topic Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now? in Credit Cards

Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Itsmeagain — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:06:19 GMT

I have recently (since Feb. 22), requested CLI's from the following:

Discover

Chase

Kroger 1-2-3

BoA

Best Buy (both store and RZMC)

Alliant

The only one who said it would not be a hard pull was BoA (2,500 CLI). I declined the others to avoid the hard pull.

It appears that the rules have changed boyz and girlz. Get ready for some amazing NEW tricks to be introduced that will further limit the attraction to credit cards, such as lower (or NO), rewards, higher interest rates, fewer CLI's.

Any others with similar experiences? What are your feelings about these new, tightened rules? Are the "Good Times" over . . . . When one could MAKE money using credit?

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:19:03 GMT

I called to get CLI from HSBC on Thursday and was told no CLI at this time. But no mention of requiring hard inquiry.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 11:51:41 GMT

All 5 of my cards rate jacked me late last year but Juniper only up to 12.9. Juniper just auto CLI me from $2500 to $3500 which suites my needs so thus far they are the only card I still have that isn't actually awfully sub-prime but......

In two weeks I will aply and get my first truly prime card, a VISA with a credit union at %8.25 and a 5-7,000 limit. IF Juniper sees that they will freak and probably CLD me....which is the purpose of getting the credit union card in the first place. The credit union don't do freaky un-expected CLD. The point is, all banks have lost their cotton-picking minds and credit unions are the new "small town friendly banks."

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:38:41 GMT

I have been sockdrawering my Alliant CC and will probably close it soon. They will not budge on a cli without a hard pull. CL is only 500 and it sucks!

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

armymom — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 14:53:32 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I have been sockdrawering my Alliant CC and will probably close it soon. They will not budge on a cli without a hard pull. CL is only 500 and it sucks!

If you do any online shopping, you might consider keeping it for that alone. Someone get the account number, they can't charge much.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

RobertEG — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:26:31 GMT

In reality, there is no benefit for a creditor to code a credit pull for a CLI as a "hard pull."

It is clearly a permissable pull under FCRA 604(a)(3)(A), entitlling them to your full credit report.

How a credit inquiry is coded with the CRA is not regulated by the FCRA, and why some do hard vs. soft pulls is a mystery to me. As an existing customer who is most probably doing it to increase business with the creditor, I dont see a hard pull as servicing the needs of either party.

On the subject of CCC policy changes, I have an AT&T/CITI Universal Platimun Master Card that I have held for 15 years. No lates, ever. $14K CL. Current % util, as it has been for a long time, is well below 10%. They recently notified me that they were instituting an annual fee on the card of $35. They say that this fee will be refunded to me after one year if I charge an average of at least $1,000 a month on the card over the next year. That to me is just plain extortion.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:30:34 GMT

doesnt that just suck. Thats reality now though.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Itsmeagain — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 15:39:42 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
In reality, there is no benefit for a creditor to code a credit pull for a CLI as a "hard pull."
It is clearly a permissable pull under FCRA 604(a)(3)(A), entitlling them to your full credit report.
How a credit inquiry is coded with the CRA is not regulated by the FCRA, and why some do hard vs. soft pulls is a mystery to me. As an existing customer who is most probably doing it to increase business with the creditor, I dont see a hard pull as servicing the needs of either party.

On the subject of CCC policy changes, I have an AT&T/CITI Universal Platimun Master Card that I have held for 15 years. No lates, ever. $14K CL. Current % util, as it has been for a long time, is well below 10%. They recently notified me that they were instituting an annual fee on the card of $35. They say that this fee will be refunded to me after one year if I charge an average of at least $1,000 a month on the card over the next year. That to me is just plain extortion.

So, the decision to require a hard pull is just plain punitive. We are being punished for the new credit card law. At least that is the way it appears.
AND, they are beginning to figure ways to extort monies from those of us who do not use their card as much as they would like.

Sometimes credit gardening can be such a PITA!!

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:53:03 GMT

As important as my credit is to me, that 15 year old card'shistory would live to be exactly 25 years old.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 01:54:03 GMT

CREDIT UNIONS

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

fused — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 02:42:43 GMT

As far as inqs go, FIA is the same as BoA.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:23:45 GMT

@RobertEG wrote:
In reality, there is no benefit for a creditor to code a credit pull for a CLI as a "hard pull."
It is clearly a permissable pull under FCRA 604(a)(3)(A), entitlling them to your full credit report.
How a credit inquiry is coded with the CRA is not regulated by the FCRA, and why some do hard vs. soft pulls is a mystery to me. As an existing customer who is most probably doing it to increase business with the creditor, I dont see a hard pull as servicing the needs of either party.

On the subject of CCC policy changes, I have an AT&T/CITI Universal Platimun Master Card that I have held for 15 years. No lates, ever. $14K CL. Current % util, as it has been for a long time, is well below 10%. They recently notified me that they were instituting an annual fee on the card of $35. They say that this fee will be refunded to me after one year if I charge an average of at least $1,000 a month on the card over the next year. That to me is just plain extortion.

I believe there is logic to their madness.

Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit. Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

xchap — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:56:36 GMT

Yes i ask chase for a credit increase of $1000. i have a $4000. flex CC they said it will require a hard pull.

i went ahead and did it.(i might have been drunk) and it was denied .i received a letter sometime the same week saying i was approve and my new CL is $5000.00 ok cool cost me a inquiry.

i called addison to get a credit limit increase and the same thing they wouldn't do it with out a hard pulled......

so yes i believe where in the new game now ........(i cancel the request)

first inquiry for 2010 sucks but ......................

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Itsmeagain — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:18:06 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I believe there is logic to their madness.
Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit. Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't. It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right. We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft? It STILL seems punitive to me.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

MidnightVoice — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:20:56 GMT

@Itsmeagain wrote:

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't. It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right. We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft? It STILL seems punitive to me.

A hard inq tells other lenders you were actually attempting to increase your credit. I differentaites between asking for more and just having a current lender or prospective lender seeing what you look like. It also leaves a record if you were denied.

So I believe there are some reasons why it is done.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

smallfry — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:50:29 GMT

@MidnightVoice wrote:
@Itsmeagain wrote:

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't. It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right. We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft? It STILL seems punitive to me.

A hard inq tells other lenders you were actually attempting to increase your credit. I differentaites between asking for more and just having a current lender or prospective lender seeing what you look like. It also leaves a record if you were denied.

So I believe there are some reasons why it is done.

I didn't know they were in the business of alerting other creditors that you have been asking for CLI.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:34:18 GMT

@Itsmeagain wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
I believe there is logic to their madness.
Asking for a CLI is requesting / seeking additional credit. Making it a hard INQ is simply making sure that the scoring system takes this into consideration.

06, I have been trying all day to come up with a legitimate argument for your logic but can't. It makes perfect sense but it just doesn't seem right. We take the hit for the original application and new account; why can't they just update their information by getting a soft? It STILL seems punitive to me.

I agree with you. I would be the last one to defend a creditor in today's climate and considering that they have traditionally issued CLIs on data obtained from a soft pull, I can only see that now requiring a hard pull does seem abusive.

Still, their logic is going to be that "We were wrong to only use softs before. A hard is indicitive of seeking new or increased credit and should appear as such on a credit report." It's only a short step, IMO, from them doing a hard for a CLI not requested by a cardholder.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:46:11 GMT

@Itsmeagain wrote:
I have recently (since Feb. 22), requested CLI's from the following:
Discover
Chase
Kroger 1-2-3
BoA
Best Buy (both store and RZMC)
Alliant

The only one who said it would not be a hard pull was BoA (2,500 CLI). I declined the others to avoid the hard pull.

It appears that the rules have changed boyz and girlz. Get ready for some amazing NEW tricks to be introduced that will further limit the attraction to credit cards, such as lower (or NO), rewards, higher interest rates, fewer CLI's.

Any others with similar experiences? What are your feelings about these new, tightened rules? Are the "Good Times" over . . . . When one could MAKE money using credit?

DH has Alliant. My understanding is that their CLI's have been hard pulls since before the new CC laws.

Luckily, in his case, Alliant was pretty generous with the initial CL, so we haven't requested additional CLI's because of the hard pull policy. It'll be interesting to see if they're giving out any CLI's at all. We'll be watching........

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Itsmeagain — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:15:55 GMT

This has been an interesting discussion and thanks to each one for their input!!!

From reading this thread and others, it appears that hard pulls for CLI's are going to be the "norm" for the immediate future so we had better just find a way to deal with it . . . . . . . Toto, I don't believe we're in Kansas anymore.

Too bad that the FICO scoring models aren't designed to weigh the inquiry with less emphasis placed on CLI requests vs. new credit applications. That would seem to be the only fair solution for all parties. After all, a new application for a credit product places a much heavier risk on the creditor than a CLI on an account that is established.

The only considerations for the CLI should be:

Has the customer demonstrated that they can manage the current limit along with their other obligations?
Does the customer have ample funds available to manage a larger credit line?

The first question can be determined with a soft pull and does not pollute the customer's FICO score. The second question can be answered by a simple income verification requirement (pay stubs, 1099's, bank statements, etc.).

As far as notifying other creditors that you have requested additional credit; that is just hogwash. If your credit lines are increasing, it will be apparent on your CR (soft pull). Are we to believe that technology doesn't exist and creditors do not compare one report against the last one they pulled? Of course they do. THAT should be where they get notification that we are getting higher limits, not by polluting our FICO score with useless hard inquiries.

And where in the new credit card law does it state that a CLI request requires a hard pull? Several posters have mentioned that the CSR is referring to the new credit card law as their reason for requiring a hard pull?

(Note to beamMeup) Yes, Alliant has always required a hard pull for ANY credit product, even new membership.

Re: Are most CCC's requiring a hard pull for a CLI now?

Anonymous — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 13:11:01 GMT

@Itsmeagain wrote:
This has been an interesting discussion and thanks to each one for their input!!!

From reading this thread and others, it appears that hard pulls for CLI's are going to be the "norm" for the immediate future so we had better just find a way to deal with it . . . . . . . Toto, I don't believe we're in Kansas anymore.

Too bad that the FICO scoring models aren't designed to weigh the inquiry with less emphasis placed on CLI requests vs. new credit applications. That would seem to be the only fair solution for all parties. After all, a new application for a credit product places a much heavier risk on the creditor than a CLI on an account that is established.

The only considerations for the CLI should be:

Has the customer demonstrated that they can manage the current limit along with their other obligations?
Does the customer have ample funds available to manage a larger credit line?
The first question can be determined with a soft pull and does not pollute the customer's FICO score. The second question can be answered by a simple income verification requirement (pay stubs, 1099's, bank statements, etc.).

As far as notifying other creditors that you have requested additional credit; that is just hogwash. If your credit lines are increasing, it will be apparent on your CR (soft pull). Are we to believe that technology doesn't exist and creditors do not compare one report against the last one they pulled? Of course they do. THAT should be where they get notification that we are getting higher limits, not by polluting our FICO score with useless hard inquiries.

And where in the new credit card law does it state that a CLI request requires a hard pull? Several posters have mentioned that the CSR is referring to the new credit card law as their reason for requiring a hard pull?

(Note to beamMeup) Yes, Alliant has always required a hard pull for ANY credit product, even new membership.

1. Can we say that even opening a new account shouldn't result in an INQ because one's other creditors can see the new account when it reports and that is when they should get notification?

2. I'd also like to see where any new legislation requires a hard pull for a CLI.