topic Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article in Credit Cards

MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

shniku — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:52:06 GMT

Hello everybody. This is my plan for getting the AmEx Centurion card.

Step 1: Get AmEx Gold.

Step 2: Spend 500k with it in a year.

Step 3: Wait for the invitation.

It sounds simple, but I'm only 22, my net wealth is in the negatives, and I'm a full time college student. I believe AmEx sends you an invitation once you pass 300k, so just to be safe, I set my goal to 500k. You might ask, "How in the world can you spend 500k if you're broke?" That's a good question, but I think I have the answer. All you have to do, is buy and sell items. Of course, throughout the whole process, you at least have to break even for the plan to work.

What you buy and sell is up to you, but I myself am doing this with high-end computers. I buy them directly from the manufacturers, and I sell them on eBay. I usually get quantity discounts of up to 30%. I don't really care about making money, so my mark-up is only 5%, and that is just to cover the storage and shipping costs. When I drop-ship, I charge the costomer the same ammount that I pay. In reality, my customers are saving up to 30% on each computer I sell, and I am spending thousands on my AmEx.

I was really surprised when I called up AmEx and they told me I had spent 130k in like a 6 month period. I had no idea I was doing such large volume, but 10k here, and 10k there quickly adds up. Hopefully, I will be close to 500k at the end of the year, but just in case I'm not, I plan to buy the rest in gold bullion, and then re-sell the gold to Northwestern Territorial Mint. If I sell right away, I lose like 3% of what I spend on the gold, but if I buy on a dip, I just have to wait for gold to go up 3% then I don't lose anything.

All of this for credit card might be too much work, but what have I got to lose? Even if I get the invitation, I am not sure I can pay the 5k innitiation fee, and 3k anual fee. Hopefully they will negotiate with me and waive the fees, since they are already making money off of me.

Anyways, that's my plan. Post if you have different ideas.

Message Edited by shniku on 12-05-2009 04:49 AM

Message Edited by shniku on 12-05-2009 04:51 AM

Message Edited by shniku on 12-05-2009 04:52 AM

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

DI — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 13:29:11 GMT

What can the Centurion card do for you?

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

haulingthescoreup — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:01:22 GMT

+1

$5K plus another $3K seems like a lot for what frankly seems to be a show-off card. (sorry) And the bit about buying gold and then selling it at a loss; I don't get that at all. Bad enough that you're willing to pay outrageous fees for a credit card, but accepting losing money on gold transactions??

But it does sound like your plan is working, if having a Centurion card is your goal. I guess.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Red1Blue — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:08:53 GMT

Great idea. Once you get your centurion card, get me an AU card for me. Congrats on your enterprenureship. Banks love the people like you. Michael Dell started Dell from him dorm room. Who know one day we might see computers with you name on them.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Watchmann — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:04:35 GMT

I'm sure you are fully complying with all the Federal and State Tax codes in this endeavor, no? And have all the requisite business licenses to run your business? After those details are complete go ahead and get the Centurion Card, for whatever reasons you think you need it. If it will make you feel better than do it. But as you get some wisdom you'll find that having something like a Centurion Card won't mean much in how it affects your life.

It would seem to me the best business plan would be one that actually makes money and not one that is focusing on getting a product that will end up costing you money. If would seem that you are making squat in your venture with the 5% markup being eaten up in shipping and carrying costs.. And now you want to drop $8k on fees for one year of the Card, even losing money buying bullion and selling at a loss just to make AMEX volume. Does that make sense? To me it doesn't, but your priorities seem to be in a different direction.

You say you aren't interested in making money. WHY NOT? That's what business is about. It seems your whole reason for running this hobby business is odd and it eventually will fail on its own merits.

It would seem you are overly into image, as you have posted this message over on the Auto Forum:

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=autoloans&thread.id=8933 A 22yo doesn't need two new BMW's. Slow down and stop with the outward appearance of your life and work on actually making some money for the future.

Message Edited by Watchmann on 12-05-2009 10:04 AM

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:34:22 GMT

"How in the world can you spend 500k if you're broke?"

There are a lot easier ways to max your spending out than buying and selling crap on ebay and with a lot less risk.

Buy dollar coins from the US mint through their direct ship program and deposit them in your account. The shipping is free, they count as a purchase so you earn cash back.

Google it and you will find mega threads on fatwallet and flyertalk that outline the deal.

I hope you have been using an Amex card that offers cash back like the blue cash card.

[Edited].

A friendly reminder to keep all responses friendly & respectful. ~LilMirth

Message Edited by LilMirth on 12-05-2009 01:34 PM

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

shniku — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:27:17 GMT

I think that the challenge itself is pretty exciting. I just want to see if I can do it.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

DI — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:49:23 GMT

@shniku wrote:
I think that the challenge itself is pretty exciting. I just want to see if I can do it.

If it's about a challenge go for it. I'm all about challenges. But I would still be concern about paying those AF's. You seem cleaver enough to get them to waive the AF's. That would be your second challenge. Good luck!!

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:00:51 GMT

@shniku wrote:

Hello everybody. This is my plan for getting the AmEx Centurion card.

Step 1: Get AmEx Gold.
Step 2: Spend 500k with it in a year.
Step 3: Wait for the invitation.

It sounds simple, but I'm only 22, my net wealth is in the negatives, and I'm a full time college student. I believe AmEx sends you an invitation once you pass 300k, so just to be safe, I set my goal to 500k. You might ask, "How in the world can you spend 500k if you're broke?" That's a good question, but I think I have the answer. All you have to do, is buy and sell items. Of course, throughout the whole process, you at least have to break even for the plan to work.

What you buy and sell is up to you, but I myself am doing this with high-end computers. I buy them directly from the manufacturers, and I sell them on eBay. I usually get quantity discounts of up to 30%. I don't really care about making money, so my mark-up is only 5%, and that is just to cover the storage and shipping costs. When I drop-ship, I charge the costomer the same ammount that I pay. In reality, my customers are saving up to 30% on each computer I sell, and I am spending thousands on my AmEx.

I was really surprised when I called up AmEx and they told me I had spent 130k in like a 6 month period. I had no idea I was doing such large volume, but 10k here, and 10k there quickly adds up. Hopefully, I will be close to 500k at the end of the year, but just in case I'm not, I plan to buy the rest in gold bullion, and then re-sell the gold to Northwestern Territorial Mint. If I sell right away, I lose like 3% of what I spend on the gold, but if I buy on a dip, I just have to wait for gold to go up 3% then I don't lose anything.

All of this for credit card might be too much work, but what have I got to lose? Even if I get the invitation, I am not sure I can pay the 5k innitiation fee, and 3k anual fee. Hopefully they will negotiate with me and waive the fees, since they are already making money off of me.

Anyways, that's my plan. Post if you have different ideas.

I have one concern, primarily, with your plan: "I don't really care about making money..."

Therefore, may I suggest a few alterations:

1. Plan to make a profit, make this the goal and objective

2. Use your credit, in whatever forms, to the objective of profit

3. Have contingency plans in case, as is often the case, things don't go exactly as planned

Considerations:

1. Spending alone does not qualify you, there is the financial position. AMEX will request to know your income and assets. Will you lie?

2. AMEX very likely will request a "Financial Review" before allowing you to spend consistently those high values. This includes tax returns and veriffying cash balances with banks and depository institutions.

3. If your cash balances and FR don't make the cut, they can cut you off at any time, and I have seen this first hand, which can break your float mid-cycle.

Therefore:

1. You need to consider that you have to have profit to pay for the annual fee, initiation fee and expenses of operations.

2. You need to build some type of profit reserves to cover potential losses, such as you explained.

3. Your gold plan is very speculative, and not adivsable. You would do better by looking into the purchase of scrap gold investments which buy substantially below market spot....therefore not buying at a loss.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you do, but you need to have contingency for Amex FR and possible freezes on account during those processes. They are very common.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

DI — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:02:38 GMT

It would seem you are overly into image, as you have posted this message over on the Auto Forum:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=autoloans&thread.id=8933 A 22yo doesn't need two new BMW's. Slow down and stop with the outward appearance of your life and work on actually making some money for the future.
Message Edited by Watchmann on 12-05-2009 10:04 AM

You're 22. Enjoy your two BMW's. And I hope you get the Centurion card too. Get a pair Ralph Lauren shades too(I got mine). You will need them because your future is very bright! Goodluck.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

daisyduke — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:24:10 GMT

I think it's great to have goals and think big. Congrats on your aspirations - like my mother used to say, See it, believe it, achieve it....thinking big typically produces big results...however...

My boss has the Centurion Card....it is by invitation only....but he makes millions a year. I have to tell you, if I had all the money in the world, I would definately think twice about this card. It is truly a waste of money. It's like this: Take your 5K for initial enrollment (I thought it was around $10K, but I am not 100% sure)..., then throw it out of the window. Watch your money float away in the wind. It is definately a "status card" for sure. I get status and everything...But understand you really get nothing in return for the fee for that card. And no, they don't waive their fees - we pay. He spends around $1 million dollars a year on this card and he still pays a fee. He is very intelligent and we have tried to negotiate this, no luck. That is someone spending that much money....

They advertise you get this you get that as part of Centurion card, but I can tell you from experience, about the only benefit we get is using their Travel Service and all of the other advertised specials, etc like chartering a private plane, it's all a hoax/gimmick. I can charter a plane for much less than I could if I used AMEX Centurion card to do it. Oh, they can get you into a resturant that is booked for that night, if you like fine dining....they are good at getting a reservation for dinner...I forget that...

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

bostonte — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:39:33 GMT

Amex is not going to waive the fee. If they don't waive it for people who are at Centurion level without volume generation schemes, why would they waive it for you?

The "perks" of the Centurion card are geared around someone that has enough money not to care, and even then they are hard to justify.

As mentioned a few posts above you can arrange lots of things rather easily through Amex and the attached concierge service (shopping, plane charters, fine dining, etc.) -- but hardly ever at a great price. The "perk" is that it's quick and easy, not that it's a better deal.

The problem? People with the schedule and income to benefit from this perk already have an assistant to do this type of thing for them, or a department at their employer that does all the booking/scheduling.

The rest of us would rather spend 5 minutes doing it ourself and save $300.

People often mention their travel perks and airline club access. First, the large majority of the perks can be had at the Platinum level -- at a much cheaper price. If you fly all the time, perhaps lounge access, companion fares, etc. are worth the annual fee.

The problem? People that fly often enough to want that level of lounge access more than likely would already get it as a member of one of the higher tiers of the airline's frequent flyer program.

The rest of us probably clicked around and bought a discount fare for our vacation to Europe. Only full fare tickets are eligible for free companion fares. Not really that great of a deal when you can buy two discount fares for less than one full fare.

So what are you paying for?

If not just for the "status", the only other real perk is in granting you the card Amex has done a full review of your life. So if you are really the type of person that might stop at Christies on a whim after lunch and drop $150,000 -- the annual fee might be worth it in exchange for the confidence that your $150,000 charge goes through just fine in addition to your normal extravagant spending because Amex knows you can afford it.

The flip side being they'll know how you generated the charge volume and what you can really afford. So while you may get yourself a Centurion card -- it will have the same exposure limit you'd get with a green card, and is that really impressive?

One thing to keep in mind: Bernie Madoff had a Platinum Card, not a Centurion. And if someone with obscene levels of extravagant spending (using other people's money) couldn't justify it...

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

shniku — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:53:12 GMT

I would like to thank all of you for the great advice. I am learning new things everyday because of people like you that share your knowledge with others.

In the recent years, I think AmEx implemented certain changes in order to minimize the risk of account defaults. For example, my uncles account was closed because he used his card at Wal-Mart one day. They said that people who use AmEx cards in that establishment have a higher rate of defaulting on their accounts. AmEx basically tracks everything you buy, analyzes the information, and compares it to statistical data. Nowadays, many institutions are using such methods, especially the auto insurance industry. In a way, I think it is not just. Everyone should be judged independently instead of putting them in groups. I guess they don't have the means to know everything about the people, so they generalize. An example: women in general, pay less than men for auto insurance.

AmEx is known for CLD's, income verification requests, and account closings. It's really annoying having to follow hundreds of rules just so that you can be on their good side, especially when they don't tell you the rules. AmEx got it's problems, but if they had not taken all those precautions, chances are they would have been weakened more severely by the recession.

Money is great to have, but at this point in my life, I am to busy with school. My parents fund my living expenses and my college tuition so I really don't need money. Whatever money I make now, would be insignificant when compared to the value of the knowledge I would gain if I devoted the time to learning instead.

One thing I would like to do though, is set up a corporation so that I can start building corporate credit. I feel this is important to do early since I may need lots of funding later on. I'm too poor to hire lawyers and accountants so I would have to do all the learning from web sites. I don't really know what it would cost me to do all of this. I also plan not to make money in the beginning, but it may be that, in order to get a lot of corporate credit, I have to make some money with the business.

Anyways, I will review the posts on this site for help. If any of you know any other helpful sites, let me know.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

DI — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 21:05:40 GMT

@shniku wrote:
I would like to thank all of you for the great advice. I am learning new things everyday because of people like you that share your knowledge with others.

In the recent years, I think AmEx implemented certain changes in order to minimize the risk of account defaults. For example, my uncles account was closed because he used his card at Wal-Mart one day. They said that people who use AmEx cards in that establishment have a higher rate of defaulting on their accounts. AmEx basically tracks everything you buy, analyzes the information, and compares it to statistical data. Nowadays, many institutions are using such methods, especially the auto insurance industry. In a way, I think it is not just. Everyone should be judged independently instead of putting them in groups. I guess they don't have the means to know everything about the people, so they generalize. An example: women in general, pay less than men for auto insurance.

AmEx is known for CLD's, income verification requests, and account closings. It's really annoying having to follow hundreds of rules just so that you can be on their good side, especially when they don't tell you the rules. AmEx got it's problems, but if they had not taken all those precautions, chances are they would have been weakened more severely by the recession.

Money is great to have, but at this point in my life, I am to busy with school. My parents fund my living expenses and my college tuition so I really don't need money. Whatever money I make now, would be insignificant when compared to the value of the knowledge I would gain if I devoted the time to learning instead.

One thing I would like to do though, is set up a corporation so that I can start building corporate credit. I feel this is important to do early since I may need lots of funding later on. I'm too poor to hire lawyers and accountants so I would have to do all the learning from web sites. I don't really know what it would cost me to do all of this. I also plan not to make money in the beginning, but it may be that, in order to get a lot of corporate credit, I have to make some money with the business.

Anyways, I will review the posts on this site for help. If any of you know any other helpful sites, let me know.

I'm glad you mentioned the Wal-Mart situation. I always suspected AMEX would do something like that. I posted something about that about 3 months ago.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&thread.id=176865&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

MattH — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:22:06 GMT

@Watchmann wrote:
...[Lots of excellent advice]

It would seem you are overly into image, as you have posted this message over on the Auto Forum:
http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=autoloans&thread.id=8933 A 22yo doesn't need two new BMW's. Slow down and stop with the outward appearance of your life and work on actually making some money for the future.
Message Edited by Watchmann on 12-05-2009 10:04 AM

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/weston-stop-acting-rich-start-getting-rich.aspx

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

MattH — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:30:06 GMT

@DI wrote:
...

In the recent years, I think AmEx implemented certain changes in order to minimize the risk of account defaults. For example, my uncles account was closed because he used his card at Wal-Mart one day. They said that people who use AmEx cards in that establishment have a higher rate of defaulting on their accounts. AmEx basically tracks everything you buy, analyzes the information, and compares it to statistical data. Nowadays, many institutions are using such methods, especially the auto insurance industry. In a way, I think it is not just. Everyone should be judged independently instead of putting them in groups. I guess they don't have the means to know everything about the people, so they generalize. An example: women in general, pay less than men for auto insurance.
...
I'm glad you mentioned the Wal-Mart situation. I always suspected AMEX would do something like that. I posted something about that about 3 months ago.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&thread.id=176865&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

I rarely go to Walmart (mostly when visiting relatives in rural areas where for certain things they are unfortunately the only option because they killed off so many local stores and the alternative would be driving to the nearest medium-size city); I've never had adverse action as a result of shopping there but I have been called by the Security departments of several credit card companies to verify that Walmart purchases actually were mine. So in my case it would seem their computers don't consider me high risk from an occasional Walmart purchase but they do consider going to Walmart to be outside my usual pattern.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Anonymous — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 15:45:18 GMT

MattH wrote:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomebuyingGuide/weston-stop-acting-rich-start-getting-rich.aspx

MattH, that's a very interesting and appropriate article...can you post that link over in "Credit In The News" for us, too? I think most forum members would find it interesting.

I disagree with the article's conclusion that teachers and engineers are "frugal", though. While that may be true, it may also be true that they have less of a need to impress others with displays of wealth in the course of their careers than a real estate salesperson, for instance, or a stockbroker.

If a stockbroker wears a suit that's 20 years old, he's not a stockbroker for long because he doesn't look successful, but if an engineer wears a 20 year old suit...nobody notices! lol

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 03:40:05 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot easier ways to max your spending out than buying and selling crap on ebay and with a lot less risk.
Buy dollar coins from the US mint through their direct ship program and deposit them in your account. The shipping is free, they count as a purchase so you earn cash back.
Google it and you will find mega threads on fatwallet and flyertalk that outline the deal.
I hope you have been using an Amex card that offers cash back like the blue cash card.

Actually, it usually does not count as a purchase, but as a cash advance. Both Chase and AmEx list the purchase as a cash-like transaction and not only do not award any points, but start charging interest as of the transaction date.

USAA does not list the purchase as a cash-like transaction, but they do not award any points because the transaction is flagged as "government services."

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Watchmann — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:36:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot easier ways to max your spending out than buying and selling crap on ebay and with a lot less risk.
Buy dollar coins from the US mint through their direct ship program and deposit them in your account. The shipping is free, they count as a purchase so you earn cash back.
Google it and you will find mega threads on fatwallet and flyertalk that outline the deal.
I hope you have been using an Amex card that offers cash back like the blue cash card.
Actually, it usually does not count as a purchase, but as a cash advance. Both Chase and AmEx list the purchase as a cash-like transaction and not only do not award any points, but start charging interest as of the transaction date.

USAA does not list the purchase as a cash-like transaction, but they do not award any points because the transaction is flagged as "government services."

There is an article in the WSJ on Dec 7, 2009 describing how this scheme works. It's not illegal, but has the whiff of dishonesty about it. Leave it to our friends in Governmnet to enable a plan to give other peoples money away.

Re: MY GOAL: Get The AmEx Centurion Card - MY PLAN: read in article

Anonymous — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 06:57:31 GMT

@Watchmann wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot easier ways to max your spending out than buying and selling crap on ebay and with a lot less risk.
Buy dollar coins from the US mint through their direct ship program and deposit them in your account. The shipping is free, they count as a purchase so you earn cash back.
Google it and you will find mega threads on fatwallet and flyertalk that outline the deal.
I hope you have been using an Amex card that offers cash back like the blue cash card.
Actually, it usually does not count as a purchase, but as a cash advance. Both Chase and AmEx list the purchase as a cash-like transaction and not only do not award any points, but start charging interest as of the transaction date.

USAA does not list the purchase as a cash-like transaction, but they do not award any points because the transaction is flagged as "government services."
There is an article in the WSJ on Dec 7, 2009 describing how this scheme works. It's not illegal, but has the whiff of dishonesty about it. Leave it to our friends in Governmnet to enable a plan to give other peoples money away.

Would you happen to have a link?