cards

Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

AskPatient1281 — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 21:45:28 GMT

"earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase with no caps"
"earn up to an additional 2% cash back [the "Smartly Earning Bonus"] on your first $10,000 in eligible Net Purchases each billing cycle when paired with a U.S. Bank Smartly Savings account and average daily combined qualifying balances in U.S. Bank deposit, trust or investment accounts" with $100K+ in qualifying balance required for a total of 4% cash back
exclude* certain categories of purchases "from earning the Smartly Earning Bonus": (1) "Education/school, gift cards, insurance, or tax"; (2) "Business-to-business transactions (i.e., advertising services, construction material suppliers, etc.)"; and (3) "Transactions using third-party bill payment services." "These purchases will earn the base 2% cash back and are not calculated as part of the $10,000 billing cycle cap."

PS: just checked the mail. I did not receive any notice myself.

Source: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8455993&sid=1f771a4d1f9511fe12ed6795d5a4ab4a#p8455993

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ptatohed — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 22:29:06 GMT

Hmmmm. Sux but I think I can live with this. Thanks for the info.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

swankytiger — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 22:30:27 GMT

also being reported on DoC.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

salt_water_swimming — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 23:39:41 GMT

I find your terms acceptable, for now

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

G2244 — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 23:45:57 GMT

@salt_water_swimming wrote:
I find your terms acceptable, for now

Agreed. It could be much worse. If gets worse later, will re-evaluate then.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ptatohed — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 23:46:22 GMT

What falls under "third-party bill payment services"?

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

swankytiger — Fri, 25 Jul 2025 23:55:15 GMT

prob something like Plastiq

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

TrapLine — Sat, 26 Jul 2025 00:13:26 GMT

The paper letter arrived in the mail today Friday, July 25, 2025. Held my breath and like the rest of you, it looks liveable.

US Bank needs to be consistent and not forever be changing product terms. Give'em a year or two. The game, keep us confused and we won't know the difference. Of banks, US Bank has had some good card offerings ... leave them alone!

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

creditrizz — Sat, 26 Jul 2025 01:44:37 GMT

The inability to use it on taxes is a pretty major cut, but theres still some value to it. Probably just barely enough value to justify sticking with their crap brokerage platform

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

NoMoreE46 — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 02:01:32 GMT

I got this card for the Taxes and Insurance.

I know someone here uses this for tuition.

Dang, well maybe I can get the AR. Nope.

@creditrizz wrote:
The inability to use it on taxes is a pretty major cut, but theres still some value to it. Probably just barely enough value to justify sticking with their crap brokerage platform

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ElvisCaprice — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 04:18:34 GMT

I never had the spend that made sense for this card. The opportunity cost was too high with no SUB's being offered, not only for the card, but worse, for the investments. Now, in it's soon to be nerfed state, V1, your making $1200 more than a 3% card per year at max cap (120k) 4% spend. And at what opportunity cost? Also you have a FTF, so out with travel, and US Bank is notorious with those category inclusions/exclusions, very narrow, or in the case of exclusion, very wide?

In the end, only each individual can anwer this question of worth to their needs and tolerance.

Obviously, V2, forget about it for everyone and still no SUB? What is US Bank thinking?

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

bs1234 — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 03:51:43 GMT

@ElvisCaprice wrote:
I never had the spend that made sense for this card. The opportunity cost was too high with no SUB's being offered, not only for the card, but worse, for the investments. Now, in it's soon to be nerfed state, V1, your only making $100 more than a 3% card per year at max cap 4% spend. And at what opportunity cost? Also you have a FTF, so out with travel, and US Bank is notorious with those category inclusions/exclusions, very narrow, or in the case of exclusion, very wide?

In the end, only each individual can anwer this question of worth to their needs and tolerance.

Obviously not a fan of the nerf, but the cap is $10K per month, so it's a max of $1200 a year more than a flat 3% card (which most of us don't have anyway, so more like a max $2,400 over a flat 2% ) Also, if they keep allowing IRA ETFs to count, the opportunity cost for that is very nearly $0. The question remains is will you do better with another card with a SUB? And if for some reason you don't find yourself spending $10K each and every month, the answer may well be yes!

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

bs1234 — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 03:57:49 GMT

The tax exclusion is going to be interesting to work out! I just paid my real estate taxes. This is charged in two parts: the first, the "real" charge, came classified as "Utilities" The other charge is the convenience fee (2.9% I think) and this IS classified as Tax. If this stays, then still worth using the card.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ElvisCaprice — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 04:51:59 GMT

@bs1234 wrote:
@ElvisCaprice wrote:
I never had the spend that made sense for this card. The opportunity cost was too high with no SUB's being offered, not only for the card, but worse, for the investments. Now, in it's soon to be nerfed state, V1, your only making $100 more than a 3% card per year at max cap 4% spend. And at what opportunity cost? Also you have a FTF, so out with travel, and US Bank is notorious with those category inclusions/exclusions, very narrow, or in the case of exclusion, very wide?

In the end, only each individual can anwer this question of worth to their needs and tolerance.

Obviously not a fan of the nerf, but the cap is $10K per month, so it's a max of $1200 a year more than a flat 3% card (which most of us don't have anyway, so more like a max $2,400 over a flat 2% ) Also, if they keep allowing IRA ETFs to count, the opportunity cost for that is very nearly $0. The question remains is will you do better with another card with a SUB? And if for some reason you don't find yourself spending $10K each and every month, the answer may well be yes!

Whoops, your right, it's a 120k per year. So $4800 in rewards @4% vs $3600 (Robinhood Gold unlimited) @3%. So your making $1200 more if you can max out the spend. But your losing out on the opportunity cost of churning the investment. Like Merrill Lynch/BofA pay $600 SUB for $100k in new money about every 28 weeks if you play it right. And there are others.

When it was unlimited in spend, as is before the nerf, I could envision someone with a million dollars in annual spend making hay with this card.

My total non category spend not included for 5% or better, is around 1k to 2k per year. Not even close to making it worthwhile.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

CreditOnion — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 04:49:50 GMT

Whiole not great, this maybe isn't unexpected and honestly not as bad as it could be. In fact, it might be good news in a way - why would USBank choose to migrate their v1.0 product to yet another version instead of to the v1.1 product if they don't have plans to simplify support and product offerings and just move everyone over to this new "v2.0" version eventually?

Maybe just wishful thinking, but if they exclude enough categories (tax payments, Plastiq-like services) and add enough limits ($10k/month), maybe it stos the bleeding enough to entice more people to sign up? I wonder if they saw a huge drop in new customer sign ups and decided to meet somewhere in the middle, and this is the result.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ptatohed — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 05:28:39 GMT

@CreditOnion wrote:
Whiole not great, this maybe isn't unexpected and honestly not as bad as it could be. In fact, it might be good news in a way - why would USBank choose to migrate their v1.0 product to yet another version instead of to the v1.1 product if they don't have plans to simplify support and product offerings and just move everyone over to this new "v2.0" version eventually?

Maybe just wishful thinking, but if they exclude enough categories (tax payments, Plastiq-like services) and add enough limits ($10k/month), maybe it stos the bleeding enough to entice more people to sign up? I wonder if they saw a huge drop in new customer sign ups and decided to meet somewhere in the middle, and this is the result.

I actually kind of looked at this 'minor' nerf as a possible good thing too, oddly enough. It's still completely livable and if (if) this is the last nerf, or the last nerf for a long time, that can be very good news. I have to believe USB actually gave it some careful thought this time around and, unless they plan to just keep nerfing a little at a time, hopefully this revision will work for them.

By your last paragraph, are you suggesting this new revised version of V1.0 will also be open to new applicants?

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

creditrizz — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 22:00:12 GMT

@ElvisCaprice wrote:
@bs1234 wrote:
@ElvisCaprice wrote:
I never had the spend that made sense for this card. The opportunity cost was too high with no SUB's being offered, not only for the card, but worse, for the investments. Now, in it's soon to be nerfed state, V1, your only making $100 more than a 3% card per year at max cap 4% spend. And at what opportunity cost? Also you have a FTF, so out with travel, and US Bank is notorious with those category inclusions/exclusions, very narrow, or in the case of exclusion, very wide?

In the end, only each individual can anwer this question of worth to their needs and tolerance.

Obviously not a fan of the nerf, but the cap is $10K per month, so it's a max of $1200 a year more than a flat 3% card (which most of us don't have anyway, so more like a max $2,400 over a flat 2% ) Also, if they keep allowing IRA ETFs to count, the opportunity cost for that is very nearly $0. The question remains is will you do better with another card with a SUB? And if for some reason you don't find yourself spending $10K each and every month, the answer may well be yes!
Whoops, your right, it's a 120k per year. So $4800 in rewards @4% vs $3600 (Robinhood Gold unlimited) @3%. So your making $1200 more if you can max out the spend. But your losing out on the opportunity cost of churning the investment. Like Merrill Lynch/BofA pay $600 SUB for $100k in new money about every 28 weeks if you play it right. And there are others.
When it was unlimited in spend, as is before the nerf, I could envision someone with a million dollars in annual spend making hay with this card.

My total non category spend not included for 5% or better, is around 1k to 2k per year. Not even close to making it worthwhile.

Some users have multiples of 100k, so keeping 100k in US Bank doesn't exclude one from getting SUBs at other brokerages by moving stocks around. Moving assets from brokerages for SUBs can be a hassle anyway, not always worth the effort for the SUB value. i.e. Merrill wouldn't let me transfer some crypto ETFs, and even rejected my transfers of SGOV which is very common and basic. Their reps could never figure out why and I found them to be too annoying to deal with and just gave up.

Robinhood gold card isn't really a good comparison - they exclude a ton of things from the 3% - even larger costco transactions. And you have to pay for robinhood gold annualy to be able to use the card, which doesn't have utility for a lot of people. So you're really getting a 2% cashback difference with Smartly, for an extra max of $2400 a year that doesn't require anything that consumes time. The 5% rotator crowd will do anything for a few extra dollars a week but not all of us are into that.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ElvisCaprice — Sun, 27 Jul 2025 22:34:44 GMT

@ElvisCaprice wrote:

In the end, only each individual can anwer this question of worth to their needs and tolerance.

I agree, it's a YMMV.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

Tiggr — Mon, 28 Jul 2025 05:57:06 GMT

WIth how active USB has been with managing their cards, I completely expect USB to have a true 3% longer than Robinhood will. If anything, RH will follow suit with the paramaters like USB has.

Re: Smartly V1 is changing on September 15th

ElvisCaprice — Mon, 28 Jul 2025 12:49:07 GMT

@Tiggr wrote:
WIth how active USB has been with managing their cards, I completely expect USB to have a true 3% longer than Robinhood will. If anything, RH will follow suit with the paramaters like USB has.

USB is implementing a cap on anything over 2% on Smartly, you know that, right? With limits on certain categories.

HOOD has far more positive momentum than USB, HOOD now has a 93 Billion dollar market cap and USB 72 Billion.

I think HOOD has it going now and far more technologically advanced than USB.

And I have no ties, yet, with HOOD. No horse in this race.

That being said, I do think Robinhood Gold Visa will one day see a cap placed upon the 3%.