topic Re: When is a SUB a SUB? in Credit Cards

When is a SUB a SUB?

Aim_High — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 02:25:59 GMT

This should be a great discussion topic and I hope to get heavy community participation. On more than one occasion, the topic of what qualifies as a “SUB” (Sign-up Bonus) has been debated. Is this important? No, not really. But for those of us who have a credit card and personal finance hobby, the distinction is worth consideration. There was one conversation 02/07/2024 from >this thread.< Then, the subject came up again this week in >this thread< which made me decide it was time for a group topic.

I’ve had credit cards over 40 years, since the early 1980’s. Back-in-the-day, there was no such thing as any sort of bonus or offer to get a new credit card. The credit card market was not nearly so competitive or market-saturated and most cards had little if any rewards. Most major-network cards from not only AMEX but also Mastercard and VIsa charged a nominal annual fee, even without a lot of perks or rewards. I will point out, though, that those cards often had more attractive interest rates or lower fees. In the mid-1980’s, credit card spending rewards were introduced, both with airline miles programs and cash rewards. AMEX Member Rewards didn’t come along until 1991 and Chase Ultimate Rewards until 2009. Cash rewards have increased significantly in the past 25 years, starting at 1% or less. Over time, the card market has become much more competitive. As one of many changes, in their struggle to add market share, lenders have introduced descriptive terms of incentives to apply for their cards including “Sign up Bonuses,” “New cardmember Offers,” “Welcome Bonuses,” “Welcome Offers,” and many other variations. These new card incentives began to appear around 2000 to 2010 and have proliferated into almost standard industry practice on most cards among the major lenders. However, they take many forms and often have varying requirements, most commonly to spend $x to receive $x in rewards. Likewise, banking deposit account bonuses were essentially non-existent until about the same period, and I notice My FICO abbreviations doesn't even include deposit accounts as SUBs, even though many of our members talk about banking “SUBs.” Our discussions have even danced around whether the word “Bonus” is appropriate for an incentive that requires some action to receive it or if sticking to “Offers” is necessary.

When My FICO Forums began in 2007, new cardmember offers were still in their infancy compared to today. From >the Common Abbreviations< thread on 10/29/2007, a SUB is defined as:

SUB - Sign Up Bonus. Extra incentive for solely getting a credit card. Different than a spend requirement bonus

In my opinion, this definition could be construed two different ways. Either ANY bonus requiring a spend is not a “SUB.” Or the intent was just to exclude spending retention offers on existing AF cards such as with AMEX from the definition of a SUB, since there is not a new account involved. My interpretation is that the second sentence isn't meant to insinuate that a SUB cannot require spending on a new account, but simply that retention spending offers on pre-existing accounts are not SUBs.

If you adhere strictly and literally to the first interpretation above, the majority of posts on My FICO completely misuse and overuse the term “Sign up Bonus” or the abbreviation “SUB.” Moreover, you’d also find the majority of other card forums and websites misuse or overuse the terms. However, I believe the term “SUB” has evolved in the vernacular to become an abbreviation of ALL new cardmember offers, regardless of the type. This usage on My FICO is inconsistent with the general public usage of the term. It's almost unheard-of for an “offer” on a new credit card or new banking account to give you something without a condition other than signing up. (The current Chase Amazon Offer is probably the only one I’ve seen lately See >HERE<.) So for that matter, use of the word SUB on a new deposit account where you must deposit a minimum sum and leave it for a minimum time would be technically incorrect, as actions are required to fulfill the agreement. Even introductory 0% financing offers have a requirement to transfer funds to save money on financing. Consequently, in my opinion, the term SUB has become more of an umbrella term for ALL introductory offers on cards and deposit accounts, regardless of any additional requirements. I would even go so far as to include 0% introductory financing as a form of a SUB, as the bonus takes the form of less interest paid on carried debt if a balance is transferred. I will give examples in a follow-on message.

In my opinion, “SUB” or “Sign Up Bonus” is just a simple and concise way to refer to some form of new account incentive and makes general discussions on the forums easier.
The opposite viewpoint is that the first interpretation of that My FICO definition above is still correct. From posts from my friend, @ptatohed , “Per myFICO's own acronyms, a SUB (sign up bonus) is not the same as an intro offer. A SUB is something you get when opening a new card regardless of anything needed on your part. e.g. a 0% intro rate on purchases for X months. An intro offer like 'Spend $Xk for XXk points is not a SUB.” >and< “FYI, it's an 'Offer', not a 'Bonus', meaning, you can choose to participate, or not. It's not a 'Bonus'. A 'Bonus' is something you get, regardless of whether or not you are willing to take them up on their 'offer'. By definition.”

Here are my questions:
(1) Is a new cardmember offer a SUB if it requires some action such as meeting a spending requirement?

(2) Is the use of the word “Bonus” appropriate if any action is required to receive it?

(3) Do you agree that the My FICO definition for SUB should be updated to “Extra Incentive to add a new credit card or deposit account,” while dropping the “different from a spend requirement bonus?”

If the community agrees that the answers are YES, I suggest we have moderators update and clarify the definition in “Common Abbreviations.” And if the answers are NO, forum-inappropriate use of the words “SUB” and “Bonus” should be flagged on all future posting to be consistent with forum guidelines.

Discuss.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Aim_High — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 02:26:28 GMT

Use of the terms “SUB,” “Sign Up Bonus,” or “Bonus” can be found throughout the webz. At least two major lenders, Chase and Capital One, spell out their definition of Sign-up Bonus on their educational webpages. Per the other links below, most of the major credit and financial websites reference “Welcome Offers” interchangeably with the words “Bonus” or “SUB” or “Sign up Bonus.”

These include:

US News and World Report
Doctor of Credit
Credit Karma
Credit Cards.com
Wallet Hub
Nerd Wallet
The Points Guy
Bankrate
Card rates
The Motley Fool
CNBC
Upgraded Points
Award Wallet
Cards and Points
One Mile at a Time

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Credit Cards.com:

A sign-up bonus is an enticement offered by card issuers to consumers for applying and using a card. Sign-up bonuses have become generous in recent years, sometimes as much as 100,000 points. Typically, the cardholder must “earn” the bonus by reaching a spending threshold in a limited initial period, for example, by spending $3,000 on a card in the first 90 days after opening the account. Compare sign-up bonus credit card offers.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Chase Bank:
Credit card sign-up bonuses, also known as a new cardmember offer, are a one-time offer to receive extra rewards for meeting the purchase requirements in the given time frame. Chase link 2.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Capital One:

A credit card sign-up bonus offers a one-time reward for new cardholders.
Sign-up bonuses are sometimes called welcome bonuses or early-spend bonuses.
To earn a sign-up bonus, new cardholders typically must use the card to spend a certain amount of money within a specific time frame.
Depending on the terms and conditions of the card, bonuses could take the form of miles, cash back or other credits.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Links:

US News and World Report

Doctor of Credit

Motley Fool

Nerd Wallet

CNBC

Upgraded Points

Award Wallet

Cards and Points

Wells Fargo (uses "bonus")

One Mile at a Time (uses "bonus")

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

ptatohed — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 02:02:27 GMT

Ahh! I can't read everything right now @Aim_High but I LOVE it! Looking forward to participating.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

crystal626 — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 02:05:02 GMT

The way I look at it, if I'm getting something extra for signing up, whether it requires spend or not, it's a SUB.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

ptatohed — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 04:18:39 GMT

Again, good stuff Aim.

I don't deny that the term Sign-Up Bonus (SUB) is largely used. I'm not at all surprised by all the third-party sites you found (Post 2) that use the term SUB. It is the well-established slang term. It's just that they are wrong. What do the credit issuers themselves call it?

Let me break it down in my view (which is obviously the minority view...... View of one, perhaps? lol)

1.) You don't "Sign Up" for a credit card. You apply for it. You Sign Up for karate or dance classes.

2.) A bonus is something you get by virtue of applying and receiving the card. I might use the Discover first year cash back match as an example. Or a hotel card's one free night per year. An offer is something you need to accept and choose to take them up on. The obvious example: Spend $X,XXX in the first 90 days, get $YYY.

I like to use the term Welcome Offer. WO? lol I'd be curious to see what the majority of issuers call it.

But, hey, I know am in the very low minority on this one! So, yeah, let me put on my flame suite and you guys can flame away!

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

ElvisCaprice — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:15:09 GMT

Oh boy, the semantics are of little use to this cat. What matters is that your putting green in your pocket without it costing you anything more than normal spend, at worst. Creative accounting can make it so you don't spend any of your hard earned cash, my favorite.

What becomes more interesting is you have to pick and choose what SUB's/Offers/Rewards to take on. What is the opportunity cost involved compared to others? How does it fit into your long term goals.

This year I came very close to equaling my CC/debit spend with SUB's/Offers/Rewards, thus almost having a net zero CC expense for the year. Sticking it to the man! LOL. Don't mind me, please continue with the topic at hand.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

redpat — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:10:31 GMT

@Aim_High

Tomato, Tomahto.......Slow morning @Aim_High ????

Have a great Thanksgiving!

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Vinjints — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:48:50 GMT

Kleenex. Bandaid. Is a hotdog a sandwich? Then you can talk about subs, hoagies and wedges.

I think of a SUB as the incentive for you to get on board with whatever they're selling. The offers come once you're already established as a customer.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

JoeRockhead — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 14:30:16 GMT

Look, I love a good hobby debate as much as the next nerd with too many spreadsheets, but why treat “SUB” like it’s the Dead Sea Scrolls. We’re two posts away from someone carbon-dating the original MyFICO glossary.

Let’s simplify:

If you get something for opening a new account, people are gonna call it a SUB.
Doesn’t matter if you swipe $500, do a backflip, or sacrifice a pack of ramen to the Chase gods. If the reward shows up after “Congratulations, you’re approved,” the masses will chant “SUB.” That ship sailed years ago.
Arguing that it’s “not a bonus if you have to do something” is how you get booed off the stage at Credit Card Comic-Con.
By that logic, airline miles aren’t rewards because I had to actually get on the plane. Come on.
Nobody is flagging posts because Bob used “SUB” instead of “intro offer.”
Moderators have real problems... I think, maybe, IDK

And yes, I read the part about the 1980s and the rise of the rewards economy. Very informative. Very historical. Ken Burns would be proud. But can we not turn this into an existential crisis over a three-letter abbreviation?

My answers:

Is it a SUB if you have to spend? Yes. Congratulations, welcome to 2025.
Is “bonus” still appropriate? Yes. “Spend $500, get $200” is not a hostage situation. It’s a bonus.
Should we update the definition? Sure, why not. But if we don’t, society will not crumble, and humanity will soldier on.

Bottom line: Use “SUB” however the community uses “SUB,” because language evolves and nobody wants a glossary stricter than Amex’s RAT department.

All in good fun @Aim_High since you limited my ability to razz you when you did this in >this thread<

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

1lifeisworthit — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 14:31:22 GMT

What fun!

No snark intended. I can burrow into linguistic minutiae. I am someone who can follow the "[blank-times]-removed" language in cousinships (2nd cousin 3 times removed has no terrors) and I know I will enjoy this post.

Following with glee and popping popcorn.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

AndySoCal — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:16:14 GMT

The SUB to me is a special interest rate on the credit card defined period of time or getting cash back for spending so much money in a defined period of time.

You also have offers like Langley FCU has for becoming a member you recieved a higher rate. The offer is the current rate is 3.8% new member rate is 5.00% for 90 days. You see a slight variation of that is higher rate for new money only. The key to the offer is the money that comes into account must come from another financial institution not transferred in from an existing account you with the bank or credit union.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

odd_dog — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:33:01 GMT

Now the genie is out of the bottle (lol)...if a sub is not always a sub then cash back is not always cash back either....how many times have I seen rewards as gift cards called "cash back", or statement credit as "cash back" when neither really are....sure I have heard the argument there are ways around that like take the "statement credit" and then pay yourself with the cash you would use to pay the bill BUT that means you have to spend to get your money, where as true cash back means I do not have to spend to "cash out" and I can put that money right in the bank, so I guess we are in semantics with these definitions.......but then again who else can we have these riveting conversations with???

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

unsungivy — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:52:51 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:
This should be a great discussion topic and I hope to get heavy community participation. On more than one occasion, the topic of what qualifies as a “SUB” (Sign-up Bonus) has been debated. Is this important? No, not really.   But for those of us who have a credit card and personal finance hobby, the distinction is worth consideration. There was one conversation 02/07/2024 from >this thread.<   Then, the subject came up again this week in >this thread< which made me decide it was time for a group topic.

I’ve had credit cards over 40 years, since the early 1980’s. Back-in-the-day, there was no such thing as any sort of bonus or offer to get a new credit card. The credit card market was not nearly so competitive or market-saturated and most cards had little if any rewards. Most major-network cards from not only AMEX but also Mastercard and VIsa charged a nominal annual fee, even without a lot of perks or rewards. I will point out, though, that those cards often had more attractive interest rates or lower fees. In the mid-1980’s, credit card spending rewards were introduced, both with airline miles programs and cash rewards. AMEX Member Rewards didn’t come along until 1991 and Chase Ultimate Rewards until 2009. Cash rewards have increased significantly in the past 25 years, starting at 1% or less. Over time, the card market has become much more competitive. As one of many changes, in their struggle to add market share, lenders have introduced descriptive terms of incentives to apply for their cards including “Sign up Bonuses,” “New cardmember Offers,” “Welcome Bonuses,” “Welcome Offers,” and many other variations.   These new card incentives began to appear around 2000 to 2010 and have proliferated into almost standard industry practice on most cards among the major lenders. However, they take many forms and often have varying requirements, most commonly to spend $x to receive $x in rewards. Likewise, banking deposit account bonuses were essentially non-existent until about the same period, and I notice My FICO abbreviations doesn't even include deposit accounts as SUBs, even though many of our members talk about banking “SUBs.” Our discussions have even danced around whether the word “Bonus” is appropriate for an incentive that requires some action to receive it or if sticking to “Offers” is necessary.

When My FICO Forums began in 2007, new cardmember offers were still in their infancy compared to today. From >the Common Abbreviations< thread on 10/29/2007, a SUB is defined as:

SUB - Sign Up Bonus. Extra incentive for solely getting a credit card. Different than a spend requirement bonus

In my opinion, this definition could be construed two different ways. Either ANY bonus requiring a spend is not a “SUB.” Or the intent was just to exclude spending retention offers on existing AF cards such as with AMEX from the definition of a SUB, since there is not a new account involved. My interpretation is that the second sentence isn't meant to insinuate that a SUB cannot require spending on a new account, but simply that retention spending offers on pre-existing accounts are not SUBs.

If you adhere strictly and literally to the first interpretation above, the majority of posts on My FICO completely misuse and overuse the term “Sign up Bonus” or the abbreviation “SUB.” Moreover, you’d also find the majority of other card forums and websites misuse or overuse the terms. However, I believe the term “SUB” has evolved in the vernacular to become an abbreviation of ALL new cardmember offers, regardless of the type. This usage on My FICO is inconsistent with the general public usage of the term.  It's almost unheard-of for an “offer” on a new credit card or new banking account to give you something without a condition other than signing up. (The current Chase Amazon Offer is probably the only one I’ve seen lately See >HERE<.) So for that matter, use of the word SUB on a new deposit account where you must deposit a minimum sum and leave it for a minimum time would be technically incorrect, as actions are required to fulfill the agreement. Even introductory 0% financing offers have a requirement to transfer funds to save money on financing. Consequently, in my opinion, the term SUB has become more of an umbrella term for ALL introductory offers on cards and deposit accounts, regardless of any additional requirements. I would even go so far as to include 0% introductory financing as a form of a SUB, as the bonus takes the form of less interest paid on carried debt if a balance is transferred. I will give examples in a follow-on message.

In my opinion, “SUB” or “Sign Up Bonus” is just a simple and concise way to refer to some form of new account incentive and makes general discussions on the forums easier.
The opposite viewpoint is that the first interpretation of that My FICO definition above is still correct. From posts from my friend, @ptatohed , “Per myFICO's own acronyms, a SUB (sign up bonus) is not the same as an intro offer. A SUB is something you get when opening a new card regardless of anything needed on your part. e.g. a 0% intro rate on purchases for X months. An intro offer like 'Spend $Xk for XXk points is not a SUB.” >and< “FYI, it's an 'Offer', not a 'Bonus', meaning, you can choose to participate, or not. It's not a 'Bonus'. A 'Bonus' is something you get, regardless of whether or not you are willing to take them up on their 'offer'. By definition.”
Here are my questions:
(1) Is a new cardmember offer a SUB if it requires some action such as meeting a spending requirement?
(2) Is the use of the word “Bonus” appropriate if any action is required to receive it?
(3) Do you agree that the My FICO definition for SUB should be updated to “Extra Incentive to add a new credit card or deposit account,” while dropping the “different from a spend requirement bonus?”

If the community agrees that the answers are YES, I suggest we have moderators update and clarify the definition in “Common Abbreviations.” And if the answers are NO, forum-inappropriate use of the words “SUB” and “Bonus” should be flagged on all future posting to be consistent with forum guidelines.

Discuss.

Short and sweet: YES.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Patient957 — Wed, 26 Nov 2025 16:14:04 GMT

@Aim_High wrote:

(1) Is a new cardmember offer a SUB if it requires some action such as meeting a spending requirement?

Yes. That's how the term has been used. People trying to redefine the term SUB are just playing games with semantics.

99.9% of the SUBs we discuss here require some action, usually spend. So now all the sudden we need a new term?

(2) Is the use of the word “Bonus” appropriate if any action is required to receive it?

Yes. "Offer" and "bonus" are two totally different things. Offer is what the lenders put forth for the customers' consideration. Bonus is the money or points the customer receives aftera ccepting and meeting the terms of the offer.

bonus

/bō′nəs/

noun

Something given or paid in addition to what is usual or expected.

There's nothing in the definition of "bonus" that precludes having to meet certain terms to receive it. Indeed, bonuses are commonly offered in the workplace and almost always come with conditions, like attendance or sales performance.

Let's not try to redefine the word "bonus."

(3) Do you agree that the My FICO definition for SUB should be updated to “Extra Incentive to add a new credit card or deposit account,” while dropping the “different from a spend requirement bonus?”

The term SUB is used in the broader CC community, well beyond here at MF. The MF definition should conform to the broadly accepted usage of SUB, which includes both CC bonuses with spending requirements and bank account bonuses with DD and other requirements.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

mgood — Thu, 27 Nov 2025 00:01:36 GMT

If they're giving me money [EDIT: or points that can be used somewhat like money], I call it a SUB, even if I have to do something to get it.

If I have to spend $2000 within the first 3 months to get back $200, I call that a Sign-Up Bonus. Even the Discover double rewards for the first year deal, I consider a SUB.

If someone thinks the definition should be updated, sure, ok. If someone thinks I'm terribly ignorant for using the wrong terminology, ok. I'm not going to get worked up over it one way or the other.

If it's an upgrade offer, like PC a BCE to BCP and get the first year free plus $150 back for spending $1k in the first 6 months, I do not call that a SUB. I'm not signing up, just changing lanes.

I read the first post and skimmed the second one. I read a couple of other people's posts. I'll try to go back and read the whole thread later.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Aim_High — Sun, 30 Nov 2025 19:42:35 GMT

@redpat wrote:
@Aim_High
Tomato, Tomahto.......Slow morning @Aim_High ????

Have a great Thanksgiving!

Sort of, @redpat, except in this case it's Potato, Potahto for our friend @ptatohed.

I had a blessed Thanksgiving and I'm hoping everyone else did as well!

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Aim_High — Sun, 30 Nov 2025 19:51:29 GMT

@JoeRockhead wrote:
Look, I love a good hobby debate as much as the next nerd with too many spreadsheets, but why treat “SUB” like it’s the Dead Sea Scrolls. We’re two posts away from someone carbon-dating the original MyFICO glossary.

Let’s simplify:
If you get something for opening a new account, people are gonna call it a SUB.
Doesn’t matter if you swipe $500, do a backflip, or sacrifice a pack of ramen to the Chase gods. If the reward shows up after “Congratulations, you’re approved,” the masses will chant “SUB.” That ship sailed years ago.
Arguing that it’s “not a bonus if you have to do something” is how you get booed off the stage at Credit Card Comic-Con.
By that logic, airline miles aren’t rewards because I had to actually get on the plane. Come on.
Nobody is flagging posts because Bob used “SUB” instead of “intro offer.”
Moderators have real problems... I think, maybe, IDK
And yes, I read the part about the 1980s and the rise of the rewards economy. Very informative. Very historical. Ken Burns would be proud. But can we not turn this into an existential crisis over a three-letter abbreviation?

My answers:
Is it a SUB if you have to spend? Yes. Congratulations, welcome to 2025.
Is “bonus” still appropriate? Yes. “Spend $500, get $200” is not a hostage situation. It’s a bonus.
Should we update the definition? Sure, why not. But if we don’t, society will not crumble, and humanity will soldier on.
Bottom line: Use “SUB” however the community uses “SUB,” because language evolves and nobody wants a glossary stricter than Amex’s RAT department.

All in good fun @Aim_High since you limited my ability to razz you when you did this in >this thread<

A+ @JoeRockhead.

Love the way you broke this discussion down, and I think you're spot-on.

"Congratulations, welcome to 2025."

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Zoostation1 — Mon, 01 Dec 2025 05:00:44 GMT

@Aim_High Definitely was entertained reading the thread, and am also on board with the response from @JoeRockhead.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Realist — Mon, 01 Dec 2025 05:19:05 GMT

Excellent topic.

SUB has taken on the blanket term of acquiring something of value, in exchange for something of value. How they deliver this value is up to the lender. Whether it's a cash back rebate type of return, in which requires no taxable reporting onto the individual, or an actual cash bonus (which does require reporting), matters not. The activity of acquiring something of benefit, in exchange for supplying something of value to acheive their value, is often referred to as the SUB. Right, wrong, or indifferent. This activity has morphed or blended into a blanket term of what we see today.

So, what do these companies receive to provide these SUBs to individuals? They receive your information and sell it to data brokers. There is no free lunch, only you can't sell your information, and they can. Information is everything. This provides to those behind the scene, your patterns of purchase, what you purchase, how often you purchase. It will create a profile of who you are, how likely you will purchase healthy items, how often you will purchase unhealthy items. It's information that can help formulate a healthy or unhealthy profile, and so much more. Finances reveal so much about a lifestyle. It can identify political leanings, how many firearms you purchase, in which may display a certain leaning. It can display if you are active, or sedimentary. Etc, Etc.

There is no free lunch. So long as you understand this, I find it's a fair medium of exchange.

Re: When is a SUB a SUB?

Stuart89 — Tue, 02 Dec 2025 00:27:33 GMT

If we’re being literal, almost all offers are “initial bonuses” rather than sign-up bonuses. The Amazon cards are just about the only major SUBs still available. Other issuers don’t even like the terminology.